Author Topic: Christianity and the treatment of homosexuals  (Read 12680 times)

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Offline Eniliad

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Re: Christianity and the treatment of homosexuals
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2012, 03:35:06 pm »


And in the end, all I can do is ask... why?

What did we do to you?


We were born?

Also, *hugs*

Beat me to it but I'll add in the hugs anyway. *hugs*

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Had a conversation with my mom yesterday. She was trying to tell me what the Bible says about homosexuality. I told her it doesn't mean what you think it means, and she came back with, "Well, how many times have you read the Bible?" As if reading it more makes you understand it better.

This is another one of their fucked up double edged swords that make Christians like me look bad. If they ask you that and you tell them only once or twice they tell you that you really need to study it.

If you tell them you've read it multiple times and can even explain concepts like sheol to them then God is going to punish you even more harshly because you should have known better.

First of all, I know at least two people hugged me after I made that last post. Thank you very much for that, both of you. :) But I quoted this post because I wanted to answer it, and provide some kudos.

I know there's a lot of fundie bashing, but I'm aware that sometimes, on the main page and on the forums occasionally, some of that rage carries over and people (yes, me included) take it out on Christianity or religion in general. And despite that, here you are, a Christian, showing the common sense and kindness needed to realize "hey, these other guys are totally nuts!" and to my knowledge, haven't got pissed at us for occasionally catching regular, decent Christians in our verbal crossfire. For that, you have a major kudos award. We need people like you from time to time to remember that not all of you guys are bad - it's just that there are some real nutjobs out there using your faith as a means to spread hate. :)

And yeah - I don't think I've had a conversation quite like that, but it always baffled me, even when I was a Christian myself, why someone would demand that an Atheist know their holy book (and only theirs) as well as them or better, and use solely that to defend their viewpoints... when the person they're arguing with doesn't believe in the book anyway, and therefore doesn't consider the rules in the book true to begin with.

Pardon the comparison, but you could draw a parallel to that, and demanding that a sci-fi geek prove that your understanding of the Men of Numenor from Lord of the Rings is incorrect using only the Silmarillion. If he doesn't like it, he's not going to read it, and you should understand what you profess to love so much!
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Offline rosenewock21

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Re: Christianity and the treatment of homosexuals
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2012, 04:07:16 pm »
Yes, well, liberal, bi/pansexual, pro-choice, feminist, God wants us to love one another, who has studied mythology and can point you to the myths/legends Christianity plagiarized, type of Christian here. Sometimes my own ilk look at me like a two headed kraken has just oozed onto the beach and is about to attack them.

The religion isn't perfect, not by far. I'm largely a Christian because I believe there is a God somewhere out there in all this mess and because Jesus gives me the warm fuzzies. I've left the religion and came back because it makes the most sense to me. That doesn't mean a Muslim is wrong, or a Hindu, or a Wiccan. That just means they've found a different path to God than I did and as long as it makes them happy and doesn't induce dickish behavior I'm all for it. I'd rather (forgive the vernacular) deal with an honest pagan (or atheist as the case were) than a dishonest Christian. I will quote Ghandi at people "I like your Christ but I do not like your Christians; for they are so unlike your Christ".

When a fellow Christian asks me if I've read the book I tell them yes, over a dozen times. Then I ask them if they have. You are not supposed to take a lot of it literally. There are mentions of zombies, ghosts, dragons, unicorns, half-demons, giants, manticores, etc in that book. You mean to tell me I'm supposed to believe those thing are all real? Chances are good if they're asking that question they're actually a Paulian anyway.

Jesus teaches us in Matthew 22: 37-40:

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   37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Did any of you fundies lurking here catch this? Jesus said to love God and love each other. Those are the most important things for a Christian to do. Even God has a "don't be a dick" rule.

Early in that same chapter he also spoke out on separation of church and state. Matthew 22:21

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...Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Catch that? Things that are legal issues should stay legal issues. Things that are strictly religious issues should stay strictly religious issues. There should be a clear line between them.

Legal marriage as recognized by the government is a legal issue. It doesn't mean your pastor is going to be arrested for refusing to perform a wedding for a local lesbian couple. No one is going to make your church accept them. All that means is the 1,400+ rights a marriage grants across the country now legally belong to that couple.
Matthew 22:39 "And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." God's own "don't be a dick" rule.

Lithp and Vene really need to have some kind of confusing sexual encounter where Vene spends the entire session lovingly insulting Lithp's technique, then cums on his face, ruffles his hair, says, "You're all right, kid!", and then punches him in the nuts.

Offline Auri-El

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Re: Christianity and the treatment of homosexuals
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2012, 04:20:27 pm »
Exactly! I haven't read the Bible all the way through, as I think most of it is pretty boring and I have a short attention span. But I have read the important parts, and what's more I actually study it, look up historical context and translation ambiguities. But that's not good enough, she's read it cover to cover 20-ish times over the years, so she obviously knows it better than me.

Offline Sylvana

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Re: Christianity and the treatment of homosexuals
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2012, 02:36:05 am »
Exactly! I haven't read the Bible all the way through, as I think most of it is pretty boring and I have a short attention span. But I have read the important parts, and what's more I actually study it, look up historical context and translation ambiguities. But that's not good enough, she's read it cover to cover 20-ish times over the years, so she obviously knows it better than me.

I know I have not read the bible nearly as much as most Christians, and yet oddly, I know their bible far better than most of them. I cant cite book names and verse numbers like they seem to, but I know the stories and what it says and give me the internet and I will find the chapter and verse numbers to prove it.

I must say, sometimes I am a little too harsh on general Christians myself. I know that most are not bad people, and that only the fundies are the really bad ones, but I have found far too often when someone who would be a nominal christian in all senses treats me like I am less than the scum on his shoes just because of who and what I am. Most Christians are very nice people, but far too often they fall into the trap of letting their own bigotries show, and then backing them up conveniently with religion. It is not systemic like fundies, its more and opportunistic thing, where they just happen to be faced with a situation and let their religion shape their opinions for them.

Odd note for rosenwock21: You would technically be a deist. There are plenty on this site, many believe that a god exists or have found their own path to spirituality.

Offline rosenewock21

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Re: Christianity and the treatment of homosexuals
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2012, 06:05:26 am »
Odd note for rosenwock21: You would technically be a deist. There are plenty on this site, many believe that a god exists or have found their own path to spirituality.

True. But then again, anyone who follows a god or gods is a baseline deist.  ;)  I suppose you could call me either. I have the god is out there, all paths lead to god mindset of the typical deist. But I also try to follow the teachings of Christ, go to church semi-regularly, and when I do pray (normally for patience and understanding) I tend to do it "in Jesus' name".

Also, I can't for the love of me remember who said this, but I love this quote.

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Politics and the pulpit are terms that have little agreement. No sound ought to be heard in the church but the healing voice of Christian charity.
Matthew 22:39 "And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." God's own "don't be a dick" rule.

Lithp and Vene really need to have some kind of confusing sexual encounter where Vene spends the entire session lovingly insulting Lithp's technique, then cums on his face, ruffles his hair, says, "You're all right, kid!", and then punches him in the nuts.

Offline Barbarella

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Re: Christianity and the treatment of homosexuals
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2012, 11:26:46 am »
Not by fundies, but I was picked on by a bunch of bogans for being gay in my high school. I can't've been older than 12 when it started, so I never really got a chance to question myself properly.

It lasted for 5 years. For 5 years, I was taunted, sexually harassed (by the straight males, no less), had rumours spread about me, etc.

It wasn't 'till October 2010 that I realised something was up. Thought I was bisexual for a while, but realised I was gay a bit later. I've still got reservations about coming out 'cause of the bullshit I suffered through.


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