Author Topic: Best of Social Justice- Redux  (Read 30457 times)

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Even Then

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Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
« Reply #45 on: May 17, 2016, 05:20:18 pm »
If somebody really is "faking it" and you as a casual observer give them the benefit of a doubt there is little harm done. If they aren't and you mock them thinking they are faking you participate in causing emotional damage to them. Cost-benefit analysis of each action tips the weights clearly to one direction specially when you remember the suicide statistics among transpeople.

What if they say "truscum" unironically?

Then they would still have a gender identity that doesn't match the gender that was assigned to them at birth. This isn't hard.

Offline davedan

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Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
« Reply #46 on: May 17, 2016, 06:37:52 pm »
If somebody really is "faking it" and you as a casual observer give them the benefit of a doubt there is little harm done. If they aren't and you mock them thinking they are faking you participate in causing emotional damage to them. Cost-benefit analysis of each action tips the weights clearly to one direction specially when you remember the suicide statistics among transpeople.

What if they say "truscum" unironically?

What if a pre-teen boy popped his first boner and splooged in his parents' spaghetti sauce? Seriously, why is it that you're always the one who seems to care so much about some miniscule portion of the internet? Do you really think we're just going to forget your attempt to deny genderqueer people respect for not living up to your bullshit social standards of gender?

Spaghetti sauce is so passe - Philip Roth already detailed in 'Portnoy's Complaint' fucking the family's dinner and putting it back in the fridge only for it to be eaten later. Launched a successful writing career. Whereas ripping it off and fucking a pie (that no one even ate if I remember correctly) launched a series of films that was below the standard set by Police Academy.

Also what about "Free Speech"TM? Are you going to attack that person and shut down what they say just because you don't like it? OUTRAGE! What if they said 'truscum unironically while pleasuring themselves to pictures of 8 year olds in their togs?"

Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
« Reply #47 on: May 17, 2016, 07:13:54 pm »
If somebody really is "faking it" and you as a casual observer give them the benefit of a doubt there is little harm done. If they aren't and you mock them thinking they are faking you participate in causing emotional damage to them. Cost-benefit analysis of each action tips the weights clearly to one direction specially when you remember the suicide statistics among transpeople.

What if they say "truscum" unironically?

...then you can dislike their politics without denying their gender identity? This is not hard.
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
« Reply #48 on: May 17, 2016, 10:41:56 pm »
Maybe I'm wrong about this.  But hear me out.  See, when I see somebody claim to be trans and yet admit to not experiencing dysphoria, my first thought is that they're some fauxgressive snowflake who decided to use the label like it's a fashion accessory.  To me, it's like all those idiots who diagnose themselves with autism/ADHD/schizophrenia/whatever.  Or to go back a little bit, like the political lesbians of yesteryear.

Why do I think this?  My reasoning is simple when you get right down to it.  The definition of "gender dysphoria" is feeling uncomfortable with your assigned gender.  Logically, this means that people who don't have gender dysphoria have no problem with their assigned gender.  Riddle me this: if you feel comfortable with your assigned gender, how can you be trans?  The way I see it, it's like claiming to be diabetic when you have normal blood sugar.

And that's not even getting into how repulsive tucute/transtrender people can be:



Then again, I could be talking out of my ass, so I'm willing to listen to evidence claiming otherwise.

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Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
« Reply #49 on: May 17, 2016, 11:15:18 pm »
......you....

Ironbite-*goes to get a stiff drink*

Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
« Reply #50 on: May 17, 2016, 11:49:47 pm »
Maybe I'm wrong about this.  But hear me out.  See, when I see somebody claim to be trans and yet admit to not experiencing dysphoria, my first thought is that they're some fauxgressive snowflake who decided to use the label like it's a fashion accessory.  To me, it's like all those idiots who diagnose themselves with autism/ADHD/schizophrenia/whatever.  Or to go back a little bit, like the political lesbians of yesteryear.

Why do I think this?  My reasoning is simple when you get right down to it.  The definition of "gender dysphoria" is feeling uncomfortable with your assigned gender.  Logically, this means that people who don't have gender dysphoria have no problem with their assigned gender.  Riddle me this: if you feel comfortable with your assigned gender, how can you be trans?  The way I see it, it's like claiming to be diabetic when you have normal blood sugar.

[image snipped]

Then again, I could be talking out of my ass, so I'm willing to listen to evidence claiming otherwise.

I'm pretty sure I already addressed this. Like, a handful of posts above yours. The way people are using the word 'dysphoria' varies, so you're drawing the wrong conclusions from it by projecting your definition onto theirs.

Do you disagree or find this insufficient?

(As an aside: if cis people want to transition, socially or medically or otherwise, I'm all in favour of them doing that. Can't imagine why they would, but it's their right)
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Even Then

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Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
« Reply #51 on: May 17, 2016, 11:52:39 pm »
So where are you pulling "has no discomfort with their assigned gender" from? If """"transtrenders"""" were perfectly comfortable with their assigned gender, they wouldn't be saying that they're something else, now would they? If everyone calls you a woman and at some point you just get tired of correcting them or don't give enough of a shit to, do you magically become a woman?

Direct questions. Actually, come to think of it, the ones in my thread in Flame and Burn are also direct questions now. You know. The one you haven't responded to in two weeks.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
« Reply #52 on: May 17, 2016, 11:58:38 pm »
So where are you pulling "has no discomfort with their assigned gender" from? If """"transtrenders"""" were perfectly comfortable with their assigned gender, they wouldn't be saying that they're something else, now would they? If everyone calls you a woman and at some point you just get tired of correcting them or don't give enough of a shit to, do you magically become a woman?

Direct questions. Actually, come to think of it, the ones in my thread in Flame and Burn are also direct questions now. You know. The one you haven't responded to in two weeks.

I'm busy.  I'll get to them in good time.

But to answer your questions, I already established that these people admit to not experiencing dysphoria; ergo, they are comfortable with their assigned gender.  As for why they claim to be trans, I think it's usually because either a) they want to feel special or b) they want more Oppression PointsTM.

Offline rookie

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Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
« Reply #53 on: May 18, 2016, 12:03:43 am »
According to your research, what percentage of these people are actually out there?
The difference between 0 and 1 is infinite. The difference between 1 and a million is a matter of degree. - Zack Johnson

Quote from: davedan board=pg thread=6573 post=218058 time=1286247542
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
« Reply #54 on: May 18, 2016, 12:11:32 am »
According to your research, what percentage of these people are actually out there?

Why does that matter?  I don't care how small a group is, I'll call out bullshit when I see it.

Even Then

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Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
« Reply #55 on: May 18, 2016, 12:24:44 am »
Not too busy to tell trans people they're not trans enough for a cis man's standards, apparently.

Maybe they use the word "dysphoria" in a different way than you. There are several definitions for it, you know. It's entirely possible that the people you're deciding aren't trans are using it to mean "body dysphoria" (not having a need to physically transition), which is a connotation that exists. Or, like Sigma said, an entirely different category of dysphoria than what you're using. Have these people ever actually said "my gender is the gender that was assigned to me at birth"? No? Then let's apply Occam's Razor: which is more likely? A notable-enough amount of these """transtrenders""" lying in the exact same scheme for the exact same purpose, or them expressing their actual selves? (And before you start, I'm not saying there isn't at least one person that has lied about being noncis. But your reasoning for what makes a """transtrender""" is spotty beyond all hell.)

Actually, how do you define dysphoria?

Also, your diabetes analogy is flawed because a gender is not a physical state of wellness or lack thereof, and comparing being noncis to having a disease is pretty iffy.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2016, 12:27:24 am by Even Then »

Offline Skybison

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Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
« Reply #56 on: May 18, 2016, 12:26:04 am »
Who the hell is Captain Safetypin anyway?

I confess I don't know enough about trans issues or what some of these words mean, but if someone says they're trans I'm going to assume they're telling the truth.  Sure they're might be some equivalents of Tom McMaster out there but I assume it's not very many.

UP, when you admit that you might be talking out of you're ass, and people who are trans tell you that you are in fact talking out of your ass, it's time to stop talking.

Even Then

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Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
« Reply #57 on: May 18, 2016, 12:30:15 am »
Bottom line, "I don't have dysphoria" =/= "I am the gender that was given at birth" for reasons already elaborated upon.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
« Reply #58 on: May 18, 2016, 12:44:02 am »
Not too busy to tell trans people they're not trans enough for a cis man's standards, apparently.

Maybe they use the word "dysphoria" in a different way than you. There are several definitions for it, you know. It's entirely possible that the people you're deciding aren't trans are using it to mean "body dysphoria" (not having a need to physically transition), which is a connotation that exists. Or, like Sigma said, an entirely different category of dysphoria than what you're using. Have these people ever actually said "my gender is the gender that was assigned to me at birth"? No? Then let's apply Occam's Razor: which is more likely? A notable-enough amount of these """transtrenders""" lying in the exact same scheme for the exact same purpose, or them expressing their actual selves? (And before you start, I'm not saying there isn't at least one person that has lied about being noncis. But your reasoning for what makes a """transtrender""" is spotty beyond all hell.)

Actually, how do you define dysphoria?

Also, your diabetes analogy is flawed because a gender is not a physical state of wellness or lack thereof, and comparing being noncis to having a disease is pretty iffy.

Huh.  Good points.

Fine then.  I'll drop it.  At least for now

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Re: Best of Social Justice- Redux
« Reply #59 on: May 18, 2016, 11:32:55 am »
Maybe I'm wrong about this.  But hear me out.  See, when I see somebody claim to be trans and yet admit to not experiencing dysphoria, my first thought is that they're some fauxgressive snowflake who decided to use the label like it's a fashion accessory.  To me, it's like all those idiots who diagnose themselves with autism/ADHD/schizophrenia/whatever.  Or to go back a little bit, like the political lesbians of yesteryear.

Why do I think this?  My reasoning is simple when you get right down to it.  The definition of "gender dysphoria" is feeling uncomfortable with your assigned gender.  Logically, this means that people who don't have gender dysphoria have no problem with their assigned gender.  Riddle me this: if you feel comfortable with your assigned gender, how can you be trans?  The way I see it, it's like claiming to be diabetic when you have normal blood sugar.

And that's not even getting into how repulsive tucute/transtrender people can be:


Bullshit, your post specifically took umbrage with those "who turn themselves into mix and match sideshow freaks aren't transgender, it's not about being the opposite sex, it's about being special." Your post ridiculed those who do not conform to and reinforce the gender binary--most notably genderqueer people. Seriously dude, why does this bother you? They're not hurting anyone. They don't identify as male or female: but neither or an in-between. All they're really doing is blurring the lines behind bullshit social norms surrounding gender (and gender as a social construct is silly). They're not hurting people, they're active members of the transgender community (words matter, transgender is a catchall for any gender-variance and included genderqueer people, transsexual is one who typically transitions through hormonal or surgical means). Just because you found an idiot on the internet does not reinforce you post, and subsequent posts, ridiculing genderqueer people for not fitting into the gender-binary.

Second, both you and the post tied gender dysphoria to genitals, saying "Isn't experiencing gender dysphoria the definition of being trans?  Before SRS, of course." What you post and what you say repesents an outdated view by the medical professionals that was abandoned in the early 80's. I repeat, there is no qualification about feeling dysphoria regarding your genitals in order to be trans. Your post subsequently erased and ridiculed them as phonies for not living up to your expectation of a transsexual. There are a number of trans-individuals who do not want reassignment surgery, they are called non-ops. The prevalence is more common in FtMs than MtFs, and that is why I asked--twice--if your brother is trans, which of course Paragon never responds.

And that is pretty shitty dude. You make up having a trans-individual in your family for one debate with Ghoti so that you could tell him that trans-people need to glorify cis-culture if we want rights. You know, that whole "win the hearts and minds" bullshit. Almost as if the onus for solving transphobia should fall on trans-individuals to be nicer and better people, instead of on cissexuals (as an aggregated group) to...you know... NOT DISCRIMINATE. The fact that you would make up such a story highlights your intellectual dishonesty. You don't care about pesky things like facts or reality (with its known liberal bias), you care only about pushing your misogynist and transphobic agenda. The fact that you made up such a story also proves that you are a concern troll, interested only in pulling the board towards your opinions. Funny, that most of those issues involve women, and you like to take the side that is harmful to women.

Finally, I stopped counting, but what number is this for Paragon saying stupid things about trans-people? I'm pretty sure we're in the double digits here, I just stopped counting. Not that it matters, he'll still proudly proclaim his "support" for trans-people after he does his mental gymnastics to justifies transphobic posts like sleeping with a "trap" or murdering a trans-woman in a video game.
Does anyone take Donald Trump seriously, anymore?