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Community => Society and History => Topic started by: Svata on December 30, 2015, 12:35:38 am

Title: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Svata on December 30, 2015, 12:35:38 am
Figured I'd put this up, as the old one went ka-poof.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on January 01, 2016, 11:38:14 am
(http://oi63.tinypic.com/20j039c.jpg)
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: guizonde on January 03, 2016, 07:27:54 pm
(http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aeGpK4O_460s.jpg)
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on January 08, 2016, 11:27:34 am
(http://oi65.tinypic.com/33wps0g.jpg)
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: The_Queen on January 08, 2016, 06:03:41 pm
That person needs to use the right version of "you're." Seriously, unless yore an idiot, you should know these things.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on February 13, 2016, 11:02:09 am
Quote
It pisses me off that some of my friends state to eachother “oh, don’t show her that because she’s a feminist” as if it’s a bad thing.
I can laugh at pictures just fine, thanks. Don’t bring my stance on women’s rights into this. Just because you’re narrow minded doesn’t mean that you have to assume I am.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: dpareja on February 15, 2016, 05:36:38 am
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/due-process-neil-macdonald-1.3446739

Context: Right now up here, a former prominent CBC Radio host, Jian Ghomeshi, is on trial for sexual assault. His lawyer is, of course, doing her job by cross-examining witnesses and presenting evidence contradicting their testimony. This has certain people all abuzz about how not automatically believing claims of sexual assault and instead trying to introduce doubt about them somehow violates Canadian values and Charter rights, even though Ghomeshi's right to this is called due process and is guaranteed by said Charter.

And so I, like the author of the article, quote from A Man For All Seasons:

Quote
Roper: "So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!"

More: "Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?"

Roper: "I'd cut down every law in England to do that!"

More: "Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!"
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on February 17, 2016, 03:34:27 pm
Quote
#BelieveWomen, eh?  Riddle me this: if a woman claims she was raped by another woman, and the other woman denies it, which one do you believe?
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: pyro on February 18, 2016, 10:27:39 am
Quote
#BelieveWomen, eh?  Riddle me this: if a woman claims she was raped by another woman, and the other woman denies it, which one do you believe?

The one with the most evidence on her side.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on February 19, 2016, 08:23:51 am
A right wing Christian group in Australia tried to destroy a LGBTQ dance for gay youth by buying out all the tickets so the kids couldn't pick up any...

...but the campaign wasn't selling tickets, it was a crowdfunding campaign (http://www.rawstory.com/2016/02/backfire-right-wing-plot-to-ruin-lgbtq-dance-raises-thousands-for-the-gala-instead/comments/#disqus).

And the bigots funded the dance.  ;D
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Askold on February 19, 2016, 08:50:50 am
Quote
#BelieveWomen, eh?  Riddle me this: if a woman claims she was raped by another woman, and the other woman denies it, which one do you believe?

The one with the most evidence on her side.

The hashtag is about how women should always be believed and asking for evidence of a rape is misogynist.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: pyro on February 19, 2016, 04:34:46 pm
Quote
#BelieveWomen, eh?  Riddle me this: if a woman claims she was raped by another woman, and the other woman denies it, which one do you believe?

The one with the most evidence on her side.

The hashtag is about how women should always be believed and asking for evidence of a rape is misogynist.

But if you're going to be a misogynist no matter which one you disbelieve, you might as well be a correct misogynist.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: TheL on February 19, 2016, 05:43:34 pm
A right wing Christian group in Australia tried to destroy a LGBTQ dance for gay youth by buying out all the tickets so the kids couldn't pick up any...

...but the campaign wasn't selling tickets, it was a crowdfunding campaign (http://www.rawstory.com/2016/02/backfire-right-wing-plot-to-ruin-lgbtq-dance-raises-thousands-for-the-gala-instead/comments/#disqus).

And the bigots funded the dance.  ;D

This is utterly beautiful. <3
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: ironbite on February 19, 2016, 07:27:08 pm
Its the most amazing thing I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Zygarde on February 19, 2016, 10:13:26 pm
It's like trying to put out fire with gasoline. Fucking brilliant.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Damen on March 30, 2016, 03:23:01 pm
(click to show/hide)

I laughed at the comments.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Askold on April 12, 2016, 04:52:54 am
(http://i.imgur.com/kMGR9VC.jpg)
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: TheContrarian on April 14, 2016, 04:24:14 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxaPt_4ANk4
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: rageaholic on April 16, 2016, 04:55:09 pm
This youtube response (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk9KtIXXfv0&index=1&list=LLCk737IDBbr_JVwHeFQspZw) to some article '10 signs your mental illness is made up for attention'. (https://anongalactic.com/10-signs-your-mental-illness-is-made-up-for-attention/) 

The author of the article fails to realize that some of the behaviors he describes (such as not calling someone back) are real symptoms of things like depression and anxiety.  Toward the end of the article, he goes into bashing the mentally ill for not trying hard enough to get better.  What a douche.

Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 23, 2016, 10:05:33 am
Quote
As someone with a crippling fear of using public restrooms, let me just say that these laws are absolutely fucking terrible. Being forced to use the bathroom is public is a terrible enough experience on its own without being hounded about your gender identity. Say you really need to piss but all the stalls are taken. Not only do you have to stand there and hold it in, but you and have to listen to a bunch of people you don’t know voiding their bowels and bladders. Sometimes when they’re done they don’t even both to wipe the seat or flush. They just leave the crap sitting in the stall, rendering it unusable.

Why make the process more embarrassing and gross than it already is by default?
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: TheL on May 03, 2016, 04:49:21 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxaPt_4ANk4

How is this BS in any way the best of anything?
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: pyro on May 05, 2016, 02:20:55 am
(click to show/hide)

I ... am extremely tempted to repost this thing on FSTDT. It's probably the funniest thing you've posted in all the time I've been here.  :)
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: davedan on May 05, 2016, 03:34:30 am
Don't be mean that's probably Conty's video. I see your mum let you decorate your room. Or did she let you use the camera in another part of the house.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on May 16, 2016, 08:57:36 am
Quote
What these people need to understand is that transgender is not itself a gender. You still are either male or female, just, due to an accident of biochemistry, your body didn't get the memo.

People like Captain Safetypin who turn themselves into mix and match sideshow freaks aren't transgender, it's not about being the opposite sex, it's about being special, and being as weird and as in your face about it as possible to deliberately freak other people out, so you can then get victim points and get on your high horse about how they're oppressing you.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Even Then on May 16, 2016, 04:52:20 pm
Context? Because outside of it (and possibly even within it), that's sounding uncomfortably like:

 "Nonbinary genders and/or nonbinary gender presentation are Freakshows, and the people who openly express themselves in such a manner are deliberately putting them on for you, Cis Reader. Because the notion of them actually living their truths is offensively impossible."
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: SCarpelan on May 16, 2016, 05:26:39 pm
And you can identify with a particular gender but express it in a non-standard way.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ironchew on May 16, 2016, 05:28:39 pm
Quote
What these people need to understand is that transgender is not itself a gender. You still are either male or female, just, due to an accident of biochemistry, your body didn't get the memo.

People like Captain Safetypin who turn themselves into mix and match sideshow freaks aren't transgender, it's not about being the opposite sex, it's about being special, and being as weird and as in your face about it as possible to deliberately freak other people out, so you can then get victim points and get on your high horse about how they're oppressing you.

You sure you wanted to put that here and not on [Not-Good] Things People Say on the Internet?

The nameless source sounds like a raging transphobe to me.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on May 16, 2016, 06:02:21 pm
Context? Because outside of it (and possibly even within it), that's sounding uncomfortably like:

 "Nonbinary genders and/or nonbinary gender presentation are Freakshows, and the people who openly express themselves in such a manner are deliberately putting them on for you, Cis Reader. Because the notion of them actually living their truths is offensively impossible."

They're talking about "transtrenders."
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Even Then on May 16, 2016, 06:14:29 pm
Do you mean "cis people pretending to be transgender for... some reason" transtrenders or "noncis people who experience their gender in a way that does not fall into a gender binary and aren't closeted about it" transtrenders? Because calling the latter kind "transtrenders" is skeevy as nobs.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on May 16, 2016, 06:32:45 pm
Do you mean "cis people pretending to be transgender for... some reason" transtrenders or "noncis people who experience their gender in a way that does not fall into a gender binary and aren't closeted about it" transtrenders? Because calling the latter kind "transtrenders" is skeevy as nobs.

The former.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ironchew on May 16, 2016, 06:34:03 pm
Do you mean "cis people pretending to be transgender for... some reason" transtrenders or "noncis people who experience their gender in a way that does not fall into a gender binary and aren't closeted about it" transtrenders? Because calling the latter kind "transtrenders" is skeevy as nobs.

The former.

What do you hope to gain from determining whether a trans person is "faking it" or not? It's hard to imagine any outcome that wouldn't further the cause of institutional transphobia.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Even Then on May 16, 2016, 07:46:13 pm
So how can you define that any given trans person is "faking it", aside from them literally coming out and saying "I'm actually cis but I'm pretending to be trans for cool points even though trans people are dehumanized pretty much all around"?
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Sigmaleph on May 16, 2016, 07:47:06 pm
Do you mean "cis people pretending to be transgender for... some reason" transtrenders or "noncis people who experience their gender in a way that does not fall into a gender binary and aren't closeted about it" transtrenders? Because calling the latter kind "transtrenders" is skeevy as nobs.

The former.

Um. Cis people saying they are trans is a thing that happens enough to be a problem now?
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: davedan on May 16, 2016, 08:08:07 pm
Do you mean "cis people pretending to be transgender for... some reason" transtrenders or "noncis people who experience their gender in a way that does not fall into a gender binary and aren't closeted about it" transtrenders? Because calling the latter kind "transtrenders" is skeevy as nobs.

The former.

Um. Cis people saying they are trans is a thing that happens enough to be a problem now?

Apparently it's a big problem in public toilets.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on May 16, 2016, 08:46:43 pm
So how can you define that any given trans person is "faking it", aside from them literally coming out and saying "I'm actually cis but I'm pretending to be trans for cool points even though trans people are dehumanized pretty much all around"?

They outright said they didn't experience dysphoria, but still considered themselves trans.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Even Then on May 16, 2016, 09:21:05 pm
So, your criteria for "fake trans" is "doesn't experience body dysphoria".
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on May 16, 2016, 09:37:55 pm
So, your criteria for "fake trans" is "doesn't experience body dysphoria".

Isn't experiencing gender dysphoria the definition of being trans?  Before SRS, of course.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Even Then on May 16, 2016, 10:03:25 pm
Actually, no. (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transgender) a dictionary definition is not an argument in and of itself; but if it was instated into a dictionary, then obviously a notably large amount of people uses the word in that fashion. EDIT: And yeah, the definition has some problems (assuming that gender identities correspond with sex to begin with, equating being transgender with being a transvestite) but it still disproves the notion that the """official""" definition of being transgender includes dysphoria.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: The_Queen on May 16, 2016, 10:53:26 pm
So, your criteria for "fake trans" is "doesn't experience body dysphoria".

Isn't experiencing gender dysphoria the definition of being trans?  Before SRS, of course.

Are you sure that your brother is trans?
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Sigmaleph on May 16, 2016, 11:33:33 pm
So how can you define that any given trans person is "faking it", aside from them literally coming out and saying "I'm actually cis but I'm pretending to be trans for cool points even though trans people are dehumanized pretty much all around"?

They outright said they didn't experience dysphoria, but still considered themselves trans.

People mean different things by dysphoria. For some, it means an intense negative feeling associated with their gender. For others, it's just a preference to be treated as another gender. Usually, when people say they  are trans but "don't have dysphoria" they mean "I can live with my ASAB but would be much happier with another gender". Which is, y'know, still dysphoria and still a good enough to say you're trans.

(like, given the diagnostic criteria for gender identity disorder, it's really really hard to say you're trans and not qualify. Asking that people use different pronouns for you is halfway there)
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ironchew on May 16, 2016, 11:52:59 pm
UP, you presented a quote referring to some trans people as "mix and match sideshow freaks" (but don't worry it's not bigotry because they're "faking it") as the best of social justice. Your endorsement raises a few eyebrows around here, but your continued defense and clarification of it should raise red flags.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: SCarpelan on May 17, 2016, 09:57:03 am
If somebody really is "faking it" and you as a casual observer give them the benefit of a doubt there is little harm done. If they aren't and you mock them thinking they are faking you participate in causing emotional damage to them. Cost-benefit analysis of each action tips the weights clearly to one direction specially when you remember the suicide statistics among transpeople.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on May 17, 2016, 10:11:46 am
If somebody really is "faking it" and you as a casual observer give them the benefit of a doubt there is little harm done. If they aren't and you mock them thinking they are faking you participate in causing emotional damage to them. Cost-benefit analysis of each action tips the weights clearly to one direction specially when you remember the suicide statistics among transpeople.

What if they say "truscum" unironically?
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: The_Queen on May 17, 2016, 10:20:28 am
If somebody really is "faking it" and you as a casual observer give them the benefit of a doubt there is little harm done. If they aren't and you mock them thinking they are faking you participate in causing emotional damage to them. Cost-benefit analysis of each action tips the weights clearly to one direction specially when you remember the suicide statistics among transpeople.

What if they say "truscum" unironically?

What if a pre-teen boy popped his first boner and splooged in his parents' spaghetti sauce? Seriously, why is it that you're always the one who seems to care so much about some miniscule portion of the internet? Do you really think we're just going to forget your attempt to deny genderqueer people respect for not living up to your bullshit social standards of gender?
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: ironbite on May 17, 2016, 04:51:46 pm
So, your criteria for "fake trans" is "doesn't experience body dysphoria".

Isn't experiencing gender dysphoria the definition of being trans?  Before SRS, of course.

Are you sure that your brother is trans?

Are we sure he has a brother in the first place?
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Even Then on May 17, 2016, 05:20:18 pm
If somebody really is "faking it" and you as a casual observer give them the benefit of a doubt there is little harm done. If they aren't and you mock them thinking they are faking you participate in causing emotional damage to them. Cost-benefit analysis of each action tips the weights clearly to one direction specially when you remember the suicide statistics among transpeople.

What if they say "truscum" unironically?

Then they would still have a gender identity that doesn't match the gender that was assigned to them at birth. This isn't hard.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: davedan on May 17, 2016, 06:37:52 pm
If somebody really is "faking it" and you as a casual observer give them the benefit of a doubt there is little harm done. If they aren't and you mock them thinking they are faking you participate in causing emotional damage to them. Cost-benefit analysis of each action tips the weights clearly to one direction specially when you remember the suicide statistics among transpeople.

What if they say "truscum" unironically?

What if a pre-teen boy popped his first boner and splooged in his parents' spaghetti sauce? Seriously, why is it that you're always the one who seems to care so much about some miniscule portion of the internet? Do you really think we're just going to forget your attempt to deny genderqueer people respect for not living up to your bullshit social standards of gender?

Spaghetti sauce is so passe - Philip Roth already detailed in 'Portnoy's Complaint' fucking the family's dinner and putting it back in the fridge only for it to be eaten later. Launched a successful writing career. Whereas ripping it off and fucking a pie (that no one even ate if I remember correctly) launched a series of films that was below the standard set by Police Academy.

Also what about "Free Speech"TM? Are you going to attack that person and shut down what they say just because you don't like it? OUTRAGE! What if they said 'truscum unironically while pleasuring themselves to pictures of 8 year olds in their togs?"
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Sigmaleph on May 17, 2016, 07:13:54 pm
If somebody really is "faking it" and you as a casual observer give them the benefit of a doubt there is little harm done. If they aren't and you mock them thinking they are faking you participate in causing emotional damage to them. Cost-benefit analysis of each action tips the weights clearly to one direction specially when you remember the suicide statistics among transpeople.

What if they say "truscum" unironically?

...then you can dislike their politics without denying their gender identity? This is not hard.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on May 17, 2016, 10:41:56 pm
Maybe I'm wrong about this.  But hear me out.  See, when I see somebody claim to be trans and yet admit to not experiencing dysphoria, my first thought is that they're some fauxgressive snowflake who decided to use the label like it's a fashion accessory.  To me, it's like all those idiots who diagnose themselves with autism/ADHD/schizophrenia/whatever.  Or to go back a little bit, like the political lesbians of yesteryear.

Why do I think this?  My reasoning is simple when you get right down to it.  The definition of "gender dysphoria" is feeling uncomfortable with your assigned gender.  Logically, this means that people who don't have gender dysphoria have no problem with their assigned gender.  Riddle me this: if you feel comfortable with your assigned gender, how can you be trans?  The way I see it, it's like claiming to be diabetic when you have normal blood sugar.

And that's not even getting into how repulsive tucute/transtrender people can be:

(https://i.imgur.com/mxXFQEA.png)

Then again, I could be talking out of my ass, so I'm willing to listen to evidence claiming otherwise.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: ironbite on May 17, 2016, 11:15:18 pm
......you....

Ironbite-*goes to get a stiff drink*
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Sigmaleph on May 17, 2016, 11:49:47 pm
Maybe I'm wrong about this.  But hear me out.  See, when I see somebody claim to be trans and yet admit to not experiencing dysphoria, my first thought is that they're some fauxgressive snowflake who decided to use the label like it's a fashion accessory.  To me, it's like all those idiots who diagnose themselves with autism/ADHD/schizophrenia/whatever.  Or to go back a little bit, like the political lesbians of yesteryear.

Why do I think this?  My reasoning is simple when you get right down to it.  The definition of "gender dysphoria" is feeling uncomfortable with your assigned gender.  Logically, this means that people who don't have gender dysphoria have no problem with their assigned gender.  Riddle me this: if you feel comfortable with your assigned gender, how can you be trans?  The way I see it, it's like claiming to be diabetic when you have normal blood sugar.

[image snipped]

Then again, I could be talking out of my ass, so I'm willing to listen to evidence claiming otherwise.

I'm pretty sure I already addressed this. Like, a handful of posts above yours (http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=7083.msg297048#msg297048). The way people are using the word 'dysphoria' varies, so you're drawing the wrong conclusions from it by projecting your definition onto theirs.

Do you disagree or find this insufficient?

(As an aside: if cis people want to transition, socially or medically or otherwise, I'm all in favour of them doing that. Can't imagine why they would, but it's their right)
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Even Then on May 17, 2016, 11:52:39 pm
So where are you pulling "has no discomfort with their assigned gender" from? If """"transtrenders"""" were perfectly comfortable with their assigned gender, they wouldn't be saying that they're something else, now would they? If everyone calls you a woman and at some point you just get tired of correcting them or don't give enough of a shit to, do you magically become a woman?

Direct questions. Actually, come to think of it, the ones in my thread in Flame and Burn are also direct questions now. You know. The one you haven't responded to in two weeks.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on May 17, 2016, 11:58:38 pm
So where are you pulling "has no discomfort with their assigned gender" from? If """"transtrenders"""" were perfectly comfortable with their assigned gender, they wouldn't be saying that they're something else, now would they? If everyone calls you a woman and at some point you just get tired of correcting them or don't give enough of a shit to, do you magically become a woman?

Direct questions. Actually, come to think of it, the ones in my thread in Flame and Burn are also direct questions now. You know. The one you haven't responded to in two weeks.

I'm busy.  I'll get to them in good time.

But to answer your questions, I already established that these people admit to not experiencing dysphoria; ergo, they are comfortable with their assigned gender.  As for why they claim to be trans, I think it's usually because either a) they want to feel special or b) they want more Oppression PointsTM.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: rookie on May 18, 2016, 12:03:43 am
According to your research, what percentage of these people are actually out there?
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on May 18, 2016, 12:11:32 am
According to your research, what percentage of these people are actually out there?

Why does that matter?  I don't care how small a group is, I'll call out bullshit when I see it.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Even Then on May 18, 2016, 12:24:44 am
Not too busy to tell trans people they're not trans enough for a cis man's standards, apparently.

Maybe they use the word "dysphoria" in a different way than you. There are several definitions for it, you know. It's entirely possible that the people you're deciding aren't trans are using it to mean "body dysphoria" (not having a need to physically transition), which is a connotation that exists. Or, like Sigma said, an entirely different category of dysphoria than what you're using. Have these people ever actually said "my gender is the gender that was assigned to me at birth"? No? Then let's apply Occam's Razor: which is more likely? A notable-enough amount of these """transtrenders""" lying in the exact same scheme for the exact same purpose, or them expressing their actual selves? (And before you start, I'm not saying there isn't at least one person that has lied about being noncis. But your reasoning for what makes a """transtrender""" is spotty beyond all hell.)

Actually, how do you define dysphoria?

Also, your diabetes analogy is flawed because a gender is not a physical state of wellness or lack thereof, and comparing being noncis to having a disease is pretty iffy.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Skybison on May 18, 2016, 12:26:04 am
Who the hell is Captain Safetypin anyway?

I confess I don't know enough about trans issues or what some of these words mean, but if someone says they're trans I'm going to assume they're telling the truth.  Sure they're might be some equivalents of Tom McMaster out there but I assume it's not very many.

UP, when you admit that you might be talking out of you're ass, and people who are trans tell you that you are in fact talking out of your ass, it's time to stop talking.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Even Then on May 18, 2016, 12:30:15 am
Bottom line, "I don't have dysphoria" =/= "I am the gender that was given at birth" for reasons already elaborated upon.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on May 18, 2016, 12:44:02 am
Not too busy to tell trans people they're not trans enough for a cis man's standards, apparently.

Maybe they use the word "dysphoria" in a different way than you. There are several definitions for it, you know. It's entirely possible that the people you're deciding aren't trans are using it to mean "body dysphoria" (not having a need to physically transition), which is a connotation that exists. Or, like Sigma said, an entirely different category of dysphoria than what you're using. Have these people ever actually said "my gender is the gender that was assigned to me at birth"? No? Then let's apply Occam's Razor: which is more likely? A notable-enough amount of these """transtrenders""" lying in the exact same scheme for the exact same purpose, or them expressing their actual selves? (And before you start, I'm not saying there isn't at least one person that has lied about being noncis. But your reasoning for what makes a """transtrender""" is spotty beyond all hell.)

Actually, how do you define dysphoria?

Also, your diabetes analogy is flawed because a gender is not a physical state of wellness or lack thereof, and comparing being noncis to having a disease is pretty iffy.

Huh.  Good points.

Fine then.  I'll drop it.  At least for now
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: The_Queen on May 18, 2016, 11:32:55 am
Maybe I'm wrong about this.  But hear me out.  See, when I see somebody claim to be trans and yet admit to not experiencing dysphoria, my first thought is that they're some fauxgressive snowflake who decided to use the label like it's a fashion accessory.  To me, it's like all those idiots who diagnose themselves with autism/ADHD/schizophrenia/whatever.  Or to go back a little bit, like the political lesbians of yesteryear.

Why do I think this?  My reasoning is simple when you get right down to it.  The definition of "gender dysphoria" is feeling uncomfortable with your assigned gender.  Logically, this means that people who don't have gender dysphoria have no problem with their assigned gender.  Riddle me this: if you feel comfortable with your assigned gender, how can you be trans?  The way I see it, it's like claiming to be diabetic when you have normal blood sugar.

And that's not even getting into how repulsive tucute/transtrender people can be:


Bullshit, your post specifically took umbrage with those "who turn themselves into mix and match sideshow freaks aren't transgender, it's not about being the opposite sex, it's about being special." Your post ridiculed those who do not conform to and reinforce the gender binary--most notably genderqueer people. Seriously dude, why does this bother you? They're not hurting anyone. They don't identify as male or female: but neither or an in-between. All they're really doing is blurring the lines behind bullshit social norms surrounding gender (and gender as a social construct is silly). They're not hurting people, they're active members of the transgender community (words matter, transgender is a catchall for any gender-variance and included genderqueer people, transsexual is one who typically transitions through hormonal or surgical means). Just because you found an idiot on the internet does not reinforce you post, and subsequent posts, ridiculing genderqueer people for not fitting into the gender-binary.

Second, both you and the post tied gender dysphoria to genitals, saying "Isn't experiencing gender dysphoria the definition of being trans?  Before SRS, of course." What you post and what you say repesents an outdated view by the medical professionals that was abandoned in the early 80's. I repeat, there is no qualification about feeling dysphoria regarding your genitals in order to be trans. Your post subsequently erased and ridiculed them as phonies for not living up to your expectation of a transsexual. There are a number of trans-individuals who do not want reassignment surgery, they are called non-ops. The prevalence is more common in FtMs than MtFs, and that is why I asked--twice--if your brother is trans, which of course Paragon never responds.

And that is pretty shitty dude. You make up having a trans-individual in your family for one debate with Ghoti so that you could tell him that trans-people need to glorify cis-culture if we want rights. You know, that whole "win the hearts and minds" bullshit. Almost as if the onus for solving transphobia should fall on trans-individuals to be nicer and better people, instead of on cissexuals (as an aggregated group) to...you know... NOT DISCRIMINATE. The fact that you would make up such a story highlights your intellectual dishonesty. You don't care about pesky things like facts or reality (with its known liberal bias), you care only about pushing your misogynist and transphobic agenda. The fact that you made up such a story also proves that you are a concern troll, interested only in pulling the board towards your opinions. Funny, that most of those issues involve women, and you like to take the side that is harmful to women.

Finally, I stopped counting, but what number is this for Paragon saying stupid things about trans-people? I'm pretty sure we're in the double digits here, I just stopped counting. Not that it matters, he'll still proudly proclaim his "support" for trans-people after he does his mental gymnastics to justifies transphobic posts like sleeping with a "trap" or murdering a trans-woman in a video game.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Sigmaleph on May 18, 2016, 12:50:39 pm
Not too busy to tell trans people they're not trans enough for a cis man's standards, apparently.

Maybe they use the word "dysphoria" in a different way than you. There are several definitions for it, you know. It's entirely possible that the people you're deciding aren't trans are using it to mean "body dysphoria" (not having a need to physically transition), which is a connotation that exists. Or, like Sigma said, an entirely different category of dysphoria than what you're using. Have these people ever actually said "my gender is the gender that was assigned to me at birth"? No? Then let's apply Occam's Razor: which is more likely? A notable-enough amount of these """transtrenders""" lying in the exact same scheme for the exact same purpose, or them expressing their actual selves? (And before you start, I'm not saying there isn't at least one person that has lied about being noncis. But your reasoning for what makes a """transtrender""" is spotty beyond all hell.)

Actually, how do you define dysphoria?

Also, your diabetes analogy is flawed because a gender is not a physical state of wellness or lack thereof, and comparing being noncis to having a disease is pretty iffy.

Huh.  Good points.

Fine then.  I'll drop it.  At least for now

Y'know, when I noticed the 1 pt text, I was half hoping you'd try for eppur si muove. Shame.

Anyway. I'm not sure if you actually expected everyone to miss that, or if you didn't. I'm also not sure which would be worse.

So. I'm kind of pissed off right now. Direct questions:

Do you think people have to binary trans people who experience body dysphoria to be legitimately trans? If not, what do you think it takes for someone to be legitimately trans, and why have you judged some people who call themselves trans to fail that?
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on May 18, 2016, 01:12:36 pm
Well, I wanted to put this behind me, but I guess some people just can't let it go.

Maybe I'm wrong about this.  But hear me out.  See, when I see somebody claim to be trans and yet admit to not experiencing dysphoria, my first thought is that they're some fauxgressive snowflake who decided to use the label like it's a fashion accessory.  To me, it's like all those idiots who diagnose themselves with autism/ADHD/schizophrenia/whatever.  Or to go back a little bit, like the political lesbians of yesteryear.

Why do I think this?  My reasoning is simple when you get right down to it.  The definition of "gender dysphoria" is feeling uncomfortable with your assigned gender.  Logically, this means that people who don't have gender dysphoria have no problem with their assigned gender.  Riddle me this: if you feel comfortable with your assigned gender, how can you be trans?  The way I see it, it's like claiming to be diabetic when you have normal blood sugar.

And that's not even getting into how repulsive tucute/transtrender people can be:


Bullshit, your post specifically took umbrage with those "who turn themselves into mix and match sideshow freaks aren't transgender, it's not about being the opposite sex, it's about being special." Your post ridiculed those who do not conform to and reinforce the gender binary--most notably genderqueer people. Seriously dude, why does this bother you? They're not hurting anyone. They don't identify as male or female: but neither or an in-between. All they're really doing is blurring the lines behind bullshit social norms surrounding gender (and gender as a social construct is silly). They're not hurting people, they're active members of the transgender community (words matter, transgender is a catchall for any gender-variance and included genderqueer people, transsexual is one who typically transitions through hormonal or surgical means). Just because you found an idiot on the internet does not reinforce you post, and subsequent posts, ridiculing genderqueer people for not fitting into the gender-binary.

Ah, I think I see the problem.  See, you're using the broader definition of "trans", while I'm using the narrower one.  Seems like we're operating on a miscommunication.

Second, both you and the post tied gender dysphoria to genitals, saying "Isn't experiencing gender dysphoria the definition of being trans?  Before SRS, of course." What you post and what you say repesents an outdated view by the medical professionals that was abandoned in the early 80's. I repeat, there is no qualification about feeling dysphoria regarding your genitals in order to be trans. Your post subsequently erased and ridiculed them as phonies for not living up to your expectation of a transsexual. There are a number of trans-individuals who do not want reassignment surgery, they are called non-ops. The prevalence is more common in FtMs than MtFs, and that is why I asked--twice--if your brother is trans, which of course Paragon never responds.

Okay, that was my bad.  That was a typo I never bothered to correct.  When I typed "my brother," I meant "my cousin."  As for why I didn't answer before, I was too embarrassed to admit it.

And that is pretty shitty dude. You make up having a trans-individual in your family for one debate with Ghoti so that you could tell him that trans-people need to glorify cis-culture if we want rights. You know, that whole "win the hearts and minds" bullshit. Almost as if the onus for solving transphobia should fall on trans-individuals to be nicer and better people, instead of on cissexuals (as an aggregated group) to...you know... NOT DISCRIMINATE. The fact that you would make up such a story highlights your intellectual dishonesty. You don't care about pesky things like facts or reality (with its known liberal bias), you care only about pushing your misogynist and transphobic agenda. The fact that you made up such a story also proves that you are a concern troll, interested only in pulling the board towards your opinions. Funny, that most of those issues involve women, and you like to take the side that is harmful to women.

Harmful to radflakes, maybe.

Not too busy to tell trans people they're not trans enough for a cis man's standards, apparently.

Maybe they use the word "dysphoria" in a different way than you. There are several definitions for it, you know. It's entirely possible that the people you're deciding aren't trans are using it to mean "body dysphoria" (not having a need to physically transition), which is a connotation that exists. Or, like Sigma said, an entirely different category of dysphoria than what you're using. Have these people ever actually said "my gender is the gender that was assigned to me at birth"? No? Then let's apply Occam's Razor: which is more likely? A notable-enough amount of these """transtrenders""" lying in the exact same scheme for the exact same purpose, or them expressing their actual selves? (And before you start, I'm not saying there isn't at least one person that has lied about being noncis. But your reasoning for what makes a """transtrender""" is spotty beyond all hell.)

Actually, how do you define dysphoria?

Also, your diabetes analogy is flawed because a gender is not a physical state of wellness or lack thereof, and comparing being noncis to having a disease is pretty iffy.

Huh.  Good points.

Fine then.  I'll drop it.  At least for now

Y'know, when I noticed the 1 pt text, I was half hoping you'd try for eppur si muove. Shame.

Anyway. I'm not sure if you actually expected everyone to miss that, or if you didn't. I'm also not sure which would be worse.

So. I'm kind of pissed off right now. Direct questions:

Do you think people have to binary trans people who experience body dysphoria to be legitimately trans? If not, what do you think it takes for someone to be legitimately trans, and why have you judged some people who call themselves trans to fail that?

Again, we're operating off two different definitions.  The way I define "transgender" is "somebody who is uncomfortable/unhappy with their assigned gender."  I view it as being a subset of genderqueer, not the other way around.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Canadian Mojo on May 18, 2016, 01:13:40 pm
It's kind of funny that diabetes should be brought up and pointed out that it is a flawed analogy. If you will excuse the disease comparisons I think a valid, but different comparison can be made.

I have type 1 diabetes; it's impacts on my daily life are massive and ultimately it will probably be a significant factor in an extremely unpleasant journey to an early grave. I've been living with this fact of life for sixteen years. There is nothing I can do to change this. Not surprisingly, depression is quite a common side effect. I don't suffer from it. In fact, I'm quite at peace with with myself and the circumstances of my life. I still don't want to be diabetic. If there was a way out I'd take it. (theoretically there is, but experimental surgery and anti-rejection drugs for a temporary reprieve aren't an improvement)

Just because I'm not upset by the disease doesn't mean I don't have it. Just because a transgendered person can accept that things aren't right with them doesn't mean they're not transgendered.

At best this is only passingly similar to what a transgendered person goes through, but it is at least an attempt to see things from other peoples perspectives, and it's a hell-of-a-lot more than you ever attempt UP.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: ironbite on May 18, 2016, 01:17:00 pm
There are certain topics that I will comment on with all the arrogance of an expert.  There are certain topics I won't touch because I can't ever put myself in the shoes of someone who the topic is concerning.

Ironbite-I suggest UP, you do the same.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on May 18, 2016, 01:20:20 pm
There are certain topics that I will comment on with all the arrogance of an expert.  There are certain topics I won't touch because I can't ever put myself in the shoes of someone who the topic is concerning.

Ironbite-I suggest UP, you do the same.

Sound advice.  Which is why I went to an LGBT forum and asked the question.  Here's what I think is the most succinct response to "do you need dysphoria to be trans?":

Quote
No, because it's not a part of the definition of being trans. However, as many have already mentioned, how a person experiences gender dysphoria can vary from person to person, and I've not encountered a single trans person who didn't experience gender dysphoria in some way at some point in their life.

So it's a bit like this metaphor: do you have to have fur to be a mammal? No, you have to be a part of the mammalia class. But pretty much all mammals have some kind of hair at some point in their life (even if it's just tiny peach fuzz).

And the vast majority of the answers were along these lines.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: ironbite on May 18, 2016, 01:25:01 pm
*facelaws*

God you're fucking stupid.

Ironbite-you're worse then Skyfire.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Eiki-mun on May 18, 2016, 02:46:12 pm
UP right now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytWz0qVvBZ0
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on May 18, 2016, 04:56:37 pm
*facelaws*

God you're fucking stupid.

Ironbite-you're worse then Skyfire.

Protip: if you want to question somebody else's intelligence, don't mix up your homophones.

But I'll bite.  Why do you think I'm stupid?
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: davedan on May 18, 2016, 05:29:43 pm
I think he got the homophones right. 'you're' as in 'you are'. As opposed to your fucking stupid, in that the stupid belongs to you.

But then again mixing up there, their and they're and your and you're and here and hear is a lot fucking easier than cousin and brother. In fact I don't see how that can possibly be a typo.

One thing I do admire about you UP is that you have huge brass hide. I mean you just got caught in a massive lie and didn't even blink.

You are truly Christlike in your ability to dissemble and harder than a viagra laced high school footbal team.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on May 18, 2016, 05:34:06 pm
I think he got the homophones right. 'you're' as in 'you are'. As opposed to your fucking stupid, in that the stupid belongs to you.

But then again mixing up there, their and they're and your and you're and here and hear is a lot fucking easier than cousin and brother. In fact I don't see how that can possibly be a typo.

One thing I do admire about you UP is that you have huge brass hide. I mean you just got caught in a massive lie and didn't even blink.

You are truly Christlike in your ability to dissemble and harder than a viagra laced high school footbal team.

I'm talking about than vs. then.  And sometimes, when I get really emotional, I don't think clearly when I type.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: The_Queen on May 18, 2016, 05:38:27 pm
And sometimes, when I get really emotional, I don't think clearly when I type.

My head is swimming with punchlines.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: davedan on May 18, 2016, 05:39:11 pm
Technically not a homophone as they are pronounced differently but...

Its still only one letter as opposed to c-o-u-s-i-n or b-r-o-t-h-e-r. Then again are you a pacific islander? Was he/she your cousin-brother?

Then again do you really expect anyone to believe that a person who would lie about something like that to argue on the internet wouldn't lie about a typo?

You have less credibility than the guy who defended wanking to 8 year olds! oh fuck that was you too.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: davedan on May 18, 2016, 05:40:40 pm
And sometimes, when I get really emotional, I don't think clearly when I type.

My head is swimming with punchlines.

Don't hold back, the time for mocking UP is now.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: ironbite on May 18, 2016, 05:44:45 pm
*facelaws*

God you're fucking stupid.

Ironbite-you're worse then Skyfire.

Protip: if you want to question somebody else's intelligence, don't mix up your homophones.

But I'll bite.  Why do you think I'm stupid?

Are you...are you actually asking that?  2 years of your bullshit and you're asking that?  Really?  REALLY?  REALLY?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vxiQ9JCKvE

I don't even know with you.  And the fact that you can't seem to realize the difference between your and you're just cements your stupidity.  To properly vent on how stupid you are, we'd have to be in flame and burn.  But as to why I declared you're really fucking stupid, well look at your post before my declaration.  You say you went to a LGBT forum and posed the question that started this whole bullshit trip down the black hole that is your mind.  Only thing is...what LGBT forum?  We only have your word, a word who's credit is so low the devil is wondering why he's got the IRS on his ass, on that.  You could be just making up the quote you posted.  Not very had to do with the board software.  My advice buckaroo is very simple.  Drop.  It.  Just drop whatever bullshit you seem to be spewing here, take the loss, and walk away from it.  Because declaring yourself an expert on transphobia and how transgendered folk aren't really transgendered because they don't suffer dysphoria is really really really annoying.

Ironbite-and we're traveling down a road that you've already been shot on the side of again.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: The_Queen on May 18, 2016, 06:07:39 pm
Paragon: direct question. When you went to the board to ask about the definition of trans, did you do it recently or 37 weeks ago?
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: SCarpelan on May 18, 2016, 06:32:48 pm
I see what you are doing there, Queen, but I don't think it's necessary. He implied he asked the question after the advice and it was clear enough that the "misunderstanding" wouldn't have happened if he had read the answer before posting here.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: The_Queen on May 18, 2016, 06:54:55 pm
I see what you are doing there, Queen, but I don't think it's necessary. He implied he asked the question after the advice and it was clear enough that the "misunderstanding" wouldn't have happened if he had read the answer before posting here.

I may be misunderstanding what you're saying, but I believe you mean that he asked the LGBTQ board to ask about the definition after the "misunderstanding" here (which is the last three pages of this thread).

However, I asked the question because if you google search what he quoted from the "LGBT" board (hint, it's Quora.com), the answer he quoted was posted on August 29, 2015 (37 weeks ago, yes I counted). This indicates that he didn't go to an LGBTQ forum and ask the question (like he claims he did), but went looking on the internet for something he could offer as an answer that conforms substantially to what he claims (as his quote does, saying "So it's a bit like this [sic] metaphor: do you have to have fur to be a mammal? No, you have to be a part of the mammalia class. But pretty much all mammals have some kind of hair at some point in their life (even if it's just tiny peach fuzz").

I'm not surprised to have caught our captain of intellectual dishonesty in a lie, but for the life of me I just wish that our Christlike intellectual could be a little bit more Christlike, and tell the fucking truth.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: SCarpelan on May 18, 2016, 07:18:36 pm
I did the same search and almost made a post about it before I saw yours. I meant that the trick is not necessary, the fact that the question is so old pretty much confirms he is lying.

Edited to clarify: I thought you were trying to give him more rope with which to hang himself and thought that wasn't necessary anymore.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on May 18, 2016, 07:39:02 pm
Why would I lie?  I've got no reason to.  If I really did take the post from Quora, I'd have said I was doing research, and that I planned to ask the question myself.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: The_Queen on May 18, 2016, 07:42:12 pm
Why would I lie?  I've got no reason to.  If I really did take the post from Quora, I'd have said I was doing research, and that I planned to ask the question myself.

After everything you've pulled these last three years, do you think anyone is going to believe that?
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: ironbite on May 18, 2016, 07:48:57 pm
The sad thing is...he does.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Skybison on May 18, 2016, 08:27:04 pm
...Wow.  I was prepared to take his word for it that he had actually gone to an LGBT site and asked.  If you really did just provide a link to the website and settle the matter, or admit you were wrong.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on May 18, 2016, 08:33:04 pm
...Wow.  I was prepared to take his word for it that he had actually gone to an LGBT site and asked.  If you really did just provide a link to the website and settle the matter, or admit you were wrong.

Why should I?  It'll just go in one ear and out the other, like all my evidence that goes against the grain.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: ironbite on May 18, 2016, 08:34:51 pm
Jesus fuck you're stupid.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: The_Queen on May 18, 2016, 08:47:35 pm
...Wow.  I was prepared to take his word for it that he had actually gone to an LGBT site and asked.  If you really did just provide a link to the website and settle the matter, or admit you were wrong.

Why should I?  It'll just go in one ear and out the other, like all my evidence that goes against the grain.

He just offered you an out. If you post a link to this LGBTQ forum, then we cannot argue you're wrong because you'll have just provided proof to the contrary.

But, in the interest of goading you to admit you lied, and that you are a liar, I will present my source. After google searching the first sentence of Paragon's quote (in quotations), only one source popped up: this one (https://www.quora.com/Do-people-have-to-experience-gender-dysphoria-in-order-to-be-transsexual-or-transgender). Specifically, the second answer (again, dated late August of 2015) was a verbatim copy of the quote he provided us, down to the simile (uses "like") at the end.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Skybison on May 18, 2016, 08:54:01 pm
...Wow.  I was prepared to take his word for it that he had actually gone to an LGBT site and asked.  If you really did just provide a link to the website and settle the matter, or admit you were wrong.

Why should I?  It'll just go in one ear and out the other, like all my evidence that goes against the grain.

No it wouldn't, it would be goddamn fucking irrefutable proof.

This is different from something like not being convinced that gamergate policies itself.  You can link to ggers that do, but that doesn't prove it because we can respond "okay those ggers do, but most don't".

This is a strict either/or thing.  Either you did post the question on an lgbt site or you didn't.  Provide a link that's consistent and that would settle the matter.

Just saying "I could give you proof that I'm telling the truth, but you won't believe me so I won't" just makes you sound like a liar. 
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Art Vandelay on May 18, 2016, 09:19:23 pm
I believe this sums it up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxrWuE5qC5c
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: The_Queen on May 18, 2016, 09:40:42 pm
I believe this sums it up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxrWuE5qC5c

Yeah, l agree 100% with JilianLovesTheBiebs,* if Paragon had proof, he would've shown it, instead of being a bitch.

*Never thought I'd say that once in my life, let alone 3 times this week. Girl's got smarts.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Skybison on May 18, 2016, 09:48:49 pm
I am greatly offended that you would compare UP to bitches.  I've owned two, a Foxhound and an Australian Cattle Dog, and known many more and all are far smarter and less dishonest then he's being.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on May 18, 2016, 10:25:40 pm
Alright, I admit it.  I posted the question to 4chan's /lgbt/ board.

Why?  Two reasons.  First, I wanted as much anonymity as possible.  Second, I thought it was more convenient, since I didn't have to create an account.  In retrospect, maybe I should've expected some plagiarism.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: SCarpelan on May 18, 2016, 10:33:27 pm
Funny that the only site that comes up when googling the quote you gave is Quora. And yes, Google does search 4chan threads.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on May 18, 2016, 10:36:11 pm
Funny that the only site that comes up when googling the quote you gave is Quora. And yes, Google does search 4chan threads.

The thread probably disappeared by the time people started looking.  That's how imageboards work.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: ironbite on May 18, 2016, 10:40:01 pm
THAT'S NOT HOW GOOGLE WORKS!
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: The_Queen on May 18, 2016, 10:46:43 pm
Alright, I admit it.  I posted the question to 4chan's /lgbt/ board.

Why?  Two reasons.  First, I wanted as much anonymity as possible.  Second, I thought it was more convenient, since I didn't have to create an account.  In retrospect, maybe I should've expected some plagiarism.

I searched for the post through both google and 4chan and found a grand total of nothing. Even limiting my searches to a week provides nothing. Searching only "4chan" and "dysphoria" and limiting the replies to a week are equally fruitless. Second, 4chan!? Of all the internet sites you could go to to get quality LGBTQ feedback--including this one--you go to 4chan? I can't even.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: SCarpelan on May 18, 2016, 10:50:58 pm
4chan stores 10 pages of threads. Currently the last stored thread in the lgbt forum is from Tuesday and the issue came up here yesterday (Wednesday). So no, it hasn't had time to disappear from there.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on May 18, 2016, 10:59:30 pm
Huh.  You sure it's not a glitch or something?
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: dpareja on May 18, 2016, 11:06:11 pm
Huh.  You sure it's not a glitch or something?

It could well be a glitch. Where exactly that glitch occurred is another matter entirely.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: The_Queen on May 18, 2016, 11:06:35 pm
Huh.  You sure it's not a glitch or something?

You know, I decided to entertain you by going back and checking. Turns out, it actually was there. My goof.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: SCarpelan on May 18, 2016, 11:18:56 pm
Hm? I still come up with nothing with both 4chan search engines and Google.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: The_Queen on May 18, 2016, 11:56:36 pm
Hm? I still come up with nothing with both 4chan search engines and Google.

You're usually on the ball, so I went back and checked it a third time. Turns out that last post I made was just me being a sarcastic bitch. Carry on.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Skybison on May 19, 2016, 12:00:59 am
You meant to say your previous post was just a typo.

Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: davedan on May 19, 2016, 12:05:02 am
I get really emotional when I type and sometimes things just get blurted out. Like my brother is an Astronaut and he told me the earth was totally flat. Oh sorry emotional I meant my cousin. No my cousin's flatmate. No my cousin's flatmate's uncle, no I mean I watched the moon landing, no I mean I saw 2001 a space odyssey but I was high.

I just wish there was some sort of filter to keep my emotions in check when I'm typing before I post. Damn it.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: The_Queen on May 19, 2016, 12:11:19 am
I get really emotional when I type and sometimes things just get blurted out. Like my brother is an Astronaut and he told me the earth was totally flat. Oh sorry emotional I meant my cousin. No my cousin's flatmate. No my cousin's flatmate's uncle, no I mean I watched the moon landing, no I mean I saw 2001 a space odyssey but I was high.

I just wish there was some sort of filter to keep my emotions in check when I'm typing before I post. Damn it.

Sadly, Paragon is the only person who needs a conservatorship placed upon his ability to post on a message board.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: davedan on May 19, 2016, 12:21:01 am
But why would he lie? It doesn't make sense. I look forward to reading UP's Chewbacca defence.

I think many of us here are wondering why Paragon lies so much. I'm torn between thinking that UP gets get perverse pleasure from telling lies in the belief that he is getting one over everyone here or just such a basic lack of respect that he does it because he don't give a fuck. But if he didn't give a fuck why would he argue so hard that he's harder than steel.

As such I reckon it's because he gets his jollies on it. Frankly I reckon UP's screen is currently blocked by the mountain of used tissues in front of it. That's what he means by technical difficulties.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Skybison on May 19, 2016, 12:28:29 am
Well if his cousin is also his brother that might shed some light on his breeding.

And if anyone takes offense that I made a joke implying UP is a product of incest, I assure you it was just a typo.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Svata on May 19, 2016, 12:29:45 am
Btw, if you need somewhere to ask stuff in the future, GiantITP has a really helpful community. Just FYI.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: davedan on May 19, 2016, 12:37:46 am
Really I thought it was just good for D&D related cartoons?
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Svata on May 19, 2016, 12:42:51 am
The forums there are just full of awesome people. There is a series of threads for questions about LGBT+ issues. Can't remember which subforum its in.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: davedan on May 19, 2016, 01:38:42 am
That's fantastic, probably a consequence of such an excellent, if far too infrequently updated webcomic.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: rookie on May 19, 2016, 10:49:05 am
The forums there are just full of awesome people. There is a series of threads for questions about LGBT+ issues. Can't remember which subforum its in.

Confidential Confessions. Stickied right up there at the top. And what's great is you can go there and all honesty questions and get honest answers. Definitions that this board uses.

I say that because my absolute hands down favorite UP defense has always been "Oh, I see. You're using the common definition of _____. I'm using the obscure/made up definition." He did the same with the term personal experience a while back. I forget the dpecifics, but it had to do with either rape or harassment.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Svata on May 19, 2016, 10:58:35 am
Not the one here, the one on the GiantITP forums.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: mellenORL on May 19, 2016, 11:30:54 am
How UP regards his debate style:

(http://i.imgur.com/bIiAT84.gif)


How we see him:

(http://i.imgur.com/Kn34TxS.gif)

Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Canadian Mojo on May 19, 2016, 01:28:21 pm
How UP regards his debate style:
(http://i.imgur.com/bIiAT84.gif)

I don't think so, to my knowledge his mom has never come charging in to rescue his sorry ass.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Ironchew on May 19, 2016, 03:20:41 pm
I say that because my absolute hands down favorite UP defense has always been "Oh, I see. You're using the common definition of _____. I'm using the obscure/made up definition." He did the same with the term personal experience a while back. I forget the dpecifics, but it had to do with either rape or harassment.

His definition of "Best of Social Justice" seems to be "Social Justice that still excludes the sideshow freaks I don't like."
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: davedan on May 19, 2016, 04:42:30 pm
Social justice about things that don't cause me personal discomfort.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: ironbite on May 19, 2016, 07:12:52 pm
Didn't I once point out that UP actually thinks he's got some credibility around here and how that view is basically so wrong it's laughable?

Ironbite-cause we came back to that point again.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on June 06, 2016, 08:49:53 am
Regarding the conservative version of "political correctness". (https://overland.org.au/2016/06/political-correctness-gone-right-wing/)
Quote
McIntyre, a football journalist employed by SBS, lost his job after he sent out some tweets describing the atomic bombs dropped on Japan as ‘the largest single-day terrorist attacks in history’ and decrying ‘widespread rape and theft’ by Anzac soldiers.
No-one suggested his thoughts on military history bore any relationship to his ability to report on soccer matches. He was sacked purely and simply because he voiced the wrong opinion about Anzac Day.

How, then, do we describe the status of Anzac in Australia other than as political correctness? Isn’t this – a huge bureaucratic infrastructure designed to enforce a certain point of view – precisely what conservatives say they decry? Where, then, is the outrage when, every year, the ‘lifestyle cops’ and ‘word police’ find some luckless individual who offends against the PC version of Anzac and do whatever they can to punish him or her?

Nor is this an isolated example. The incessant Murdoch thinkpieces lambasting the censorious campus left masks the extent to which social conservatism has embraced a turbocharged version of the identity politics it ostensibly decries. Right-wing political correctness has emerged alongside an embrace of victimology, an obsession with quotas and representation (think of those articles totting up the precise number of conservatives appearing on each ABC show), and a tribal commitment to doctrine rather than evidence (the words ‘climate change’ come to mind). The offence-mongering over Ward’s Facebook is entirely typical: the people mocking university trigger warnings are themselves perpetually triggered, existing in a permanent lather of indignation over the scandals they whip up and reflexively demanding censorship of the ideas and the people with whom they disagree.

Yes, you can find that stuff on the left as well. But the difference is, of course, the right’s far more able to deploy real power to enforce its own brand of political correctness. Consider national security, another key shibboleth. When Zaky Mallah appeared on Q&A, the hysterical demands to implement tighter controls on that show were made in an environment in which anti-terror laws have dramatically reduced basic freedoms. As Jacqueline Maley notes in the Age, the Abbott government implemented legislation that left journalists facing ten years jail for reporting on ‘special intelligence operations’ carried out by ASIO. That came on top of all the other curtailments of liberty made in the name of fighting terror: the powers to ban books, declare organisations illegal, hold people without charges and all sorts of other innovations that strike at the basic values of liberal democracy.

That’s the context for the Australian’s bizarre contortions over Roz Ward. ‘Ms Ward is hardly a victim of those who would strangle free speech,’ declared the editorialist, the day her suspension was announced. ‘La Trobe University should hold her and others to account.’

Behold the authentic voice of right-wing political correctness, increasingly the common sense of Australian conservatives. Free speech belongs only to those we like – and everyone else should be crushed like bugs.

This! Because the wagging fingers of "tumblarinas" don't worry me as much as the pricks who actually run my country.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: dpareja on August 31, 2016, 11:02:37 pm
Should I start another Best of Social Justice thread or necro this one?

https://mic.com/articles/153149/actress-jen-richards-just-nailed-the-problem-with-casting-cisgender-actors-in-trans-roles?utm_source=policymicTBLR&utm_medium=main&utm_campaign=social#.KysNEzxSm

Quote
While Hollywood may come up short when it comes to roles for transgender women, there's no shortage of transgender brilliance on Twitter.

On Tuesday, after news broke that Matt Bomer took the role of a transgender woman in the upcoming film Anything, Jen Richards, transgender actress and creator of the Emmy-nominated online series Her Story, sounded off on Bomer's casting, the state of Hollywood for transgender talent and how these decisions can lead to violence against trans women.

(http://65.media.tumblr.com/70c4e6235408dad7ab6678f8c702815a/tumblr_ocsbfquIdO1r83d7lo1_1280.jpg)
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: SCarpelan on February 23, 2017, 05:25:55 am
Yep, a necro. I don't think this really deserves its own thread.

I had an interesting discussion last night with some friends that gave me a new perspective to the whole "special snowflake" thing with all the definitions and names for every nuance of sexual preference. A friend who identifies as a demisexual (as I found out) explained why he does so: it's actually the opposite of wanting to be special and different from others. For him, it's about finding people who share similar preferences and having thousands of people share the same identification and experience actually helps him be more comfortable with himself. It's not about trying to invent an identity to feel special or victimized despite the strawman (and probably some real "special snowflakes") making it seem so.

For me, the same emotional approach is just a part of my personality that I don't feel even deserves a separate term. On the other hand, I understand that because there is a certain kind of dating culture pushed on people it can feel comforting having that identity as a tool to deal with this pressure. As long as people don't confuse it with oppressed sexual identities I see no harm in this.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Random Dinosaur on March 11, 2017, 09:15:24 am
The forums there are just full of awesome people. There is a series of threads for questions about LGBT+ issues. Can't remember which subforum its in.

Friendly Banter.
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: Kanzenkankaku on June 03, 2017, 05:05:29 am
Should I start another Best of Social Justice thread or necro this one?

https://mic.com/articles/153149/actress-jen-richards-just-nailed-the-problem-with-casting-cisgender-actors-in-trans-roles?utm_source=policymicTBLR&utm_medium=main&utm_campaign=social#.KysNEzxSm

Quote
While Hollywood may come up short when it comes to roles for transgender women, there's no shortage of transgender brilliance on Twitter.

On Tuesday, after news broke that Matt Bomer took the role of a transgender woman in the upcoming film Anything, Jen Richards, transgender actress and creator of the Emmy-nominated online series Her Story, sounded off on Bomer's casting, the state of Hollywood for transgender talent and how these decisions can lead to violence against trans women.

(http://65.media.tumblr.com/70c4e6235408dad7ab6678f8c702815a/tumblr_ocsbfquIdO1r83d7lo1_1280.jpg)

While I agree it would be nice for Hollywood to give more slots to trans women, I'm not sure how the current state of affairs necessarily encourages violence against us. As long as the cis man (or cis woman in some instances) is portraying a well-rounded, non-stereotypical character, there shouldn't be any negative media influence.

(Also, as a brief aside, readin through this whole thread made me realize why you guys didn't like Ultimate Paragon, that guy can't debate his way out of a paper sack)
Title: Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
Post by: dpareja on August 09, 2017, 02:38:19 pm
I'm going to shoot down cultural appropriation nonsense with one paragraph from a cookbook I have:

Quote
My pal Reza Mofakham helps manage a hardware store and caught the barbecue bug a couple of years ago. He's learned to master the Cadillac of charcoal cookers, the Big Green Egg, which is kind of a cross between a covered grill and a tandoor oven--which means you can plank salmon and cook pizza in it. This dish scored well in the open category at the Canadian National Barbecue Championships in 2005, and I think it'll score well with you, too. It's a tasty way to deal with leftover planked salmon. If you don't feel like making your own pizza dough, you can buy it frozen at most supermarkets.

And if that made you hungry, here's a link to the cookbook:

https://www.amazon.ca/Barbecue-Secrets-Deluxe-Recipes-Champion/dp/1552859495