FSTDT Forums
Community => Entertainment and Television => Topic started by: Askold on July 15, 2013, 12:29:11 am
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http://insidemovies.ew.com/2013/07/10/andrew-garfield-spider-man-gay/
Garfield has suggested half-jokingly that Spiderman's love interest MJ should be a dude. Apparently it is partially because he believes it would be a fresh interpretation of the superhero and partially because he already has a guy he wants to play that role.
The thing that really interests me in this suggestion is, why not? Some comments are just "no gay heroes!/whine" or "gay agenda"/conspiracy" complaints, but seriously, why not?
There have been so many versions of Spiderman and other comicbook heroes and so many retcons that why would it be so bad if one version is gay or bisexual? I'm not saying it should be done because of shock value or simply to bait LGBT viewers into the movies, I'm just saying that I would not be bothered if the hero of the movie is gay.
I mean if they would do a whole movie about "OH LOOK HE'S GAY ISN'T THAT COOL!" then it would be wrong, but if it's just a spiderman movie and the romance subplot has a guy, then why should that be a problem?
(This is all hypotethical though, I doubt they'll do it. Besides I already know why half the fundies in the world would spontaneously combust if there was a gay superhero in a movie. And approximately 73% of comic book geeks would also start frothing at the mouth. But they do that everytime there is a tiniest change in a movie.)
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I don't want him to be gay because it would be irritating. He should be bisexual. If a character is established to be attracted to the opposite sex, you can't make them gay no matter how much you call them gay. They're bi. Same thing goes with Willow Rosenberg in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. She was legitimately attracted to Oz and Xander, so making her "gay" is just silly, because it makes an entire plotline even more stupid. If she was legitimately gay, she never would have cheated on Oz with Xander in the first place, because she wouldn't be into either of them. So yeah, I want Spider-Man to be bisexual, not gay, because I hate illogical retcons.
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I don't want him to be gay because it would be irritating. He should be bisexual. If a character is established to be attracted to the opposite sex, you can't make them gay no matter how much you call them gay. They're bi. Same thing goes with Willow Rosenberg in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. She was legitimately attracted to Oz and Xander, so making her "gay" is just silly, because it makes an entire plotline even more stupid. If she was legitimately gay, she never would have cheated on Oz with Xander in the first place, because she wouldn't be into either of them. So yeah, I want Spider-Man to be bisexual, not gay, because I hate illogical retcons.
You are forgetting that the new Spiderman movies started all over again. So theoretically, you could disregard everything that the comics had about his sexuality. So we have one movie where he was admittedly dating a girl, which could imply that he is either bi or straight. (or demisexual or any of those 1546 tumblr sexualities.)
I do agree that if they would go with bi they would not have to make awkward explanations on why he was clearly interested in what's-her-face. (Repressing his homosexual side? Being so deep in the closet that he tried to have a heterosexual relationship? Yeah, either start from scratch with spiderman, or with a different hero or make him bi.)
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I don't want him to be gay because it would be irritating. He should be bisexual. If a character is established to be attracted to the opposite sex, you can't make them gay no matter how much you call them gay. They're bi. Same thing goes with Willow Rosenberg in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. She was legitimately attracted to Oz and Xander, so making her "gay" is just silly, because it makes an entire plotline even more stupid. If she was legitimately gay, she never would have cheated on Oz with Xander in the first place, because she wouldn't be into either of them. So yeah, I want Spider-Man to be bisexual, not gay, because I hate illogical retcons.
You are forgetting that the new Spiderman movies started all over again. So theoretically, you could disregard everything that the comics had about his sexuality. So we have one movie where he was admittedly dating a girl, which could imply that he is either bi or straight. (or demisexual or any of those 1546 tumblr sexualities.)
I do agree that if they would go with bi they would not have to make awkward explanations on why he was clearly interested in what's-her-face. (Repressing his homosexual side? Being so deep in the closet that he tried to have a heterosexual relationship? Yeah, either start from scratch with spiderman, or with a different hero or make him bi.)
Yeah, that's my point. He was with Gwen Stacey. Make Amazing Spider-Man 2 have her do the bridge drop from the comics, and him end up meeting male MJ and falling for him.
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Can he be an otherkin instead?
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Can he be an otherkin instead?
Spiderkin
Spiderkin
Does whatever a spider can.
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Can he be an otherkin instead?
Spiderkin
Spiderkin
Does whatever a spider can.
...That would actually be quite fitting. I mean at some point in the comics it really was that Parker got his powers from the spirit of spider, being some kind of chosen champion of an animal totem. I'm not sure how many times that has been retconned by now but at that point at least Parker being spider-kin otherkin/therian would fit into the story.
Scary.
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I do agree that if they would go with bi they would not have to make awkward explanations on why he was clearly interested in what's-her-face. (Repressing his homosexual side? Being so deep in the closet that he tried to have a heterosexual relationship? Yeah, either start from scratch with spiderman, or with a different hero or make him bi.)
Or he could have just not figured out his orientation yet.
It isn't uncommon for people to have a heterosexual relationship - maybe even heterosexual marriage - before coming out as gay. Sure, some people know all their lives that they are gay. Others don't, for any number of reasons.
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Disclaimer: I don't read Spiderman comics, and I eventually lost interest in the movies. I'm also not particularly gay myself. Disagreeing opinions and statements are welcome.
I wouldn't like a new Spiderman incarnation that is just like the previous ones, just with Martin John instead of Mary Jane. It'd be very obvious pandering, but not bring anything new into it. Gay people are not defined by being gay, but are (and in case of comic book characters, should be) well rounded, multifaceted personalities. In short, only making him gay is boring. Which is what askold said.
I want to see something new and radical. Let Peter live on a space habitat. He isn't bitten by a magic spider, but develops a fascination with the evolved-for-zero-gravity spiderites that live in the station machinery. He equips himself with homemade augs and biomods, and takes up the good fight against the criminal underbelly, against corrupt habitat-nation officials, against external threats, against his personal troubles. Oh, and his eventual love interest is another man, too. Or, what the hell, a fugitive genderless AI that fled into a mobile android platform.
I'd read that.
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I would suggest something like The Night Gwen Stacy Died happening either at the end of 2 or midway through it, and the guy helping him through the emotional pain, with Peter developing emotions for him (and at first questioning himself and stuff).
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I'm ok with as long as doesn't come out looking like some really bad slash fic.
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I really think my biggest issue with it has to be why bother retelling the same story only changing the sexes. Tell a new damn story. Please, the remakes are getting painful.
I'd say there has to be a decent gay hero out there, then I remembered most of them wound up with HIV to stay relevant in the 90s. Maybe some newer ones? Haven't really followed comics in ages. Hell, if there isn't one, make one. And please give him a remarkably immature bro for a partner. It'd just be funny.
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I don't want him to be gay because it would be irritating. He should be bisexual. If a character is established to be attracted to the opposite sex, you can't make them gay no matter how much you call them gay. They're bi. Same thing goes with Willow Rosenberg in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. She was legitimately attracted to Oz and Xander, so making her "gay" is just silly, because it makes an entire plotline even more stupid. If she was legitimately gay, she never would have cheated on Oz with Xander in the first place, because she wouldn't be into either of them. So yeah, I want Spider-Man to be bisexual, not gay, because I hate illogical retcons.
Actually, Willow seemed like she was bi, but in denial about still being attracted to men.
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I don't want him to be gay because it would be irritating. He should be bisexual. If a character is established to be attracted to the opposite sex, you can't make them gay no matter how much you call them gay. They're bi. Same thing goes with Willow Rosenberg in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. She was legitimately attracted to Oz and Xander, so making her "gay" is just silly, because it makes an entire plotline even more stupid. If she was legitimately gay, she never would have cheated on Oz with Xander in the first place, because she wouldn't be into either of them. So yeah, I want Spider-Man to be bisexual, not gay, because I hate illogical retcons.
Actually, Willow seemed like she was bi, but in denial about still being attracted to men.
That was my point. They only called her gay, and if her being in denial about being bi was supposed to be a think, then they should have brought it up.
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I found some reactions to such an idea:
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/f6be294ffaee4eb4d9e35a60fb88d3bd/tumblr_mpqt6ceHXL1r2vpsgo5_500.png)
(http://31.media.tumblr.com/05eb803e93a8a19c72f37ab66b95455e/tumblr_mpqt6ceHXL1r2vpsgo4_400.png)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/c5e2182ce548f0baddc3eb4d460b90b6/tumblr_mpqt6ceHXL1r2vpsgo7_500.png)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/6028317959dac47aac5e589fb67e6494/tumblr_mpqt6ceHXL1r2vpsgo1_500.png)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/e014924d90b4757dc8566b9e11954be9/tumblr_mpqt6ceHXL1r2vpsgo9_500.png)
Wow.
Anyways, there are already gay, lesbian, bisexual superheros. You could easily focus on them. Wolverine's own son is bi. I'd love to see more Daken.
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I liked it when Beast from X-Men was gay.
Then the next writer retconned that in the most insulting way possible, with a lecture from Cyclops of all people.
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You mean with death?
Ironbite-cause that was from Ultimates.
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Death's slightly less insulting but still insulting.
Also why does it seem like over half of the gay superheroes out there have HIV?
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Because...CONTROVERSY!
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Seriously why not have a straight superhero who gets HIV from someone bleeding on his wound and boom, you have the token HIV character without him fulfilling an offensive stereotype.
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Because steryotyping and CONTROVERSY!
Ironbite-and sales.
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*sighs*
All hail the almighty and sacred dollar...
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I liked it when Beast from X-Men was gay.
Then the next writer retconned that in the most insulting way possible, with a lecture from Cyclops of all people.
I like to pretend that didn't happen because it hits all my raeg buttons.
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I would have thought that superheroes would be immune to HIV.
Do the comics show them getting colds and other illnesses as well?
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I would have thought that superheroes would be immune to HIV.
Do the comics show them getting colds and other illnesses as well?
Sometimes. It's a good way to create a disadvantage for them.
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I would have thought that superheroes would be immune to HIV.
Do the comics show them getting colds and other illnesses as well?
Sometimes. It's a good way to create a disadvantage for them.
Spiderman has had several fights where he otherwise would have had no trouble but was suffering from some sickness or hadn't recovered from his previous fights.
Someone once said that the only hero who takes bigger beating in his fights than Spiderman is Wolverine, but Spidey doesn't have super-healing ability.
And I remember some stories about Ironman where he was suffering from injuries or just having the chest rig break down or lack power making him nearly defenseless.
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Marvel is fairly decent on giving its heroes liabilities. Aurora from Alpha Flight is a schizophrenic.
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Wait aminute, wasn't there a group of superheroes who had aids? They were supposedly some sort of next step in human evolution.
All I know about them is that Linkara had an episode about them in Atop the fourth wall.
Also, Snowflame!
(http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=650400&d=1364732921)
The cocaine powered supervillain was in those comics.
And since that was how they handled the topic of drug addiction, you can guess how maturely they discussed aids.
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Wait aminute, wasn't there a group of superheroes who had aids? They were supposedly some sort of next step in human evolution.
All I know about them is that Linkara had an episode about them in Atop the fourth wall.
Also, Snowflame!
(http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=650400&d=1364732921)
The cocaine powered supervillain was in those comics.
And since that was how they handled the topic of drug addiction, you can guess how maturely they discussed aids.
I'm just imagining some misguided relative buying that comic for a child.
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I would have thought that superheroes would be immune to HIV.
Do the comics show them getting colds and other illnesses as well?
Sometimes. It's a good way to create a disadvantage for them.
Spiderman has had several fights where he otherwise would have had no trouble but was suffering from some sickness or hadn't recovered from his previous fights.
Someone once said that the only hero who takes bigger beating in his fights than Spiderman is Wolverine, but Spidey doesn't have super-healing ability.
And I remember some stories about Ironman where he was suffering from injuries or just having the chest rig break down or lack power making him nearly defenseless.
There was also the time he was struck by lightning, and that, combined with the Y2K bug, made the armor sentient, which proceeded to become nicknamed "Tony's Abusive Boyfriend".
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I would have thought that superheroes would be immune to HIV.
Do the comics show them getting colds and other illnesses as well?
Sometimes. It's a good way to create a disadvantage for them.
Spiderman has had several fights where he otherwise would have had no trouble but was suffering from some sickness or hadn't recovered from his previous fights.
Someone once said that the only hero who takes bigger beating in his fights than Spiderman is Wolverine, but Spidey doesn't have super-healing ability.
And I remember some stories about Ironman where he was suffering from injuries or just having the chest rig break down or lack power making him nearly defenseless.
There was also the time he was struck by lightning, and that, combined with the Y2K bug, made the armor sentient, which proceeded to become nicknamed "Tony's Abusive Boyfriend".
Actually the armor does become sentient anyways. The Hypervelocity armor. It basically copied Tony's mind and can act as him.
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I would have thought that superheroes would be immune to HIV.
Do the comics show them getting colds and other illnesses as well?
Sometimes. It's a good way to create a disadvantage for them.
Spiderman has had several fights where he otherwise would have had no trouble but was suffering from some sickness or hadn't recovered from his previous fights.
Someone once said that the only hero who takes bigger beating in his fights than Spiderman is Wolverine, but Spidey doesn't have super-healing ability.
And I remember some stories about Ironman where he was suffering from injuries or just having the chest rig break down or lack power making him nearly defenseless.
There was also the time he was struck by lightning, and that, combined with the Y2K bug, made the armor sentient, which proceeded to become nicknamed "Tony's Abusive Boyfriend".
Then a cult named the Sons of Yinsin try to resurrect Yinsin with it and the whole thing ends up being infected by Ultron and yeah...messy times.
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Anytime I don't understand something, I just say "Comic Books" and the need for understanding no longer exists.