Author Topic: Actual Landslide Victory for Macron  (Read 1814 times)

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Offline Kanzenkankaku

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Re: Actual Landslide Victory for Macron
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2017, 03:16:29 am »
The only people going "BUT HIS EMAILS" seem to be American Alt-Nazis.

And basically this was a case of someone breaking into a house, going through the owners mail, taking the stolen stuff to public and screaming "look at this! Maybe he has done something bad! Go through his letters and see! This is actually about ethics in gaming journalism!"

And then random Redditors who also post on Teh_Donnie go "I for one support freedom of speech and neutrality of press. It would be better if someone had hacke Le PEn as well but since we got this whistleblower now why don't we look at his emails and see if he did something wrong. Just playing the devil's advocate. Don't really get why you people seem so upset about this."

Yeah about the "BUT HIS EMAILS!" stuff.  Turns out Macron was one step ahead and planted fake emails for the Russian hackers to find.  Basically made Wikileaks out to be idiots is what he did.

Ironbite-hopefully this starts a trend to not trusting Wikileaks.

WikiLeaks has only ever leaked one thing that I can think of (the fake Macron emails that he planted in advance) that was inaccurate. So I still trust them largely, I have no clue why people think they're in with Russia. If it's just because they've leaked shit about Clinton than thats dumb, because I follow their twitter feed and they've taken to criticism of moves by Trump too, they're not on any one side other than "criticize the people in power and leak shit about them".

Offline Askold

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Re: Actual Landslide Victory for Macron
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2017, 03:39:25 am »
a) There were fake Macron emails that have been proven to have been modified by Russian users. In Russia.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/06/world/europe/emmanuel-macron-hack-french-election-marine-le-pen.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

Quote
By Saturday, a trail of digital crumbs appeared to tie the attack on Mr. Macron’s campaign to Russian hackers. Forensics specialists found that one of the leaked Excel documents from Mr. Macron’s campaign had been modified on a Russian version of Excel, and edited on Russian-language computers.

One document had last been modified by a Russian user named Roshka Georgiy Petrovich. Mr. Petrovich, 32, an employee of the Moscow-based Eureka CJSC, a Russian technology company, did not immediately return emails requesting comment. Eureka CJSC’s clients include several Russian government agencies.

b) Wikileaks has a history of not leaking stuff that goes against Russia's interests while leaking stuff that helps Russia.
https://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/6/14179240/wikileaks-russia-ties

http://www.salon.com/2017/01/07/donald-trump-julian-assange-and-russia-how-theyre-connected-and-how-they-changed-an-election/
This one is mainly about Trump but note that when the Panama papers came out and had basically dirt on loads and loads of people and companies Wikileaks chose to take that moment to defend Russia and claim that it was a US operation to make Russia look bad.
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Offline ironbite

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Re: Actual Landslide Victory for Macron
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2017, 09:01:28 am »
The only people going "BUT HIS EMAILS" seem to be American Alt-Nazis.

And basically this was a case of someone breaking into a house, going through the owners mail, taking the stolen stuff to public and screaming "look at this! Maybe he has done something bad! Go through his letters and see! This is actually about ethics in gaming journalism!"

And then random Redditors who also post on Teh_Donnie go "I for one support freedom of speech and neutrality of press. It would be better if someone had hacke Le PEn as well but since we got this whistleblower now why don't we look at his emails and see if he did something wrong. Just playing the devil's advocate. Don't really get why you people seem so upset about this."

Yeah about the "BUT HIS EMAILS!" stuff.  Turns out Macron was one step ahead and planted fake emails for the Russian hackers to find.  Basically made Wikileaks out to be idiots is what he did.

Ironbite-hopefully this starts a trend to not trusting Wikileaks.

WikiLeaks has only ever leaked one thing that I can think of (the fake Macron emails that he planted in advance) that was inaccurate. So I still trust them largely, I have no clue why people think they're in with Russia. If it's just because they've leaked shit about Clinton than thats dumb, because I follow their twitter feed and they've taken to criticism of moves by Trump too, they're not on any one side other than "criticize the people in power and leak shit about them".

....oh wow a moron.

Ironbite-haven't seen one of those that wasn't an Ultimate Dragon sock puppet in a while.

Offline Svata

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Re: Actual Landslide Victory for Macron
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2017, 10:51:11 am »
Be fair, Ironbite, Contrarian still comes around now and again.
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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Actual Landslide Victory for Macron
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2017, 10:15:04 pm »
....oh wow a moron.

Ironbite-haven't seen one of those that wasn't an Ultimate Dragon sock puppet in a while.

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Offline The_Queen

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Re: Actual Landslide Victory for Macron
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2017, 12:01:14 am »
The only people going "BUT HIS EMAILS" seem to be American Alt-Nazis.

And basically this was a case of someone breaking into a house, going through the owners mail, taking the stolen stuff to public and screaming "look at this! Maybe he has done something bad! Go through his letters and see! This is actually about ethics in gaming journalism!"

And then random Redditors who also post on Teh_Donnie go "I for one support freedom of speech and neutrality of press. It would be better if someone had hacke Le PEn as well but since we got this whistleblower now why don't we look at his emails and see if he did something wrong. Just playing the devil's advocate. Don't really get why you people seem so upset about this."

Yeah about the "BUT HIS EMAILS!" stuff.  Turns out Macron was one step ahead and planted fake emails for the Russian hackers to find.  Basically made Wikileaks out to be idiots is what he did.

Ironbite-hopefully this starts a trend to not trusting Wikileaks.

WikiLeaks has only ever leaked one thing that I can think of (the fake Macron emails that he planted in advance) that was inaccurate. So I still trust them largely, I have no clue why people think they're in with Russia. If it's just because they've leaked shit about Clinton than thats dumb, because I follow their twitter feed and they've taken to criticism of moves by Trump too, they're not on any one side other than "criticize the people in power and leak shit about them".

Seriously, read this. It is long and very informative.

To summarize, in the summer of 2015, according to Crowdstrike, cyber espionage groups closely aligned with Russian Military Intelligence, known as Fancy Bear and Cozy Bear, hacked the DNC, the DCCC, and John Podesta. This was a large-scale attack on these entities over the period of many months; it could not have been carried out by a few people. The information was then sifted through and organized so that it could be released to maximize damage to Secretary Clinton.

The entity claiming responsibility for the hacks was Guccifer 2.0. Guccifer 2.0 claimed that he lived in Romania, but evidence began to pile that he was in Russia and spoke little Romania. Additionally, evidence piled up that "he" was likely a group of people. "He" promised to publish the hacked documents on Wikileaks, and Wikileaks was happy to comply.

Now, Julian Assange claims to be an innocent recipient of the hacks and vehemently denies that the leaks were timed in such a way to hurt Clinton. That does not mesh with the facts. Shortly before the Democratic National Convention, Wikileaks released Emails from the primaries and negative of Bernie. In the last thirty days leading up to the general election, Wikileaks published 1,800-3,000 each day, dominating the news coverage. If transparency is the desired end, you release all the emails at once; if you want to hurt political opponents, you time it out to keep the story fresh. In the days following the election, Julian Assange alluded to wikileaks popularity in the final weeks of the 2016 election as evidence that the voters made an educated and informed decision, despite the fact he only released electronic documents hacked from Secretary Clinton.

And then this happened in France. Again, Fancy Bear was caught with his paw in the cookie jar. Again, Wikileaks published these documents. Again, only one candidate had the documents hacked and leaked. Again, the information was published at a time to do maximum damage (in the final hours before the French "Black Out" to catch a narrative and dominate conversations over the weekend). And again, the candidate that benefited from the link was a far-right nationalist that favored Putin, and whom Putin favored.

Newsflash to no one: Wikileaks is the mouthpiece of Russia to air dirty laundry about people Putin doesn't like.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 12:13:45 am by The_Queen »
Does anyone take Donald Trump seriously, anymore?

Offline Askold

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Re: Actual Landslide Victory for Macron
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2017, 01:03:41 am »
Reminder that these were hacks not leaks.

These were the equivalent of someone going into your house, taking photos of everything, copying your internet history, looting all your letters and then Wikileaks publishes it saying "Is there anything illegal here? We don't know but perhaps if you dig through the stuff we'll find something embarrassing!"

And I recently had an argument on Reddit with a guy insisting that "in the name of transparency" we should investigate this in case something illegal is discovered and that there is nothing suspicious in this. Of course he had the "in a perfect world the other candidates emails would have also been released" to say but am I really the only one who thinks that these hacks were a violation of privacy and nothing more? It would be one thing if someone in the party would come out and say that they did something illegal or if there was a court order to get the emails because of an investigation.

But this is just criminal and at best it's paparazzi bullshit to go dig into someone's emails "in the name of transparency."
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Kanzenkankaku

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Re: Actual Landslide Victory for Macron
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2017, 05:33:43 am »
Currently reading the suggested Times report. And I just checked and it seems that Former Director Comey is being offered a job by WL, wasn't Comey investigating the Trump-Russia accusations before losing his job?

Offline The_Queen

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Re: Actual Landslide Victory for Macron
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2017, 06:54:20 am »
Reminder that these were hacks not leaks.

These were the equivalent of someone going into your house, taking photos of everything, copying your internet history, looting all your letters and then Wikileaks publishes it saying "Is there anything illegal here? We don't know but perhaps if you dig through the stuff we'll find something embarrassing!"

And I recently had an argument on Reddit with a guy insisting that "in the name of transparency" we should investigate this in case something illegal is discovered and that there is nothing suspicious in this. Of course he had the "in a perfect world the other candidates emails would have also been released" to say but am I really the only one who thinks that these hacks were a violation of privacy and nothing more? It would be one thing if someone in the party would come out and say that they did something illegal or if there was a court order to get the emails because of an investigation.

But this is just criminal and at best it's paparazzi bullshit to go dig into someone's emails "in the name of transparency."

Right. I don't want to understate the severity of the hacks, but my wording was intended to reflect that this is different than most other foreign espionage hacks. Most of the time a foreign government snoops around in our computers, they just take a few files and fuck off. Russia hacked these files with the intent to leak them to the public to damage Secretary Clinton's and Emmanuel Macron's electability.

And yes, Comey was investigating the Trump-Russian ties when he was fired. Trump said Comey's firing was cause Comey was unfair to Clinton, but that doesn't mesh with reality. Trump praised Comey for his July 2016 statements on Hillary, for his reopening the case, cited Comey as a reason he won, and this is May and not January. A review of Trump also shows he has no respect for Secretary Clinton. However, like Yates and Bahara, Comey was looking too closely into the Trump campaign's Russian ties
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 07:04:03 am by The_Queen »
Does anyone take Donald Trump seriously, anymore?

Offline The_Queen

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Re: Actual Landslide Victory for Macron
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2017, 11:51:02 pm »
Currently reading the suggested Times report. And I just checked and it seems that Former Director Comey is being offered a job by WL, wasn't Comey investigating the Trump-Russia accusations before losing his job?

So, you've had a full day to read the links; what is your current opinion on the Russia-Wikileaks collusion in the French and American elections?
Does anyone take Donald Trump seriously, anymore?

Offline TheContrarian

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Re: Actual Landslide Victory for Macron
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2017, 02:50:35 am »
I'd say if you're going to play the victim about getting your shit hacked and displayed to the public, you'll probably get more sympathy if you weren't being investigated for having your own homebrew mail server just so you can get around FOIA requests.

"Nonono, all the incriminating materials you subpoena'd were conveniently accidentally deleted!"


"What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist."

Offline The_Queen

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Re: Actual Landslide Victory for Macron
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2017, 10:37:56 pm »
I'd say if you're going to play the victim about getting your shit hacked and displayed to the public, you'll probably get more sympathy if you weren't being investigated for having your own homebrew mail server just so you can get around FOIA requests.

"Nonono, all the incriminating materials you subpoena'd were conveniently accidentally deleted!"

Whataboutism, otherwise known as tu quoque. Hillary's use of a private email server does not in any way affect either (a) Russia's interference in our election or (b) Wikileaks pimping for Russia.

Of course, critical thinking and logical consistency are not your strong suits. You just make whatever flimsy appeal to hypocrisy you can, ignoring everything from context to severity. I think it must be easy to be so simple as to see the world in a stark binary of black-and-white where your side team is always the lesser-evil, if not always in the right. Nevertheless, I find the lack of nuance in your position to be a terrible curse, more so when you do not even realize your affliction. And I fully expect you to hurr about leftist hypocrisy in response to this post; my popcorn is already prepared.

As a side note, I am still waiting on a reply from Kanzenkankaku.
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Offline SomeApe

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Re: Actual Landslide Victory for Macron
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2017, 05:50:41 am »
Do not feed the troll. Just ignore him
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Offline Svata

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Re: Actual Landslide Victory for Macron
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2017, 06:28:01 am »
This forum likely would have died off in the time away from the main site without us playing with our chewtoys, SomeApe.
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Offline Kanzenkankaku

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Re: Actual Landslide Victory for Macron
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2017, 01:17:36 am »
I have no doubt after reading that article the hackers responsible were Russians. I find it possible that WL did know where it was coming from, but I don't blame them for releasing the E-Mails (Especially since we found out the DNC specifically chose to screw over Senator Sanders) and I can't really blame them for things that are out of their control like what is given to them. If they only receive documents about certain people, that's just what happens.

As for the French Election itself, I didn't know enough to really decide who the best candidate was, but good on France for picking the one they wanted to have in the end. I wish Mr. Macron well.