Is Israel stabbing America in the back?

[CaseAgainstFaith]

When, in the wake of last week's killing of an Iranian scientist, Iranian officials blamed Israel and America, I assumed they were just making up the part about America. Denials issued by Secretary of State Clinton and Defense Secretary Panetta were emphatic and convincing.

But now Iran has gone beyond the usual vague references to a Zionist-American plot. Its foreign ministry has sent a letter to the U.S. claiming to have evidence of CIA involvement. Is it possible that the Iranians actually have such evidence?

It's possible they have what they think is such evidence. That's the weird prospect raised by a much-discussed story published on Foreign Policy magazine's website Friday by Mark Perry.

Perry's story is about Jundallah, a shadowy group that is based in Pakistan but operates within Iran. Designated a terrorist group by the United States, Jundallah is thought to have killed hundreds of Iranians as part of what it says is a fight for the rights of Sunnis in Iran.

Perry reports two things: (1) Agents for the Mossad, Israel's intelligence service, have recruited Jundallah members to help with covert operations against Iran; (2) In approaching those Jundallah members, Mossad agents claimed to be CIA agents. In other words, there may be Jundallah operatives conducting covert operations against Iran who mistakenly think they're working for the CIA. And if the Iranian government wound up interrogating one of them, it could thus obtain "evidence" of US involvement.

Though Jundallah has conducted assassinations within Iran, they haven't had the level of sophistication of the recent assassinations of Iranian scientists. Experts I contacted deemed it unlikely that these recent killings would have been outsourced to Jundallah by Israel. But, as one of these experts pointed out, that doesn't mean Mossad recruits from Jundallah, conveniently positioned inside Iran, couldn't have provided logistical support. Moreover, as Jim Lobe observes, there are other anti-regime Iranian groups that Israel could be harnessing, also under the pretense of American sponsorship.

Yesterday the Israeli newspaper Haaretz quoted an anonymous Israeli official denying Perry's story. But the story has the feel of a pretty richly sourced piece of reporting.

What it doesn't address is why Mossad agents would have done this--impersonate CIA agents, complete with fake passports. Maybe it's easier to recruit Muslim operatives if you're American than if you're Israeli?

In any event, this "false flag" operation could help explain why for years Iran has accused America of supporting Jundallah even as America has denied the charge. (Perry's evidence comes from 2007-08, but since the Bush administration, having discovered what Israel was up to, apparently didn't file a protest, the practice presumably continued.) And, whether or not creating this Iranian confusion was an Israeli goal, Israel probably doesn't mind the attendant heightening of tensions between America and a country it considers a mortal enemy.

source -http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/01/is-america-helping-israel-kill-iranian-scientists-the-view-from-iran/251434/?google_editors_picks=true

If it turns out to be true that Israel is running these "false flag" operations, who needs enemies when you have friends like Israel.

[armandtanzarian]

Why so surprised? Israel pretty much had the US backing for the last 60 years or so. Any conflict and the chances are the US is going to support Israel. The right-wing government is basically now staffed with warmongers desperate to bomb the living shit out of their neighbours, knowing that the US will supply them the weapons and the cover via its veto power in the security council. The country is ruled by a bunch of spoilt brats.

[Scotsgit]

I'm not too surprised either - it's only a couple of years since MOSSAD agents used fake British passports to travel to Dubai to carry out an assassination.  When it came to light what they'd done, rather than apologise, they went on the offensive against the British gov't and, as Armand says, acted like spoiled brats.

[lighthorseman]

Meh, since the US now performs extra judicial executions (assasinations, if you prefer) on it's own citizens, I really don't feel they hold enough of the moral high ground to act all huffy about this, even if true.

[D Laurier]

I support a free Palestine... Complete with it's 1915, Hussein/MacMahon accord, pre-partition, pre-colonization borders.
Recognize, Sign treatys and establish trade with, Provide with their share of the plunder taken from Germany in 1919. (ie: coal, iron, couple dozen whole factorys, small arms, couple sqadrons of fokker D.VIIs and Siemens-Schuckert D.IVs, and a small fleet of german ships) Pay their League of Nations dues for them, and give them a century to get caught up.
Also, Palestine hosts the 1940 olympics in Jaffa.

Let them experience the 20th century as a free people, and hope they forget the other 20th century.
As for the occupation forces?? make them leave.

[DasFuchs]

Israel would never do a thing like that! *coughs* nukes
Why Israel is a close ally that would never deceive us! *coughs* nukes

[MadCatTLX]

Meh, since the US now performs extra judicial executions (assasinations, if you prefer) on it's own citizens, I really don't feel they hold enough of the moral high ground to act all huffy about this, even if true.

WHAT! When did this happen? Can you please clarify what assassinations your talking about? Even without that the US has no moral high ground because of "anti-terrorism" laws that allow the government to do damn near anything to you as long as they call you a terrorist.

[Osama bin Bambi]

Meh, since the US now performs extra judicial executions (assasinations, if you prefer) on it's own citizens, I really don't feel they hold enough of the moral high ground to act all huffy about this, even if true.

WHAT! When did this happen? Can you please clarify what assassinations your talking about? Even without that the US has no moral high ground because of "anti-terrorism" laws that allow the government to do damn near anything to you as long as they call you a terrorist.

Anwar al-Awlaki (sp?) was an extremist Muslim cleric who was US-educated and, IIRC, also an American citizen. He was killed in a bomb strike a few months after Osama bin Laden was killed.

[ironbite]

Meh, since the US now performs extra judicial executions (assasinations, if you prefer) on it's own citizens, I really don't feel they hold enough of the moral high ground to act all huffy about this, even if true.

WHAT! When did this happen? Can you please clarify what assassinations your talking about? Even without that the US has no moral high ground because of "anti-terrorism" laws that allow the government to do damn near anything to you as long as they call you a terrorist.

Anwar al-Awlaki (sp?) was an extremist Muslim cleric who was US-educated and, IIRC, also an American citizen. He was killed in a bomb strike a few months after Osama bin Laden was killed.

And people are still up in arms about that because he's an American citizen.  But I don't shed a tear over someone who might've been born here but has simply turn his back on everything he was raised on.  I can't.

Ironbite-and I won't.

[lighthorseman]

Meh, since the US now performs extra judicial executions (assasinations, if you prefer) on it's own citizens, I really don't feel they hold enough of the moral high ground to act all huffy about this, even if true.

WHAT! When did this happen? Can you please clarify what assassinations your talking about? Even without that the US has no moral high ground because of "anti-terrorism" laws that allow the government to do damn near anything to you as long as they call you a terrorist.

What Wykked Wytch said, need a link?

[lighthorseman]

Meh, since the US now performs extra judicial executions (assasinations, if you prefer) on it's own citizens, I really don't feel they hold enough of the moral high ground to act all huffy about this, even if true.

WHAT! When did this happen? Can you please clarify what assassinations your talking about? Even without that the US has no moral high ground because of "anti-terrorism" laws that allow the government to do damn near anything to you as long as they call you a terrorist.

Anwar al-Awlaki (sp?) was an extremist Muslim cleric who was US-educated and, IIRC, also an American citizen. He was killed in a bomb strike a few months after Osama bin Laden was killed.

And people are still up in arms about that because he's an American citizen.  But I don't shed a tear over someone who might've been born here but has simply turn his back on everything he was raised on.  I can't.

Ironbite-and I won't.

...Due process doesn't apply to people we don't like, of course.

[booley]

Meh, since the US now performs extra judicial executions (assasinations, if you prefer) on it's own citizens, I really don't feel they hold enough of the moral high ground to act all huffy about this, even if true.

WHAT! When did this happen? Can you please clarify what assassinations your talking about? Even without that the US has no moral high ground because of "anti-terrorism" laws that allow the government to do damn near anything to you as long as they call you a terrorist.

Anwar al-Awlaki (sp?) was an extremist Muslim cleric who was US-educated and, IIRC, also an American citizen. He was killed in a bomb strike a few months after Osama bin Laden was killed.

And people are still up in arms about that because he's an American citizen.  But I don't shed a tear over someone who might've been born here but has simply turn his back on everything he was raised on.  I can't.

Ironbite-and I won't.

...Due process doesn't apply to people we don't like, of course.

Freedom is counted by how a country treats those it despises.

[Captain Jack Harkness]

Most of this kind of shit is the fault of the American public and their goddamn blind support for Israel.  I swear, that idea that Israel can do no wrong pisses me the fuck off.

[ironbite]

Meh, since the US now performs extra judicial executions (assasinations, if you prefer) on it's own citizens, I really don't feel they hold enough of the moral high ground to act all huffy about this, even if true.

WHAT! When did this happen? Can you please clarify what assassinations your talking about? Even without that the US has no moral high ground because of "anti-terrorism" laws that allow the government to do damn near anything to you as long as they call you a terrorist.

Anwar al-Awlaki (sp?) was an extremist Muslim cleric who was US-educated and, IIRC, also an American citizen. He was killed in a bomb strike a few months after Osama bin Laden was killed.

And people are still up in arms about that because he's an American citizen.  But I don't shed a tear over someone who might've been born here but has simply turn his back on everything he was raised on.  I can't.

Ironbite-and I won't.

...Due process doesn't apply to people we don't like, of course.

Never said that.  He was put on the capture or kill list for a reason.  Was it harder to bring him in alive to face his crimes?  Probably.  Do I give shit one about his death?  Fuck no.  He's a terrorist.  Not one of those Afgan farmers who just happened to be caught up in a raid by US Special forces, not a Frenchman who was just vacationing in Iraq when the bombs fell, but an honest to god damn terrorist.  Was it wrong to just kill him?  Yeah.  Was it the only way?  No.  But the other way would've cost some lives.

Ironbite-frankly one life for several dozen is ok in my book.

[Lt. Fred]

Fuck no.  He's a terrorist.

Accusation is not proof. The severity of the crime does not exempt the US government from proving it.