Author Topic: Bitcoin Kingpin: "we lost all your money"  (Read 7579 times)

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Offline gyeonghwa

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Bitcoin Kingpin: "we lost all your money"
« on: March 02, 2014, 07:48:17 pm »
http://valleywag.gawker.com/bitcoin-kingpin-admits-everyones-money-is-gone-1533315083?utm_campaign=socialflow_gawker_facebook&utm_source=gawker_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

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Japan-based Mt.Gox CEO Mike Karpele—who may or may not be Chris Farley reanimated with the soul of Reddit—just copped to some very bad news: yes, he lost all your money.

We still don't know why all the money is gone, or where it went, but a combination of theft and titanic incompetence is likely. The bottom line of anyone who used the Mt.Gox exchange: your account balance is now zero.

This is what happens when you lack federal regulations.
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Bitcoin Kingpin: "we lost all your money"
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2014, 07:53:59 pm »
Now let's watch as dumbass libertarians try to spin this.

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Re: Bitcoin Kingpin: "we lost all your money"
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2014, 08:45:03 pm »
I did say from the very beginning that Bitcoins are an utterly fucking stupid idea. They're not only completely redundant and offer far less privacy (contrary to popular belief), but it was only a matter of time before this sort of thing happened and you lost all your money. I know I should probably feel sorry for everyone who lost all their money, but I just don't have it in me to feel bad for anyone stupid enough to buy into this nonsense in the first place.

Offline gyeonghwa

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Re: Bitcoin Kingpin: "we lost all your money"
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2014, 08:56:29 pm »
The Bitcoin Community (it's really a thing) has been trying to defend itself after this outfall claiming it's better than normal currency still despite the rampant greedy speculations. And it's ironic now they want federal protection now that they've fucked themselves over.
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Offline chitoryu12

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Re: Bitcoin Kingpin: "we lost all your money"
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2014, 09:32:01 pm »
Yes, clearly the money that only exists online, has a massively fluctuating exchange rate that changes as you perform a single division problem to find out how much something costs in Bitcoins, has little intrinsic value of its own and must be traded for actual fiat money before it's worthwhile, and is traded as a commodity more than as a currency is superior to everything else.

Pretty sure cowrie shells are superior to Bitcoin.
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Re: Bitcoin Kingpin: "we lost all your money"
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2014, 11:35:03 pm »
How shocking. If only there had been countless warnings from people who actually understand economics that this very thing was likely to happen. Or repeated instances of bit coin following a standard bubble and burst formula, and hilariously unstable market fluctuations that would send even the bravest stock broker running in the other direction. Or, you know, common sense.

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Offline I am lizard

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Re: Bitcoin Kingpin: "we lost all your money"
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2014, 02:20:03 am »
As a guy who spends his time under a rocks:
What are bit coins and why do libertarians get an erection from them?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2014, 02:49:50 am by I am lizard »

Offline Ironchew

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Re: Bitcoin Kingpin: "we lost all your money"
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2014, 02:22:46 am »
This is what happens when you lack federal regulations.

Bitcoin was designed with the intent of no centralized authority being able to "take control", so I don't see how regulations would have helped. The decentralized nature of Bitcoin and other currencies like it means that you have to have a passable knowledge of netsec and never, ever let anyone else access your wallet files unless you want the coins therein to go bye-bye.

Hate to say it, but rubes let other people handle their wallets for them and they got burned. There is always a tradeoff between security and convenience, and that tradeoff is readily apparent with cryptocurrencies.
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Offline chitoryu12

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Re: Bitcoin Kingpin: "we lost all your money"
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2014, 02:38:29 am »
As a guy who spends his time under a rocks:
What are bit coins and why are libertarians turned on by them?

This is the short version of a complicated answer.

Bitcoins, or BTC, are an electronic currency developed by an anonymous coder, meant to exist apart from government-owned money. They exist exclusively in the online world (though limited amounts of coins and bills have been made), and are meant to be transferred between accounts that are identified by a semi-random alphanumeric string. As of November last year, I think, about 33,000 online retailers and 1,000 actual physical stores accepted Bitcoins. They're popular among hipsters and libertarians because, in theory, they take currency out of the hands of the government and allow you to maintain your privacy.

To maintain security, every single transaction is recorded as a block, and the blocks are made into a blockchain that is basically the record of every transaction ever made with Bitcoins ever. Most people maintain a "wallet" that holds their Bitcoins, but others are Bitcoin miners who let their computers act as points to upload to the blockchain in return for earning some Bitcoins for their work. This requires their computers to maintain a copy of the blockchain, which is I believe around 15 gigabytes in size now. The blockchain is far too complex to hack and create Bitcoins, but people regularly get scammed or have their wallets compromised from poor security on their part or the part of others who maintain their money.

Bitcoin is basically loaded with problems out the yin-yang. For one, the exchange rate is so massively fluctuating that in the time it takes you to determine how much a particular item costs in Bitcoins, the dollar value of a Bitcoin will have changed. The collapse of Mt. Gox and the loss of all of the Bitcoins it was holding caused a 37% drop in the value of the currency. If this were something as prominent as the dollar, the United States economy would have collapsed.

Another problem is that the Bitcoin doesn't have a true value as currency. 33,000 online retailers and 1,000 stores sounds pretty big....until you think about the global scale. Only a tiny fraction of businesses accept Bitcoins, and they need to exchange them for their own native currency (usually American dollars) after receiving them. Bitcoins are only worth something in relation to their dollar equivalent, not as a currency themselves. It's common for Bitcoins to be traded as a commodity, rather than treated as a currency. But even Bitcoin selling isn't as profitable as it seems, as you need to find someone willing to give you real money in exchange for your funny money. Doesn't matter if you have $50,000 worth of Bitcoins if nobody wants to buy them from you.

Another problem is the mining itself. It sounds like it should be profitable, but there's a hard limit on how many millions of Bitcoins can ever be mined as part of a check on the system. In order to keep every Bitcoin from being mined near-instantaneously, it becomes harder and harder to mine Bitcoins as time goes on. At the beginning, you could easily acquire them before they had a large value and now you could sell them for a profit if you kept them. But as it gets harder to mine the currency, the cost of electricity for the mining begins to overtake it. Someone on another forum calculated how much he could make from Bitcoin mining with his desktop PC, and he found that he'd spend about $2.59 in power for $0.17 in Bitcoins. The only miners making a profit are the ones with very expensive, ruinously hot machines that do nothing but mine Bitcoins, and they need huge amounts of air conditioning as well to avoid overheating the whole house. You'll make more profit selling computers than mining with them. And it'll only get less profitable as time goes on.

Basically, Bitcoins are funny money. They have little to no intrinsic value of their own, and a tiny minority of retailers accept them. The wildly changing value of Bitcoins means that it's very easy for people to lose confidence in them, and the ease with which your money can literally disappear if a place like Mt. Gox goes down lowers confidence even more. And money, especially money without something tangible backing it, relies on confidence to exist. Bitcoin is essentially floating on nothing but positive thoughts right now, and it won't take a whole lot to topple it and render a lot of people very poor and very angry.

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Bitcoin was designed with the intent of no centralized authority being able to "take control", so I don't see how regulations would have helped.

That's the entire point. Bitcoin was designed so that no centralized authority would have control, and nobody could put regulations on it. And specifically because of that attempt at freedom, it's on extremely shaky ground. At best, Bitcoin is a commodity only worth its dollar value, a value that changes in literally seconds depending on how much people trust it. At worst, it's a fiat currency without enough trust by the people to keep it afloat in bad times.
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Offline Ironchew

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Re: Bitcoin Kingpin: "we lost all your money"
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2014, 02:46:54 am »
To be fair, most currencies have no intrinsic value. Even precious metals vary wildly in price -- there's a reason the U.S. went off the gold standard.
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Offline Cerim Treascair

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Re: Bitcoin Kingpin: "we lost all your money"
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2014, 02:49:02 am »
To be fair, most currencies have no intrinsic value. Even precious metals vary wildly in price -- there's a reason the U.S. went off the gold standard.

As a very good example, noted on Gold Rush:  Between this season and the prior season, gold went from $1600 per ounce... to $1200.  In a year.
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Offline The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist

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Re: Bitcoin Kingpin: "we lost all your money"
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2014, 03:00:37 am »
Bitcoin was designed with the intent of no centralized authority being able to "take control", so I don't see how regulations would have helped. The decentralized nature of Bitcoin and other currencies like it means that you have to have a passable knowledge of netsec and never, ever let anyone else access your wallet files unless you want the coins therein to go bye-bye.

Hate to say it, but rubes let other people handle their wallets for them and they got burned. There is always a tradeoff between security and convenience, and that tradeoff is readily apparent with cryptocurrencies.

Pretty sure the decentralization is what he was referring to when he mentioned the lack of regulation. Wallet security means nothing when the flaws lie in the currency's core concept. We're talking about a "currency" that lost half its value over the last few months. That's not a healthy market, and without centralization, it's only going to get worse.

The people who get involved in BtC literally have the same mindset as people who fall for pyramid schemes -- they hear something that sounds wonderful on the surface, don't bother doing further research, get high on a community that teaches them to feel smug and superior to anyone who isn't involved, and wind up screwing themselves over in the long run.

With all that said, this thread is now about hilarious bit coin mining rigs:









The dog presumably overheated and died moments later.



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Offline chitoryu12

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Re: Bitcoin Kingpin: "we lost all your money"
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2014, 03:12:48 am »
To be fair, most currencies have no intrinsic value. Even precious metals vary wildly in price -- there's a reason the U.S. went off the gold standard.

I mentioned fiat currencies in that post, and how they rely on nothing but confidence from the people to exist. The American dollar is strong because people view it as valuable, and thus continue to trade it for goods and services. It has literally nothing but the will of the people and the belief that it has value to give it worth.

If Bitcoin is a fiat currency instead of a commodity, then it likewise relies on trust in its value to stay afloat. And that's what will kill it: lack of trust. It already can't maintain its value to within $2 for 10 seconds, let alone a month. The loss of Mt. Gox caused a drop in its value that would ruin any country that used it as its national currency. The American dollar not only has fiat value, but there are regulations and federal institutions in place that can keep the value from collapsing if you breathe on it the wrong way. Bitcoin has none of that.
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Offline Dakota Bob

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Re: Bitcoin Kingpin: "we lost all your money"
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2014, 06:44:35 am »
Oh well. the real value is in Dogecoins, anyway.