Author Topic: Have an abortion, lose your right to vote  (Read 470 times)

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Offline dpareja

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Have an abortion, lose your right to vote
« on: January 21, 2017, 08:06:58 pm »
http://www.rawstory.com/2017/01/texas-women-who-get-abortions-would-lose-voting-rights-if-republican-lawmaker-has-his-way/

A Texas state representative has proposed legislation making either procuring or providing an abortion a felony in the state--no exceptions.

In Texas, having a felony conviction on your record means you lose your right to vote.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Have an abortion, lose your right to vote
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2017, 08:12:33 pm »
And some people say there's no war on women.
I also pissed in an old woman's sauce pan when I was a child. Have you?

Offline Sylvana

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Re: Have an abortion, lose your right to vote
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2017, 06:04:33 am »
There is no war on women.
For there to be a war one side needs to actually be able to fight back.

Offline Vypernight

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Re: Have an abortion, lose your right to vote
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2017, 07:57:37 am »
But if you shoot someone, you can still vote though, right?
Whenever I hear a politician speaking strongly for or against abortion, all I hear is, "I have no idea how to fix the economy!"

Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Have an abortion, lose your right to vote
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2017, 09:19:39 am »
Quote
In turn, abortion would be treated as a criminal homicide, except in cases where the individual’s life is at risk due to complications during pregnancy. This also means that anyone who has an abortion or provides the procedure could face felony charges and lose their right to vote.

I don't mean to diminish the disenfranchisement this would cause but with the justice system over there isn't a criminal homicide is going to mean serious time behind the bars? This would ruin people's lives much worse than "just" losing their right to vote. Losing a fundamental right like the right to vote permanently as a result of one mistake - assuming that a felony is an actual harmful action which in this case it would not be - is a disgraceful flaw in your system, anyway.

Offline dpareja

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Re: Have an abortion, lose your right to vote
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2017, 11:35:07 am »
Quote
In turn, abortion would be treated as a criminal homicide, except in cases where the individual’s life is at risk due to complications during pregnancy. This also means that anyone who has an abortion or provides the procedure could face felony charges and lose their right to vote.

I don't mean to diminish the disenfranchisement this would cause but with the justice system over there isn't a criminal homicide is going to mean serious time behind the bars? This would ruin people's lives much worse than "just" losing their right to vote. Losing a fundamental right like the right to vote permanently as a result of one mistake - assuming that a felony is an actual harmful action which in this case it would not be - is a disgraceful flaw in your system, anyway.

The issue is that everything, ultimately, comes back to being able to vote, especially in a system like the US where so many positions are elected.  If you can't vote, then nobody in an elected position has to listen to you and your grievances since you can't give them a vote you can't cast.

And yeah, felony disenfranchisement is bullshit. IIRC that clause of the Fourteenth Amendment was only really meant to target the major players in the Confederacy, but the Supreme Court has allowed it to target basically anyone convicted of a crime.

But if you shoot someone, you can still vote though, right?

In Maine and Vermont, you can still vote even while you're incarcerated for a crime. (Same up here, after Sauve v Canada.)
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Have an abortion, lose your right to vote
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2017, 12:02:23 pm »
Quote
In turn, abortion would be treated as a criminal homicide, except in cases where the individual’s life is at risk due to complications during pregnancy. This also means that anyone who has an abortion or provides the procedure could face felony charges and lose their right to vote.

I don't mean to diminish the disenfranchisement this would cause but with the justice system over there isn't a criminal homicide is going to mean serious time behind the bars? This would ruin people's lives much worse than "just" losing their right to vote. Losing a fundamental right like the right to vote permanently as a result of one mistake - assuming that a felony is an actual harmful action which in this case it would not be - is a disgraceful flaw in your system, anyway.

The issue is that everything, ultimately, comes back to being able to vote, especially in a system like the US where so many positions are elected.  If you can't vote, then nobody in an elected position has to listen to you and your grievances since you can't give them a vote you can't cast.

Like I said, I don't mean to diminish the disenfranchisement effect and it's very important to discuss it. I just find it odd to bring only that up when prison time fucks up your life in so many other ways, too and many of them even more fundamental to your everyday life. The effects to your family and specially to your children, social relationships, employment possibilities, general social stigma, physical and mental health and whatever other effects the lost years of your life have.

Offline dpareja

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Re: Have an abortion, lose your right to vote
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2017, 12:35:59 pm »
Quote
In turn, abortion would be treated as a criminal homicide, except in cases where the individual’s life is at risk due to complications during pregnancy. This also means that anyone who has an abortion or provides the procedure could face felony charges and lose their right to vote.

I don't mean to diminish the disenfranchisement this would cause but with the justice system over there isn't a criminal homicide is going to mean serious time behind the bars? This would ruin people's lives much worse than "just" losing their right to vote. Losing a fundamental right like the right to vote permanently as a result of one mistake - assuming that a felony is an actual harmful action which in this case it would not be - is a disgraceful flaw in your system, anyway.

The issue is that everything, ultimately, comes back to being able to vote, especially in a system like the US where so many positions are elected.  If you can't vote, then nobody in an elected position has to listen to you and your grievances since you can't give them a vote you can't cast.

Like I said, I don't mean to diminish the disenfranchisement effect and it's very important to discuss it. I just find it odd to bring only that up when prison time fucks up your life in so many other ways, too and many of them even more fundamental to your everyday life. The effects to your family and specially to your children, social relationships, employment possibilities, general social stigma, physical and mental health and whatever other effects the lost years of your life have.

But that still comes back to the right to vote, because if you can vote, then you can vote for people who will put in place programs to help people in your situation recover from that experience and better integrate back into society. So while all of those things are important and have to be discussed, ultimately it all comes back to the ability to have a direct influence on the political process and public policy, which, in most US states, you lose at a bare minimum while you're in jail.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Have an abortion, lose your right to vote
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2017, 03:01:02 pm »
But that still comes back to the right to vote, because if you can vote, then you can vote for people who will put in place programs to help people in your situation recover from that experience and better integrate back into society. So while all of those things are important and have to be discussed, ultimately it all comes back to the ability to have a direct influence on the political process and public policy, which, in most US states, you lose at a bare minimum while you're in jail.

We have the same picture but view it from slightly different angles. The right to vote is a vital piece in the puzzle but it's much less useful if the practical circumstances make it difficult or practically impossible to have the time and energy to acquire an informed opinion about the issues and candidates and get to the voting place to cast your vote.

Edit: also. the human suffering needs to be acknowledged to fight the dehumanization of the felons.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 03:03:54 pm by SCarpelan »

Offline dpareja

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Re: Have an abortion, lose your right to vote
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2017, 03:21:14 pm »
But that still comes back to the right to vote, because if you can vote, then you can vote for people who will put in place programs to help people in your situation recover from that experience and better integrate back into society. So while all of those things are important and have to be discussed, ultimately it all comes back to the ability to have a direct influence on the political process and public policy, which, in most US states, you lose at a bare minimum while you're in jail.

We have the same picture but view it from slightly different angles. The right to vote is a vital piece in the puzzle but it's much less useful if the practical circumstances make it difficult or practically impossible to have the time and energy to acquire an informed opinion about the issues and candidates and get to the voting place to cast your vote.

Edit: also. the human suffering needs to be acknowledged to fight the dehumanization of the felons.

Catch-22: Felons need to be humanized for their suffering to be acknowledged.

(More reasons I like Canada: Section 3 is so absolute that only the people at the very top of the Elections agencies don't get to vote.)
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?