Author Topic: Victim of bullying finally wins  (Read 29303 times)

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Offline DasFuchs

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Victim of bullying finally wins
« on: January 08, 2012, 10:17:41 am »
Taken from Lulz
http://lulz.net/furi/res/1905018.html Possibly NSFW images in thread, be warned

-> The kid in the photo is a bully
-> He has goons
-> He constantly threatens a kid 2 years younger than him to beat him outside school
-> He and his goons finally chase this kid after school
-> Kid tries to avoid the fight not once, but two times (has witnesses)
-> Bully is determined to beat him up
-> Kid pulls out a knife and stabs bully 12 times, killing him.

-> Kid gets free of all charges under Florida's "stand your ground" law.



Link: http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2012/jan/03/collier-judge-upholds-stand-your-ground-defense-ca/?partner=popular

My opinion on the matter? Good. One less scum bag to have the prison system support later in life
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Offline anti-nonsense

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Re: Victim of bullying finally wins
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2012, 10:35:25 am »
stabbing the guy once probably would have been enough, bullies are cowards.
From international relations to religious rivalries, from marriage to athlete's foot, whatever the problem a fundy's first solution is usually violence.

Offline TenfoldMaquette

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Re: Victim of bullying finally wins
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2012, 10:37:05 am »
I feel bad that not only the victim had to suffer being bullied, but that he had to resort to something like that to defend himself. Killing someone isn't easy, and I hope he gets the help he needs to deal with having done so. I'm ashamed of the adults affiliated with this for not intervening (meaningfully) earlier, and it's disgusting that society tolerates any of this to begin with. As for the bully...there is no excuse for his behavior, but 16 is an awful early age to die, especially for a situation that could have (and should have) been prevented.

Offline Smurfette Principle

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Re: Victim of bullying finally wins
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2012, 11:41:40 am »
stabbing the guy once probably would have been enough, bullies are cowards.

I refer you to page 5.

Quote
That is when he reached in his pocket, bent forward and stabbed Dylan with his knife as the punches continued. Even after that, he heard Dylan Nuno telling his friends, "Go get him."

He wasn't going to stop. He was surrounded by his friends. He kept punching.

While I don't want to say he "deserved what he got" or anything, because death is always a serious thing, I'd like to point out that under the law, the guy was justified. Laws don't always pan out the way they are intended, and it doesn't matter: that's the way the law was written, and it applies to everyone. Everyone. If they didn't want people to be allowed to use deadly force in self-defense, then they should have made that a law. Just because the implications of that law allow someone to kill a bully doesn't mean that, in this case, the law shouldn't apply to him. That's not how laws work.

Offline Yla

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Re: Victim of bullying finally wins
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2012, 12:22:59 pm »
What a tragedy.

But yes, the court is correct in recognizing self-defense and not prosecuting.
That said, I've stopped trying to anticipate what people around here want a while ago, I've found it makes things smoother.
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Offline anti-nonsense

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Re: Victim of bullying finally wins
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2012, 12:31:26 pm »
oh
stabbing the guy once probably would have been enough, bullies are cowards.

I refer you to page 5.

Quote
That is when he reached in his pocket, bent forward and stabbed Dylan with his knife as the punches continued. Even after that, he heard Dylan Nuno telling his friends, "Go get him."

He wasn't going to stop. He was surrounded by his friends. He kept punching.

While I don't want to say he "deserved what he got" or anything, because death is always a serious thing, I'd like to point out that under the law, the guy was justified. Laws don't always pan out the way they are intended, and it doesn't matter: that's the way the law was written, and it applies to everyone. Everyone. If they didn't want people to be allowed to use deadly force in self-defense, then they should have made that a law. Just because the implications of that law allow someone to kill a bully doesn't mean that, in this case, the law shouldn't apply to him. That's not how laws work.

I wasn't saying anything about whether or not he should have been prosecuted, I was saying that Ii thought the force used was excessive, also I stand corrected, that's what I get or not reading the article
From international relations to religious rivalries, from marriage to athlete's foot, whatever the problem a fundy's first solution is usually violence.

Offline gyeonghwa

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Re: Victim of bullying finally wins
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2012, 01:20:00 pm »
Quote
That is when he reached in his pocket, bent forward and stabbed Dylan with his knife as the punches continued. Even after that, he heard Dylan Nuno telling his friends, "Go get him."

I think his friends deserve some type of punishment for propagating the bullying.  >:(
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Re: Victim of bullying finally wins
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2012, 01:49:36 pm »
While I am upset that this kid died, I am glad that for once it was not the bullied child who died or committed suicide. This should serve as a vital lesson on the dangers of bullying.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2012, 02:27:15 pm by QueenofHearts »

Offline Damen

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Re: Victim of bullying finally wins
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2012, 02:09:37 pm »
I was reading some of the off-site comments and see a lot of people saying that 12 stabbings was overkill. While I agree that, as a number, twelve stabbings was, indeed, overkill, it was also understandable given the circumstances and to those who say otherwise, I merely ask; "You've never been in a fight as a teenager, have you?"

When you're fourteen, your hormones are already completely out of whack and if you've never been trained for a fight, then you're gonna have an adrenalin rush that's gonna cloud judgement. Add in the thought of: "If I don't stop him, he is going to kill me" and you can see why the fucker got stabbed so many times.

Even with adult police officers, whom I hold to a higher standard as they should be trained to control these urges and keep a clear enough head in a fight to know when to stop, have had this happen. I remember hearing once about a cop who swore up and down that he only fired back at an attacking suspect two or three times and had no idea how his 15 round magazine got empty. Another cop thought there were beer cans flying past his face and only realized they were shells from the officer next to him when he saw "Federal" printed on the bottom of them.

You body can do all sorts of shit to you in a fight, so while 12 stabs can be considered excessive, they are also understandable.

That said, I have no sympathy for the bully. I've been bullied often in school, and all I can say is "Garbage in, garbage out."
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Offline gyeonghwa

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Re: Victim of bullying finally wins
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2012, 02:15:38 pm »
If schools actually dealt with bullies like they were suppose to, the death most like wouldn't not have happened.
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Offline Kit Walker

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Re: Victim of bullying finally wins
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2012, 03:47:26 pm »
That said, I have no sympathy for the bully. I've been bullied often in school, and all I can say is "Garbage in, garbage out."

So people who are dicks in high school deserve to die, is what you're saying? I was bullied all through elementary school, still have social anxiety issues from/exacerbated by it, and no one deserves what this bully got. He had a family, friends, people who loved him. This is isn't a Stephen King novel, where the bullies are sociopaths who do things for teh evulz. He was a human being, and a kid (high school is old enough to understand right and wrong, but necessarily not shit like long term consequences)

This story just makes me uncomfortable. It sucks to be bullied, it is emotionally damaging far beyond the direct action...but this kid met an unarmed attacker with lethal force and murderous rage. And now he gets off completely scott free, not even a court appointed psychologist. What happens when a bullied kid brings a gun to school with him for self defense? What happens when a kid in a similar position decides he's had enough and doesn't wait to be attacked? It bugs me.

If schools actually dealt with bullies like they were suppose to, the death most like wouldn't not have happened.
If you read the article, you'd know the bullying primarily happened at their school bus stop, not actually anywhere near the school.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2012, 03:48:58 pm by Kit Walker »
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Offline Vene

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Re: Victim of bullying finally wins
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2012, 03:53:38 pm »
Kit, from the article:
She added that Saavadra had more than enough reason to believe he was in danger of death or great bodily harm.
That right there justifies lethal force.

There is also this:
Saavedra attempted to get away once, witnesses said. He then stabbed Dylan Nuno 12 times in the chest and abdomen. Two of the blows caused fatal wounds, including one that nicked his heart.
So, you have somebody who has good reason to think he's at risk of death or great bodily harm and who tried to retreat. His options are either to do fuck all and take the death or great bodily harm or he can return in kind of lethal force. This is a textbook example of when lethal force is allowable. To say he was in the wrong means that you are saying self defense is not allowable, which is absurd.

Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Victim of bullying finally wins
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2012, 03:57:33 pm »
Poor kid... killing is never easy.  Whether the impact comes now or later, he'll have to deal with it, maybe for the rest of his life.

I'm not glad about this at all.  I mean, I'm glad that the kid didn't go to jail over this, but that's the only thing I'm glad about.

The school should never have allowed this to happen.  Any reasonable facility would have seen the signs long before this confrontation.  And they would have stopped it.

I suppose the one positive thing about this is that only this happened, and not a school shooting.
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Offline gyeonghwa

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Re: Victim of bullying finally wins
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2012, 04:08:18 pm »
If you read the article, you'd know the bullying primarily happened at their school bus stop, not actually anywhere near the school.

The school could still do something about it, like report it to the police if it's not in school grounds. Furthermore, I meant that quote to be in a general sense. If schools were to make their campus less inviting to bullies, then the bullying would have been less likely to occur. It reduce the chances of this happening.  (Notice how I said schools and didn't specify that school.)
« Last Edit: January 08, 2012, 04:11:49 pm by gyeonghwa »
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Offline Neal_Darex

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Re: Victim of bullying finally wins
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2012, 04:19:20 pm »
^And say what exactly?  Even if the police decided to follow up on a random report of bullying on some street corner some where- the likely result would be the parents pressing charges against the school for siccing the police on their dear, sweet child.  The problem isn't so much schools not doing anything.  The problem is they can't.  At least not without having lawsuits rammed up their rears by parents every step of the way.  If one wants to see less of this nonsense, then legal authority needs to be given back to schools so they can deal with situations similar to this without worrying that doing so will kill their budgets for the next five years.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2012, 04:26:17 pm by Neal_Darex »