Author Topic: Ben Carson Seeks GOP Nomination  (Read 4363 times)

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Offline dpareja

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Re: Ben Carson Seeks GOP Nomination
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2015, 06:58:24 pm »
Feel free to disagree with this, but then Senator Obama also had little executive experience, so I don't think that's a  card that Democrats should play against Ben Carson. I'm more worried about his lunatic beliefs.

Obama was a senator.

Which means he was in the legislative branch, not the executive. As I recall, before Obama/Biden won in 2008, the last Senator-Senator ticket to win was Kennedy-Johnson. Typically it was Governors or Vice-Presidents who won Presidential elections.

Honestly I don't understand why the role of governor is considered a much better preparation for president than Senator.

Because Governor is an executive branch position and Senator is not.
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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: Ben Carson Seeks GOP Nomination
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2015, 08:21:58 pm »
Feel free to disagree with this, but then Senator Obama also had little executive experience, so I don't think that's a  card that Democrats should play against Ben Carson. I'm more worried about his lunatic beliefs.

Obama was a senator.

Which means he was in the legislative branch, not the executive. As I recall, before Obama/Biden won in 2008, the last Senator-Senator ticket to win was Kennedy-Johnson. Typically it was Governors or Vice-Presidents who won Presidential elections.

Honestly I don't understand why the role of governor is considered a much better preparation for president than Senator.

Because Governor is an executive branch position and Senator is not.


By which standard the best qualification would be some Secretary role.

This is something unique to the US - the belief that people with no Federal experience are better qualified for that job for that reason.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Ben Carson Seeks GOP Nomination
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2015, 08:33:30 pm »
Feel free to disagree with this, but then Senator Obama also had little executive experience, so I don't think that's a  card that Democrats should play against Ben Carson. I'm more worried about his lunatic beliefs.

Obama was a senator.

Which means he was in the legislative branch, not the executive. As I recall, before Obama/Biden won in 2008, the last Senator-Senator ticket to win was Kennedy-Johnson. Typically it was Governors or Vice-Presidents who won Presidential elections.

Honestly I don't understand why the role of governor is considered a much better preparation for president than Senator.

Because Governor is an executive branch position and Senator is not.


By which standard the best qualification would be some Secretary role.

This is something unique to the US - the belief that people with no Federal experience are better qualified for that job for that reason.

Not some Secretary role. Governor is the position most analogous to President without actually being President--chief executive of a government.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Ben Carson Seeks GOP Nomination
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2015, 11:10:28 pm »
I wouldn't put too much weight on the experience argument. Taken to the limit, it suggests that since the job most similar president is, well, president,  every election should be won by the incumbent. Also, do away with term limits so people can be re-elected indefinitely, and if the president dies you should try to get the president of another country to take the job.

A governor and a senator are similar to a president on different axes. Trying to sort out which is more similar* seems pointless when other considerations are going to have more weight.

*Euclidean norm of political-office-space!
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Offline rookie

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Re: Ben Carson Seeks GOP Nomination
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2015, 12:04:38 am »
Well, if we're looking at it like that, the C.E.O. of a very large successful company would be pretty similar. Budget constraints, administering a massive entity, dealing with "the other side". And they are usually beholden to shareholders.
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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: Ben Carson Seeks GOP Nomination
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2015, 02:48:27 am »
Feel free to disagree with this, but then Senator Obama also had little executive experience, so I don't think that's a  card that Democrats should play against Ben Carson. I'm more worried about his lunatic beliefs.

Obama was a senator.

Which means he was in the legislative branch, not the executive. As I recall, before Obama/Biden won in 2008, the last Senator-Senator ticket to win was Kennedy-Johnson. Typically it was Governors or Vice-Presidents who won Presidential elections.

Honestly I don't understand why the role of governor is considered a much better preparation for president than Senator.

Because Governor is an executive branch position and Senator is not.


By which standard the best qualification would be some Secretary role.

This is something unique to the US - the belief that people with no Federal experience are better qualified for that job for that reason.

Not some Secretary role. Governor is the position most analogous to President without actually being President--chief executive of a government.

Except the things you deal with are radically dissimilar. What's a governor's day-to-day job? Law enforcement issues, public health, transport. The president has to maintain national security and negotiate with other countries. Governors simply have no frame of reference for that, unlike, say, Secretary of State, or a Congressperson.

Well, if we're looking at it like that, the C.E.O. of a very large successful company would be pretty similar. Budget constraints, administering a massive entity, dealing with "the other side". And they are usually beholden to shareholders.

CEOs are very rarely beholden to anyone. Shareholder rights are very weak in the US.

Being a CEO, again, is radically different to being president. There is no separation of powers, there are no treaties to negotiate, no laws to write or Senators to negotiate with. And the objectives are radically different - you're not there to do the general good, you're there to make a private profit. Other people are subordinates, not citizens.

By far the most successful presidents are Senators (Johnson, Kennedy, Lincoln, Obama, Truman) or Secretaries of something or other (Bush the Greater, FDR, though FDR was also a governor of New York for one term). The only actual CEO to ever become president was Bush 43 and we all know how he turned out.

Probably the best qualification of all is the Vice-Presidency.
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Offline rookie

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Re: Ben Carson Seeks GOP Nomination
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2015, 09:22:46 am »
And there's my point. Thank you Fred. Although, for whatever is worth, it doesn't really seem like politicians (especially presidents) are really beholden to anyone other than the special interest money that got them there.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2015, 10:49:50 am by rookie »
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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: Ben Carson Seeks GOP Nomination
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2015, 09:17:26 pm »
And there's my point. Thank you Fred. Although, for whatever is worth, it doesn't really seem like politicians (especially presidents) are really beholden to anyone other than the special interest money that got them there.

Depends on the politician. Bush 2 was certainly not his own man, for instance. But, say, Johnson, FDR, different story.
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

The party's name is the Democratic Party. It has been since 1830. Please spell correctly.

"The party must go wholly one way or wholly the other. It cannot face in both directions at the same time."
-FDR