I present anti-Christian MRA theology

[Cataclysm]

This video series

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb_6v-JQ13Q

This video if you don't want to watch a 90 min lecture.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUxcgdKNDmI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUxcgdKNDmI</a>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/nov/27/young-women-earning-more-men

"According to official statistics released last week, the pay gap between men and women -- that barometer of shifting power between the sexes -- has quietly shrunk to a record low and among younger women has shot clearly into reverse. Women in their 20s now earn a solid 3.6% more on average than men their age, after narrowly overtaking them for the first time last year. The rise of the female breadwinner, it seems, was no blip, but the beginning perhaps of a social and sexual sea change."

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html

"according to a new analysis of 2,000 communities by a market research company, in 147 out of 150 of the biggest cities in the U.S., the median full-time salaries of young women are 8% higher than those of the guys in their peer group. In two cities, Atlanta and Memphis, those women are making about 20% more. This squares with earlier research from Queens College, New York, that had suggested that this was happening in major metropolises. But the new study suggests that the gap is bigger than previously thought, with young women in New York City, Los Angeles and San Diego making 17%, 12% and 15% more than their male peers, respectively. And it also holds true even in reasonably small areas like the Raleigh-Durham region and Charlotte in North Carolina (both 14% more), and Jacksonville, Fla. (6%)."

http://www.theladders.com/career-advice/why-men-stronger-professional-networks-than-women

This article says women are less likely to have connections.

"New research suggests that fewer women reach those jobs than men because they are less likely to hear about available positions from coworkers as early as their male counterparts.

"Both men and women tend to circulate the good news about job openings or opportunities when they hear about them. But looking at the quality of the job leads in terms of pay and prestige … women get poorer quality leads from other women," said Lisa Torres, a George Washington University sociology professor who studies the hiring and job-search process in corporations. "Men tend to be in the top positions in organizations so, structurally, they're in a position to hear about job openings or opportunities when they arrive, and circulate those to their networks.

...

While men hold 80 percent of senior management jobs, the gap in income is less severe. According to Huffman's review of 2000 census data, women in senior management earn salaries that trail men's by only 9 percent."

This also helps.

http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/02/top-10-college-majors-women-forbes-woman-leadership-education.html

As does this.

[VirtualStranger]

Wall of text

Let's play a little game I like to call "random portraits of business professionals"

1. Go to Google Image search.
2. Type "CEO", "Board of Directors" or any other similar phrase.
3. Count the male:female ratio

[Askold]

Sometimes MRAs have a good point. Some of them are simply misogynists. Feminists are pretty much the same in reverse.

Although I do have to admit that the reasonable person / hateful bigot ratio is much worse amongst the MRAs.


Women selecting jobs that pay less will explain much of the wage gap but not all of it. In some cases women actually do get less pay for the same exact job. As for having few women as CEOs'... There have been many debates about that and apparently it is at least partially caused by the "glass ceiling."

(Funny thing about real world: sometimes things aren't black and white.)

[TenfoldMaquette]

MRAs are a complicated bunch. The foundation of their idea - that there are laws and social customs that are negatively biased and punitive against men - is based on fact, but they've got a rather large bunch of foaming-at-the-mouth misogynists within their group that seemingly believe that the world is their rightful personal toy because penis. Like any privileged group, they're afraid of losing their dominant status and are lashing out to try and enforce the status quo.

@Lexicon: The links you provided pretty much state that only young 20-something (ie under 30) women living in a handful of major metropolises and working in certain fields have incomes that are comparable (or slightly exceeding) that of men. That doesn't exactly contribute to the "myth of the under-paid women" point you might have been trying to make, as it still leaves the vast, vast majority of women pulling in an income substantially less that that of a man for the exact same work.

[The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist]

@Lexicon: The links you provided pretty much state that only young 20-something (ie under 30) women living in a handful of major metropolises and working in certain fields have incomes that are comparable (or slightly exceeding) that of men. That doesn't exactly contribute to the "myth of the under-paid women" point you might have been trying to make, as it still leaves the vast, vast majority of women pulling in an income substantially less that that of a man for the exact same work.

This. It certainly offers some evidence that things are improving, but hardly disproves the notion that women are still facing disadvantages in the workplace.

[Yla]

Lots of statistics.

Single anecdote

Other people had legitimate complaints and counterpoints about lexicon's data. Yours wasn't one of them.


Re OP:
???WTF???

[gyeonghwa]

I'm fairly sure xie's still wrong about about the wage gap not being about discrimination.

[Smurfette Principle]

The only time I will take an MRA seriously is if they are also a feminist, like the lovely people at The Good Man Project. This is because they recognize that society is not run by a conspiracy of women, but rather their problems (the idea of "manhood", the idea that men can't cook or clean or take care of children, that they can't be abused) also stem from the patriarchy (that "manhood" is the opposite of "girliness" and "girliness" is bad, that women alone are the ones who can cook or clean or take care of children, that women are always abused because they are weak and men are strong). You can't fight for one without the other.

[gyeonghwa]

The only time I will take an MRA seriously is if they are also a feminist, like the lovely people at The Good Man Project. This is because they recognize that society is not run by a conspiracy of women, but rather their problems (the idea of "manhood", the idea that men can't cook or clean or take care of children, that they can't be abused) also stem from the patriarchy (that "manhood" is the opposite of "girliness" and "girliness" is bad, that women alone are the ones who can cook or clean or take care of children, that women are always abused because they are weak and men are strong). You can't fight for one without the other.

Not sure if I should + this because I liked it or - this because I liked it.

[The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist]

You can't fight for one without the other.

Also true of battling against any form of inequality.

[Distind]

Sorry, xtainity was always a crock of shit, and I have seen inside it deeper than most….

Every time I read this, I can't bring myself to believe he's referring to being deep in the religion.

[Smurfette Principle]

You can't fight for one without the other.

Also true of battling against any form of inequality.

Intersectionality, woot woot.