FSTDT Forums
Community => Society and History => Topic started by: Shane for Wax on September 07, 2013, 12:58:39 am
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http://www.toynews-online.biz/news/read/toys-r-us-to-drop-boys-and-girls-labelling/040859
Toys R Us is looking to work closely with the Let Toys Be Toys consumer campaign group, agreeing to become more inclusive in its marketing of toys to girls and boys.
The news follows a meeting last week between TRU's UK board members and Let Toys Be Toys, with the group believing it marks a major change in the UK toy sales landscape.
TRU will draw up a set of principles for in-store signage meaning that, in the long-term, explicit references to gender will be removed and images will show boys and girls enjoying the same toys. TRU also promised to start by looking at the way toys are represented in its upcoming Christmas catalogue.
Coooooool. Though I'm sure some people will definitely have a distinct problem with it.
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Wow, that's awesome.
I don't think it's going to change things overnight, but as time goes on, this will probably have good repercussions.
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Okedoke. I never paid much attention to who's 'supposed' to play with what anyway.
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Yay :D Now if they would only start making the dresses/suits in both sexes
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Yay :D Now if they would only start making the dresses/suits in both sexes
Agreed, and this is good, but is it only in the UK?
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I'm sure it'll help a bit, but considering that ALL of the dolls and other stereotypically "girly" toys tend to be in "the pink aisles," wherein all of the aisle labels themselves are also pink...TRU probably still has a long way to go.
Kudos to them for making that first step, though!
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Political correctness carried to the point of drooling insanity.
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Political correctness carried to the point of drooling insanity.
What
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Political correctness carried to the point of drooling insanity.
Nah. If you don't tell a kid what gender toys are supposed to be for, they don't care. We gave my niece all of my old action figures, which are mainly superheroes, DBZ and WWE. She loves them.
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As long as adults and kids don't lay shame on children when they play with an "opposite gender" toy, that's what really matters. Getting the toy makers and marketers to tone down the intensity of gender role cues in store aisles and adverts would help even more. My favorite toy maker as a child was Whammo...nothing gender specific, and the toys were good goofy fun, especially for group play. Nerf comes close to that, though an argument about girls playing with a Nerf football and Nerf sponge dart guns might come up in a conservative household....where concerns about foam and plastic toys' roles within a Biblical paradigm must be a fucking hoot to over hear.
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And yea the Lord did say, "Thou must not playeth with objects that pertaineth not to thine sex. Verily, Ninja Turtles and He-Mans are for boys only, and Barbies and Easy-bake Ovens, their use is to the girl."
That was in the Bible. Really.
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As long as adults and kids don't lay shame on children when they play with an "opposite gender" toy, that's what really matters. Getting the toy makers and marketers to tone down the intensity of gender role cues in store aisles and adverts would help even more. My favorite toy maker as a child was Whammo...nothing gender specific, and the toys were good goofy fun, especially for group play. Nerf comes close to that, though an argument about girls playing with a Nerf football and Nerf sponge dart guns might come up in a conservative household....where concerns about foam and plastic toys' roles within a Biblical paradigm must be a fucking hoot to over hear.
My niece loves chasing and playing with bugs outside and playing catch. I agree, if you don't tell them something is for a certain gender, they don't care.
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Wasn't there a study that included baby chimps to see if our gender preferred toys were cultural or hardwired? I seem to recall the female offspring, chimps included, preferred "nurturing" toys like baby dolls.
This is still a good idea.
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Wasn't there a study that included baby chimps to see if our gender preferred toys were cultural or hardwired? I seem to recall the female offspring, chimps included, preferred "nurturing" toys like baby dolls.
This is still a good idea.
I'd imagine that this is one of those cases where chimps cannot replace human beings.
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As long as adults and kids don't lay shame on children when they play with an "opposite gender" toy, that's what really matters. Getting the toy makers and marketers to tone down the intensity of gender role cues in store aisles and adverts would help even more. My favorite toy maker as a child was Whammo...nothing gender specific, and the toys were good goofy fun, especially for group play. Nerf comes close to that, though an argument about girls playing with a Nerf football and Nerf sponge dart guns might come up in a conservative household....where concerns about foam and plastic toys' roles within a Biblical paradigm must be a fucking hoot to over hear.
I currently do not comprehend why gender targeted toys are a big deal. I legitimately do not understand why a change in children's play things is being treated like this.
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Wasn't there a study that included baby chimps to see if our gender preferred toys were cultural or hardwired? I seem to recall the female offspring, chimps included, preferred "nurturing" toys like baby dolls.
This is still a good idea.
I'd imagine that this is one of those cases where chimps cannot replace human beings.
Also one of those cases where it's impossible to separate inherent gender differences from socially constructed gender roles, hence the use of our closest living relatives to at least get a picture of what's typical for primates, if nothing else. It's hardly conclusive, but it's better than nothing.
Honestly, I can accept that each of the genders is probably more inclined towards certain behaviors than the other, on a broad scale (obviously it would differ drastically when you study individuals). The problem is that, without conducting a super unethical experiment where human children are cut off from the rest of society and therefore not subjected to social norms, there is absolutely no way to be certain of how much inherent influence gender has on behavior, and in what areas.
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I found one of the studies I was thinking of, though not the study.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=girls-tend-to-nurture-boys-tend-to-10-12-20
If you have kids, you’ve no doubt noticed that, generally speaking, girls like to play with dolls while boys gravitate toward swords and trains. Study after study has shown this to be true. But is it instinct? Parental influence? Or the result of some sort of preschool peer-pressure? One way to find out is to look to the animal kingdom, where there are no gender-specific playthings. Earlier studies of monkeys in captivity have shown that, given a choice, females do prefer dolls whereas males will reach for a truck. But what about how the animals play in the wild?
Scientists studying chimps in a national park in Uganda have found that all the youngsters like to play with sticks. They poke them into holes and just carry them around. But the female chimps also seem to act out nurturing them, holding the sticks close and bringing them into their nests at naptime. Males prefer to use the sticks to whack each other. Sound familiar?
This one mentions the other study:
http://www.observer.ug/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=11445:gender-roles-and-chimps-
While both sexes collected sticks to use as toys, females often treated them like dolls, carrying their sticks from tree to tree, patting and cuddling them, and involving them in simple games. In one case, a young male chimp made a small nest next to his own and appeared to put his stick to bed.
The few males in the group that played with stick dolls gave up when they reached adulthood. But females carried on the parental role-playing game and only stopped when they gave birth to their first baby. Two thirds of the chimps who kept stick dolls were female. The findings suggest that biological factors - rather than social influences alone - play some role in shaping toy preferences in childhood.
The study is not the first to suggest a biological origin for toy preferences in young primates. In 2008, Janice Hassett's group at Yerkes National Primate Research Centre at Emory University in Atlanta gave rhesus monkeys a collection of toys to play with. The males spent most of their time playing with trucks and other "masculine" toys, while females played with a greater variety of toys.
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I'm sure it'll help a bit, but considering that ALL of the dolls and other stereotypically "girly" toys tend to be in "the pink aisles," wherein all of the aisle labels themselves are also pink...TRU probably still has a long way to go.
Kudos to them for making that first step, though!
I am perfectly fine with keeping [dolls*] and [cars*] in separate aisles, as long as it's not labelled 'boys' and 'girls'. Painting one of them pink is a borderline case; I wouldn't call it 'long way to go'.
Childs have different interests and sorting toys by style is fine.
Kudos to Toys'R'us!
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As long as adults and kids don't lay shame on children when they play with an "opposite gender" toy, that's what really matters. Getting the toy makers and marketers to tone down the intensity of gender role cues in store aisles and adverts would help even more. My favorite toy maker as a child was Whammo...nothing gender specific, and the toys were good goofy fun, especially for group play. Nerf comes close to that, though an argument about girls playing with a Nerf football and Nerf sponge dart guns might come up in a conservative household....where concerns about foam and plastic toys' roles within a Biblical paradigm must be a fucking hoot to over hear.
I currently do not comprehend why gender targeted toys are a big deal. I legitimately do not understand why a change in children's play things is being treated like this.
Gender targeted toys tend to reinforce bullshit "gender roles" which reinforce bullshit sexist ideals such as "Men are stronger and should be in charge of trucks, sports, and physical things" and "Women are meant to look pretty and like pretty things and so pretty."
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As long as adults and kids don't lay shame on children when they play with an "opposite gender" toy, that's what really matters. Getting the toy makers and marketers to tone down the intensity of gender role cues in store aisles and adverts would help even more. My favorite toy maker as a child was Whammo...nothing gender specific, and the toys were good goofy fun, especially for group play. Nerf comes close to that, though an argument about girls playing with a Nerf football and Nerf sponge dart guns might come up in a conservative household....where concerns about foam and plastic toys' roles within a Biblical paradigm must be a fucking hoot to over hear.
I currently do not comprehend why gender targeted toys are a big deal. I legitimately do not understand why a change in children's play things is being treated like this.
Gender targeted toys tend to reinforce bullshit "gender roles" which reinforce bullshit sexist ideals such as "Men are stronger and should be in charge of trucks, sports, and physical things" and "Women are meant to look pretty and like pretty things and so pretty."
This.
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The subject is interesting enough to warrant a brief chat. To propose it as a serious social issue is sensitivity akin to masochism. I give not one-tenth of a fiddler's fart what toys kids play with. That sorts itself out. Further -- and I hate to be the one to break this to anyone -- while the sexes are most assuredly equal, they are not the same. It's the whole estrogen/testosterone thingy. All the science books are talking about it.
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The subject is interesting enough to warrant a brief chat. To propose it as a serious social issue is sensitivity akin to masochism. I give not one-tenth of a fiddler's fart what toys kids play with. That sorts itself out. Further -- and I hate to be the one to break this to anyone -- while the sexes are most assuredly equal, they are not the same. It's the whole estrogen/testosterone thingy. All the science books are talking about it.
They're not the same, true, but part of those differences are purely cultural. For example, how guys "can't remember dates (as in, anniversary, wedding, stuff like that)" and women can. Or, for another, how women aren't supposed to be sexual. Or, for another, musical tastes. Or fiction tastes. Or pet tastes.
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I'm sure it'll help a bit, but considering that ALL of the dolls and other stereotypically "girly" toys tend to be in "the pink aisles," wherein all of the aisle labels themselves are also pink...TRU probably still has a long way to go.
Kudos to them for making that first step, though!
I am perfectly fine with keeping [dolls*] and [cars*] in separate aisles, as long as it's not labelled 'boys' and 'girls'. Painting one of them pink is a borderline case; I wouldn't call it 'long way to go'.
Childs have different interests and sorting toys by style is fine.
Kudos to Toys'R'us!
Having only daughters, I can totally attest to the fact that their store is segregated. While the depictions of toys in their ads is certainly a step in the right direction, how about not doing exactly what L said? The way that my local store is set up is that the legos and such are in a big section over by the arts stuff, then the younger child toys (Imaginext, Playskool, etc). The toys for older children are on either side of an aisle that is designed to lead the consumer out to the electronics department and registers (also movies, clearance, and other impulse buys). That large aisle is set up so that all of the "girl" toys like kitchen sets, dolls, and dress up stuff is on aisles on one side and all of the "boy" toys like sports, action figures, cars, and guns are on the other side. So you can literally only go to the gender side that you want to. Everything on the girls' side is labelled with shades of pink, yellow, etc. The boys' side is all greys, blues, greens. It's pretty obvious how they want you to shop. Doesn't help that it's goddamn near impossible to find appropriate super hero stuff made/targeted for girls. All of that stuff is specifically made for and targeted at boys (not actually Toys R Us' problem, but more about toy companies in general).
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So toys reinforce gender roles, hm.
And these are bad things because they confine people to their gender role stereotype.
When I was a child, my parents were progressive in giving me toys, except, well, nowadays I wish someone had played catch football with me, and made me get active. While I understand the benefits of progressive parenting, I confess I am unhappy with where this parenting left me during my childhood. I feel I wanted a little more of a masculine inclined upbringing myself, though I can understand others wanting a childhood without stereotypes and harmful gender role confinement from an early age.
Understand that I can see the reasons for getting rid of harmful stereotypes.
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http://www.observer.ug/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=11445:gender-roles-and-chimps-
While both sexes collected sticks to use as toys, females often treated them like dolls, carrying their sticks from tree to tree, patting and cuddling them, and involving them in simple games. In one case, a young male chimp made a small nest next to his own and appeared to put his stick to bed.
The few males in the group that played with stick dolls gave up when they reached adulthood. But females carried on the parental role-playing game and only stopped when they gave birth to their first baby. Two thirds of the chimps who kept stick dolls were female. The findings suggest that biological factors - rather than social influences alone - play some role in shaping toy preferences in childhood.
For a number of years I tried to steer my daughters away from "girl" toys, mostly because I found them insulting and generally annoying. Despite the general discouragement on my part they're both "girly." My eldest is going through her necklaces and nail polish phase. My youngest is carting around a doll her uncle got her.
On the other end of the spectrum my friend's son dresses like a princess some days. No one thinks it's odd, just him being him.
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The subject is interesting enough to warrant a brief chat. To propose it as a serious social issue is sensitivity akin to masochism. I give not one-tenth of a fiddler's fart what toys kids play with. That sorts itself out. Further -- and I hate to be the one to break this to anyone -- while the sexes are most assuredly equal, they are not the same. It's the whole estrogen/testosterone thingy. All the science books are talking about it.
Old Viking, I hate to break it to you, but a lot of what you just spouted is as much utter nonsense as the stuff people say that are along the lines of "Women are always nurturers, men cannot be nurturers". If your science book is saying this, then it's either outdated or written by a rich conservative.
There are hard and fast differences between the sexes, yes, no one is denying this. However, the social differences are all bullshit and artificial and have been designed to keep men and women in arbitrary roles.
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As long as adults and kids don't lay shame on children when they play with an "opposite gender" toy, that's what really matters. Getting the toy makers and marketers to tone down the intensity of gender role cues in store aisles and adverts would help even more. My favorite toy maker as a child was Whammo...nothing gender specific, and the toys were good goofy fun, especially for group play. Nerf comes close to that, though an argument about girls playing with a Nerf football and Nerf sponge dart guns might come up in a conservative household....where concerns about foam and plastic toys' roles within a Biblical paradigm must be a fucking hoot to over hear.
I currently do not comprehend why gender targeted toys are a big deal. I legitimately do not understand why a change in children's play things is being treated like this.
Some parents are very emotionally invested in the idea of their sons being strong little men and their daughters being pretty little ladies.
I played with my brother's Matchbox cars a lot, and enjoyed his Lego sets even more than he did. Yet I still got (and was pressured into playing with) Barbies, even though I never liked them.
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I played with a lot of toys meant for boys and grew up to turn into one. The fundies were right!
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I will tell you right waway the labeling does almost ona subconscious level l=ead people towards certain toys. Like with MLP many bronies were scared to give it a shot
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And it's those same labels that give brony haters fuel, and a sense of justification in their hate.
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not to mention overreacting rom bronies causing the misogyny
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And it's those same labels that give brony haters fuel, and a sense of justification in their hate.
Oh yes, the same insipid, heterosexualist "DON'T YOU SEE IT'S FOR GIRLS?! WHY DO LIKE SHOWS FOR GIRLS?! WHAT THE FUCK?!" argument, instead of something legitimate like "I don't like it, a lot of the premise is not interesting to me" or "I don't like it, it's premise is grating".
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However, the social differences are all bullshit and artificial and have been designed to keep men and women in arbitrary roles.
The trick is of course, in parsing out where biological differences end and where social roles begin. The age-old debate of nature versus nurture.
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Social roles do not develop in a vacuum. They are, in large part, based on biological differences.
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Honestly, I had action figures out the ass and video games galore, and would play catch with my dad. I also loved my pink as flying fuck Easy Bake Oven, my favorite colors are black/red/purple in no particular order, I wear makeup (just eyeliner right now), my favorite Sonic characters growing up (I was a huge Sonic fan) were Shadow and Amy, and I loved The Powerpuff Girls. Gender roles can bugger off.
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Social roles do not develop in a vacuum. They are, in large part, based on biological differences.
No, they are in a large part, based on keeping the balance of power favoring the powerful.
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Social roles do not develop in a vacuum. They are, in large part, based on biological differences.
Well, yeah. Humans are animals, and pretty much all species have traits associated with each gender, so it would be a bit silly to assume that we're magically exempt from this. Thing is, there's a difference between saying, "On average, members of each gender will possess the physiological and mental traits needed to fill specific roles when facing survival situations" vs "Boys who like the colour pink are pussies."
Likewise, it's important to recognize that many roles were originally based around necessity back when survival was actually a major struggle for our species. Without those restrictions in place, people are much freer to explore aspects of their physical and psychological makeup that don't align strictly with what's average for their gender -- something I'd consider a positive, being that it gives all of us the opportunity to live lives that are much more fulfilling, and give a larger number of people the chance to contribute to human progress in a variety of different areas.
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Likewise, it's important to recognize that many roles were originally based around necessity back when survival was actually a major struggle for our species. Without those restrictions in place, people are much freer to explore aspects of their physical and psychological makeup that don't align strictly with what's average for their gender -- something I'd consider a positive, being that it gives all of us the opportunity to live lives that are much more fulfilling, and give a larger number of people the chance to contribute to human progress in a variety of different areas.
Not to mention that a lot of gender norms are arbitrary bullshit.
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Honestly, I had action figures out the ass and video games galore, and would play catch with my dad. I also loved my pink as flying fuck Easy Bake Oven, my favorite colors are black/red/purple in no particular order, I wear makeup (just eyeliner right now), my favorite Sonic characters growing up (I was a huge Sonic fan) were Shadow and Amy, and I loved The Powerpuff Girls. Gender roles can bugger off.
Eeeeeee
Sorry. That was just me, knowing I'm not alone.
I didn't bold Shadow because he was never one of my favorite characters.
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Social roles do not develop in a vacuum. They are, in large part, based on biological differences.
At the beginning, this is true.
The thing is, while social pressure is something that might begin as a biological difference, it also feeds on itself and gets reinforced as time goes by, to the point that in the end, it ends up having very little in common with the original cause.
See also : everything in society. Money, power, tech, all have started out as something simple and due to biological causes, and all have evolved over time into something that has almost nothing to do with biology. Why is it hard to accept that social rules (and in that case, those relating to gender) would have had the same amount of drift?