FSTDT Forums
Community => Politics and Government => Topic started by: CaseAgainstFaith on June 05, 2012, 07:26:30 pm
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So do you think he will lose the recall election? From the different news articles I've read it at least seems like voter turn out for the state is at a all time high. Maybe that will be a good thing and walker will be defeated. For those of you that want to watch live updates, at around 8PM CST http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2012/wisconsin-recall-results (http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2012/wisconsin-recall-results) will be doing it. Go Tom Barrett!
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Way I figure, Walker will lose, it'll be relatively close, he'll demand a recount, and then they'll mysteriously find votes that someone somehow missed.
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Oh they were trying to pull dirty tricks to make sure people didn't vote earlier:
http://ed.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/04/12055962-wisconsin-voters-beware-of-dirty-tricks?lite
Milwaukee just ran out of voter registration forms.
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Oh they were trying to pull dirty tricks to make sure people didn't vote earlier:
http://ed.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/04/12055962-wisconsin-voters-beware-of-dirty-tricks?lite
Milwaukee just ran out of voter registration forms.
Why did I read the comments...Blarf...
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Also fake phone calls saying that if you were a dem no need to vote
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Well, I cast my vote about three and a half hours ago. I personally don’t have the stomach for watching results as they come in, so I will be waiting until tomorrow for any of that.
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FUCK
http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/05/politics/wisconsin-recall-vote/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
CNN projects we lost FUCK FUCK FUCK
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It's still too fucking early to call, especially since exit polls listed it as a dead heat.
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Current exit gives Walker a 4 point lead
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Currently at 54%/46%, Walker in the lead. Milwaukee still hasn't reported yet.
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RIP Wisconsin. It was nice knowing you.
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We can actually blame the announcement for influencing votes, too...
Since there were people still in line to vote when that announcement came through. not all the polls had closed yet. And you can bet some people left because "Oh, well, they announced it, so there's no point in me voting"
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Would it be fair to accuse Walker and his supporters of shenanigans yet?
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With all the stupid people, I'm pretty sure he honestly won.
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We can actually blame the announcement for influencing votes, too...
Since there were people still in line to vote when that announcement came through. not all the polls had closed yet. And you can bet some people left because "Oh, well, they announced it, so there's no point in me voting"
MY EXACT THOUGHTS.
Also down another percent. I would hope this makes him more moderate. But it won't.
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Would it be fair to accuse Walker and his supporters of shenanigans yet?
Yes scumbags did it the first cycle with fake absentee forms. Like they told voters to send it to 123 Fake Street by two days after the election
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RIP Wisconsin. It was nice knowing you.
Actually Wisconsin's been dead for quite awhile, since they replaced Feingold with a teabagger. Also, I really don't get why republicans like the whole right-to-work law stuff, I thought they had a problem with "free riders"??
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RIP Wisconsin. It was nice knowing you.
Actually Wisconsin's been dead for quite awhile, since they replaced Feingold with a teabagger. Also, I really don't get why republicans like the whole right-to-work law stuff, I thought they had a problem with "free riders"??
cause this allows unions to go bankrupt
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RIP Wisconsin. It was nice knowing you.
Actually Wisconsin's been dead for quite awhile, since they replaced Feingold with a teabagger. Also, I really don't get why republicans like the whole right-to-work law stuff, I thought they had a problem with "free riders"??
cause this allows unions to go bankrupt
Well, a good deal of the union laws confuse the mess out of me, because I'm for unions, shit, I would prefer if we used collective bargining for wages in this country rather than minimum wage (think what they do in Germany and Sweden). But at the same time, I don't think someone should join a union if they don't want to, I don't think someone should be denied a job because they don't want to join a union. Is it possible there could be in a spilt in pay and benefits between union and non-union workers at a given job?? Because this has happened at my mother's job, she part of the newly formed union (SEIU) at the nursing home, and the guy who runs it is uber anti-union, and gave small pay raise to all the non-union members, while the union members who are fighting for a decent pay raise, got nothing. I'm sorry for sounding like a dumbass.
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RIP Wisconsin. It was nice knowing you.
Actually Wisconsin's been dead for quite awhile, since they replaced Feingold with a teabagger. Also, I really don't get why republicans like the whole right-to-work law stuff, I thought they had a problem with "free riders"??
cause this allows unions to go bankrupt
Well, a good deal of the union laws confuse the mess out of me, because I'm for unions, shit, I would prefer if we used collective bargining for wages in this country rather than minimum wage (think what they do in Germany and Sweden). But at the same time, I don't think someone should join a union if they don't want to, I don't think someone should be denied a job because they don't want to join a union. It is possible there could some way that there could be spilt in pay and benefits between union and non-union workers at a given job?? Because this has happened at my mother's job, she part of the newly formed union (SEIU) at the nursing home, and the guy who runs itis uber anti-union, and gave small pay raise to all the non-union members, while the union members who are fighting for a decent pay raise, got nothing. I'm sorry for sounding like a dumbass.
I get that but the issue is they are saying if you hate unions that's fine since you'll still get benefits
BTW(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m56c7bJlZp1qzng72o2_500.png) also note that most of Darth Walker's cash came from out of state so the Beetles were wrong money CAN buy me love
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Well looks like the Koch Whore won.
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Well looks like the Koch Whore won.
No, really?
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I understand what you're saying, and I agree. I feel pay and benefits should be spilt into two columns, pay & benefits for union workers and pay and benefits for non-union workers at any given job. I know it comes off as somewhat mean and heartless in a way.
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I understand what you're saying, and I agree. I feel pay and benefits should be spilt into two columns, pay & benefits for union workers and pay and benefits for non-union workers at any given job. I know it comes off as somewhat mean and heartless in a way.
That is the benefits of closed shops also some jobs need a united front (teachers etc)
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I understand what you're saying, and I agree. I feel pay and benefits should be spilt into two columns, pay & benefits for union workers and pay and benefits for non-union workers at any given job. I know it comes off as somewhat mean and heartless in a way.
That is the benefits of closed shops also some jobs need a united front (teachers etc)
I understand some jobs do need a united front, but closed shops go against my beliefs somewhat (plus they're illegal). I don't think anyone should be denied a job because they don't want to join the union. I, instead think there needs to be seperate deals. This is why I'm very much torn on the issue of unions. As I said before, I'm for them, and support them, but the laws confuse me.
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I understand what you're saying, and I agree. I feel pay and benefits should be spilt into two columns, pay & benefits for union workers and pay and benefits for non-union workers at any given job. I know it comes off as somewhat mean and heartless in a way.
That is the benefits of closed shops also some jobs need a united front (teachers etc)
I understand some jobs do need a united front, but closed shops go against my beliefs somewhat (plus they're illegal). I don't think anyone should be denied a job because they don't want to join the union. I, instead think there needs to be seperate deals. This is why I'm very much torn on the issue of unions. As I said before, I'm for them, and support them, but the laws confuse me.
I thought teachers unions were mandatory odd regardless this tells me that Citizens United can't stand if you can ltierally buy elections
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Sorry for not making sense, I'm very tired and I need to go to sleep, maybe I'll understand this stuff tomorrow more clearly.
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Fuck!
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Would it be fair to accuse Walker and his supporters of shenanigans yet?
Yet? We've found out they were pulling dirty tactics before the (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/06/05/494926/republicans-disenfranchise-wisconsin-college-students/) polls (http://www.wibw.com/home/nationalnews/headlines/In_Wisconsin_Reports_Of_Voter_Suppression_Efforts_157298065.html) closed (http://uselectionnews.org/events-of-voter-suppression-reported-in-wisconsin/8510199/).
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any way we can call it invalid
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Yet? We've found out they were pulling dirty tactics before the (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/06/05/494926/republicans-disenfranchise-wisconsin-college-students/) polls (http://www.wibw.com/home/nationalnews/headlines/In_Wisconsin_Reports_Of_Voter_Suppression_Efforts_157298065.html) closed (http://uselectionnews.org/events-of-voter-suppression-reported-in-wisconsin/8510199/).
But it isn't voter suppression if the right-wing does it. That's just them making sure voter fraud does not happen by minimizing the number of possibly-illegal votes.
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Well Gov Walker might of won yesterday but here is some slight GOOD news for Wisconsin -
Republican Gov. Scott Walker won his recall election, but he may have a tougher time getting things through the Wisconsin Legislature after Democrats appear to have successfully recalled a Republican state senator, which would flip the balance of power in the state.
With all precincts reporting, Democrat John Lehman led incumbent Sen. Van Wanggaard, a Republican, 51 percent to 49 percent.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jun/6/dems-win-control-wisconsin-senate/ (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jun/6/dems-win-control-wisconsin-senate/)
So even though walker won it looks like he will at least have a tougher time getting the senate to side with him.
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On a much clearer review, what kefk said I agree with, I mean if someone doesn't want to be part of a union they can always not take the job or find a nonunion job. The thing that bothers me the most is this whole Union members=lazy,and overpaid/unions lead to mediocrity meme. God forbid someone wants a decent pay. Sorry, if I came off as somewhat of a teabagger earlier.
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Maybe Walker won't "win" for long.
http://truth-out.org/news/item/9591-confidant-contradicts-walker-claims-governor-is-not-cooperating-with-corruption-investigation
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Maybe Walker won't "win" for long.
http://truth-out.org/news/item/9591-confidant-contradicts-walker-claims-governor-is-not-cooperating-with-corruption-investigation
His Lieutenant Governor is worse than him, actually... :S
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Still, it would be a nice slap in the face to the GOP. I'm putting my partisan hat on for the moment, if you'll bear with me.
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I’ve cooled down a little. But still…
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Well looks like the Koch Whore won.
No, really?
Ya rly.
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I think TYT, perhaps more so the people in their footage, summed it up pretty nicely.
"Democracy died tonight."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY_8UNYafxU
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Didnt obama outspend McCain not saying it makes what Walker did right or anything. Still Democracy really did die
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He did, but not by a 7:1 ratio.
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He did, but not by a 7:1 ratio.
Ugh that number makes me sick
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This morning, on NPR, I heard a quote from some lady wondering why folks were still in Madison protesting. After all, “they lost twice.”
I just don’t think this lady has been paying attention to the way the Walker administration is run. This man has made it abundantly clear that he thinks he only represents the folks that donated to his campaign. Nothing in the recall election indicates that he has come to think otherwise. As long as he continues in this destructive mindset, there must be folks ready to remind him that he in fact represents all of Wisconsin.
I don’t particularly expect that lesson to ever sink into Walker’s brain. But we must do what we must do.
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On a much clearer review, what kefk said I agree with, I mean if someone doesn't want to be part of a union they can always not take the job or find a nonunion job. The thing that bothers me the most is this whole Union members=lazy,and overpaid/unions lead to mediocrity meme. God forbid someone wants a decent pay. Sorry, if I came off as somewhat of a teabagger earlier.
It's not legitimate for employees to negotiate with their employers. They simply have to accept the first offer.
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Remember, working hard to make your way up the ranks at work is earning your way to comfort. Working hard to organize and confront your employer on workplace issues is whining.
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We can actually blame the announcement for influencing votes, too...
Since there were people still in line to vote when that announcement came through. not all the polls had closed yet. And you can bet some people left because "Oh, well, they announced it, so there's no point in me voting"
MY EXACT THOUGHTS.
Also down another percent. I would hope this makes him more moderate. But it won't.
Fuck no! This would say to him "Hey, they like you as is!"
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On a much clearer review, what kefk said I agree with, I mean if someone doesn't want to be part of a union they can always not take the job or find a nonunion job. The thing that bothers me the most is this whole Union members=lazy,and overpaid/unions lead to mediocrity meme. God forbid someone wants a decent pay. Sorry, if I came off as somewhat of a teabagger earlier.
Exactly. I admit there are people that are lazy and use the unions to to do so, but a far greater majority are hard working and just want decent pay and a safe job.
At my work starting out, as a seasonal, you make minimum wage, 7-8 bucks an hour. I lived like that before, if you can call living off a 200 a week paycheck living. As a union regular the lowest paying bid is around 13 an hour. Right now I make near the maximum as a loader operator at 16.25 or so. With the overtime I work I'm bringing home 600 a week and damned happy with it.
The company has already made clear to us during the last big shake up when they decided to close the Delaware plant that should the union be booted we all go back down to minimum.
To top that off incidents like I had last night where hitting a pothole shifted a load and cracked the loader window, the union makes the company investigate and control their response instead of "well, you cost us money, terminated" like they do in regular jobs.
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I'd like to offer at least a glimmer of hope:
http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/the-monitors-view/2012/0606/Wisconsin-recall-election-as-a-wake-up-call
The heated national politics over Governor Walker’s reforms turned out to be not so heated in the privacy of the polling booth. Nearly 40 percent of those who voted for him were from union households, according to the ABC News exit poll. And 6 out of 10 voters – more than who voted for Walker – said a recall election should be used only for official misconduct, not policy disputes. (Walker was the third governor in US history to face a recall vote – but the only one to survive.)
Walker did not win an easy victory. 54% is what I'd call a "comfortable margin". And with the highlighted factor in play, it's quite possible that plenty of people in Wisconsin disliked his stance on public sector unions, but didn't think that was enough to recall him. Those people might well vote him out in the next gubernatorial election.
And I'm going to disagree with the statement that "democracy died" that day. Yes, Walker outspent his opponent 7:1, but that wasn't the sole factor. There was plenty of support for his decision to start with, and Wisconsin's economy is improving under his watch. I'm not trying to dismiss the role campaign spending and ads play in elections, but ads can only influence people. It is not yet possible to truly BUY an election (legally at least).
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A lot of people voted against the recall simply because they believe that once you elect someone, you don't get a do over.
Also, for spending him 7:1, he only beat him by 8%. If anything, that tells me democracy is working. It just happens to be working in a way I don't like.
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A lot of people voted against the recall simply because they believe that once you elect someone, you don't get a do over.
Also, for spending him 7:1, he only beat him by 8%. If anything, that tells me democracy is working. It just happens to be working in a way I don't like.
And I'm damn pissy about it. Oh well, I'll keep fighting for what I think is right.
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A lot of people voted against the recall simply because they believe that once you elect someone, you don't get a do over.
Also, for spending him 7:1, he only beat him by 8%. If anything, that tells me democracy is working. It just happens to be working in a way I don't like.
And I'm damn pissy about it. Oh well, I'll keep fighting for what I think is right.
And this is precisely the attitude we need. Thank you.
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I'm not surprised he won. With the amount of sheer cash the Koch brothers and other out of state conservative backers were dumping into the campaign, it's a wonder it was as close as it was. Ever since Citizens United (the most dishonestly named governmental fubar since the USA PATRIOT act) money = political influence. The Koch brothers tried to buy a presidential nominee with Herman Cain and came closer than that crazyass man had any right to. Now they've bought themselves a governor. And isn't it cute how Walker says that this is a "victory for the people?"