FSTDT Forums
Community => Politics and Government => Topic started by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on January 18, 2012, 10:49:07 pm
-
Yes, you read that right, folks. That's what the hosts of The John & Ken Show had to say when discussing the 69th Golden Globes Awards, right after making the conspiratorial claim that the
Jews gays run Hollywood and the fashion industry:
SHANNON FARREN: I don't watch [awards shows] because every time I do, I just want to feed them a burger, every actress I see. I just want to feed them the look so emaciated.
JOHN KOBYLT: I know they look so--that's not attractive.
KEN CHIAMPOU: But that's the game though. They have to be more emaciated than the other famous actress.
SHANNON FARREN: Yeah, and this is the time of year.
JOHN KOBYLT: That's right. And it's because--
KEN CHIAMPOU: They get jealous and see photos of someone thinner than them.
JOHN KOBYLT: Gay guys control the fashion industry and the casting industry and the whole Hollywood look. And gays like bodies that remind them of a 14 year old-boy. Guys like curves. Guys like curves. Absolutely, positively. It's biological, because a woman with curves looks like she can bear your children successfully and that's biologically what a man is looking for. So sexually a guy is much more turned on by a woman with curves than these 14 year old-boy stick figures. And that's how I know for sure, I don't need to do any research or any proof that it's gay guys who control the entire casting industry.
Unsurprisingly, the duo have a history (http://equalitymatters.org/blog/201201170010) of bigoted comments.
-
So if gays like people with 14-year old stick boy figures how do you explain all those congressmen and big name media figures who are happily married, have 2.5 kids, and are caught fucking a 14 year old boy?
Ironbite-cause those guys are obviously not gay.
-
Never heard of Bears, have they?
-
I don't need to do any research or any proof that it's gay guys who control the entire casting industry.
Er, yes actually. Yes you do. You know what else you need? The ability to form grammatically correct sentences.
-
Never heard of Bears, have they?
Or gym bunnies.
-
Remember when you're gay, all you want to fuck are kids. That's it. Not adults your age or anything, kids. As young as 5 years old. Because a hole is a hole to a gay.
Ironbite-makes me sick.
-
*looks left at Bowser*
*looks at all the guys he crushes on who are big and very masculine and sometimes middle-aged*
*Looks at bara*
These people are stupid.
-
And that's how I know for sure, I don't need to do any research or any proof that it's gay guys who control the entire casting industry.
Screw the rules evidence; I have money bigotry!
-
Linked for NSFW: http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/bara_example_1303.png (http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/bara_example_1303.png)
Your argument is invalid.
-
Referral denied.
-
Linked for NSFW: http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/bara_example_1303.png (http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/bara_example_1303.png)
Your argument is invalid.
Referrer fail. It does work if you copy the link and flat out paste it into the address bar, though.
-
Someone send them a few gigs of gay porn with big muscular guys.
-
So... DON'T 14 year old boys appeal to many homosexuals?
-
Never heard of Bears, have they?
I knew one guy who liked bald guys. That was his thing. Bald guys who were normally much older than him.
But, you know, I'm sure he secretly wanted to fuck 14 year old boys. /sarcasm
-
So... DON'T 14 year old boys appeal to many homosexuals?
I don't know what you're trying to say here but it seems like one of those comments that might end with everyone moving over to flame & burn at your expense.
On topic, this is one of those "oogity boogity boogity THE GAYS" comments. Anyhow, from what I understand, guys (gay or straight) aren't the focus of this "race to the bottom" of thinness in Hollywood and the real world. It's generally, again from what I understand I'm a cisgender male so I may be wrong, focused on looking good to other women. And as far as the fashion industry goes...smaller breasted thin girls are a lot more "one-size-fits-most" than curvy gals.
-
So... DON'T 14 year old boys appeal to many homosexuals?
I don't know what you're trying to say here but it seems like one of those comments that might end with everyone moving over to flame & burn at your expense.
I don't think I can be any clearer...
-
So... DON'T 14 year old boys appeal to many homosexuals?
I don't know what you're trying to say here but it seems like one of those comments that might end with everyone moving over to flame & burn at your expense.
I don't think I can be any clearer...
Yes, obviously he forgot to put the /sarcasm tag at the end of his post.
Right? Please let that be right.
-
So... DON'T 14 year old boys appeal to many homosexuals?
I don't know what you're trying to say here but it seems like one of those comments that might end with everyone moving over to flame & burn at your expense.
I don't think I can be any clearer...
Yes, obviously he forgot to put the /sarcasm tag at the end of his post.
Right? Please let that be right.
...No... really not sure what is such a revelation about the physique of 14 year old boys appealing to some homosexuals. Is this news?
-
So... DON'T 14 year old boys appeal to many homosexuals?
I don't know what you're trying to say here but it seems like one of those comments that might end with everyone moving over to flame & burn at your expense.
I don't think I can be any clearer...
Yes, obviously he forgot to put the /sarcasm tag at the end of his post.
Right? Please let that be right.
...No... really not sure what is such a revelation about the physique of 14 year old boys appealing to some homosexuals. Is this news?
You seem to be confusing Ephebophilia with Homosexuality again. Let me help you.
Ephebophilia is the sexual preference of adults for mid-to-late adolescents, generally ages 15 to 19. (Wikipedia)
Homosexuality is romantic or sexual attraction or behavior between members of the same sex or gender. As a sexual orientation, homosexuality refers to "an enduring pattern of or disposition to experience sexual, affectional, or romantic attractions" primarily or exclusively to people of the same sex; "it also refers to an individual's sense of personal and social identity based on those attractions, behaviors expressing them, and membership in a community of others who share them." (Wikipedia)
While I'm sure the two can overlap on rare occasion (studies point to pedophilia and ephebophilia actually being more prominent in heterosexual males than homosexual ones) it does not mean that all homosexuals should be automatically associated with ephebophiles.
You also did not take into account lesbians when you made your blanket statement. What would an adult woman who is attracted to other adult women want with a 14 year old boy?
Edit to credit.
-
So... DON'T 14 year old boys appeal to many homosexuals?
I don't know what you're trying to say here but it seems like one of those comments that might end with everyone moving over to flame & burn at your expense.
I don't think I can be any clearer...
Yes, obviously he forgot to put the /sarcasm tag at the end of his post.
Right? Please let that be right.
...No... really not sure what is such a revelation about the physique of 14 year old boys appealing to some homosexuals. Is this news?
You seem to be confusing Ephebophilia with Homosexuality again. Let me help you.
Ephebophilia is the sexual preference of adults for mid-to-late adolescents, generally ages 15 to 19. (Wikipedia)
Homosexuality is romantic or sexual attraction or behavior between members of the same sex or gender. As a sexual orientation, homosexuality refers to "an enduring pattern of or disposition to experience sexual, affectional, or romantic attractions" primarily or exclusively to people of the same sex; "it also refers to an individual's sense of personal and social identity based on those attractions, behaviors expressing them, and membership in a community of others who share them." (Wikipedia)
While I'm sure the two can overlap on rare occasion (studies point to pedophilia and ephebophilia actually being more prominent in heterosexual males than homosexual ones) it does not mean that all homosexuals should be automatically associated with ephebophiles.
You also did not take into account lesbians when you made your blanket statement. What would an adult woman who is attracted to other adult women want with a 14 year old boy?
Edit to credit.
Don't fuck me around with semantics. There are homosexuals who appreciate the body form of young men, same as there are hetero sexuals attracted to yoiung women. And yes, I acknowledged SOME right from the start.
Or do you now want to argue that every heterosexual male who has ever looked twice at a girl under 18 isn't actual a heterosexual, but an ephebophile?
Political correctness be damned. And what the hell is this "again" crap?
-
If I mistook you for someone else from the old board I shall apologize. I know there was at least one poster over there who liked to play devil's advocate and who also seemed to like equating consenting adults with ephebophiles.
And I'm not arguing semantics. The topic of this discussion was supposed to be about someone who accused the Hollywood fashion industry of being run by gay men. And that because it was run by gay men they wanted everyone to look like 14 year old boys. They went on to equate all gay men with liking 14 year old boys.
If I misunderstood you, again, I shall apologize. But you seemed to have made a blanket statement that homosexuals enjoy the physical form of 14 year old boys. The same argument made ad hoc by fundies everywhere. You went on to defend this statement even when given an out. You did not say "Well, don't a few of them enjoy it?". You said So... DON'T 14 year old boys appeal to many homosexuals?
(emphasis mine).
When it was pointed out to you that homosexual doesn't automatically equal ephebophile you accused me of arguing semantics.
Now, did I get that wrong?
-
If I mistook you for someone else from the old board I shall apologize. I know there was at least one poster over there who liked to play devil's advocate and who also seemed to like equating consenting adults with ephebophiles.
And I'm not arguing semantics. The topic of this discussion was supposed to be about someone who accused the Hollywood fashion industry of being run by gay men. And that because it was run by gay men they wanted everyone to look like 14 year old boys. They went on to equate all gay men with liking 14 year old boys.
If I misunderstood you, again, I shall apologize. But you seemed to have made a blanket statement that homosexuals enjoy the physical form of 14 year old boys. The same argument made ad hoc by fundies everywhere. You went on to defend this statement even when given an out. You did not say "Well, don't a few of them enjoy it?". You said So... DON'T 14 year old boys appeal to many homosexuals?
(emphasis mine).
When it was pointed out to you that homosexual doesn't automatically equal ephebophile you accused me of arguing semantics.
Now, did I get that wrong?
I accept your apology most cheerfully.
I'm not saying anything stupid like ALL gay men like 14 year old boys EXCLUSIVELY. However... the idea that a large percentage of homosexual men like a physique reminiscent of a 14 year old boy (be it on a 14 year old boy or a 19 year old female model) is a pretty well accepted social phenomenon (annecdotal, I know, but several of my homosexual aquaintances have made comments to that effect. ) I'm not saying thats ALL they're attracted to, either. But it is there.
Just like a 35 year old man might be in a perfectly happy heterosexual relationship with another 35 year old, yet have his head well and truly turned by a fit 16year old girl.
-
I'm not saying anything stupid like ALL gay men like 14 year old boys EXCLUSIVELY. However... the idea that a large percentage of homosexual men like a physique reminiscent of a 14 year old boy (be it on a 14 year old boy or a 19 year old female model) is a pretty well accepted social phenomenon (annecdotal, I know, but several of my homosexual aquaintances have made comments to that effect. ) I'm not saying thats ALL they're attracted to, either. But it is there.
I...
Do you not honestly see what's wrong with the above statement? I'll highlight it for you. Once again you are accusing a large portion of a community of finding underage individuals physically attractive. The same argument of opponents who wish to deny that community the same rights as the rest of society. Using anecdotal evidence to boot.
Let's run with your logic for a moment. I know a few fangirls who like to write rape fics on several of the communities I'm on. These same girls also write slash fics. Anecdotally I could make the statement that "Well, don't a large percentage of people who write slash want to see men get raped by other men? Anecdotal, I know, but several of my slash writing acquaintances have made comments to that effect.". I would be justifiably hit with a modhammer at that point in time for making a derogatory blanket statement that only incites the ire of my fellow posters.
-
Political correctness be damned.
However... the idea that a large percentage of homosexual men like a physique reminiscent of a 14 year old boy (be it on a 14 year old boy or a 19 year old female model) is a pretty well accepted social phenomenon (annecdotal, I know, but several of my homosexual aquaintances have made comments to that effect. )
Apparently getting meaningful data is also political correctness. Doesn't mean you're wrong, but use some actual data instead of relying upon your biases.
This goes for you too, rosenewock, you also have not offered anything substantial for your position.
-
Political correctness be damned.
However... the idea that a large percentage of homosexual men like a physique reminiscent of a 14 year old boy (be it on a 14 year old boy or a 19 year old female model) is a pretty well accepted social phenomenon (annecdotal, I know, but several of my homosexual aquaintances have made comments to that effect. )
Apparently getting meaningful data is also political correctness. Doesn't mean you're wrong, but use some actual data instead of relying upon your biases.
This goes for you too, rosenewock, you also have not offered anything substantial for your position.
May I politely ask what is wrong with my statements and how they are not substantial? I will be happy to clarify my position in a better manner if you would kindly show me the flaws.
-
Political correctness be damned.
However... the idea that a large percentage of homosexual men like a physique reminiscent of a 14 year old boy (be it on a 14 year old boy or a 19 year old female model) is a pretty well accepted social phenomenon (annecdotal, I know, but several of my homosexual aquaintances have made comments to that effect. )
Apparently getting meaningful data is also political correctness. Doesn't mean you're wrong, but use some actual data instead of relying upon your biases.
This goes for you too, rosenewock, you also have not offered anything substantial for your position.
May I politely ask what is wrong with my statements and how they are not substantial? I will be happy to clarify my position in a better manner if you would kindly show me the flaws.
You didn't provide any evidence to back up your statements, you just said that's the way it was. The closest you did to that was by citing definitions which were not mutually exclusive.
-
Yes, you read that right, folks. That's what the hosts of The John & Ken Show had to say when discussing the 69th Golden Globes Awards, right after making the conspiratorial claim that the Jews gays run Hollywood and the fashion industry:
SHANNON FARREN: I don't watch [awards shows] because every time I do, I just want to feed them a burger, every actress I see. I just want to feed them the look so emaciated.
JOHN KOBYLT: I know they look so--that's not attractive.
KEN CHIAMPOU: But that's the game though. They have to be more emaciated than the other famous actress.
SHANNON FARREN: Yeah, and this is the time of year.
JOHN KOBYLT: That's right. And it's because--
KEN CHIAMPOU: They get jealous and see photos of someone thinner than them.
JOHN KOBYLT: Gay guys control the fashion industry and the casting industry and the whole Hollywood look. And gays like bodies that remind them of a 14 year old-boy. Guys like curves. Guys like curves. Absolutely, positively. It's biological, because a woman with curves looks like she can bear your children successfully and that's biologically what a man is looking for. So sexually a guy is much more turned on by a woman with curves than these 14 year old-boy stick figures. And that's how I know for sure, I don't need to do any research or any proof that it's gay guys who control the entire casting industry.
Unsurprisingly, the duo have a history (http://equalitymatters.org/blog/201201170010) of bigoted comments.
I have a different theory.
Yes there are a lot of gays in fashion.
But to be successful people have to buy their clothes/
Thier market is primarily straight women and it's to straight women that these designers try to appeal.
Straight women who buy these clothes want to appear sexy to straight men.
So it's not that gay guys want a 14 year old. It's that some designers who happen to be gay think straight guys want a 14 year old.
An idea that is not without some basis.
BTW, gays like curves too. we call them muscles. Or in the case of bears, a belly. (really gays and humans in general like so many different things it's stupid to say one group "likes' any particular thing or another. I've known straight guys who like their girls tom boyish)
-
And that's how I know for sure, I don't need to do any research or any proof that it's gay guys who control the entire casting industry.
Screw the rules evidence; I have money bigotry!
Nice ;D
-
So... DON'T 14 year old boys appeal to many homosexuals?
(http://rr-bb.com/images/smilies/twitch.gif)(http://rr-bb.com/images/smilies/twitch.gif)(http://rr-bb.com/images/smilies/twitch.gif)(http://rr-bb.com/images/smilies/twitch.gif)
-
Ah, gotcha. Thank you kindly, Vene.
Alright, let's try again. A photo essay from the Time Magazine website depicting behind the scenes at the New York Fashion Week. http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,2016750,00.html (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,2016750,00.html)
The Maestro
Andrew Weir (second from right), owner of ACW Worldwide, addresses his team before a full day of casting at the Hudson Hotel. The team members will sort through more than 300 models to meet the requirements set by their Fashion Week clients, including Adidas' Y-3 and Zac Posen's Z Spoke.
(from photo caption 2)
The It Factor
Even in a room filled with beautiful women, certain models stand out. In industry vernacular, these women have the It factor, an undeniable presence that all successful models possess. Weir says that Russia's Vika Falileeva, above, has a "rare combination of all things good  all things that make a model a model. Strength, height, symmetry, confidence, an amazing walk, an amazing presence, beautiful skin, beautiful hair, perfectly proportioned  an amazing girl."
(from photo caption 9)
So the models, at least for the New York Fashion Week, were chosen going off of the needs of the client and an "it" factor. Clientele are trying to appeal to their base, in this case Hollywood starlets. And this http://blogs.webmd.com/pamela-peeke-md/2010/01/just-what-is-an-average-womans-size-anymore.html (http://blogs.webmd.com/pamela-peeke-md/2010/01/just-what-is-an-average-womans-size-anymore.html) WebMD article from 2010 claims The average starlet is wearing a size 2 or 4 which is the sample size designers are making presently.
.
Now to address the issue of the assertion that many homosexual men are attracted to 14 year old boys. I found this article from UC Davis to be most helpful. http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html (http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html)
For the present discussion, the important point is that many child molesters cannot be meaningfully described as homosexuals, heterosexuals, or bisexuals (in the usual sense of those terms) because they are not really capable of a relationship with an adult man or woman. Instead of gender, their sexual attractions are based primarily on age. These individuals – who are often characterized as fixated – are attracted to children, not to men or women.
Other researchers have taken different approaches, but have similarly failed to find a connection between homosexuality and child molestation. Dr. Carole Jenny and her colleagues reviewed 352 medical charts, representing all of the sexually abused children seen in the emergency room or child abuse clinic of a Denver children's hospital during a one-year period (from July 1, 1991 to June 30, 1992). The molester was a gay or lesbian adult in fewer than 1% in which an adult molester could be identified – only 2 of the 269 cases (Jenny et al., 1994).
In yet another approach to studying adult sexual attraction to children, some Canadian researchers observed how homosexual and heterosexual adult men responded to slides of males and females of various ages (child, pubescent, and mature adult). ... The researchers found that homosexual males responded no more to male children than heterosexual males responded to female children (Freund et al., 1989).
Science cannot prove a negative. Thus, these studies do not prove that homosexual or bisexual males are no more likely than heterosexual males to molest children. However, each of them failed to prove the alternative hypothesis that homosexual males are more likely than heterosexual men to molest children or to be sexually attracted to children or adolescents.
Now, would anyone like to make the claim that a large percentage of heterosexual men are attracted to 14 year old girls?
-
So how do they explain the near-universal Joan Crawford fixation?
-
Well, obviously sandman it's because she's a diva and diva transcends all.
(http://www.mptvimages.com/ImageFolio42_files/gallery/Licensed/Non-Restricted/Legends/Archive_G_thru_I/George_Hurrell/0728_2172.jpg)
Doesn't look like a 14 year old boy to me, but what do I know?
-
Well, obviously sandman it's because she's a diva and diva transcends all.
(http://www.mptvimages.com/ImageFolio42_files/gallery/Licensed/Non-Restricted/Legends/Archive_G_thru_I/George_Hurrell/0728_2172.jpg)
Doesn't look like a 14 year old boy to me, but what do I know?
Obviously you're not looking close enough. She looks like a 14-year-old boy who's wearing his sister's bra stuffed with socks!
</insane troll logic>
-
And is wearing silicone hip pads. Mustn't forget that.
/more insane troll logic.
-
I'm sorry, but that....that is 120% woman right there. Those thighs could crack coconuts.
-
I happen to know of a few gay fashion designer and none of their clothes are made so that you look like a 14 year old boy.
-
lighthorseman be trolling.
Anyway, the pair the OP quoted appear to be such misguided conspiracy theorists that it's more cute to me than it is offensive. Believe me, normally homophobia is a huge peeve of mine, but the idea they're stating is such tin-foil-hattery I'm surprised they saw fit to say that near someone who could record what they said, lest the gays use their psychic mind-control powers to turn them both gay... and the thought of their paranoia just makes me laugh.
-
However... the idea that a large percentage of homosexual men like a physique reminiscent of a 14 year old boy (be it on a 14 year old boy or a 19 year old female model) is a pretty well accepted social phenomenon (annecdotal, I know, but several of my homosexual aquaintances have made comments to that effect. )
How is anecdotal equal to "well accepted social phenomenon"? If it were the case, I can argue many heterosexual women also like 14 year old male bodies based on anecdotal ground, since I can also claim that many of my heterosexual friends have made comments to that effect.
-
Well I know one thing for sure: there is a great deal of concern in this community about the casting industry. Oh. Wait ...
-
Still not seeing the problem... Yes, l'm saying l think many homosexuals find a boyosh physique attractive, are yo saying they don't? In an attempt to clarify, l'm not saying there's anything WRONG with finding 14 year olds attractive, but rather the knee jerk insistance that people don't because of fears it might feed a seperaye unjust stereotype. I'd go out on a limb to say thay most people, of all sexual orientatioms, have at some time found underage people sexually attractive. And that's ok.
Want proof? Generally, do fashion models tend to look more like teenagers or like older people?
-
The fashion models that I'm familiar with don't look like teens. ???
(And that's overall. Most of the models for brands and designers that I'm familiar with clearly depict adult men and women.)
-
How is it homophobia to acknowledge that homosexuals tend to be attracted to attractive young people ?
Still really not seeing the problem here.
Here's an idea, think l'm being unreasonable, try turning the tables... Say that many heterosexuals tend to be attracted to the body type of 14 year old girls. Watch me say "yeah, and?"
-
The fashion models that I'm familiar with don't look like teens. ???
(And that's overall. Most of the models for brands and designers that I'm familiar with clearly depict adult men and women.)
Really? I'm not really into fashion much, but thats not my impression from checkout magazine covers.
-
How is it homophobia to acknowledge that homosexuals tend to be attracted to attractive young people ?
Still really not seeing the problem here.
Because it comes off as an insinuation that it's inherently a homosexual thing.
Here's an idea, think l'm being unreasonable, try turning the tables... Say that many heterosexuals tend to be attracted to the body type of 14 year old girls. Watch me say "yeah, and?"
If you noticed, I already addressed that (except I used heterosexual women). Saying that homosexual men have a tendency towards that type of body and that it constitutes a large percentage of the population is just as erroneous as saying that heterosexual women have a tendency towards that type of body and that it constitutes a large percentage of their population. You can't make those conclusion.
The fashion models that I'm familiar with don't look like teens. ???
(And that's overall. Most of the models for brands and designers that I'm familiar with clearly depict adult men and women.)
Really? I'm not really into fashion much, but thats not my impression from checkout magazine covers.
Fashion is much much more variable than stuff at the checkout isle.
-
How is it homophobia to acknowledge that homosexuals tend to be attracted to attractive young people ?
Still really not seeing the problem here.
Because it comes off as an insinuation that it's inherently a homosexual.
Especially since that time he dropped the “someâ€Â/“many†qualifier.
-
I'd go out on a limb to say thay most people, of all sexual orientatioms, have at some time found underage people sexually attractive.
No. I have never found any underage person attractive.
And I'm a teen.
-
Speaking strictly personally, I'd never want the body of a 14-year-old boy. Finish growing that lovely cock down there and then we'll talk. As for the appearance of a younger guy, in someone who is legal age, I'd have less of a problem with it, but I prefer my men to look like they're around my age (21 as of yesterday). I don't speak for all gays naturally, but that's my $0.02 on it.
-
I'd go out on a limb to say thay most people, of all sexual orientatioms, have at some time found underage people sexually attractive.
No. I have never found any underage person attractive.
And I'm a teen.
so you haven't looked at a 5 year old and thought "Man I'd like to break a piece off of that"?
Ironbite-for shame.
-
Want proof? Generally, do fashion models tend to look more like teenagers or like older people?
Do you have any examples of fashion models that look like 14-year-olds?
-
Just for a quick glance, I Google Image Searched "fashion models" and decided to try to find one that looks like a 14 y/o... none of them look under 18, but about half of them look malnourished. Yikes.
-
Any insinuation is purely in your own mind. People tend to be attracted to young people, gay or syrait. Thats not in any way a condemnation or suggestive of a phobia. I would suggest any one who perceives this statement of fact disturbing needs some introspection as to why.
IMHO just as over the top homopjobia is indicative of one being secretly afraid he may be gay, seeing homophobia behind perfectly innocent and reasonable statements suggests one is secretly afraid of being homophobic. Same deal with racism and sexism [/2c]
-
And people who tend to say "stop being politically correct" at any criticism is just covering up their bigotry, IMHO.
The fact is LHM, you failed to show how your anecdotes equals socially wide phenomenons.
-
IMHO just as over the top homopjobia is indicative of one being secretly afraid he may be gay, seeing homophobia behind perfectly innocent and reasonable statements suggests one is secretly afraid of being homophobic. Same deal with racism and sexism [/2c]
I don't see "most gay dudes want to commit statutory rape " as an innocent statement. And saying that most gay men are physically attracted to people below even the age of consent is saying that.
-
And people who tend to say "stop being politically correct" at any criticism is just covering up their bigotry, IMHO.
The fact is LHM, you failed to show how your anecdotes equals socially wide phenomenons.
l'm typing from my phone, so you'll forgive me if l leave doing a websearch for links until l have PC access later, but l recal reading extracts from more than one thesis some time ago relating to precisely this phenomenon.
Next, l'm not hiding any bigotry here, l freely admit to my bigotries.
Finally, allow me to reiterate, l really don't see how what l'm saying could be considered homophobic, because its not a bad thing. So, lots of homosexual men like bodies like those of a 14 year old boy, so what? Good for them! Find who ever you like attractive!
Are you seriously saying you DON'T think there are lots of homosexuals who like a form reminiscent of young men? Direct question.
-
IMHO just as over the top homopjobia is indicative of one being secretly afraid he may be gay, seeing homophobia behind perfectly innocent and reasonable statements suggests one is secretly afraid of being homophobic. Same deal with racism and sexism [/2c]
I don't see "most gay dudes want to commit statutory rape " as an innocent statement. And saying that most gay men are physically attracted to people below even the age of consent is saying that.
Bull. You may have infered it, but l certainly never said nor implied it. I also said many heterosexuals are attracted to under age people, but l sure as shit aren't saying they are prone to statutory rape.
-
I'd go out on a limb to say thay most people, of all sexual orientatioms, have at some time found underage people sexually attractive.
No. I have never found any underage person attractive.
And I'm a teen.
sorry, missed this earlier... But unless you have spent your adolescence in a sealed room, or are completely asexual in orientation, l'm calling bullshit.
-
And people who tend to say "stop being politically correct" at any criticism is just covering up their bigotry, IMHO.
The fact is LHM, you failed to show how your anecdotes equals socially wide phenomenons.
l'm typing from my phone, so you'll forgive me if l leave doing a websearch for links until l have PC access later, but l recal reading extracts from more than one thesis some time ago relating to precisely this phenomenon.
Next, l'm not hiding any bigotry here, l freely admit to my bigotries.
Finally, allow me to reiterate, l really don't see how what l'm saying could be considered homophobic, because its not a bad thing. So, lots of homosexual men like bodies like those of a 14 year old boy, so what? Good for them! Find who ever you like attractive!
Are you seriously saying you DON'T think there are lots of homosexuals who like a form reminiscent of young men? Direct question.
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltmlcy7zou1qcgdis.gif)
I don't think so
NOW will you address MY point instead of evading? You have not shown how your anecdote equates to there being a socially wide phenomena of homosexual men liking 14 year old bodies. I've already said that making such a conclusion is erroneous.
Also, intent isn't magic but I'm not getting into that in this thread.
-
If, you genuinely don't think so, then l think you are very naiive, at least.
Homosexual popular culture itself should be enough to convince you that young men are seen as desirable to at least a sizeable minority. Rack MacFarlane didn't become a stereotype in a vacuum.
I'm not dodging anything, l already said l'll do a web search for you when l have PC access, you'll just have to wait a few hours.
-
This was back on page 2 and seems to have gotten buried. That is the excuse I'll allow for why the information I provided was ignored.
Now to address the issue of the assertion that many homosexual men are attracted to 14 year old boys. I found this article from UC Davis to be most helpful. http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html (http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html)
For the present discussion, the important point is that many child molesters cannot be meaningfully described as homosexuals, heterosexuals, or bisexuals (in the usual sense of those terms) because they are not really capable of a relationship with an adult man or woman. Instead of gender, their sexual attractions are based primarily on age. These individuals – who are often characterized as fixated – are attracted to children, not to men or women.
In yet another approach to studying adult sexual attraction to children, some Canadian researchers observed how homosexual and heterosexual adult men responded to slides of males and females of various ages (child, pubescent, and mature adult). ... The researchers found that homosexual males responded no more to male children than heterosexual males responded to female children (Freund et al., 1989).
Science cannot prove a negative. Thus, these studies do not prove that homosexual or bisexual males are no more likely than heterosexual males to molest children. However, each of them failed to prove the alternative hypothesis that homosexual males are more likely than heterosexual men to molest children or to be sexually attracted to children or adolescents.
I left the three most pertinent parts in place. If you'd like to address the entire post it is the last one on page 2 of this thread.
Adults who find underage individuals attractive often have no discernible adult sexual orientation. A man who can look at a 14 year old boy and think "Hell yeah, I'd tap that" isn't a homosexual, he's an ephebophile.
Normal adults in our society don't look at barely pubescent children like that. If they do then they have a problem. You have yet to supply one valid argument. You use anecdotal evidence that can easily be over-ridden by other anecdotal evidence.
-
If, you genuinely don't think so, then l think you are very naiive, at least.
Homosexual popular culture itself should be enough to convince you that young men are seen as desirable to at least a sizeable minority. Rack MacFarlane didn't become a stereotype in a vacuum.
I'm not dodging anything, l already said l'll do a web search for you when l have PC access, you'll just have to wait a few hours.
Have you actually been on Rentboy? They don't look like 14 years old. Unless you're confusing 14 year old with effeminate. Even most of them don't look like that.
EDIT: You changed your example. I googled him. He still doesn't look like a 14 year old. He looks camp. Camp =/= pubescent.
-
Yeah but ee're talking about liming the PHYSIQUE of 14 year olds, not ACTUAL 14 year olds.
-
So... DON'T 14 year old boys appeal to many homosexuals?
But that's not what you said. You did not say Physique of 14 year old boys. You said 14 year old boys.
-
Yeah but ee're talking about liming the PHYSIQUE of 14 year olds, not ACTUAL 14 year olds.
The physique STILL doesn't look 14 years old. Not any that I've seen.
EDIT: Perhaps you are referring to twink. Twink isn't an emulation of pubescent, so it invalidates the idea that it's an attraction to a "14 year old" physique. In some culture, the Twink look is plenty adult.
-
Any insinuation is purely in your own mind. People tend to be attracted to young people, gay or syrait. Thats not in any way a condemnation or suggestive of a phobia. I would suggest any one who perceives this statement of fact disturbing needs some introspection as to why.
There is a difference between a twenty-year-old and a fourteen-year-old. There is a difference between an eighteen-year-old and a fourteen-year-old. Hell, there is a difference between a sixteen-year-old and a fourteen-year-old.
"Young" =/= "pubescent" The "young people" you are referring to are generally older than fourteen, which is below the age of consent in every US state. You want to bring up anecdotes, let's talk about how, developmentally, I went from knowing next to nothing about sex as a fourteen-year-old to getting dangerously close to losing my virginity as a sixteen-year-old.
You want to discuss whether or not finding ephebephilia disturbing is justified, that's a different discussion. What you are saying is that everyone is an ephebephile, which is most certainly not the case.
-
I'll have to exalt you for that. Even I was getting confused. :-[
Yeah, young doesn't mean "14 years old". I guess that's what I was trying to get at but couldn't.
-
Twinks are "girly". They do NOT look pre-pubescent.
-
LHM, what you originally said was this:
So... DON'T 14 year old boys appeal to many homosexuals?
You said that 14-year-old boys appeal to homosexuals. Not boy-like physiques. Boys.
Then you went on to say:
I'd go out on a limb to say thay most people, of all sexual orientatioms, have at some time found underage people sexually attractive.
So far you've stated that 1) Most gay people find 14-year old boys attractive and 2) Most people regardless of sexual orientation have found underage people attractive. Except people who are, you know, actually gay/bi/lesbian/etc. have called you out on your anecdotal bullshit. The plural form of "anecdote" is not "evidence." And don't be pulling this I-didn't-mean-what-I-said crap.
-
Incidentally, I find the fact he has anecdotal evidence supporting his claim to be more than a little creepy.
-
I stand by everything l've said.
Further, l am quite befuddled as to the reaction... I really don't see what l've said that isn't a)common sense, or b)generally accepted. What l have said that people seem to take such offence to is quite beyond me. I haven't said or implied that many homosexuals want to have sex with 14 year olds, or that they are EXCLUSIVELY attracted to 14 year olds, just that there are many who are attracted to 14 year olds, just as there are many heterosexuals attracted to 14 year olds. Why so many of you seem desperate to turn this into a flame war is quite beyond me. So some people find some 14 year olds attractive. So what? I didn't really think this was news.
-
Incidentally, I find the fact he has anecdotal evidence supporting his claim to be more than a little creepy.
so you've never talked to your friends about what they find attractive? I find THAT creepy.
-
I really haven't run into that many gay guys who expressed attraction towards 14-year-olds.
-
I stand by everything l've said.
Further, l am quite befuddled as to the reaction... I really don't see what l've said that isn't a)common sense, or b)generally accepted. What l have said that people seem to take such offence to is quite beyond me. I haven't said or implied that many homosexuals want to have sex with 14 year olds, or that they are EXCLUSIVELY attracted to 14 year olds, just that there are many who are attracted to 14 year olds, just as there are many heterosexuals attracted to 14 year olds. Why so many of you seem desperate to turn this into a flame war is quite beyond me. So some people find some 14 year olds attractive. So what? I didn't really think this was news.
GOAL POST SHIFTED...SUCCESS!
Ironbite-congrats LHM...you've successfully shifted the goalposts....3 feet forward.
-
I stand by everything l've said.
Further, l am quite befuddled as to the reaction... I really don't see what l've said that isn't a)common sense, or b)generally accepted. What l have said that people seem to take such offence to is quite beyond me. I haven't said or implied that many homosexuals want to have sex with 14 year olds, or that they are EXCLUSIVELY attracted to 14 year olds, just that there are many who are attracted to 14 year olds, just as there are many heterosexuals attracted to 14 year olds. Why so many of you seem desperate to turn this into a flame war is quite beyond me. So some people find some 14 year olds attractive. So what? I didn't really think this was news.
You didn't say "some," you said "many", and you didn't say "people," you said "homosexuals."
So... DON'T 14 year old boys appeal to many homosexuals?
No. No, they don't.
Incidentally, I find the fact he has anecdotal evidence supporting his claim to be more than a little creepy.
so you've never talked to your friends about what they find attractive? I find THAT creepy.
Don't be so transparently obtuse. It's the attraction that's creepy, not the discussion thereof.
-
WTF LHM?!
I'm 29 and haven't been attracted to a fourteen year old or anyone with a fourteen year old's physique since I was... Oh, I don't know FOURTEEN YEARS OLD?! In fact, I prefer it if the guys are OLDER than I am!
-
Going back to the original topic, one of the main reasons fashion models are so skinny is utilitarian. It's so that they're easier to fit clothes to. A dress doesn't need as much alteration to look good on a skinny model.
There are also some psychological factors at work. Thinness suggests self-control. A lusher build hints more at sex, and a less respectable woman, something that women in the fairly puritanical culture of the US are less likely to look for in a role model. As well, thinness suggests a rich woman, adding in another level of wish-fulfillment.
-
It also requires less fabric!
-
I always wished that if I ever made it as a fashion designer, and had to do a runway show, I'd just purchase some coat hangers, then attach them to a clothesline down the runway, and toss my designs on them. It's about the same effect, with the clothes just barely clinging to the model/clothes hanger.
-
Yes, many homosexuals.
And yes, people.
Homosexuals specificaly, people, that is, everyone, more generally. Not goal post shifting, extending the parametres of discussion.
Why are fashion models so skinny?
(http://www.femininebeauty.info/skinny-fashion-models) See? Scholarly footnoted article. I'm not making it all up
Explaining the typical looks of high-fashion models is easy. The top ranks of the fashion business are dominated by homosexual men (read details).(1) This is no secret: a major mainstream magazine catering to the GLBT community has stated, with pride, “To observe that gay men and lesbians dominate the fashion business may seem about as controversial as saying that Russians rule Moscow,â€Â(2) and the New York Times has asked why is fashion designing dominated by homosexual men.
Again, what part of this is a) news b) homophobic?
-
WTF LHM?!
I'm 29 and haven't been attracted to a fourteen year old or anyone with a fourteen year old's physique since I was... Oh, I don't know FOURTEEN YEARS OLD?! In fact, I prefer it if the guys are OLDER than I am!
Yeah, I believe you prefer guys who are older, but if you're telling me you've never seen a well built teenager and thought, "damn!" well, yeah, I don't believe you.
We're not talking about meaningful long term relationships here, just eye candy appreciation.
-
LHM, I'll admit that occasionally, I look at someone underage and think they're sexy. However, this tends to be because they've developed early and well. That is, I was attracted to them because they didn't look like teenagers. They looked like adults (and then dressed in ways to accentuate that).
If you're attracted to fourteen-year-olds because they look like fourteen-year-olds, then you're an ephebephile, and you have a problem. This is not anything to do with being gay or straight. It means you like kids, albeit older ones than a pedophile goes after. Most gays aren't ephebephiles. Most straight people aren't ephebephiles. Just because you or some people you know have this problem does not mean it is common in the population.
-
What Jack Man said.
-
Yes, many homosexuals.
And yes, people.
Homosexuals specificaly, people, that is, everyone, more generally. Not goal post shifting, extending the parametres of discussion.
Why are fashion models so skinny?
(http://www.femininebeauty.info/skinny-fashion-models) See? Scholarly footnoted article. I'm not making it all up
Explaining the typical looks of high-fashion models is easy. The top ranks of the fashion business are dominated by homosexual men (read details).(1) This is no secret: a major mainstream magazine catering to the GLBT community has stated, with pride, “To observe that gay men and lesbians dominate the fashion business may seem about as controversial as saying that Russians rule Moscow,â€Â(2) and the New York Times has asked why is fashion designing dominated by homosexual men.
Again, what part of this is a) news b) homophobic?
This is irrelevant. Your argument is "gay men dominate the fashion industry, therefore models must be stand-ins for adolescent boys." One does not necessarily mean the other. It is homophobic because it perpetuates the stereotype that gays are "converted" through molestation and that all gay men are child molesters.
Thin models are popular because Twiggy and other models fit the streamlined look of the sixties, and streamlined clothes looked best on androgynous figures. That has jack shit to do with ephebephilia.
-
Honestly, I expect this kind of thing on a fundie board. Normally by now a critically-thinking person would accede that perhaps he over-generalized in his assumptions and retract his statements. I called trolling before half-jokingly; I'm not joking anymore. He's either joking or an asshole.
-
If you're attracted to fourteen-year-olds because they look like fourteen-year-olds, then you're an ephebephile, and you have a problem. This is not anything to do with being gay or straight. It means you like kids, albeit older ones than a pedophile goes after. Most gays aren't ephebephiles. Most straight people aren't ephebephiles. Just because you or some people you know have this problem does not mean it is common in the population.
Well, I wouldn't say this is a problem unless you're acting upon it.
Remember how LHM said girls distracted him in High School and therefore everyone is distracted by people of the opposite sex so we should segregate schools and the military? Yeah, I think LHM is an ephebephile and is pretty doing the same thing on a different topic.
-
Yes, many homosexuals.
And yes, people.
Homosexuals specificaly, people, that is, everyone, more generally. Not goal post shifting, extending the parametres of discussion.
Why are fashion models so skinny?
(http://www.femininebeauty.info/skinny-fashion-models) See? Scholarly footnoted article. I'm not making it all up
Explaining the typical looks of high-fashion models is easy. The top ranks of the fashion business are dominated by homosexual men (read details).(1) This is no secret: a major mainstream magazine catering to the GLBT community has stated, with pride, “To observe that gay men and lesbians dominate the fashion business may seem about as controversial as saying that Russians rule Moscow,â€Â(2) and the New York Times has asked why is fashion designing dominated by homosexual men.
Again, what part of this is a) news b) homophobic?
This is irrelevant. Your argument is "gay men dominate the fashion industry, therefore models must be stand-ins for adolescent boys." One does not necessarily mean the other. It is homophobic because it perpetuates the stereotype that gays are "converted" through molestation and that all gay men are child molesters.
Thin models are popular because Twiggy and other models fit the streamlined look of the sixties, and streamlined clothes looked best on androgynous figures. That has jack shit to do with ephebephilia.
You're infering all sorts of stuff I'm sure as hell not saying.
It is homophobic because it perpetuates the stereotype that gays are "converted" through molestation and that all gay men are child molesters.
Youre words, not mine.
-
If you're attracted to fourteen-year-olds because they look like fourteen-year-olds, then you're an ephebephile, and you have a problem. This is not anything to do with being gay or straight. It means you like kids, albeit older ones than a pedophile goes after. Most gays aren't ephebephiles. Most straight people aren't ephebephiles. Just because you or some people you know have this problem does not mean it is common in the population.
Well, I wouldn't say this is a problem unless you're acting upon it.
Of course its not. Which it would be great if everyone would acknowledge, because I'm NOT calling anyone a child rapist, which seems to be what everyone WANTS me to say.
Remember how LHM said girls distracted him in High School and therefore everyone is distracted by people of the opposite sex so we should segregate schools and the military? Yeah, I think LHM is an ephebephile and is pretty doing the same thing on a different topic.
Yeah, I never said anything of the sort, but full marks for straw manning and ad homing.
To make it easier for you, I said ARMS CORPS units should be segregated, and I never suggested schools should be at all, because I don't think they should.
-
LHM, I'll admit that occasionally, I look at someone underage and think they're sexy.
*snip*
right. As have most other people. My point.
And... I provided documentation showing this isn't some weird idea that exists only in my head, but that has recieved general main stream acceptance.
Here's more
Will and Grace (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_%26_Grace#Ratings) whether you loved or hated it, its hard to believe the show wouyld have rated so well if people didn't think it was a realistic depiction.
-
Remember how LHM said girls distracted him in High School and therefore everyone is distracted by people of the opposite sex so we should segregate schools and the military? Yeah, I think LHM is an ephebephile and is pretty doing the same thing on a different topic.
Yeah, I never said anything of the sort, but full marks for straw manning and ad homing.
http://fstdt.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=rp&action=display&thread=10041
(http://fstdt.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=rp&action=display&thread=10041)
http://fstdt.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=pg&action=display&thread=9094
(http://fstdt.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=pg&action=display&thread=9094)
Read them and weep. And it's not an ad hom to describe a part of your character.
-
LHM, I'll admit that occasionally, I look at someone underage and think they're sexy.
*snip*
right. As have most other people. My point.
No. That's not your point. You've been saying that a large portion of gay people find people sexy because they look like 14-year-olds. Which isn't the case. I'm arguing that people might find certain 14-year-olds sexy because they don't look like they're fourteen. Someone who was attracted to someone like that would not want to find adults who looked like 14-year-olds. They would want adults who look like adults.
Liking 14-year-olds who look their age isn't normal.
-
LHM, I'll admit that occasionally, I look at someone underage and think they're sexy.
*snip*
right. As have most other people. My point.
No. That's not your point. You've been saying that a large portion of gay people find people sexy because they look like 14-year-olds. Which isn't the case. I'm arguing that people might find certain 14-year-olds sexy because they don't look like they're fourteen. Someone who was attracted to someone like that would not want to find adults who looked like 14-year-olds. They would want adults who look like adults.
Liking 14-year-olds who look their age isn't normal.
Well, I disagree. Since for most of human history, 14 is well and truly within prime reproduction age.
I acknowledge your point from a cultural norm standpoint, if it helps.
-
Remember how LHM said girls distracted him in High School and therefore everyone is distracted by people of the opposite sex so we should segregate schools and the military? Yeah, I think LHM is an ephebephile and is pretty doing the same thing on a different topic.
Yeah, I never said anything of the sort, but full marks for straw manning and ad homing.
http://fstdt.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=rp&action=display&thread=10041
(http://fstdt.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=rp&action=display&thread=10041)
http://fstdt.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=pg&action=display&thread=9094
(http://fstdt.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=pg&action=display&thread=9094)
Read them and weep. And it's not an ad hom to describe a part of your character.
Good one smart guy... one doesn't say what you said it said, and the other isn't even quoting me.
-
Honestly, I expect this kind of thing on a fundie board. Normally by now a critically-thinking person would accede that perhaps he over-generalized in his assumptions and retract his statements. I called trolling before half-jokingly; I'm not joking anymore. He's either joking or an asshole.
Have you not met LHM before? There's not a single hill he won't die on. Whether it is mocking a Down's Syndrome kid, the remote possibility that the Earth is flat, or 1+1=2, he will argue any point to the bitter-most end - no matter how inane or wrong headed.
-
Honestly, I expect this kind of thing on a fundie board. Normally by now a critically-thinking person would accede that perhaps he over-generalized in his assumptions and retract his statements. I called trolling before half-jokingly; I'm not joking anymore. He's either joking or an asshole.
Have you not met LHM before? There's not a single hill he won't die on. Whether it is mocking a Down's Syndrome kid, the remote possibility that the Earth is flat, or 1+1=2, he will argue any point to the bitter-most end - no matter how inane or wrong headed.
I think I apologised about the Down Syndrome kid.
It is still possible the Earth is flat and that 1+1=/=2.
-
See? That's why people get pissed off at you so much. You say shit just to be contrary.
-
LHM, I'll admit that occasionally, I look at someone underage and think they're sexy.
*snip*
right. As have most other people. My point.
And... I provided documentation showing this isn't some weird idea that exists only in my head, but that has recieved general main stream acceptance.
Here's more
Will and Grace (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_%26_Grace#Ratings) whether you loved or hated it, its hard to believe the show would have rated so well if people didn't think it was a realistic depiction.
Something being "mainstream" doesn't make it accurate. According to your logic, The Birth of a Nation wouldn't have done so well if it wasn't an accurate representation of black people and the KKK. Popularity =/= truth.
-
Popularity with homosexuals, though?
I don't think black people much cared for Birth of a Nation, but what did homosexuals think of Will and Grace?
-
See? That's why people get pissed off at you so much. You say shit just to be contrary.
SAorry, but that falls in the "crazy stuff I really believe" category.
-
Honestly, I expect this kind of thing on a fundie board. Normally by now a critically-thinking person would accede that perhaps he over-generalized in his assumptions and retract his statements. I called trolling before half-jokingly; I'm not joking anymore. He's either joking or an asshole.
Have you not met LHM before? There's not a single hill he won't die on. Whether it is mocking a Down's Syndrome kid, the remote possibility that the Earth is flat, or 1+1=2, he will argue any point to the bitter-most end - no matter how inane or wrong headed.
I have not; I'm actually pretty new on the boards.
-
Going back to the original topic, one of the main reasons fashion models are so skinny is utilitarian. It's so that they're easier to fit clothes to. A dress doesn't need as much alteration to look good on a skinny model.
Wll, that is just fuckin’ lazy.
WTF LHM?!
I'm 29 and haven't been attracted to a fourteen year old or anyone with a fourteen year old's physique since I was... Oh, I don't know FOURTEEN YEARS OLD?! In fact, I prefer it if the guys are OLDER than I am!
Yeah, I believe you prefer guys who are older, but if you're telling me you've never seen a well built teenager and thought, "damn!" well, yeah, I don't believe you
You’re projecting again.
It is still possible the Earth is flat and that 1+1=/=2.
You’re right, 1+1 = 10.
-
Going back to the original topic, one of the main reasons fashion models are so skinny is utilitarian. It's so that they're easier to fit clothes to. A dress doesn't need as much alteration to look good on a skinny model.
Wll, that is just fuckin’ lazy.
WTF LHM?!
I'm 29 and haven't been attracted to a fourteen year old or anyone with a fourteen year old's physique since I was... Oh, I don't know FOURTEEN YEARS OLD?! In fact, I prefer it if the guys are OLDER than I am!
Yeah, I believe you prefer guys who are older, but if you're telling me you've never seen a well built teenager and thought, "damn!" well, yeah, I don't believe you
You’re projecting again.
It is still possible the Earth is flat and that 1+1=/=2.
You’re right, 1+1 = 10.
I'm not discussing the 1+1 thing again in this thread. You want to discuss it start a new thread and I'll join you but suffice to say, discussion among real, respected mathematicians about exactly what 1+1 = is a real thing.
-
LHM, based on comments in another thread, you seem to have misread what was being discussed. We were in a discussion about a pair of right wing homophobes who were claiming that the reason why "stick figure thin" is the ideal for models and actresses is that the gay males who "control" the fashion industry are attracted to 14 year old boys, therefore "forcing" women with the bodies of 14 year old boys into the forefront of the popular consciousness. For proof of their homophobia, one need only look to see that they distinguished between "gays" and "guys". They are making their based from a place of "damned gay people". When you step in and, with no qualification of any sort, tacitly support their position, you appear to be agreeing with them. No one on this board, so far as I know, is a long-distance mind reader. Had you said "Aren't many people attracted to 14 year olds?", which I think is the point you were trying to make - namely that teeny-bopper physiques are considered attractive across the board and you can hardly blame lack of curvaceousness in fashion solely on the Gay Ephebophiles - no one would have associated you with the homophobes quoted in the OP.
*Reposted from a now locked thread, solely to ensure that LHM will see it...even if I predict he will not be swayed*
-
LHM, based on comments in another thread, you seem to have misread what was being discussed. We were in a discussion about a pair of right wing homophobes who were claiming that the reason why "stick figure thin" is the ideal for models and actresses is that the gay males who "control" the fashion industry are attracted to 14 year old boys, therefore "forcing" women with the bodies of 14 year old boys into the forefront of the popular consciousness. For proof of their homophobia, one need only look to see that they distinguished between "gays" and "guys". They are making their based from a place of "damned gay people". When you step in and, with no qualification of any sort, tacitly support their position, you appear to be agreeing with them. No one on this board, so far as I know, is a long-distance mind reader. Had you said "Aren't many people attracted to 14 year olds?", which I think is the point you were trying to make - namely that teeny-bopper physiques are considered attractive across the board and you can hardly blame lack of curvaceousness in fashion solely on the Gay Ephebophiles - no one would have associated you with the homophobes quoted in the OP.
*Reposted from a now locked thread, solely to ensure that LHM will see it...even if I predict he will not be swayed*
OK... Aren't there many people attracted to 14 year olds?
-
Well, he's got tenacity, I'll give credit for that. I won't lie though, the generalizations make me cringe. The other LGB I know (don't know any TG personally) can be kinky mofos, but...
Anyway, speaking of things that make me cringe: The absolutely emaciated bodies of those fashion models. I mean, my god... that doesn't look healthy. I can't imagine straight guys finding that attractive. If the purpose is to just pretend the models exist solely as things to hang clothes on, let's just put mannequins on tracks and save these poor girls' lives. >.>
As for the comments by the jackasses in the OP: Typical over-generalizing and dismissal that I think we're all used to reading/seeing/hearing. It reminds me of the laughable comments I read back when they were trying to gender-equalize the astronaut profession... "what about the gozangas? Won't they get in the way in zero-G?" Not in so many words obviously, but the same degree of ignorance is present here.
-
Is LHM seriously arguing the "homosexuals are pedophiles" angle?
Seriously?
I have known quite a few gay people, hell I have a gay man in my math class and I don't know any that are attracted to 14 year old physiques.
-
You’re right, 1+1 = 10.
I'm not discussing the 1+1 thing again in this thread. You want to discuss it start a new thread and I'll join you but suffice to say, discussion among real, respected mathematicians about exactly what 1+1 = is a real thing.
* Dusts off Computer Science diploma *
-
Honestly, I expect this kind of thing on a fundie board. Normally by now a critically-thinking person would accede that perhaps he over-generalized in his assumptions and retract his statements. I called trolling before half-jokingly; I'm not joking anymore. He's either joking or an asshole.
Have you not met LHM before? There's not a single hill he won't die on. Whether it is mocking a Down's Syndrome kid, the remote possibility that the Earth is flat, or 1+1=2, he will argue any point to the bitter-most end - no matter how inane or wrong headed.
Maybe this should be moved to Flame & Burn then, considering his posting history and the direction of this thread?
EDIT: Whoa, saw what transpired in F&B when I was in class. Nevermind then.
-
Remember how LHM said girls distracted him in High School and therefore everyone is distracted by people of the opposite sex so we should segregate schools and the military? Yeah, I think LHM is an ephebephile and is pretty doing the same thing on a different topic.
Yeah, I never said anything of the sort, but full marks for straw manning and ad homing.
http://fstdt.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=rp&action=display&thread=10041
(http://fstdt.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=rp&action=display&thread=10041)
http://fstdt.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=pg&action=display&thread=9094
(http://fstdt.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=pg&action=display&thread=9094)
Read them and weep. And it's not an ad hom to describe a part of your character.
Good one smart guy... one doesn't say what you said it said, and the other isn't even quoting me.
Since you are too lazy to even read...
Its about the numbers. Homosexuals make up about 10 perceent of the population, give or take. So you don't get the same jealousy/break up/make up/ resentment across an all male unit because of homosexuals as you would with heterosexuals. I guess if you had an all male unit that was significantly higher than 10% gay, you might get the sdame problems
Who's blaming women?
If you took 5 seconds to analyse my position, rather than leaping in to flame me, you might understand that I actually think it is mostly the men who are the problem here. Actually, mostly its young people in general. But the way men act when there is a large group of men with a small number of women, in an isolated high stress environment is the problem.
This... I went from solid As and Bs at an all boys school to Ds and Fs when I went co-ed.
Will you believe me, then?
Despite popular opinion, there is the occasional teenager that is not controlled soleley by their sex hormones.
Nope. No offence.
If your performance is suffering because of boobies, then it's your own fault for being responsible, not some default state.
I never suggested otherwise, did I? What I DID say, is that teenagers, generally speaking, are pretty irresponsible, and I stand by that.
I merely offered my own, personal experience, and was attacked for it.
So while you didn't say that schools have to be segregated, you think that is the best because you were horny and therfore all teens are.
Also, this thread here, which I originally meant to post.
http://fstdt.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=pg&action=display&thread=9955
-
Hey, I had a strong libido throughout my teen years... actually, I still do. Still didn't go groping people in the hallways, nor do I stare obsessively today.
Well... just a peek...
That's really not nice, David Cop-a-feel. Couple of warning signs for you:
1) Your experiences != all experiences. I mean, they can, but it is not necessarily true.
2) Any time you have to start an argument with "all X's are" or "all X's do"... you're probably wrong.
-
Who wants to place bets on this thread going the direction of the other one in F&B? I say within the week
-
Since I left right before shit hit the fan, I'll just reiterate a few point:
Camp =/= pubescent
Young =/= pubescent
Skinny (since your own source was skinny fashion models)1 =/= pubescent
Your experience =/= socially accepted phenomena2
I want to be optimistic and say I hope you come to realize that you made many erroneous statements and dishonest argument tactics. I don't want you banned, but sometimes you can be a bit hardheaded, LHM.
1. Which is your observation. I have already said that I know fashion designers which completely contradict the whole skinny look.
2. Experience can indeed reflect a real social phenomena but there needs to be a group experience. So until you provide a work showing it (like an ethnography or such), all you have is just anecdote.
-
Who wants to place bets on this thread going the direction of the other one in F&B? I say within the week
Well, it'll either go there or in the Lox'd Box for becoming even worse. >.<
-
Who wants to place bets on this thread going the direction of the other one in F&B? I say within the week
Well, it'll either go there or in the Lox'd Box for becoming even worse. >.<
The other one is in the lox'd box too. My bet in that thread won.
-
Who wants to place bets on this thread going the direction of the other one in F&B? I say within the week
Well, it'll either go there or in the Lox'd Box for becoming even worse. >.<
The other one is in the lox'd box too. My bet in that thread won.
Oh. THAT thread. I didn't see it until it was there, and just went through it a little while ago.
All I can say is "Wow, LHM! Fucking really?"
-
Who wants to place bets on this thread going the direction of the other one in F&B? I say within the week
Well, it'll either go there or in the Lox'd Box for becoming even worse. >.<
The other one is in the lox'd box too. My bet in that thread won.
Oh. THAT thread. I didn't see it until it was there, and just went through it a little while ago.
All I can say is "Wow, LHM! Fucking really?"
Same
-
Ditto. His posts there make his posts here look normal by comparison. I mean, he's hardly a heartless bastard... he makes benign posts here too and I see them... which just makes these posts even more baffling.
-
Not to derail the LHM love-fest here, but is it at least still okay to be shota for Bridget?
-
Not to derail the LHM love-fest here, but is it at least still okay to be shota for Bridget?
Yes, lol.
-
Not to derail the LHM love-fest here, but is it at least still okay to be shota for Bridget?
[Insert method of saying "yes" without sounding like a total hypocrite]
I'm not, I don't mind if you are, but I can't think of the weasel-words I'd need to not basically give LHM a free "A HA!"
So in place of the text of this post, substitute whatever works for that in your mind.
EDIT: I did not know you could make your own Troper page. Maybe as long as I'm just sitting here being ill I should do that...
-
Is LHM seriously arguing the "homosexuals are pedophiles" angle?
Seriously?
I have known quite a few gay people, hell I have a gay man in my math class and I don't know any that are attracted to 14 year old physiques.
far out! I have just spent 6 pages and 2 threads saying thats NOT what l'm saying.
-
I really don't see what l've said that isn't a)common sense, or b)generally accepted.
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
- Albert Einstein
Also, back on topic: It used to be that fashion designers would deliberately pick plain-looking women to be models, so that their appearances wouldn't distract from the clothes they were wearing.
-
Also, back on topic: It used to be that fashion designers would deliberately pick plain-looking women to be models, so that their appearances wouldn't distract from the clothes they were wearing.
In a way, I think they still do. Most fashion models look very much the same to me.
-
Also, back on topic: It used to be that fashion designers would deliberately pick plain-looking women to be models, so that their appearances wouldn't distract from the clothes they were wearing.
In a way, I think they still do. Most fashion models look very much the same to me.
They all look too much like foxes. I think the problem is that when sketching fashions, the clothes are put on drawings that are basically stick-figure women.
-
I'm not discussing the 1+1 thing again in this thread. You want to discuss it start a new thread and I'll join you but suffice to say, discussion among real, respected mathematicians about exactly what 1+1 = is a real thing.
New thread, you say? (http://forums.fstdt.net/science-and-technology/112-390)
-
Wow, forum exploded while I was out.
Also, back on topic: It used to be that fashion designers would deliberately pick plain-looking women to be models, so that their appearances wouldn't distract from the clothes they were wearing.
In a way, I think they still do. Most fashion models look very much the same to me.
Oh, thank God, I'm not the only one who thinks models are weird looking.
-
So do I, and it's not just cause I'm gay. The fact that they all look so similar serves to creep me the fuck out.
-
I know this is from a few pages back, but I so need to comment on this.
Yes, many homosexuals.
And yes, people.
Homosexuals specificaly, people, that is, everyone, more generally. Not goal post shifting, extending the parametres of discussion.
Why are fashion models so skinny?
(http://www.femininebeauty.info/skinny-fashion-models) See? Scholarly footnoted article. I'm not making it all up
Explaining the typical looks of high-fashion models is easy. The top ranks of the fashion business are dominated by homosexual men (read details).(1) This is no secret: a major mainstream magazine catering to the GLBT community has stated, with pride, “To observe that gay men and lesbians dominate the fashion business may seem about as controversial as saying that Russians rule Moscow,â€Â(2) and the New York Times has asked why is fashion designing dominated by homosexual men.
Again, what part of this is a) news b) homophobic?
I looked into more detail at the site, LHM, here is another article.
The transsexual parade otherwise known as the Victoria’s Secret lingerie show: part 1 - Karolina Kurkova
http://www.femininebeauty.info/victorias-secret-karolina-kurkova (http://www.femininebeauty.info/victorias-secret-karolina-kurkova)
Why do you submit shit from idiotic websites?
-
I know this is from a few pages back, but I so need to comment on this.
Yes, many homosexuals.
And yes, people.
Homosexuals specificaly, people, that is, everyone, more generally. Not goal post shifting, extending the parametres of discussion.
Why are fashion models so skinny?
(http://www.femininebeauty.info/skinny-fashion-models) See? Scholarly footnoted article. I'm not making it all up
Explaining the typical looks of high-fashion models is easy. The top ranks of the fashion business are dominated by homosexual men (read details).(1) This is no secret: a major mainstream magazine catering to the GLBT community has stated, with pride, “To observe that gay men and lesbians dominate the fashion business may seem about as controversial as saying that Russians rule Moscow,â€Â(2) and the New York Times has asked why is fashion designing dominated by homosexual men.
Again, what part of this is a) news b) homophobic?
I looked into more detail at the site, LHM, here is another article.
The transsexual parade otherwise known as the Victoria’s Secret lingerie show: part 1 - Karolina Kurkova
http://www.femininebeauty.info/victorias-secret-karolina-kurkova (http://www.femininebeauty.info/victorias-secret-karolina-kurkova)
Why do you submit shit from idiotic websites?
So, the article's no good because another, unrelated article, on the same website is no good?
-
Also, you might think the article was idiotic, but my poin t was "this whole 14 year old thing isn't something I made up myself, see, other people think it too", which the aqrticle proves. Maybe the article is dumb as a bag of husky pups, but it still proves nothing I said is some weird aberant thought that exists only in my own head.
-
(http://i.imgur.com/iTxtS.jpg)
Is it so hard to admit that you used a poor source?
-
(http://i.imgur.com/iTxtS.jpg)
Is it so hard to admit that you used a poor source?
I'm not convinced it was a poor source, but for arguments sake, lets agree it was a worse source than Rapture REady for evolution information, it STILL proves my point i.e. Other people think this too.
-
This may be true, but as a means of establishing truth, it is pure argumentum ad populum.
-
I'm not saying anything stupid like ALL gay men like 14 year old boys EXCLUSIVELY. However... the idea that a large percentage of homosexual men like a physique reminiscent of a 14 year old boy (be it on a 14 year old boy or a 19 year old female model) is a pretty well accepted social phenomenon (annecdotal, I know, but several of my homosexual aquaintances have made comments to that effect. ) I'm not saying thats ALL they're attracted to, either. But it is there.
Just like a 35 year old man might be in a perfectly happy heterosexual relationship with another 35 year old, yet have his head well and truly turned by a fit 16year old girl.
No, see. The part where you said 'pretty well accepted social phenomenon' and then the part where a 'large portion of the homosexual population are attracted to the idea of a 14 year old boy' was your point.
Which, y'know. It isn't a pretty well accepted phenomenon just because one other place somehow thinks so. One place, that as Vene pointed out, is queerphobic of the highest degree.
It's like a person 'proving' X is bad by showing a site that is heavily biased against X. No, not like. It is.
Just because other people think it too doesn't mean it's right or true. It's hardly based in fact that 'MANY homosexuals find 14-year-old physiques or actual 14-year-olds attractive'. Yet you are being disingenuous by showing a source that is so obviously phobic my grandmother could see it from space. You are being disingenuous by going 'but they have SOURCES and FOOTNOTES! It's all scholarly! So it MUST be true!'
Any idiot can source and footnote things to 'prove' something. The world we live in makes it so you can claim there to be unicorns and somewhere you will have some sort of 'proof' of that existence. Whether because you want to see it or because someone is playing a hoax.
Jumping back to the footnotes and stuff, why isn't it okay for us to not want to believe you on this because of one article having 'proper citations' but when we do it to you because it proves you wrong it's somehow not good enough?
-
(http://i.imgur.com/iTxtS.jpg)
Is it so hard to admit that you used a poor source?
I'm not convinced it was a poor source, but for arguments sake, lets agree it was a worse source than Rapture REady for evolution information, it STILL proves my point i.e. Other people think this too.
So... DON'T 14 year old boys appeal to many homosexuals?
Because these are totally the same thing.
I repeat,
(http://i.imgur.com/6TkCw.jpg)
-
This may be true, but as a means of establishing truth, it is pure argumentum ad populum.
My point was purely "this is something lots of people think", I wasn't trying to make an actual argument that the information in the article was good.
To sumarise, I said something to the effect, "lots of people think this".
I was jumped all over by several posters saying something to the effect "no they don't!"
so-> article; showing at least some other people think this.
OK?
-
YEAH, read the thread again, and try to see why I posted that link and what I posted it in response to.
By the way, have you got anything to back up your assertion that its a bad article other than poisoning the well and some cute Jpegs?
-
This may be true, but as a means of establishing truth, it is pure argumentum ad populum.
My point was purely "this is something lots of people think", I wasn't trying to make an actual argument that the information in the article was good.
To sumarise, I said something to the effect, "lots of people think this".
I was jumped all over by several posters saying something to the effect "no they don't!"
so-> article; showing at least some other people think this.
OK?
No, you're still wrong about the 'lots of people' and the 'large percentage of homosexuals'. So no, it's not OK. Especially not with the quoted post I showed earlier.
And you contradicted yourself too. Nice job.
-
Are you even TRYING to understand what I tried to say?
At this point I'm more than happy to apologise for my initial, entirely innocuous stement and then trying to explain it. Its obvious we're all far more interested in playing the semantic "gotcha" game than actually trying to understand each other.
-
Let me make it real easy... if anyone is interested in my actual opinion, please ask. If you are interested in trying to catch me out in some sort of "gotcha, before you said 'many', but now your saying 'lots', you totally shifted goal posts", then, I'm not playing.
-
(http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqktjeH68U1qj4mo9o3_250.gif)
No, I'm more interested in you trying to backpedal, move goal posts, and in general be a poor debater. It's not my fault you 'tried' and failed.
And now you're playing the victim and persecution cards.
(http://chzmemebase.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/memes-admit-it-we-all-feel-this-way.jpg)
-
So thats a "no, you'd rather call names and post Gifs than try to understand what I was trying to say"?
Glad that's clear.
-
stop playing the victim, LHM. You can't say stupid homophobic shit like "many gays find 14 year old boys attractive" and not expect to be called out.
-
My point was purely "this is something lots of people think", I wasn't trying to make an actual argument that the information in the article was good.
To sumarise, I said something to the effect, "lots of people think this".
I was jumped all over by several posters saying something to the effect "no they don't!"
Uh, no. That is a lie. That isn't even a good lie. You said:
So... DON'T 14 year old boys appeal to many homosexuals?
Not "don't many people believe that?" or "why are you jumping on her when a lot of people think it?" or whatever, you said, in the tone of, "The sky isn't blue?", "Don't fourteen-year-olds appeal to many homosexuals?"
People called you on it. You refused to see why saying this was a problem. You expressed surprise at the thought that gay people weren't attracted to fourteen-year-olds:
...No... really not sure what is such a revelation about the physique of 14 year old boys appealing to some homosexuals. Is this news?
You then switched goalposts by saying that most people in general were attracted to a fourteen-year-old's physique, and used anecdotal evidence to back yourself up.
I'm not saying anything stupid like ALL gay men like 14 year old boys EXCLUSIVELY. However... the idea that a large percentage of homosexual men like a physique reminiscent of a 14 year old boy (be it on a 14 year old boy or a 19 year old female model) is a pretty well accepted social phenomenon (annecdotal, I know, but several of my homosexual aquaintances have made comments to that effect. ) I'm not saying thats ALL they're attracted to, either. But it is there.
Just like a 35 year old man might be in a perfectly happy heterosexual relationship with another 35 year old, yet have his head well and truly turned by a fit 16year old girl.
Note that in that quote, you are not saying "most people think this," you are saying "most people are this."
Kindly stop bullshitting by trying to retcon what you said.
-
At this point I'm more than happy to apologise for my initial, entirely innocuous stement and then trying to explain it.
By stating here that it is innocuous, that means an apology won't mean shit.
-
My point was purely "this is something lots of people think", I wasn't trying to make an actual argument that the information in the article was good.
To sumarise, I said something to the effect, "lots of people think this".
I was jumped all over by several posters saying something to the effect "no they don't!"
Uh, no. That is a lie. That isn't even a good lie. You said:
So... DON'T 14 year old boys appeal to many homosexuals?
Not "don't many people believe that?" or "why are you jumping on her when a lot of people think it?" or whatever, you said, in the tone of, "The sky isn't blue?", "Don't fourteen-year-olds appeal to many homosexuals?"
People called you on it. You refused to see why saying this was a problem. You expressed surprise at the thought that gay people weren't attracted to fourteen-year-olds:
...No... really not sure what is such a revelation about the physique of 14 year old boys appealing to some homosexuals. Is this news?
You then switched goalposts by saying that most people in general were attracted to a fourteen-year-old's physique, and used anecdotal evidence to back yourself up.
I'm not saying anything stupid like ALL gay men like 14 year old boys EXCLUSIVELY. However... the idea that a large percentage of homosexual men like a physique reminiscent of a 14 year old boy (be it on a 14 year old boy or a 19 year old female model) is a pretty well accepted social phenomenon (annecdotal, I know, but several of my homosexual aquaintances have made comments to that effect. ) I'm not saying thats ALL they're attracted to, either. But it is there.
Just like a 35 year old man might be in a perfectly happy heterosexual relationship with another 35 year old, yet have his head well and truly turned by a fit 16year old girl.
Note that in that quote, you are not saying "most people think this," you are saying "most people are this."
Kindly stop bullshitting by trying to retcon what you said.
I'[m really note. Maybe I expressed myself badly, and I apologise, but I really did NOT mean what you seem to think I meant.
-
At this point I'm more than happy to apologise for my initial, entirely innocuous stement and then trying to explain it.
By stating here that it is innocuous, that means an apology won't mean shit.
It was innocuous, but I sincerely apologise to any one I offended, because I really wasn't trying to be offensive. I'm really still not sure what I said that everyone finds so offensive, but I'm very sorry if I offended anyone. Obviously what I said was offensive to some people, even if I didn't mean it to be, and I'm sorry.
How do you figure "that means an apology won't mean shit"?
-
I mean, I said what I said, tried to explain it, and when that didn't work tried to apologise for it. I'm apologising right now. What more do you want?
-
I mean, I said what I said, tried to explain it, and when that didn't work tried to apologise for it. I'm apologising right now. What more do you want?
For you to actually be sorry over doing something wrong (or admit that you were wrong instead of trying to retcon) instead of saying 'I'm sorry you were offended.'
-
I mean, I said what I said, tried to explain it, and when that didn't work tried to apologise for it. I'm apologising right now. What more do you want?
For you to actually be sorry over doing something wrong (or admit that you were wrong instead of trying to retcon) instead of saying 'I'm sorry you were offended.'
I can't apologise for saying something I don't think was wrong. But you're going to start demanding apologies for differing opinions now? I apologise for offending anyone. I apologise for expressing myself in such a way that people thought I was being offensive. I'm sorry that I offended anyone at all.
I'm not apologising for having an opinion, even if I don't seem able to express it in a way people don't find offensive. I just reread the rules, I'm pretty sure differences of opinion are allowed.
-
I mean, I said what I said, tried to explain it, and when that didn't work tried to apologise for it. I'm apologising right now. What more do you want?
For you to actually be sorry over doing something wrong (or admit that you were wrong instead of trying to retcon) instead of saying 'I'm sorry you were offended.'
I can't apologise for saying something I don't think was wrong. But you're going to start demanding apologies for differing opinions now? I apologise for offending anyone. I apologise for expressing myself in such a way that people thought I was being offensive. I'm sorry that I offended anyone at all.
I'm not apologising for having an opinion, even if I don't seem able to express it in a way people don't find offensive. I just reread the rules, I'm pretty sure differences of opinion are allowed.
Piss off with your persecution complex.
-
I'[m really note. Maybe I expressed myself badly, and I apologise, but I really did NOT mean what you seem to think I meant.
Lemme give you a piece of advice that should be bloody obvious to everything who devotes half a brain cell thinking about it. You cannot mean what you say if you don't say what you mean. Furthermore, if you don't mean what you say then you are not participating in any meaningful way to a discussion and might as well roll your face across your keyboard for your responses as it would express what you want equally well.
-
(http://vnmedia.ign.com/conanvault.ign.com/images/top10/2/thread.jpg)
-
Let me make it real easy... if anyone is interested in my actual opinion, please ask. If you are interested in trying to catch me out in some sort of "gotcha, before you said 'many', but now your saying 'lots', you totally shifted goal posts", then, I'm not playing.
Okay, here's your chance. What, exactly, is your opinion? Use small words and make it very straightforward and leave no room for misinterpretation.
-
Basically LHM says that the majority of people, homosexuals included, find young teenagers sexually attractive. After being told my many members from this board that they don't fit his view, he continued arguing.
I'd agree with LHM if he presented a source containing stats that prove his claim, but no, he's just using his common "sense"
-
Oh, he used a source it just wasn't a proper one.
-
You know what other things are socially accepted phenomenon?
1. Women are always weaker than men
2. Men can't be raped
3. Women cannot abuse men
4. All gays are promiscuous and have dozens of partners each year
5. All gays are feminine and sissies
6. All lesbians are masculine and butch
7. If a woman achieved orgasm during rape, then it cannot count as rape because she "enjoyed it"
8. Men cannot be made hard against their own will (ties in with 2)
9. If a woman is showing any skin, she invited rape and so it doesn't actually count as rape.
Etc. etc. etc.
Just because something is a "socially accepted phenomenon" does not, in any shape or form, make it even the slightest bit accurate.
"I found someone who agrees with me" does not make any slightest bit of good argument.
Take some responsibility for your own actions for a change, LHM.
-
(http://operatorchan.org/k/arch/src/k182284_fuck%20this%20thread%20outta%20here.jpg)
-
Putting the thread back in track, sort of...
I'm definitely exploring femininebeauty.info looking for main page worthy quotes. There's so much bigotry, egocentrism, reactionism, opinion myopia, and plain old meanness in Erik's articles and comments, he must have crossed the line at some point. He's basically arguing the same thing as the two asshats in the OP, except he's devoting his entire website to the attack against traditional femininity orchestrated by a cabal of dirty old f*gs and fat, ugly feminists.
For example, in the "models are trannies" article:
I know that homosexual men tend to be overrepresented in artistic endeavors, but this does not mean that their artistic works are necessarily of aesthetic merit to the general population. It is not unusual for the art coming from homosexuals to display the mental illnesses more common among them...sadomasochistic elements would be a good example.
Also, in the very page that LHM quoted (though I can't really blame him for not reading the entire article - it is awfully long):
Why don’t gay fashion designers use boys in their early teens as male models?
Why indeed don’t they use boys in their early teens to market clothes to adult men? Simple. They couldn’t get away with it. It would be a dead giveaway of their sexuality, and the Western public hasn’t warmed up to pederasty yet. On the other hand, the homosexuals will obviously attempt to push the boundaries.
Then you have this entire section:
The 4 women shown on the left are top officials of the U.S. National Organization for Women (NOW) as of 2005; shown from left to right: Olga Vives (Vice President – Executive), Kim Gandy (President), Melody Drnach (Vice President – Action) and Latifa Lyles (Vice President – Membership). All three white NOW officers shown have heavily masculinized facial features. The gracile facial features of Melody Drnach can be confounded with femininity, but her gracile features are not related to feminization and reflect, instead, ethnic traits most extensively found among Northern Europeans; her face shape is clearly seen as heavily masculinized (see the subtlety of masculinity-femininity). Although the African-American is masculine-looking, too, addressing her features is not relevant because one cannot be sure that she has earned her position via merit. You see, NOW subscribes to the belief, “underrepresentation of a particular group equals evidence for discrimination against the group,†i.e., it is bound to place a non-white female among its top officials -- irrespective of merit -- lest it be accused of racism. Incidentally, the African-American woman has been assigned to the least intellectually demanding position among the top-ranked officials. The picture on the right shows ostensibly-heterosexual feminist Naomi Wolf with heavy facial masculinization, which also happens to be accompanied by broad shoulders, a muscular build and obesity (not shown).
Something else that comes pretty close in my opinion: (http://www.femininebeauty.info/comment/2954#comment-2954)
gjhg: Where have I implied, “these tastes are exclusive to homosexuals� The argument is that attraction to less than 16-year-olds is more common among homosexual and bisexual adults. 13-year-olds who are eyed by middle-aged pervs are typically more physically mature than their peers. Look at the second row here and guess which of the girls is much more likely to be longingly glanced at by middle-aged pervs.
Most people do not have sexually twisted desires.
Shortly after, he posts a link to this... controversial... site (http://www.homosexinfo.org/Sexuality/Pedophilia). Apparently the scientific consensus isn't enough for him, he has to base his opinions on ultra-fringe sources (just Google it, the first page results are... edifying).
And despite all of this, he still has the balls to claim that he doesn't believe in a gay agenda, and that he never said homosexuals were pedophiles. His rhetoric is hateful... intensely, obviously so. Yet he always rejects the use of terms that are ostensibly hateful. It's almost like he's actively trying to avoid the FSTDT main page despite being a first-grade douchebag. So disappointing.
-
I'm fairly certain that, were those quotes put up on the main page, there would be plenty for the users of this site, particularly the LGBT crowd, to pick apart.
-
Let me make it real easy... if anyone is interested in my actual opinion, please ask. If you are interested in trying to catch me out in some sort of "gotcha, before you said 'many', but now your saying 'lots', you totally shifted goal posts", then, I'm not playing.
Okay, here's your chance. What, exactly, is your opinion? Use small words and make it very straightforward and leave no room for misinterpretation.
People find, among other things, young people attractive. And that's finding someone attractive doesn't necesarily mean you are going to try to have sex with them, or that you aren't attracted to anyone else.
I really think thats it, I tried.
-
Basically LHM says that the majority of people, homosexuals included, find young teenagers sexually attractive. After being told my many members from this board that they don't fit his view, he continued arguing.
I'd agree with LHM if he presented a source containing stats that prove his claim, but no, he's just using his common "sense"
OK, IMHO, people ocassionally find some teenagers attractive. Any better?
-
You know what other things are socially accepted phenomenon?
1. Women are always weaker than men
2. Men can't be raped
3. Women cannot abuse men
4. All gays are promiscuous and have dozens of partners each year
5. All gays are feminine and sissies
6. All lesbians are masculine and butch
7. If a woman achieved orgasm during rape, then it cannot count as rape because she "enjoyed it"
8. Men cannot be made hard against their own will (ties in with 2)
9. If a woman is showing any skin, she invited rape and so it doesn't actually count as rape.
Etc. etc. etc.
Just because something is a "socially accepted phenomenon" does not, in any shape or form, make it even the slightest bit accurate.
"I found someone who agrees with me" does not make any slightest bit of good argument.
Take some responsibility for your own actions for a change, LHM.
Yeah, I take your point, common acceptance of a belief doesn't indicate accuracy... but I wasn't trying to pprove it, merely that it was a common thing to think. I've already apologised for offending anyone. What else can I do?
-
FUCK THIS THREAD I'M OUTTA HERE.
Same here, and I started the damn thing. Peace.
-
You know what other things are socially accepted phenomenon?
1. Women are always weaker than men
2. Men can't be raped
3. Women cannot abuse men
4. All gays are promiscuous and have dozens of partners each year
5. All gays are feminine and sissies
6. All lesbians are masculine and butch
7. If a woman achieved orgasm during rape, then it cannot count as rape because she "enjoyed it"
8. Men cannot be made hard against their own will (ties in with 2)
9. If a woman is showing any skin, she invited rape and so it doesn't actually count as rape.
Etc. etc. etc.
Just because something is a "socially accepted phenomenon" does not, in any shape or form, make it even the slightest bit accurate.
"I found someone who agrees with me" does not make any slightest bit of good argument.
Take some responsibility for your own actions for a change, LHM.
Yeah, I take your point, common acceptance of a belief doesn't indicate accuracy... but I wasn't trying to pprove it, merely that it was a common thing to think. I've already apologised for offending anyone. What else can I do?
Your original statement, the one that started this whole to-do, is not phrased as a "this is what many people believe" statement. It is phrased as a "didn't you know that this is true?" statement. Now stop pretending like you don't understand that.
-
Basically LHM says that the majority of people, homosexuals included, find young teenagers sexually attractive. After being told my many members from this board that they don't fit his view, he continued arguing.
I'd agree with LHM if he presented a source containing stats that prove his claim, but no, he's just using his common "sense"
OK, IMHO, people ocassionally find some teenagers attractive. Any better?
This is true. It is also completely irrelevant to the topic of this thread.
-
*Reads thread*
........
(http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x466/TailsKitsune/MLP/5445645989_9f979bf484_o.png)
-
I have my own theory as to why fashion designers prefer thin models and it has zip to do with sexual preference.
(http://www.hanger-manufacturers.com/picture/wire-hangers/wire-clothes-hanger.jpg)
Look, there's Kate Moss!
-
HOLY NECRO BATMAN!