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Rubbish => Preaching and Worship => Topic started by: Jacob Harrison on August 10, 2018, 08:35:09 pm

Title: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 10, 2018, 08:35:09 pm
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-predicted-ingersoll-lockwood-adventures-barron-melania-last-644284

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0uedwAxbSE&app=desktop

Hopefully this prophecy come true will convert you guys to Christianity in these end days before the second coming of Christ.

Perhaps Trumps presidency is somehow connected with my plans to have the true English monarch come to the throne liberate Constantinople and the Holy Land which would involve war with the Antichrist Muslim countries who would try to gain back Palestine. Hallelujah!
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: dpareja on August 10, 2018, 08:54:09 pm
What.

The.

Ever.

Loving.

Fuck.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 10, 2018, 09:08:46 pm
What.

The.

Ever.

Loving.

Fuck.

I know it is shocking. How accurate those 1800s novels were and The Bible prophecy.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 10, 2018, 09:44:09 pm
Quote
Lavish old fashioned clothing

Have you seen Trump's dress sense? He looks like he slept in his suit.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 10, 2018, 09:55:34 pm
Quote
Lavish old fashioned clothing

Have you seen Trump's dress sense? He looks like he slept in his suit.

It was written so that people back then would understand. But how do you explain other accurate things such as the fact that the protagonist  is named Baron Trump, and the hotel on 5th Avenue where Trump tower is now?
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: ironbite on August 10, 2018, 10:08:53 pm
Go back to fucking your second cousin in her jeans.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 10, 2018, 11:46:41 pm
Quote
Lavish old fashioned clothing

Have you seen Trump's dress sense? He looks like he slept in his suit.

It was written so that people back then would understand. But how do you explain other accurate things such as the fact that the protagonist  is named Baron Trump, and the hotel on 5th Avenue where Trump tower is now?

Take it away Snopes! (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/baron-trumps-marvelous-underground-journey/)

Quote
Finally, the book mentions”The Fifth Avenue Hotel,” meaning that it shares a street with Trump Tower. Since Fifth Avenue is, a well-known part of New York that has been the site for several high-end restaurants, shops and hotels since the late 1800s (the Waldorf–Astoria was constructed on Fifth Avenue in 1893), this detail seems to be more a reflection of the time it was written, and less a prescient note of where Trump Tower would eventually be constructed.

Although these books contain some seemingly bizarre coincidences, they are not evidence that Donald Trump has access to a time machine. Time travel conspiracy theories such as this one pick and choose material that supports their conclusions while ignoring everything else. For instance, these books also contain giant turtles, alternate dimensions, a battle with a big white crane, a dog named Bulgar, and a little smiling man frozen in time. Since these aspects have no clear connection to the Trumps, they are omitted from the conspiracy theory.

Even if you could prove extra dimensions, time travelling Republicans and produce a dog called Bulgar none of this makes this a specifically biblical premonition. It'd only prove some maniac let Donald Trump near a time machine!

Which it hasn't proven, don't get too excited. Like I said in the last post you ran away from, you aren't trying to convince you who'd believe anything that fit your mad little worldview, you're trying to convince us. Know your audience, try to convince them.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 11, 2018, 08:55:57 am
The fact that there was a character called Trump and the sequel was a book about the last President shows that it was a prophecy. Since time travel will probably not be invented for a long time, it is more likely that the author had a revelation from God. And did you watch the YouTube video that shows that Trump was in bible prophecy?
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 12, 2018, 02:19:26 am
The fact that there was a character called Trump and the sequel was a book about the last President shows that it was a prophecy. Since time travel will probably not be invented for a long time, it is more likely that the author had a revelation from God. And did you watch the YouTube video that shows that Trump was in bible prophecy?

There's no evidence that God exists, it's why it's called a "faith" and not "data gleaned from the evidence."

There's no evidence that time travel is possible, there are a few hypothetical ways it may be done all of which rely on negative mass and stupendous amounts of matter and energy and then there's getting around the whole causality thing.

There is evidence that coincidences do occur, sure it's an improbable coincidence but we can rule out time travel and revelations from God as there is no evidence that either of those things are real.

Take it away Sherlock.

Quote
It is an old maxim of mine that when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

Improbable coincidences are improbable but, as far as we know, time travel and God aren't possible because nobody has shown them to be possible yet.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Skybison on August 12, 2018, 04:55:50 pm
The Trump Presidency is proof that time travel in impossible, or at least will never be invented by humans, because if it was possible then Time Travelers would have come back in time to stop him by now.

The Trump Presidency also proves that the Christian God does not exist because he is all powerful and all loving.  But a loving God would never allow Trump to become president, and an all powerful god could easily prevent it so the fact that Trump is president means God does not exist.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 12, 2018, 05:55:13 pm
The Trump Presidency is proof that time travel in impossible, or at least will never be invented by humans, because if it was possible then Time Travelers would have come back in time to stop him by now.

The Trump Presidency also proves that the Christian God does not exist because he is all powerful and all loving.  But a loving God would never allow Trump to become president, and an all powerful god could easily prevent it so the fact that Trump is president means God does not exist.

God supports Trump’s presidency because of Trumps pro Christian policies. Unfortunetely Trump is still going to hell because he is divorced and remarried.

And if you travel back in time, you actually causes parallel universes to be created because changing something in history will create a timeline where the time traveler does not go back in time to change history reverting to the previous timeline which creates two simultaneous realities. So there probably are parallel universes where Trump was stopped. I pity the Americans from those universes who have to suffer under crooked Hillary’s presidency.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: dpareja on August 12, 2018, 06:34:43 pm
You mean those pro-Christian policies that turn back (largely Catholic) people from Latin America? You mean those pro-Christian policies that want to discriminate against immigrants when the Bible explicitly commands you to treat the sojourner in your land as if he were of your own people?

The Republican Party has been, for quite some time, the party of Christian theocracy, in direct contradiction to the very first guarantee of the First Amendment to the US Constitution (freedom from religion). That can fuck back off to the intellectual shithole it crawled out of, and your theocracy-loving, democracy-hating ass can go there with it.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 12, 2018, 07:17:40 pm
You mean those pro-Christian policies that turn back (largely Catholic) people from Latin America? You mean those pro-Christian policies that want to discriminate against immigrants when the Bible explicitly commands you to treat the sojourner in your land as if he were of your own people?

The Republican Party has been, for quite some time, the party of Christian theocracy, in direct contradiction to the very first guarantee of the First Amendment to the US Constitution (freedom from religion). That can fuck back off to the intellectual shithole it crawled out of, and your theocracy-loving, democracy-hating ass can go there with it.

Well to become part of Israel, in the Old Testament, the immigrants had to assimilate by converting. Similarly Immigrants to the US must assimilate into American culture and they must come here legally. Ancient Israel had immigration laws and so does the United States. And also there are already a bunch of legal American’s of Hispanic Catholic descent from Puerto Rico and also due to the US gaining Florida, and territories from Mexico in the Mexican American War.

The First Amendment does guarantee freedom of religion, but it does not say that the government cannot promote Christianity. It does prevents any particular sect of Christianity from being established as a state religion, but that is different from the myth of separation of Church and state. In fact at the time the First Amendment was written, the states had anti blasphemy laws on their charters.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: dpareja on August 12, 2018, 09:51:47 pm
See Leviticus 19 and Deuteronomy 10 regarding the injunction to treat sojourners as your own.

The First Amendment first guarantees freedom from religion, and then, secondarily, freedom of religion. (It would have been easy to write it the other way around, but it isn't written that way.) It absolutely means the government cannot promote Christianity, or any sect thereof, or any other religion, or religion generally (or irreligion). Furthermore, one of the US's oldest treaties, which was ratified unanimously by the Senate (23-0, 9 not voting (https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/5-1/s8), so even over the required two-thirds if that had to be an absolute matter) includes in it a clause explicitly stating that the US is not a Christian nation. Many of the people who wrote that document were from Virginia, which itself was actually aggressively secular, and, yes, it was intended to erect a wall of separation between church and state so that no religion could use the government to oppress other religions.

The US Supreme Court has indeed held that Jefferson's writings (in particular, his letter to the Danbury Baptists, who were being persecuted in Connecticut as they were not Congregationalists) "may be accepted as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the [First] Amendment." (Reynolds v. U.S., 1879.) However, at the time those amendments were understood only to apply to acts of Congress, not the states, and it would not be until well after the passage of the Fourteenth Amendment (since the Privileges and Immunities Clause, which should have immediately applied all those provisions to the states, was instead ignored in the Slaughter-House Cases) that such state laws, including anti-blasphemy laws, were struck down.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 13, 2018, 05:18:23 am
See Leviticus 19 and Deuteronomy 10 regarding the injunction to treat sojourners as your own.

The First Amendment first guarantees freedom from religion, and then, secondarily, freedom of religion. (It would have been easy to write it the other way around, but it isn't written that way.) It absolutely means the government cannot promote Christianity, or any sect thereof, or any other religion, or religion generally (or irreligion). Furthermore, one of the US's oldest treaties, which was ratified unanimously by the Senate (23-0, 9 not voting (https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/5-1/s8), so even over the required two-thirds if that had to be an absolute matter) includes in it a clause explicitly stating that the US is not a Christian nation. Many of the people who wrote that document were from Virginia, which itself was actually aggressively secular, and, yes, it was intended to erect a wall of separation between church and state so that no religion could use the government to oppress other religions.

The US Supreme Court has indeed held that Jefferson's writings (in particular, his letter to the Danbury Baptists, who were being persecuted in Connecticut as they were not Congregationalists) "may be accepted as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the [First] Amendment." (Reynolds v. U.S., 1879.) However, at the time those amendments were understood only to apply to acts of Congress, not the states, and it would not be until well after the passage of the Fourteenth Amendment (since the Privileges and Immunities Clause, which should have immediately applied all those provisions to the states, was instead ignored in the Slaughter-House Cases) that such state laws, including anti-blasphemy laws, were struck down.

[10]“Neither shalt thou gather the bunches and grapes that fall down in thy vineyard, but shalt leave them to the poor and the strangers to take. I am the Lord your God.” Dhouy-Rheims Latin Vulgate Translation

“He doth judgment to the fatherless and the widow, loveth the stranger, and giveth him food and raiment. [19] And do you therefore love strangers, because you also were strangers in the land of Egypt. [20]”

Those verses do say to love strangers and give food and clothing to them, but it does not have anything to do with immigration policy. While God commanded the Isrealites to treat strangers well, they were still considered foreigners, and God did not command the Israelites to have the strangers become citizens of Israel. Plus there wasn’t strict border enforcement back then, so it wasn’t illegal for wandering strangers to wander into Israel, so the strangers did not break any laws.

As I said freedom of and from religion does not mean that the government cannot promote Christianity. It just means that the government cannot have an establishment of any particular sect over another or oppress other religions. And while the treaty of Tripoli says that the government is not founded on a religion that does not mean that the US is not a Christian nation because at the time the vast majority of Americans were Christian.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: dpareja on August 13, 2018, 05:41:26 am
Freedom from (and of) religion means the government cannot promote any religion, or religion generally. Otherwise, those not subscribing to religion, or the particular religion being promoted, are necessarily being oppressed by being forced to subsidize the promotion of views with which they disagree. (This is also why automatic tax exemptions for religious organizations should be unconstitutional--they aren't, but as far as I'm concerned that's completely incorrect, and the millions of atheists in the US should be very rightly aggrieved at the fact that religions are freeloading off their backs.)

As for the US not being a Christian nation, if it wasn't founded on Christianity (which it wasn't) nor has established some form of Christianity as a national religion (which it hasn't and cannot), it's not a Christian nation. It's a secular one, whatever the religious demographics of its populace.

As for the bits about immigration, it still commands that said wanderers be treated well, which is exactly not the case with what we see in the US right now. Turning them back at the border would be one thing (though in some cases a particularly atrocious one, given that many are fleeing violence between gangs empowered by the criminalization of various drugs, largely pushed for by the US); locking them up and separating families (in some cases beyond any realistic hope of reuniting them) is another entirely. (Especially when they deny them due process* and attempt to deport them while they're fighting a court case to remain (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/immigration/judge-halts-mother-daughter-deportation-threatens-to-hold-sessions-in-contempt/2018/08/09/a23a0580-9bd6-11e8-8d5e-c6c594024954_story.html?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.64db6aaf5d70).)

*You may object that this applies only to citizens, and maybe permanent residents and legal immigrants, but if that's what they'd meant, they'd have said that. Both the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments apply their due process clauses to "persons", in contrast to, say, that same Fourteenth Amendment, which specifically only includes citizens in its provision regarding voting rights and reduction in House representation (never enforced, unfortunately; its enforcement was one of the demands presented by Bayard Rustin at the March on Washington).
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 13, 2018, 06:15:36 am
Freedom from (and of) religion means the government cannot promote any religion, or religion generally. Otherwise, those not subscribing to religion, or the particular religion being promoted, are necessarily being oppressed by being forced to subsidize the promotion of views with which they disagree. (This is also why automatic tax exemptions for religious organizations should be unconstitutional--they aren't, but as far as I'm concerned that's completely incorrect, and the millions of atheists in the US should be very rightly aggrieved at the fact that religions are freeloading off their backs.)

As for the US not being a Christian nation, if it wasn't founded on Christianity (which it wasn't) nor has established some form of Christianity as a national religion (which it hasn't and cannot), it's not a Christian nation. It's a secular one, whatever the religious demographics of its populace.

As for the bits about immigration, it still commands that said wanderers be treated well, which is exactly not the case with what we see in the US right now. Turning them back at the border would be one thing (though in some cases a particularly atrocious one, given that many are fleeing violence between gangs empowered by the criminalization of various drugs, largely pushed for by the US); locking them up and separating families (in some cases beyond any realistic hope of reuniting them) is another entirely. (Especially when they deny them due process* and attempt to deport them while they're fighting a court case to remain (https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/immigration/judge-halts-mother-daughter-deportation-threatens-to-hold-sessions-in-contempt/2018/08/09/a23a0580-9bd6-11e8-8d5e-c6c594024954_story.html?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.64db6aaf5d70).)

*You may object that this applies only to citizens, and maybe permanent residents and legal immigrants, but if that's what they'd meant, they'd have said that. Both the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments apply their due process clauses to "persons", in contrast to, say, that same Fourteenth Amendment, which specifically only includes citizens in its provision regarding voting rights and reduction in House representation (never enforced, unfortunately; its enforcement was one of the demands presented by Bayard Rustin at the March on Washington).

1. It means that the government cannot interfere with religious practices, meaning that it is actually in violation of religious freedom to not allow teachers and students to pray in public schools, or prevent towns and cities from having nativity scenes on public property. The promotion of Christianity does not violate non Christians freedoms because they are not being forced to convert.

2. The treaty specifically said that the form of government was not founded on Christianity. However that does not mean that the nation was not founded on Christianity. In fact as I said before the Declaration of Independence says that the concept of inalienable rights comes from God.

3. As I said, Ancient Israel did not have border enforcement like countries do today so the wanderers back then were not breaking any laws. Trump ended the policy of separating families. Today there is border enforcement and Immigration laws so Immigrants must come to the US LEGALLY. You have to put the Bible verses into proper context. It said to give strangers food and clothes.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 13, 2018, 08:13:36 am
By that logic the USSR was a Christian Nation because the majority of its citizens were Christian!
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: dpareja on August 13, 2018, 02:12:52 pm
1. Nothing stops students from praying in school. That is absolutely still allowed and if you say it isn't, you're at best uninformed. What it does mean is that public property (money, lands, etc) cannot be used to endorse religion, which means public school teachers, being government employees and paid out of the public purse, cannot endorse religion while in their role as teachers. It also means public lands cannot be used for nativity scenes unless all religious and nonreligious displays are allowed. While I will concede that non-Christians are not being forced to convert, they are nonetheless being imposed upon by being forced to subsidize views with which they disagree.

2. Which is what matters. The government (not the "form of government" as you claimed) is secular, whatever the religious views of the populace.

3. Trump also started the policy of zero-tolerance family separation and only stopped after a few months because the courts ripped him (and Jefferson (as in Davis) Beauregard Sessions III) a new one.

Not only are you trying to defend factual errors and reprehensible actions, you're not even doing it well.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 13, 2018, 03:15:39 pm
1. Nothing stops students from praying in school. That is absolutely still allowed and if you say it isn't, you're at best uninformed. What it does mean is that public property (money, lands, etc) cannot be used to endorse religion, which means public school teachers, being government employees and paid out of the public purse, cannot endorse religion while in their role as teachers. It also means public lands cannot be used for nativity scenes unless all religious and nonreligious displays are allowed. While I will concede that non-Christians are not being forced to convert, they are nonetheless being imposed upon by being forced to subsidize views with which they disagree.

2. Which is what matters. The government (not the "form of government" as you claimed) is secular, whatever the religious views of the populace.

3. Trump also started the policy of zero-tolerance family separation and only stopped after a few months because the courts ripped him (and Jefferson (as in Davis) Beauregard Sessions III) a new one.

Not only are you trying to defend factual errors and reprehensible actions, you're not even doing it well.

1. Nothing stops students from praying in school. That is absolutely still allowed and if you say it isn't, you're at best uninformed. What it does mean is that public property (money, lands, etc) cannot be used to endorse religion, which means public school teachers, being government employees and paid out of the public purse, cannot endorse religion while in their role as teachers. It also means public lands cannot be used for nativity scenes unless all religious and nonreligious displays are allowed. While I will concede that non-Christians are not being forced to convert, they are nonetheless being imposed upon by being forced to subsidize views with which they disagree.

2. Which is what matters. The government (not the "form of government" as you claimed) is secular, whatever the religious views of the populace.

3. Trump also started the policy of zero-tolerance family separation and only stopped after a few months because the courts ripped him (and Jefferson (as in Davis) Beauregard Sessions III) a new one.

Not only are you trying to defend factual errors and reprehensible actions, you're not even doing it well.

1. But that is violating the teacher’s freedom of religion. Teachers leading students in prayers and promoting Christianity does not violate other people’s freedoms because prayer can be optional. And usually other religious displays are allowed, it is just that the towns that have nativity scenes are majority Christian, so there aren’t many people of other religions that display their religions in the public square.

2. But that does not ban members of the government from promoting religion as long as one sect does not dominate over another.

3. Well the reason why there was the unfortunate family seperation is because it was Trump’s only choice because when arresting the illegal immigrants, the adults are put into the American justice system and are therefore put into adult detention centers. It wouldn’t make sense and would be crueler  to put children into adult detention centers. To reunite the families, the solution is to speed up the detention process so that the families are reunited upon deportation. And from Brietbart news

“Obama and Democrats Incentivized This ‘Family Separation’
Until Obama came along, illegal border crossings primarily involved young, single men. Obama incentivized the idea of dragging minor children along on this dangerous journey (where many children are sexually assaulted) through his policy of  “catch and release.”

Once word got out that illegals with small children would be let loose into America, the number of children crossing the border exploded.

Again, the last thing decent people want is for the American government to further incentivize the cruel act of bringing small children along on this brutal trip across the border, which is exactly what Trump is hoping to stop with his zero tolerance policy.”

So again, his policy stopped the incentive for illegal aliens to drag them dragging them on a brutal dangerous journey walking them across miles and miles of desert where they could die on the way. So it is the illegal aliens who are the ones that are guilty of child abuse for bringing the children on a cruel brutal journey across the desert.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 13, 2018, 03:46:00 pm
It's not violating freedom of religion, you can be whatever religion you please. It's called being professional. If you're there to bloody teach, you teach. You aren't being paid to proselytise. If you are a teacher you are being paid to do a very specific job, teach the curriculum. Teacher's are also in a position of unique power, you are creating a textbook hostile environment for students who don't share the teacher's views if they use their job as a soap box. The "freedom not to participate" is just the freedom to know that you'll be excluded, at best, if you don't share the teacher's religion.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 13, 2018, 04:58:28 pm
It's not violating freedom of religion, you can be whatever religion you please. It's called being professional. If you're there to bloody teach, you teach. You aren't being paid to proselytise. If you are a teacher you are being paid to do a very specific job, teach the curriculum. Teacher's are also in a position of unique power, you are creating a textbook hostile environment for students who don't share the teacher's views if they use their job as a soap box. The "freedom not to participate" is just the freedom to know that you'll be excluded, at best, if you don't share the teacher's religion.

But it violates the right of public prayer. It is a greater violation of rights for the teacher to not be allowed to pray, than it is for a student not participating in a classroom prayer because at worst they will have to wait throughout the prayer.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 13, 2018, 05:20:29 pm
It's not violating freedom of religion, you can be whatever religion you please. It's called being professional. If you're there to bloody teach, you teach. You aren't being paid to proselytise. If you are a teacher you are being paid to do a very specific job, teach the curriculum. Teacher's are also in a position of unique power, you are creating a textbook hostile environment for students who don't share the teacher's views if they use their job as a soap box. The "freedom not to participate" is just the freedom to know that you'll be excluded, at best, if you don't share the teacher's religion.

But it violates the right of public prayer. It is a greater violation of rights for the teacher to not be allowed to pray, than it is for a student not participating in a classroom prayer because at worst they will have to wait throughout the prayer.
You OK with a Muslim leading a class of American kids to prayer?

Still OK if the teacher is well liked and charismatic enough that a majority of kids in the class ditch Christianity to become Muslims and pray with their teacher towards Mecca?
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 13, 2018, 05:26:35 pm
It's not violating freedom of religion, you can be whatever religion you please. It's called being professional. If you're there to bloody teach, you teach. You aren't being paid to proselytise. If you are a teacher you are being paid to do a very specific job, teach the curriculum. Teacher's are also in a position of unique power, you are creating a textbook hostile environment for students who don't share the teacher's views if they use their job as a soap box. The "freedom not to participate" is just the freedom to know that you'll be excluded, at best, if you don't share the teacher's religion.

But it violates the right of public prayer. It is a greater violation of rights for the teacher to not be allowed to pray, than it is for a student not participating in a classroom prayer because at worst they will have to wait throughout the prayer.
You OK with a Muslim leading a class of American kids to prayer?

Still OK if the teacher is well liked and charismatic enough that a majority of kids in the class ditch Christianity to become Muslims and pray with their teacher towards Mecca?

Well it isn’t that likely that a Muslim teacher would convert the students to Islam. I would be ok with the Muslim teacher leading Muslim students in prayer.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 13, 2018, 10:53:47 pm
Maybe you haven't noticed but Christianity is declining, particularly in the west but Islam is growing worldwide. Still down with that?
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: dpareja on August 13, 2018, 11:12:50 pm
Once again, Jakey-boy proves that he has no fucking clue what freedom from religion, or freedom of religion, means.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: davedan on August 13, 2018, 11:39:20 pm
It's not violating freedom of religion, you can be whatever religion you please. It's called being professional. If you're there to bloody teach, you teach. You aren't being paid to proselytise. If you are a teacher you are being paid to do a very specific job, teach the curriculum. Teacher's are also in a position of unique power, you are creating a textbook hostile environment for students who don't share the teacher's views if they use their job as a soap box. The "freedom not to participate" is just the freedom to know that you'll be excluded, at best, if you don't share the teacher's religion.

But it violates the right of public prayer. It is a greater violation of rights for the teacher to not be allowed to pray, than it is for a student not participating in a classroom prayer because at worst they will have to wait throughout the prayer.
You OK with a Muslim leading a class of American kids to prayer?

Still OK if the teacher is well liked and charismatic enough that a majority of kids in the class ditch Christianity to become Muslims and pray with their teacher towards Mecca?

Well it isn’t that likely that a Muslim teacher would convert the students to Islam. I would be ok with the Muslim teacher leading Muslim students in prayer.

No, the Muslim teacher is praying in public leading his students in prayer. The other students are free to participate or not participate in the prayer, whether muslim or otherwise.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 14, 2018, 07:42:07 am
Maybe you haven't noticed but Christianity is declining, particularly in the west but Islam is growing worldwide. Still down with that?

Well the parents of the students will be able to prevent their kids from converting to Islam.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 14, 2018, 07:55:29 am
Maybe you haven't noticed but Christianity is declining, particularly in the west but Islam is growing worldwide. Still down with that?

Well the parents of the students will be able to prevent their kids from converting to Islam.
You mean petition the school board to prevent the Mullah from converting their kids? Yeah that's what I thought. Hypocrite.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 14, 2018, 07:59:15 am
Maybe you haven't noticed but Christianity is declining, particularly in the west but Islam is growing worldwide. Still down with that?

Well the parents of the students will be able to prevent their kids from converting to Islam.
You mean petition the school board to prevent the Mullah from converting their kids? Yeah that's what I thought. Hypocrite.

The parents can tell their kids that Islam is a horrible religion that treats women horribly and has a bunch of horrible rules, and that will dissuade the kids from converting.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 14, 2018, 08:02:00 am
Maybe you haven't noticed but Christianity is declining, particularly in the west but Islam is growing worldwide. Still down with that?

Well the parents of the students will be able to prevent their kids from converting to Islam.
You mean petition the school board to prevent the Mullah from converting their kids? Yeah that's what I thought. Hypocrite.

The parents can tell their kids that Islam is a horrible religion that treats women horribly and has a bunch of horrible rules, and that will dissuade the kids from converting.
You converted to a religion which treats women horribly and has a bunch of horrible rules and that worked pretty well!
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 14, 2018, 08:16:00 am
Maybe you haven't noticed but Christianity is declining, particularly in the west but Islam is growing worldwide. Still down with that?

Well the parents of the students will be able to prevent their kids from converting to Islam.
You mean petition the school board to prevent the Mullah from converting their kids? Yeah that's what I thought. Hypocrite.

The parents can tell their kids that Islam is a horrible religion that treats women horribly and has a bunch of horrible rules, and that will dissuade the kids from converting.
You converted to a religion which treats women horribly and has a bunch of horrible rules and that worked pretty well!

Christianity does not treat women horribly. It doesn’t force women to cover their heads, or permit wife beating. And Christianity does not have horrible rules. Christians can pray anytime, not the rigid 5 times a day. The main rules of Christianity is to worship God, pray to him, go to Church, be a good person, and to save sex till heterosexual marriage. Islam has a bigger list of rules, as well as dietary restrictions such as not being allowed to eat pork.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: dpareja on August 14, 2018, 10:25:57 am
Any religion in which women who have dedicated their lives to the service of its organization are used for nearly-unpaid domestic labour and often sex slaves does not get to claim to be at all good to women.

And let's not forget the pathetic hypocrisy of forcing those women to get abortions while also claiming Humanae vitae to be some sort of holy writ.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 14, 2018, 11:11:51 am
Any religion in which women who have dedicated their lives to the service of its organization are used for nearly-unpaid domestic labour and often sex slaves does not get to claim to be at all good to women.

And let's not forget the pathetic hypocrisy of forcing those women to get abortions while also claiming Humanae vitae to be some sort of holy writ.

Women are not sex slaves under Christianity. True Christians have loving consensual marriages and both parents fulfill their roles in raising the children.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: dpareja on August 14, 2018, 11:23:01 am
Oh for fuck's sake I was referring to nuns, not lay women.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 14, 2018, 12:36:54 pm
Oh for fuck's sake I was referring to nuns, not lay women.

Nuns have an important role in the Church  working for the church and in the community being involved in charity and caring for the sick. They get to live in nice monasteries.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: dpareja on August 14, 2018, 01:45:05 pm
Oh for fuck's sake I was referring to nuns, not lay women.

Nuns have an important role in the Church  working for the church and in the community being involved in charity and caring for the sick. They get to live in nice monasteries.

And work as near-unpaid labour, and in some cases get raped and forced to have abortions.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 14, 2018, 03:17:56 pm
Oh for fuck's sake I was referring to nuns, not lay women.

Nuns have an important role in the Church  working for the church and in the community being involved in charity and caring for the sick. They get to live in nice monasteries.

And work as near-unpaid labour, and in some cases get raped and forced to have abortions.

Yes they don’t have much money because of their vows of poverty. But the nice monasteries they live in make up for it. And yes unfortunetely there has been a rape crisis that you made a thread about that was done in the Church after Vatican 2. But it wouldn’t happen if the Church had better enforcement on preventing sexual abuse which it will when a future noble person becomes Pope and fixes the Church’s problems and brings back the Latin Mass.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 14, 2018, 05:16:46 pm
It's abundantly clear from your approval of biblical and medieval marriage that you don't care about consent at all. It's also clear from your weird musings on your cousin and your stance on abortion that you have subscribed entirely to the whole Madonna/Whore dichotomy. In this worldview women are only temptresses or baby incubators. And your anti woman stance is mostly due to your devotion to your psuedo/quasi multiple worlds Catholicism.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 14, 2018, 05:55:51 pm
It's abundantly clear from your approval of biblical and medieval marriage that you don't care about consent at all. It's also clear from your weird musings on your cousin and your stance on abortion that you have subscribed entirely to the whole Madonna/Whore dichotomy. In this worldview women are only temptresses or baby incubators. And your anti woman stance is mostly due to your devotion to your psuedo/quasi multiple worlds Catholicism.

No I don't think that. I just think that my cousin should have put on clothes in the bathroom and not wear a towel in the house, and that babies should not get murdered.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 14, 2018, 10:54:07 pm
It's abundantly clear from your approval of biblical and medieval marriage that you don't care about consent at all. It's also clear from your weird musings on your cousin and your stance on abortion that you have subscribed entirely to the whole Madonna/Whore dichotomy. In this worldview women are only temptresses or baby incubators. And your anti woman stance is mostly due to your devotion to your psuedo/quasi multiple worlds Catholicism.

No I don't think that. I just think that my cousin should have put on clothes in the bathroom and not wear a towel in the house, and that babies should not get murdered.
Because it's her fault you got a stiffy!

Because it had nothing to do with the RCC's panic attack about the growing feminist movement in the 1960s. The bible being entirely silent on abortion, except for the bits where God does it by force.

Lets not forget the RCC's deafening silence on raped nuns being pressured into getting pregnancies terminated!

Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 15, 2018, 07:32:59 am
It's abundantly clear from your approval of biblical and medieval marriage that you don't care about consent at all. It's also clear from your weird musings on your cousin and your stance on abortion that you have subscribed entirely to the whole Madonna/Whore dichotomy. In this worldview women are only temptresses or baby incubators. And your anti woman stance is mostly due to your devotion to your psuedo/quasi multiple worlds Catholicism.

No I don't think that. I just think that my cousin should have put on clothes in the bathroom and not wear a towel in the house, and that babies should not get murdered.
Because it's her fault you got a stiffy!

Because it had nothing to do with the RCC's panic attack about the growing feminist movement in the 1960s. The bible being entirely silent on abortion, except for the bits where God does it by force.

Lets not forget the RCC's deafening silence on raped nuns being pressured into getting pregnancies terminated!

I didn’t get a stiffy, I was just shocked and revolted seeing her near nude. And yes the Church grew corrupt and hypocritical after Vatican 2 and the horrible nun rape crisis and forced abortions happened.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 15, 2018, 08:37:58 am
Oh bollocks to your obsession with Vatican 2. We had a Royal Commission into institutional abuse and the RCC'S kid-fuckery preceded it. Relatedly we all know what Catholic "disgust" has always thinly veiled.

You are convincing nobody, I doubt you've even truly convinced yourself but then I'm yet to be convinced that you aren't a troll who's not as clever as he thinks he is who hasn't got the memo that his Borat act passed the point of funny and went deep into sad and weird.

That point was "oink!"
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Askold on August 15, 2018, 10:26:33 am
It is important to note here that Jacob is weak in his faith. Like, really really weak.

He WANTS TO believe. He is quite outspoken about his faith and brags about it but just looking at his behaviour makes it clear that his faith is not on a strong foundation. He has gone back and forth in his faith, he has gone back and forth in his psychotic delusions about setting up a new king of Britain. All his talk about how he plans to convert others relies on them changing fate just as easily as he does. "Just tell 'em that X is the one true faith/king/whatever and they'll start to worship it/him/me" is pretty much all he knows about converting people. And it worked on him. All his conversions from one faith or king to another happened just because he googled something and went with the first result that came up.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 15, 2018, 12:52:36 pm
Oh bollocks to your obsession with Vatican 2. We had a Royal Commission into institutional abuse and the RCC'S kid-fuckery preceded it. Relatedly we all know what Catholic "disgust" has always thinly veiled.

You are convincing nobody, I doubt you've even truly convinced yourself but then I'm yet to be convinced that you aren't a troll who's not as clever as he thinks he is who hasn't got the memo that his Borat act passed the point of funny and went deep into sad and weird.

That point was "oink!"

As I said before, it started happening slightly before Vatican 2 when corrupt clergy started infiltrating the Church.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 15, 2018, 05:35:44 pm
Whatever helps you sleep at night Oink boy.

Like the last poster before you said your own faith is way too weak to inspire anybody else and your V2 mantra only reinforces thst fact.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 15, 2018, 05:45:51 pm
It is important to note here that Jacob is weak in his faith. Like, really really weak.

He WANTS TO believe. He is quite outspoken about his faith and brags about it but just looking at his behaviour makes it clear that his faith is not on a strong foundation. He has gone back and forth in his faith, he has gone back and forth in his psychotic delusions about setting up a new king of Britain. All his talk about how he plans to convert others relies on them changing fate just as easily as he does. "Just tell 'em that X is the one true faith/king/whatever and they'll start to worship it/him/me" is pretty much all he knows about converting people. And it worked on him. All his conversions from one faith or king to another happened just because he googled something and went with the first result that came up.

I briefly went through an Anglican phase for selfish reasons but I did serious penance when I converted back to Catholicism, and now my Catholic faith is stronger than before and I am sure that I will never leave Catholicism again.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: dpareja on August 15, 2018, 06:17:52 pm
Hopefully Bergoglio bites the dust soon (or resigns over his utter failure to deal with kiddie-fucking) and he's replaced by the next John XXIII who calls V3 and drags the Church kicking and screaming into modernity.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 15, 2018, 07:44:06 pm
Hopefully Bergoglio bites the dust soon (or resigns over his utter failure to deal with kiddie-fucking) and he's replaced by the next John XXIII who calls V3 and drags the Church kicking and screaming into modernity.

Or hopefully John XXIII restores the traditional Latin Mass and adopts a zero tolerance policy for kiddie fucking priests and those who cover them, defrocking them. You need ultra conservatism when punishing pedophiles because liberals are into tolerance given their support for the pedophile condoning religion of Islam. 
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: dpareja on August 15, 2018, 08:16:56 pm
No, liberals support freedom from (and of) religion. That doesn't mean we support all the practices of all religions. It's the conservatives who are effectively supporting Islam by wanting to set up theocracies, which will inevitably become Islamic states when Islam becomes the dominant religion, as it is on pace to become. (Atheism is growing faster, but starting from a much lower base.) Liberals want secular states, so that no religion can impose its views on anyone else.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 15, 2018, 08:23:47 pm
No, liberals support freedom from (and of) religion. That doesn't mean we support all the practices of all religions. It's the conservatives who are effectively supporting Islam by wanting to set up theocracies, which will inevitably become Islamic states when Islam becomes the dominant religion, as it is on pace to become. (Atheism is growing faster, but starting from a much lower base.) Liberals want secular states, so that no religion can impose its views on anyone else.

But the conservatives will stop Muslim immigration to stop Islam from becoming the dominant religion.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: dpareja on August 15, 2018, 09:00:46 pm
No, liberals support freedom from (and of) religion. That doesn't mean we support all the practices of all religions. It's the conservatives who are effectively supporting Islam by wanting to set up theocracies, which will inevitably become Islamic states when Islam becomes the dominant religion, as it is on pace to become. (Atheism is growing faster, but starting from a much lower base.) Liberals want secular states, so that no religion can impose its views on anyone else.

But the conservatives will stop Muslim immigration to stop Islam from becoming the dominant religion.

And how will they stop conversion, or Muslims already in a country from reproducing at a higher rate? (Another reason for secularism, particularly secular education: makes it more likely kids will realize their parents' religion is bullshit.)
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 16, 2018, 01:28:35 am
Hopefully Bergoglio bites the dust soon (or resigns over his utter failure to deal with kiddie-fucking) and he's replaced by the next John XXIII who calls V3 and drags the Church kicking and screaming into modernity.

Or hopefully John XXIII restores the traditional Latin Mass and adopts a zero tolerance policy for kiddie fucking priests and those who cover them, defrocking them. You need ultra conservatism when punishing pedophiles because liberals are into tolerance given their support for the pedophile condoning religion of Islam.
Ultra conservatives will do what they've always done. Defend their institutions, cover their arses, sweep ugliness under the carpet and punish the weak.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 16, 2018, 07:34:04 am
No, liberals support freedom from (and of) religion. That doesn't mean we support all the practices of all religions. It's the conservatives who are effectively supporting Islam by wanting to set up theocracies, which will inevitably become Islamic states when Islam becomes the dominant religion, as it is on pace to become. (Atheism is growing faster, but starting from a much lower base.) Liberals want secular states, so that no religion can impose its views on anyone else.

But the conservatives will stop Muslim immigration to stop Islam from becoming the dominant religion.

And how will they stop conversion, or Muslims already in a country from reproducing at a higher rate? (Another reason for secularism, particularly secular education: makes it more likely kids will realize their parents' religion is bullshit.)

They can promote Christianity more, as well as promoting family use to encourage more people to reproduce as well as stopping the promotion of birth control and condoms so that more babies are produced.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: dpareja on August 16, 2018, 10:18:40 am
Or, simpler, they can stop setting the precedent that it's OK to let religion govern society.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 16, 2018, 12:14:54 pm
Or, simpler, they can stop setting the precedent that it's OK to let religion govern society.

Or, simpler, they can stop setting the precedent that it's OK to let religion govern society.

But that will not stop Islam from growing, and Muslims from infiltrating the government. More reproduction and stopping Muslim immigration is the only way to stop Islam from growing.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: dpareja on August 16, 2018, 12:31:45 pm
A steadfast insistence on secular government and a clear message from the populace (of all religious bents) that religiously-motivated laws will not be tolerated will keep the government secular however it is "infiltrated". Attempting to establish a theocracy only leads to that theocracy being inherited by the next dominant religion.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 16, 2018, 12:45:11 pm
A steadfast insistence on secular government and a clear message from the populace (of all religious bents) that religiously-motivated laws will not be tolerated will keep the government secular however it is "infiltrated". Attempting to establish a theocracy only leads to that theocracy being inherited by the next dominant religion.

It won’t if Islam grows to a point where Muslims become the majority of the populace. That is why measures need to be taken to promote Christianity, stop Muslim immigration and encourage more reproduction.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 16, 2018, 04:02:02 pm
A steadfast insistence on secular government and a clear message from the populace (of all religious bents) that religiously-motivated laws will not be tolerated will keep the government secular however it is "infiltrated". Attempting to establish a theocracy only leads to that theocracy being inherited by the next dominant religion.

It won’t if Islam grows to a point where Muslims become the majority of the populace. That is why measures need to be taken to promote Christianity, stop Muslim immigration and encourage more reproduction.
Nah, secularism applies to all regardless of sect, that's sort of the point!
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 16, 2018, 05:42:42 pm
A steadfast insistence on secular government and a clear message from the populace (of all religious bents) that religiously-motivated laws will not be tolerated will keep the government secular however it is "infiltrated". Attempting to establish a theocracy only leads to that theocracy being inherited by the next dominant religion.

It won’t if Islam grows to a point where Muslims become the majority of the populace. That is why measures need to be taken to promote Christianity, stop Muslim immigration and encourage more reproduction.
Nah, secularism applies to all regardless of sect, that's sort of the point!

But if Islam grows, the Muslims will infiltrate government and replace secularism with Sharia. That is why Christianity, bans on Muslim immigration, and more reproduction is needed.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Eiki-mun on August 16, 2018, 05:46:24 pm
Why should we settle for Christian Sharia to avoid Muslim Sharia?
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 16, 2018, 06:06:28 pm
Why should we settle for Christian Sharia to avoid Muslim Sharia?

First of all, there is no such thing as Christian Sharia. Sharia law is the greatest threat to humanity, so Christianity is needed to save the west. It is better to live in a Christian dominated society than under Sharia law, because the Christians wouldn't be forcing you to convert, or forcing women to cover their heads.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 16, 2018, 06:12:15 pm
Why should we settle for Christian Sharia to avoid Muslim Sharia?

First of all, there is no such thing as Christian Sharia. Sharia law is the greatest threat to humanity, so Christianity is needed to save the west. It is better to live in a Christian dominated society than under Sharia law, because the Christians wouldn't be forcing you to convert, or forcing women to cover their heads.
Says you, Muslim fundamentalists are Abrahamic, anti democratic theocrats and so are you. Both of you derive your morality from cruel, iron-age patriarchies and your authority from beings for which there's no evidence of them even existing. Both groups also put a whole lot of effort into protecting powerful sexual predators.

Tomato, tomato!
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: dpareja on August 16, 2018, 09:13:28 pm
To phrase it another way: what makes a Christian theocracy any better than a Muslim theocracy?
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: davedan on August 16, 2018, 09:15:52 pm
Why should we settle for Christian Sharia to avoid Muslim Sharia?

First of all, there is no such thing as Christian Sharia. Sharia law is the greatest threat to humanity, so Christianity is needed to save the west. It is better to live in a Christian dominated society than under Sharia law, because the Christians wouldn't be forcing you to convert, or forcing women to cover their heads.

Moorish Spain was very tolerant. There are plenty of secular Muslims.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Eiki-mun on August 16, 2018, 09:42:39 pm
Why should we settle for Christian Sharia to avoid Muslim Sharia?

First of all, there is no such thing as Christian Sharia. Sharia law is the greatest threat to humanity, so Christianity is needed to save the west. It is better to live in a Christian dominated society than under Sharia law, because the Christians wouldn't be forcing you to convert, or forcing women to cover their heads.

Spain.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 17, 2018, 06:26:32 am
To phrase it another way: what makes a Christian theocracy any better than a Muslim theocracy?

It is better to live in a Christian dominated society than under Sharia law, because the Christians wouldn't be forcing you to convert, or forcing women to cover their heads.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Askold on August 17, 2018, 06:46:37 am
To phrase it another way: what makes a Christian theocracy any better than a Muslim theocracy?

It is better to live in a Christian dominated society than under Sharia law, because the Christians wouldn't be forcing you to convert, or forcing women to cover their heads.

Historically Christians have forced conversion on people of different faiths. Last I heard Ann Coulter was still demanding that Jews should be forced to convert into Christianity.

You yourself have promoted for raping people and don't think that this conflicts with your "Christian values."

Now, I'm from a country that has (one branch of) Christianity as state religion and even we realize that our laws should not be based on ANY religion. You don't force religion on people, if the only reason to forbid something is that it is against your faith then it is not something that you make a law about. Instead you will trust that those who share the faith feel the same way regardless of whether that thing is legal or not and know that you can't force those who DON'T share your faith to follow your rules.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 17, 2018, 07:04:57 am
To phrase it another way: what makes a Christian theocracy any better than a Muslim theocracy?

It is better to live in a Christian dominated society than under Sharia law, because the Christians wouldn't be forcing you to convert, or forcing women to cover their heads.

Historically Christians have forced conversion on people of different faiths. Last I heard Ann Coulter was still demanding that Jews should be forced to convert into Christianity.

You yourself have promoted for raping people and don't think that this conflicts with your "Christian values."

Now, I'm from a country that has (one branch of) Christianity as state religion and even we realize that our laws should not be based on ANY religion. You don't force religion on people, if the only reason to forbid something is that it is against your faith then it is not something that you make a law about. Instead you will trust that those who share the faith feel the same way regardless of whether that thing is legal or not and know that you can't force those who DON'T share your faith to follow your rules.

In Europe it was mainly pagans that Christians did forced conversions on but that was for the greater good of Western Civilization because it kept Europe unified under one religion and the pagans from the the barbarian lands were primitive and the Druids were evil people who performed human sacrifice.

And where did I promote raping people?
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Askold on August 17, 2018, 07:11:02 am
Your "let's make an heir for the guy who doesn't want to be a king" plan started with raping him.

Also, "yeah we did that but it doesn't count because X" is yet another goal post moving beyond the horizon.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 17, 2018, 07:14:46 am
Your "let's make an heir for the guy who doesn't want to be a king" plan started with raping him.

Also, "yeah we did that but it doesn't count because X" is yet another goal post moving beyond the horizon.

I soon realized that would be rape which is why I soon changed it to a forced masturbation, and then I realized that any forced marriage is null and void under Catholic Canon law, so I then changed it to kidnapping a child heir and grooming him or her to become King or Queen.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 17, 2018, 07:22:05 am
Your "let's make an heir for the guy who doesn't want to be a king" plan started with raping him.

Also, "yeah we did that but it doesn't count because X" is yet another goal post moving beyond the horizon.

I soon realized that would be rape which is why I soon changed it to a forced masturbation, and then I realized that any forced marriage is null and void under Catholic Canon law, so I then changed it to kidnapping a child heir and grooming him or her to become King or Queen.
Kidnapping a child and "grooming" him. How very Catholic.

Can you fuck the fuck off you fucking numpty?

Troll or serious, irrelevant at this point. Fuck. Off.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Askold on August 17, 2018, 11:23:11 am
Jesus Christ...

This just keeps getting worse.

And I haven't even gotten to the part where I point out that Jacobine here talked about subverting democracies and starting a war to take over much of the world and at the same time complains about Muslims because he fears they might do the same.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 17, 2018, 03:48:29 pm
Jesus Christ...

This just keeps getting worse.

And I haven't even gotten to the part where I point out that Jacobine here talked about subverting democracies and starting a war to take over much of the world and at the same time complains about Muslims because he fears they might do the same.

The difference is that the Muslims are plotting to take over the West which is NOT rightfully theirs while I am talking about restoring the throne of England to someone that rightfully theirs
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Eiki-mun on August 17, 2018, 03:54:28 pm
To phrase it another way: what makes a Christian theocracy any better than a Muslim theocracy?

It is better to live in a Christian dominated society than under Sharia law, because the Christians wouldn't be forcing you to convert, or forcing women to cover their heads.

Historically Christians have forced conversion on people of different faiths. Last I heard Ann Coulter was still demanding that Jews should be forced to convert into Christianity.

You yourself have promoted for raping people and don't think that this conflicts with your "Christian values."

Now, I'm from a country that has (one branch of) Christianity as state religion and even we realize that our laws should not be based on ANY religion. You don't force religion on people, if the only reason to forbid something is that it is against your faith then it is not something that you make a law about. Instead you will trust that those who share the faith feel the same way regardless of whether that thing is legal or not and know that you can't force those who DON'T share your faith to follow your rules.

In Europe it was mainly pagans that Christians did forced conversions on but that was for the greater good of Western Civilization because it kept Europe unified under one religion and the pagans from the the barbarian lands were primitive and the Druids were evil people who performed human sacrifice.

And where did I promote raping people?

Again, Spain. Muslims and Jews don't count as "pagan" even by the loosest definition. Or are you gonna try to tell me the Inquisition never happened? "Convert or die" is a thing with you Catholics.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 17, 2018, 09:27:32 pm
To phrase it another way: what makes a Christian theocracy any better than a Muslim theocracy?

It is better to live in a Christian dominated society than under Sharia law, because the Christians wouldn't be forcing you to convert, or forcing women to cover their heads.

Historically Christians have forced conversion on people of different faiths. Last I heard Ann Coulter was still demanding that Jews should be forced to convert into Christianity.

You yourself have promoted for raping people and don't think that this conflicts with your "Christian values."

Now, I'm from a country that has (one branch of) Christianity as state religion and even we realize that our laws should not be based on ANY religion. You don't force religion on people, if the only reason to forbid something is that it is against your faith then it is not something that you make a law about. Instead you will trust that those who share the faith feel the same way regardless of whether that thing is legal or not and know that you can't force those who DON'T share your faith to follow your rules.

In Europe it was mainly pagans that Christians did forced conversions on but that was for the greater good of Western Civilization because it kept Europe unified under one religion and the pagans from the the barbarian lands were primitive and the Druids were evil people who performed human sacrifice.

And where did I promote raping people?

Again, Spain. Muslims and Jews don't count as "pagan" even by the loosest definition. Or are you gonna try to tell me the Inquisition never happened? "Convert or die" is a thing with you Catholics.

The Inquisition was done because the Muslims invaded Christian Spain.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 17, 2018, 11:53:51 pm
To phrase it another way: what makes a Christian theocracy any better than a Muslim theocracy?

It is better to live in a Christian dominated society than under Sharia law, because the Christians wouldn't be forcing you to convert, or forcing women to cover their heads.

Historically Christians have forced conversion on people of different faiths. Last I heard Ann Coulter was still demanding that Jews should be forced to convert into Christianity.

You yourself have promoted for raping people and don't think that this conflicts with your "Christian values."

Now, I'm from a country that has (one branch of) Christianity as state religion and even we realize that our laws should not be based on ANY religion. You don't force religion on people, if the only reason to forbid something is that it is against your faith then it is not something that you make a law about. Instead you will trust that those who share the faith feel the same way regardless of whether that thing is legal or not and know that you can't force those who DON'T share your faith to follow your rules.

In Europe it was mainly pagans that Christians did forced conversions on but that was for the greater good of Western Civilization because it kept Europe unified under one religion and the pagans from the the barbarian lands were primitive and the Druids were evil people who performed human sacrifice.

And where did I promote raping people?

Again, Spain. Muslims and Jews don't count as "pagan" even by the loosest definition. Or are you gonna try to tell me the Inquisition never happened? "Convert or die" is a thing with you Catholics.

The Inquisition was done because the Muslims invaded Christian Spain.
"Johnny started it miss." Sandpit level morality right here.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Eiki-mun on August 18, 2018, 01:00:45 am
The Inquisition was done because the Muslims invaded Christian Spain.

Irrelevant.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Skybison on August 18, 2018, 01:25:34 am
Then why did they target Jews and Cathars?
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Askold on August 18, 2018, 01:47:02 am
How come Catholics some how "deserve" to own land that isn't theirs but Muslims don't? Especially since nowhere in Bible does it say that anything on Earth deserves to be owned by Christians? Sure, there is arguably the land where Jews came from but that's for Jews, not Christians.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 18, 2018, 06:42:31 am
Then why did they target Jews and Cathars?

According to wikipedia this is why Jews were targeted.

"the main justification the monarchy gave for formally expelling all Jews from Spain was the "great harm suffered by Christians (i.e., conversos) from the contact, intercourse and communication which they have with the Jews, who always attempt in various ways to seduce faithful Christians from our Holy Catholic Faith", according to the 1492 edict."

However the inquisitions were merciful and allowed Jews who converted to stay in Spain. The Cathars were targeted because they were heretics and therefore a cause of disunity in a Catholic Kingdom.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 18, 2018, 06:46:46 am
How come Catholics some how "deserve" to own land that isn't theirs but Muslims don't? Especially since nowhere in Bible does it say that anything on Earth deserves to be owned by Christians? Sure, there is arguably the land where Jews came from but that's for Jews, not Christians.

The Christians owned Spain first before the Muslims conquered it. And the Holy Land is rightful Christian land because it is where Christ and the early Christians came from and it was part of the Christian Byzantine Empire before the Muslims conquered it. That is why the Crusades were about liberating the Holy Land. That is why I proposed that after England allies with Israel in it's war to free the persecuted Christians in the Middle East, conquering the Levant and the Arabian Peninsula, should then conquer Israel so that the Catholics rule over the Holy Land.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Askold on August 18, 2018, 06:55:03 am
Jerusalem and Israel were owned by other people before the Byzantine Christians. Same goes for Spain as well.

You are very inconsistent in what you consider "rightfully owned."

Also, you can stop being apologetic for the Inquisition. Jews weren't forcefully converting anyone and it was the Christians who forced them to convert or die. It was a catch-22, Jews were told to stop practicing their faith and convert to Christianity and any who were found not to have done so were punished.

For some reason I doubt that you defend Muslims who have forced everyone in their region to convert to Islam.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 18, 2018, 10:01:20 am
Jerusalem and Israel were owned by other people before the Byzantine Christians. Same goes for Spain as well.

You are very inconsistent in what you consider "rightfully owned."

Also, you can stop being apologetic for the Inquisition. Jews weren't forcefully converting anyone and it was the Christians who forced them to convert or die. It was a catch-22, Jews were told to stop practicing their faith and convert to Christianity and any who were found not to have done so were punished.

For some reason I doubt that you defend Muslims who have forced everyone in their region to convert to Islam.

But the Christians did not take Israel or Spain from anyone, they were both under the Roman Empire which later converted to Christianity.

On the wikiepedia article on the Alhambra Decree(the expulsion of Jews from Spain), "The primary purpose was to eliminate their influence on Spain's large converso population and ensure they did not revert to Judaism." It was to prevent Jews who converted from reverting back. The Jews were given the option to convert or leave.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Askold on August 18, 2018, 02:06:26 pm
And if you think that is fair then you cannot object to Muslims forcefully converting Christians without being hypocritical.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 18, 2018, 03:30:01 pm
And if you think that is fair then you cannot object to Muslims forcefully converting Christians without being hypocritical.

But the contexts were different. As I said, the specific reason was a concern that Jews who converted to Christianity would convert back to Judaism. They were maintaining Christianity in an already Christian Land.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: dpareja on August 18, 2018, 04:22:30 pm
So if Muslims forcibly conquer some part of "Christian" Europe, make everyone there convert to Islam under threat of expulsion, and then also impose expulsion (or worse, say, the death penalty) for apostasy...

I mean, you seem to be of the opinion that the only legitimate way to change governments wholesale is military force, and that you can't do it by peaceful means.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 18, 2018, 05:37:11 pm
So if Muslims forcibly conquer some part of "Christian" Europe, make everyone there convert to Islam under threat of expulsion, and then also impose expulsion (or worse, say, the death penalty) for apostasy...

I mean, you seem to be of the opinion that the only legitimate way to change governments wholesale is military force, and that you can't do it by peaceful means.

That is difference since Europe is not rightfully theirs. In fact the Inqusition against the Muslims in Spain was in retaliation for their conquest of Spain.

And the reason why a military intervention is needed to restore the rightful heir to the thrones of England, Ireland, and Normandy, is because the people probably won’t vote on restoring the heirs to their thrones. The infiltration has to happen in the United States to change England’s government since as I said, the Queen can use her veto power to prevent the changing of the monarchy.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 18, 2018, 06:19:44 pm
Jerusalem and Israel were owned by other people before the Byzantine Christians. Same goes for Spain as well.

You are very inconsistent in what you consider "rightfully owned."

Also, you can stop being apologetic for the Inquisition. Jews weren't forcefully converting anyone and it was the Christians who forced them to convert or die. It was a catch-22, Jews were told to stop practicing their faith and convert to Christianity and any who were found not to have done so were punished.

For some reason I doubt that you defend Muslims who have forced everyone in their region to convert to Islam.

But the Christians did not take Israel or Spain from anyone, they were both under the Roman Empire which later converted to Christianity.

On the wikiepedia article on the Alhambra Decree(the expulsion of Jews from Spain), "The primary purpose was to eliminate their influence on Spain's large converso population and ensure they did not revert to Judaism." It was to prevent Jews who converted from reverting back. The Jews were given the option to convert or leave.
Christians were never more than a despised minority in Judea, just because your boy came from there doesn't mean the majority of Judeans ever folliwed his sect in the time the Romans had the run of the place.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Art Vandelay on August 18, 2018, 06:23:18 pm
Honestly, Jakeyboy, you're long overdue for new material. Much like your denim fetish, your second cousin's poorly covered vagina, your conspiracies to castrate yourself and whatever other shit you said that I wasn't paying attention to, all of this feudal revival bullshit has grown stale. Maybe you'd like to restore a nomadic warrior society to Central Asia for reasons, eh? That could be interesting. Or perhaps bring back prohibition so that the devoutly Catholic Italian Mafia can be restored to their rightful, God given place in American society, no? That would certainly be a breath of fresh air. Just pick something new, because it's safe to say everyone's sick of your opinions on English monarchs.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 18, 2018, 07:05:14 pm
Jerusalem and Israel were owned by other people before the Byzantine Christians. Same goes for Spain as well.

You are very inconsistent in what you consider "rightfully owned."

Also, you can stop being apologetic for the Inquisition. Jews weren't forcefully converting anyone and it was the Christians who forced them to convert or die. It was a catch-22, Jews were told to stop practicing their faith and convert to Christianity and any who were found not to have done so were punished.

For some reason I doubt that you defend Muslims who have forced everyone in their region to convert to Islam.

But the Christians did not take Israel or Spain from anyone, they were both under the Roman Empire which later converted to Christianity.

On the wikiepedia article on the Alhambra Decree(the expulsion of Jews from Spain), "The primary purpose was to eliminate their influence on Spain's large converso population and ensure they did not revert to Judaism." It was to prevent Jews who converted from reverting back. The Jews were given the option to convert or leave.
Christians were never more than a despised minority in Judea, just because your boy came from there doesn't mean the majority of Judeans ever folliwed his sect in the time the Romans had the run of the place.

But the Judeans were expelled from Judea after their treacherous rebellions against the Romans and Judea was renamed Palestine(the destruction of the Temple and defeat of Judea being foretold by Jesus). It was resettled by Romans who converted to Christianity when the Empire became Christian and then the Muslims invaded.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 18, 2018, 08:04:14 pm
Jerusalem and Israel were owned by other people before the Byzantine Christians. Same goes for Spain as well.

You are very inconsistent in what you consider "rightfully owned."

Also, you can stop being apologetic for the Inquisition. Jews weren't forcefully converting anyone and it was the Christians who forced them to convert or die. It was a catch-22, Jews were told to stop practicing their faith and convert to Christianity and any who were found not to have done so were punished.

For some reason I doubt that you defend Muslims who have forced everyone in their region to convert to Islam.

But the Christians did not take Israel or Spain from anyone, they were both under the Roman Empire which later converted to Christianity.

On the wikiepedia article on the Alhambra Decree(the expulsion of Jews from Spain), "The primary purpose was to eliminate their influence on Spain's large converso population and ensure they did not revert to Judaism." It was to prevent Jews who converted from reverting back. The Jews were given the option to convert or leave.
Christians were never more than a despised minority in Judea, just because your boy came from there doesn't mean the majority of Judeans ever folliwed his sect in the time the Romans had the run of the place.

But the Judeans were expelled from Judea after their treacherous rebellions against the Romans and Judea was renamed Palestine(the destruction of the Temple and defeat of Judea being foretold by Jesus). It was resettled by Romans who converted to Christianity when the Empire became Christian and then the Muslims invaded.
The Romans were an oppressive foreign regime, they were the ones that nailed your bloke to a tree remember?

Also Constantine made the Empire Christian in 306 AD, do you know how the acronym AD relates to Jesus? Anno Domini anyone, here-I'll make it easy for you. BC, before Christ.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 18, 2018, 09:00:26 pm
Jerusalem and Israel were owned by other people before the Byzantine Christians. Same goes for Spain as well.

You are very inconsistent in what you consider "rightfully owned."

Also, you can stop being apologetic for the Inquisition. Jews weren't forcefully converting anyone and it was the Christians who forced them to convert or die. It was a catch-22, Jews were told to stop practicing their faith and convert to Christianity and any who were found not to have done so were punished.

For some reason I doubt that you defend Muslims who have forced everyone in their region to convert to Islam.

But the Christians did not take Israel or Spain from anyone, they were both under the Roman Empire which later converted to Christianity.

On the wikiepedia article on the Alhambra Decree(the expulsion of Jews from Spain), "The primary purpose was to eliminate their influence on Spain's large converso population and ensure they did not revert to Judaism." It was to prevent Jews who converted from reverting back. The Jews were given the option to convert or leave.
Christians were never more than a despised minority in Judea, just because your boy came from there doesn't mean the majority of Judeans ever folliwed his sect in the time the Romans had the run of the place.

But the Judeans were expelled from Judea after their treacherous rebellions against the Romans and Judea was renamed Palestine(the destruction of the Temple and defeat of Judea being foretold by Jesus). It was resettled by Romans who converted to Christianity when the Empire became Christian and then the Muslims invaded.
The Romans were an oppressive foreign regime, they were the ones that nailed your bloke to a tree remember?

Also Constantine made the Empire Christian in 306 AD, do you know how the acronym AD relates to Jesus? Anno Domini anyone, here-I'll make it easy for you. BC, before Christ.

Actually the Romans only crucified Christ because Pontius Pilate was forced to by an angry mob instigated by the Pharisees. Jesus said to "render unto Caesar."

And Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor asked him, saying: Art thou the king of the Jews? Jesus saith to him: Thou sayest it. [12] And when he was accused by the chief priests and ancients, he answered nothing. [13] Then Pilate saith to him: Dost not thou hear how great testimonies they allege against thee? [14] And he answered him to never a word; so that the governor wondered exceedingly. [15] Now upon the solemn day the governor was accustomed to release to the people one prisoner, whom they would.

[16] And he had then a notorious prisoner, that was called Barabbas. [17] They therefore being gathered together, Pilate said: Whom will you that I release to you, Barabbas, or Jesus that is called Christ? [18] For he knew that for envy they had delivered him. [19] And as he was sitting in the place of judgment, his wife sent to him, saying: Have thou nothing to do with that just man; for I have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him. [20] But the chief priests and ancients persuaded the people, that they should ask for Barabbas, and take Jesus away.

[21] And the governor answering, said to them: Whether will you of the two to be released unto you? But they said, Barabbas. [22] Pilate saith to them: What shall I do then with Jesus that is called Christ? They say all: Let him be crucified. [23] The governor said to them: Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying: Let him be crucified. [24] And Pilate seeing that he prevailed nothing, but that rather a tumult was made; taking water washed his hands before the people, saying: I am innocent of the blood of this just man; look you to it. [25] And the whole people answering, said: His blood be upon us and our children.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 19, 2018, 01:17:17 am
You mean they tortured and killed someone for political convenience. Yeah, they're totes the heroes in this story!
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Askold on August 19, 2018, 01:37:57 am
You mean they tortured and killed someone for political convenience. Yeah, they're totes the heroes in this story!

That's totally how Jacobine here thinks as well. He's all "let's rape this guy and wage wars on our allies and nuke civilians for no reason other than conquest by sword!"

And he still keeps changing the goalposts.

How hard is it to say that "Yes, Islamic countries were totally correct when they executed Christians in their lands. After all, the crime they are accused of is converting away from Islam, which is the religion of the land." Or if he doesn't think that to be totally cool he could instead say something along the lines of "now I understand that torturing and executing people of other religions is not totally cool." ...Though the latter would require him not being a troll.

I really have to admire how dedicated he is in this silly business.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 19, 2018, 06:16:36 am
You mean they tortured and killed someone for political convenience. Yeah, they're totes the heroes in this story!

Well Pontius Pilate washing his hands indicates that he really was forced to against his will. While the Romans are not the heroes of the story, they are not the main villains either. The main villains are the Pharisees for they were the mastermind behind the Jesus. Judas Iscariot is another major villain. 
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 19, 2018, 06:19:46 am
You mean they tortured and killed someone for political convenience. Yeah, they're totes the heroes in this story!

That's totally how Jacobine here thinks as well. He's all "let's rape this guy and wage wars on our allies and nuke civilians for no reason other than conquest by sword!"

And he still keeps changing the goalposts.

How hard is it to say that "Yes, Islamic countries were totally correct when they executed Christians in their lands. After all, the crime they are accused of is converting away from Islam, which is the religion of the land." Or if he doesn't think that to be totally cool he could instead say something along the lines of "now I understand that torturing and executing people of other religions is not totally cool." ...Though the latter would require him not being a troll.

I really have to admire how dedicated he is in this silly business.

The Muslims took over Christian land in the Middle East from the Byzantine Empire during their conquests.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 19, 2018, 09:05:06 am
And all that Byzantine land was invaded by Rome beforehand. What the hell is your point?
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Askold on August 19, 2018, 09:38:32 am
And all that Byzantine land was invaded by Rome beforehand. What the hell is your point?
"It's OK when the people I associate with do bad things."
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 19, 2018, 04:30:24 pm
And all that Byzantine land was invaded by Rome beforehand. What the hell is your point?

The Roman Empire rightfully acquired the Middle Eastern Land in defensive wars against the Kingdom of Pontus and it became Christian Land when the Empire converted to Christianity.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Art Vandelay on August 19, 2018, 04:37:52 pm
And all that Byzantine land was invaded by Rome beforehand. What the hell is your point?

The Roman Empire rightfully acquired the Middle Eastern Land in defensive wars against the Kingdom of Pontus and it became Christian Land when the Empire converted to Christianity.

You have a very strange notion of a defensive war, I have to say.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 19, 2018, 05:07:41 pm
And all that Byzantine land was invaded by Rome beforehand. What the hell is your point?

The Roman Empire rightfully acquired the Middle Eastern Land in defensive wars against the Kingdom of Pontus and it became Christian Land when the Empire converted to Christianity.

You have a very strange notion of a defensive war, I have to say.
Hey, he thinks an invasion of the UK by the US is a defensive war. "BY ORDER OF A DENIM FETISHISING BERK, GOOD PEOPLE OF BRITAIN, YOU SHALL ALL BE RULED UNILATERALLY BY A BLOKE WOT YOU NEVER 'EARD OF. HAVE A NICE DAY."
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: dpareja on August 19, 2018, 05:25:30 pm
It's basically the same excuse you see from US hawks. All wars engaged in by our side are defensive, and anyone who fights us is an "enemy combatant" and we can do whatever we want to them.

We are good by definition, and by extension everything we do is good by definition, and by further extension everything we do is legitimate by definition. We cannot be justly held to account for anything.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 19, 2018, 05:32:23 pm
And all that Byzantine land was invaded by Rome beforehand. What the hell is your point?

The Roman Empire rightfully acquired the Middle Eastern Land in defensive wars against the Kingdom of Pontus and it became Christian Land when the Empire converted to Christianity.

You have a very strange notion of a defensive war, I have to say.

Well the Kingdom of Pontus attacked first.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Art Vandelay on August 19, 2018, 05:40:29 pm
After which, there was precious little defending and a not insignificant amount of conquering on the part of the Romans.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 19, 2018, 06:17:59 pm
After which, there was precious little defending and a not insignificant amount of conquering on the part of the Romans.

Because often in warfare you fight your enemies till you defeat them so that they are not a future threat.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: davedan on August 19, 2018, 06:45:04 pm
I didn't think Judea was part of the Kingdom of Pontus?

Also of course the Romans who controlled Judea were forced to do something against their will. It's not like they had the capacity to completely raze Jerusalem and actually did so not 50 years later.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 19, 2018, 07:27:22 pm
I didn't think Judea was part of the Kingdom of Pontus?

Also of course the Romans who controlled Judea were forced to do something against their will. It's not like they had the capacity to completely raze Jerusalem and actually did so not 50 years later.

Judea was part of the Hasmonean Kingdom before being under Roman control.

Pontius Pilate the prefect of Judea was surrounded by an angry mob while the Romans who razed Jerusalem in 70 AD came prepared from outside of Jerusalem.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 20, 2018, 12:42:36 am
Yeah and do you what an angry mob becomes when it hits a Roman shield wall?

Beefsteak tartar!
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 20, 2018, 07:28:51 am
Yeah and do you what an angry mob becomes when it hits a Roman shield wall?

Beefsteak tartar!

The mob probably outnumbered the Roman troops so Pilate and the troops may have become beefsteak tartar if they resisted.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Askold on August 20, 2018, 08:30:44 am
SO it's ok to murder innocent people if you get scared? Is that the point you are trying to make?
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 20, 2018, 10:06:56 am
SO it's ok to murder innocent people if you get scared? Is that the point you are trying to make?

Well it was Jesus's life vs his life and the life of his troops. He was in a tough situation.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 20, 2018, 04:33:19 pm
SO it's ok to murder innocent people if you get scared? Is that the point you are trying to make?

Well it was Jesus's life vs his life and the life of his troops. He was in a tough situation.
This was the same empire that tried to place a statue of their craziest Emperor, Caligula, inside the temple in Jerusalem and you reckon they'd have worried about a mob wanting to kill some idiot claiming to talk to gods? Not buying it!
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 20, 2018, 07:44:24 pm
SO it's ok to murder innocent people if you get scared? Is that the point you are trying to make?

Well it was Jesus's life vs his life and the life of his troops. He was in a tough situation.
This was the same empire that tried to place a statue of their craziest Emperor, Caligula, inside the temple in Jerusalem and you reckon they'd have worried about a mob wanting to kill some idiot claiming to talk to gods? Not buying it!

When they did that, they came prepared with troops and were not surrounded.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 20, 2018, 10:58:52 pm
SO it's ok to murder innocent people if you get scared? Is that the point you are trying to make?

Well it was Jesus's life vs his life and the life of his troops. He was in a tough situation.
This was the same empire that tried to place a statue of their craziest Emperor, Caligula, inside the temple in Jerusalem and you reckon they'd have worried about a mob wanting to kill some idiot claiming to talk to gods? Not buying it!

When they did that, they came prepared with troops and were not surrounded.
Any way you slice it, shitting their pants, no shits to give or just being shitty they don't come out of this smelling of roses, they smell of...something else.

Sewers! What did the Romans ever do for us?
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 21, 2018, 06:32:22 am
SO it's ok to murder innocent people if you get scared? Is that the point you are trying to make?

Well it was Jesus's life vs his life and the life of his troops. He was in a tough situation.
This was the same empire that tried to place a statue of their craziest Emperor, Caligula, inside the temple in Jerusalem and you reckon they'd have worried about a mob wanting to kill some idiot claiming to talk to gods? Not buying it!

When they did that, they came prepared with troops and were not surrounded.
Any way you slice it, shitting their pants, no shits to give or just being shitty they don't come out of this smelling of roses, they smell of...something else.

Sewers! What did the Romans ever do for us?

The Romans contributed a lot to Western Civilization. https://www.bartleby.com/essay/Contributions-to-Western-Civilization-Made-by-Ancient-FKCWXA4YVJ

After the fall of the Empire, the Catholic Church was the next contributor to Western Civilization.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 21, 2018, 07:50:05 am
SO it's ok to murder innocent people if you get scared? Is that the point you are trying to make?

Well it was Jesus's life vs his life and the life of his troops. He was in a tough situation.
This was the same empire that tried to place a statue of their craziest Emperor, Caligula, inside the temple in Jerusalem and you reckon they'd have worried about a mob wanting to kill some idiot claiming to talk to gods? Not buying it!

When they did that, they came prepared with troops and were not surrounded.
Any way you slice it, shitting their pants, no shits to give or just being shitty they don't come out of this smelling of roses, they smell of...something else.

Sewers! What did the Romans ever do for us?

The Romans contributed a lot to Western Civilization. https://www.bartleby.com/essay/Contributions-to-Western-Civilization-Made-by-Ancient-FKCWXA4YVJ

After the fall of the Empire, the Catholic Church was the next contributor to Western Civilization.
Also bloodsports and orgies, don't forget the orgies!
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Svata on August 21, 2018, 10:30:42 am
All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
(I am saddened, but not surprised that Jacob completely missed the Life of Brian reference)
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: dpareja on August 21, 2018, 10:35:19 am
Life of Brian is even more heretical than Holy Grail and will be banned.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 21, 2018, 05:19:27 pm
Life of Brian is even more heretical than Holy Grail and will be banned.
By you and whose army you bullshitting, delusional, incestuous little onanist?

Since you love 'em so much, enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlADJpNtS_s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDFZflAfhy0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UImFKFAWFZ8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_kKAeh6qyc

Oh, and a bonus-nothing to do with British comedy but a man has certain needs, right?

(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1tvryPFXXXXbNXFXXq6xXFXXXn/MCKIKI-Italian-hot-pants-of-peach-carry-buttock-female-ass-tight-foot-trousers-female-motion-cowboy.jpg_640x640.jpg)

E's not the future fascist overlord of Britain, e's a very sad little boy! Enjoy Jakey.
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: dpareja on August 21, 2018, 09:55:54 pm
Dude, I was mocking Jakey-boy there.

(Not that I don't appreciate Life of Brian clips.)
Title: Re: Trump’s presidency was prophezized by a book in the 1800s and the Bible!
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 21, 2018, 10:01:48 pm
Dude, I was mocking Jakey-boy there.

(Not that I don't appreciate Life of Brian clips.)
That's cool, mocking Jakey-boy is the resting state of the average FSTDT forumite since he appeared on the scene.

Which has not dissuaded him from trying to convert, marry and recruit said forumites into his madcap schemes.