Author Topic: Good Things People Say on the Internet  (Read 111990 times)

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Offline Dakota Bob

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Re: Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #165 on: October 06, 2015, 06:45:03 pm »
They guy who drew that "antisemitic" cartoon was fired for singling out a specific person and not an idea, and was an actual anti-semite

Quote
Siné, of course, was not ridiculing a Jewish idea. Instead, he was deploying an anti-Jewish canard—that Jews maintain a protective cabal designed to advance each other’s interests—against an individual, living person. His comment was not a theological critique, but a libelous accusation. Siné was asked by the magazine’s editor to apologize to Sarkozy’s son, but he refused and was fired. (Siné, by the way, has described himself as a Jew-hater. "Yes, I am anti-Semitic and I am not scared to admit it," he once said. "I want all Jews to live in fear, unless they are pro-Palestinian. Let them die.")

I think we can all agree that's different from their general attacks on the religion of Islam.

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Re: Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #166 on: October 07, 2015, 07:57:46 am »
Sigma mostly said what what was on my mind (fist bump).

Quote from: guizonde

re: bigotry and theft. it's not the same parallel and you know it. the paper makes its money off of mocking everything. from monsanto to vegans, from capitalists from communists. they're indiscriminate because their sole point of existence is to piss people off. however, there's a difference between slander (moral prejudice) and theft or usury (physical prejudice). both are harmful in their own way but don't equate one with the other. honestly, i'd rather be tarred and feathered than losing my cash. and if we want to be pedantic, they're more of an "eat the rich mentality" so will actually target the rich over the poor (while making jokes about welfare babies in freezers, but hey, misanthropists.)

Note to self: don't use metaphors with guizonde.

But eh, I can admit that my metaphor wasn't the clearest one. Instead, allow me to use a different one.

Imagine that there are two people in front of you right now: a middle-aged person, rather fit, works out a lot and eats well, isn't sick or injured in any way; and an old person, body about to fail on them, sick, organs not working right, has to walk with a stick.

You walk up to both of these people... and you punch them both in the gut with all of your power. The same amount of strength.

The fit, middle-aged person is in pain, obviously, but they're not actually injured per se. You might even hurt your own fist because they're so muscular, hot damn, you could grate cheese on their abs. The old person, on the other hand, isn't so fortunate. Disrupted organ functions. Internal bleeding. Possibly broken bones. Maybe even shock. All that good shit.

Now... have you punched them equally?

And THAT is why "I hate everyone equally" is bollocks.

And re: "well they're not intending to be racist so they're not actually being racist": it doesn't work that way? Intent actually means far less than people think it means. If I throw a knife at someone not to hurt them specifically but because I think it's funny to throw knives at people, then I'm still throwing a physical knife at someone and it's still going to cause damage because it's a knife and it doesn't care why it was thrown. Geez.

And sure, whatever, calling the Torah stupid isn't anti-Semitic if you're commenting on the irrationality of religious text. But there's a difference between saying "the Torah is stupid because its contents are irrational" and "the Torah is a piece of shit and everyone who believes in it is crazy". And if you're just singling out a single religious group's holy text in lieu of expressing a distaste about the inanity of religious texts in general, then that's, you know, singling out a single religious group. The difference between "the Torah is a religious text, all religious texts are stupid, therefore the Torah is stupid" and "the Torah specifically is stupid", if that makes sense.

...wow, looks I had more to say than I thought. Not all of it might be worded well because I'm running a fever, but hey, had to get back on the saddle.

Offline guizonde

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Re: Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #167 on: October 07, 2015, 08:40:35 am »
you're right about what you're saying, of course. anybody with an ounce of common sense can see that. however, i still think you're slippery-sloping the argument by going from words to deeds (reminds me of my philosophy baccalaureate, which it was the subject). in reverse it becomes. a says tons of nice things about minorities and brags about it. b does very helpful things to a minority and doesn't brag about it. who's nicer? this argument can go on and on.

for the "i hate people" actually, in france it does work that way. so long as you a: rag on litterally everything in an equal and proportionnate manner, and b: you don't fall into hate-speech. it's one of those loopholes that has stopped france from mostly falling into the social justice zealot territory (thanks spuki). don't get me started on the large number of misogynists, machos and misandrists however. if you go from words to deeds, though, you'll get the full force of the judiciary system thrown at you, and you'll be blacklisted forever. iirc, the difference between murder (15-30 years with up to 20 years without parole) and hate-crime becomes the maximum sentence, including life in prison with no chance of parole. that's why satirists and bigots dance a fine line and make sure to always disculp themselves when it goes from words to deeds.

anti-semitism in france is pretty strict (thank the occupation and the collaborators for that). but you can't get in trouble for saying "the torah is stupid and it's a stupid faith in the first place", because you're targetting a faith and not the people. although, saying that would count as anti-hebraism. it's just not enforced in france, because france is so anti-religious in the first place, even if they make efforts to let people practice their faith freely (like hallal meals at school). doesn't stop the bigots griping. then charlie hebdo will do a cartoon exaggerating what the bigots are saying. then people will laugh or gripe. doesn't change the game.
basically, you can be anything, but not free from ridicule. whoever you may be.

let's leave it at "they're assholes, and they have the right to do so".
@ guizonde: I think I like the way you think.
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Re: Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #168 on: October 07, 2015, 12:25:51 pm »
Fine. Charlie Hebdo is full of assholes that have the legal right to be assholes. Let's just celebrate that we managed to reach some kind of common point and drop this, because my mystical Nostradamus powers tell me  that this will be a frustrating drag if we don't.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #169 on: October 12, 2015, 11:29:15 pm »
https://twitter.com/snowden/status/653724738280386561

Quote from: Edward Snowden
An individual trying to limit speech at universities is interested in neither university nor justice.

Offline Dakota Bob

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Re: Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #170 on: October 13, 2015, 06:38:46 am »
Based Snowden. Leaks government secrets and doesn't afraid of anything.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #171 on: October 31, 2015, 09:37:31 am »
Here's a writer for Steven Universe weighing in on the fanart controversy:

http://plebcomics.tumblr.com/post/131942143013/kaisermon-an-important-message-from-one-of-the

Offline guizonde

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Re: Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #172 on: October 31, 2015, 11:18:44 am »
why do i get the feeling they're about to be called out for enabling prejudice? word of god used to be sacred, nowadays, headcanons are more important...

still, "live and let live" is a message i can get behind.
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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #174 on: November 03, 2015, 04:50:53 pm »
why do i get the feeling they're about to be called out for enabling prejudice? word of god used to be sacred, nowadays, headcanons are more important...

If by nowadays you mean "since 1967", sure.
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Offline guizonde

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Re: Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #175 on: November 03, 2015, 07:28:12 pm »
thanks sigma, i legitimately learned something today. i always knew of roland barthes, but never got to study him specifically in my cursus. didn't know he was the author behind this essay. i'll have to get my hands on it, seems interesting.
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Re: Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #176 on: November 05, 2015, 02:57:54 pm »
Quote from: tumblr user jean-luc-gohard
My favorite is that story every white person has that’s like, “My friend didn’t get into her dream school because they took a black guy with a lower GPA instead.” As though they were in the admissions office and heard the admissions officers going, “Well, there’s one spot left, and we have to choose between this brilliant white girl or this black idiot. I guess we’ll choose the black guy, because Affirmative Action means we have to!” They don’t know their friend’s exact GPA or that of the person who “got in instead,” or if they applied to the same program, or if one had a lower GPA but better test scores or extracurriculars or volunteer hours or personal statement, or if the other was a legacy. All they know is, “My white friend got rejected, but there are black people at the school,” and they see their white friends as being inherently smarter and more worthy of an education, so they assume automatically that the black people there are unqualified and were unfairly accepted.

Offline mythbuster43

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Re: Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #177 on: November 06, 2015, 01:30:41 pm »
Quote from: tumblr user jean-luc-gohard
My favorite is that story every white person has that’s like, “My friend didn’t get into her dream school because they took a black guy with a lower GPA instead.” As though they were in the admissions office and heard the admissions officers going, “Well, there’s one spot left, and we have to choose between this brilliant white girl or this black idiot. I guess we’ll choose the black guy, because Affirmative Action means we have to!” They don’t know their friend’s exact GPA or that of the person who “got in instead,” or if they applied to the same program, or if one had a lower GPA but better test scores or extracurriculars or volunteer hours or personal statement, or if the other was a legacy. All they know is, “My white friend got rejected, but there are black people at the school,” and they see their white friends as being inherently smarter and more worthy of an education, so they assume automatically that the black people there are unqualified and were unfairly accepted.

This person wins the internets.

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Re: Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #178 on: November 10, 2015, 02:27:00 pm »

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #179 on: November 11, 2015, 10:08:36 am »