Marines Desecrate Afghan Corpses

[TenfoldMaquette]

...respect for the memory of the dead is one thing, but the corpse itself is insensate.

So we should respect the dead but not their bodies?

Maybe I worded it wrong, but what I was intending to say is that the respect due to the dead is directed at who they were as a person - their consciousness, in other words - and not directed at the meat they're situated in. The corpse is just organs, muscle, and other flesh; it itself is insensate and does not house (whether you believe in the soul or, like me, believe consciousness is a bi-product of biochemistry) the person who died anymore. Ultimately, it's not any different from the corpse of any other animal.

I don't agree with what the marines did, for the record. I just hold no illusions about the sanctity or even cleanliness of death.

[Cataclysm]

How many of us here have expressed a desire to desecrate Fred Phelps grave? I see to recall a thread on the old board where quite a few people came up with rather creative ways to give Fred a nice little post mortem 'fuck-you, you piece of shit' message when the time comes.

Fred is just a troll that most, if not all of us, really only know by reputation. Those marines on the other hand, have actually fought the Taliban; they actually have a reason to hate them.

Is it right?
No, but it is human nature. And for that reason I can't get overly annoyed at the marines.  What annoys me is that they are compromising the mission. They should have known better. (i.e. not got caught)

Well there's saying and doing.

[Smurfette Principle]

How many of us here have expressed a desire to desecrate Fred Phelps grave? I see to recall a thread on the old board where quite a few people came up with rather creative ways to give Fred a nice little post mortem 'fuck-you, you piece of shit' message when the time comes.

Fred is just a troll that most, if not all of us, really only know by reputation. Those marines on the other hand, have actually fought the Taliban; they actually have a reason to hate them.

Is it right?
No, but it is human nature. And for that reason I can't get overly annoyed at the marines.  What annoys me is that they are compromising the mission. They should have known better. (i.e. not got caught)

Well there's saying and doing.

Yes. Many of us talk about committing acts of violence that are physically impossible. Just because I have the urge to castrate Phelps with the spur of a platypus doesn't mean I could actually do it. Even if we could, most people have the ability to conduct ourselves despite our urges. That's what distinguishes us from a crab or a spider or something else that relies on instinct and not actual thought.

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

The important thing to remember about this particular act is that, regardless of whether you think corpses deserve more than this or believe them to be nothing but pieces of meat, this gesture makes our soldiers and our nation look horrible. It's no way to win people over to your cause, especially when that is a major priority in Afghanistan, where many people don't even know why we're there:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1YAv_tPmho" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1YAv_tPmho</a>

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

Naturally Rick Perry is defending the Marines and using this as an excuse to attack the Obama Administration for its "disdain for the military."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/15/rick-perry-marines_n_1207350.html?icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl2%7Csec3_lnk2%26pLid%3D127844

[Juna Starrider]

While I agree with Lex, that once a person is dead, the body is just a piece of carbon waiting to decompose (Never understood open casket thing, with the loved ones sobbing all around it), I do understand that many people may not share my views.  That's why even if my most hated person at the moment (Looking at you, crazy psychopathic step-sister) were to suddenly drop dead, I would not drop my pants and take a wiz on her body.   Besides I'd probably end up aiming wrong and wet my pants.  Damn men, you've got a built-in firehose.

[clockworkgirl21]

A dead body is dead, therefor nothing can hurt it, but we should hold our soldiers up to a higher standard than this.

[Shane for Wax]

How many of us here have expressed a desire to desecrate Fred Phelps grave? I see to recall a thread on the old board where quite a few people came up with rather creative ways to give Fred a nice little post mortem 'fuck-you, you piece of shit' message when the time comes.

Fred is just a troll that most, if not all of us, really only know by reputation. Those marines on the other hand, have actually fought the Taliban; they actually have a reason to hate them.

Is it right?
No, but it is human nature. And for that reason I can't get overly annoyed at the marines.  What annoys me is that they are compromising the mission. They should have known better. (i.e. not got caught)

Well there's saying and doing.

Yes. Many of us talk about committing acts of violence that are physically impossible. Just because I have the urge to castrate Phelps with the spur of a platypus doesn't mean I could actually do it. Even if we could, most people have the ability to conduct ourselves despite our urges. That's what distinguishes us from a crab or a spider or something else that relies on instinct and not actual thought.

What Smurfette said.

Though I may say something that doesn't necessarily mean I'll do it. I may hate some people with the fire of a thousand suns but that doesn't mean I'd go thru with my idle fantasies. They're just that, idle fantasies.

[ironbite]

Naturally Rick Perry is defending the Marines and using this as an excuse to attack the Obama Administration for its "disdain for the military."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/15/rick-perry-marines_n_1207350.html?icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl2%7Csec3_lnk2%26pLid%3D127844

Oh Rick Perry...always trying to score some sort of political point somehow.

Ironbite-good for you Perry...good for you.

[Cataclysm]

Might as well. His career is over after his little forgetful incident, "Strong" video, and claiming we should go back to Iraq.

[Canadian Mojo]

How many of us here have expressed a desire to desecrate Fred Phelps grave? I see to recall a thread on the old board where quite a few people came up with rather creative ways to give Fred a nice little post mortem 'fuck-you, you piece of shit' message when the time comes.

Fred is just a troll that most, if not all of us, really only know by reputation. Those marines on the other hand, have actually fought the Taliban; they actually have a reason to hate them.

Is it right?
No, but it is human nature. And for that reason I can't get overly annoyed at the marines.  What annoys me is that they are compromising the mission. They should have known better. (i.e. not got caught)

Well there's saying and doing.

Yes. Many of us talk about committing acts of violence that are physically impossible. Just because I have the urge to castrate Phelps with the spur of a platypus doesn't mean I could actually do it. Even if we could, most people have the ability to conduct ourselves despite our urges. That's what distinguishes us from a crab or a spider or something else that relies on instinct and not actual thought.

What Smurfette said.

Though I may say something that doesn't necessarily mean I'll do it. I may hate some people with the fire of a thousand suns but that doesn't mean I'd go thru with my idle fantasies. They're just that, idle fantasies.

But, that thought is in the back of your mind. That's the problem. Humans are civilized, not domesticated. Take away the things that make us (or at the very least allow us) to play nice, and we don't. History has shown us time, and time, and time, and time (ad nauseum) again that we are nasty little pieces of work.

We ask these men to kill for us and we train them to do it damn well. Unfortunately, part of that effectiveness comes from dehumanizing the enemy, and when you do that, shit like this can happen.

My irritation is reserved for the system that put these men in this situation since this is hardly the first time we have seen the rules of war utterly disregarded with, lets face it, presidential approval. If we're not telling them to play nice and are in fact demonstrating the opposite, how can we expect them to?

[Shane for Wax]

Yet somehow soldiers ages past have been able to give their enemies respect when they have been killed. I really can't excuse it.

[Canadian Mojo]

Yet somehow soldiers ages past have been able to give their enemies respect when they have been killed. I really can't excuse it.

No.

Some have, some haven't. The difference is that in the past what happened on the battlefield tended to stay on the battlefield.

I remember watching and old series on WWII when I was a kid (I can't remember the name and it was pretty old when I was watching it). There was one scene where a Soviet soldier was smashing the crosses marking German graves because of his hatred of them due to the atrocities they, not them specifically, but the German army as a whole, committed on his countrymen. It was filmed on 8mm, or the Russian equivalent, by a soldier who's job was war reporter, processed and developed in a military facility, and was only released because the military wanted it to be released. That's why the past seems so much more sanitary, it was filtered and spoon fed.

[Art Vandelay]

This is a brick:

This is a corpse: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver (linked to err on the side of caution)

The first is a brick. It has been a brick from the moment of its creation. It is nothing more than a building block.

I was referring to L's claims of "do not disrespect the dead (just because, seemingly)". I know full well bricks and corpses are both different objects.

The second was, at one point in time, a living, breathing human being. When it was alive it had friends and family that loved it. When it died it was mourned by those it left behind. Social species that we are, no one dies truly alone. There will always be one other human being who noticed their passing. Who now misses them.

When you piss on a corpse you are symbolically saying "Your loved one is unworthy of respect. This person that you cared about is now no more than my latrine."

All that is simply symbolism and cultural values. All of which is highly subjective at best.

And the L was correct. You might never be a brick (some freaky cremation aside) but we will all one day be a corpse. To disrespect your fellow man in such a manner is to disrespect yourself.

We'll also all most likely be a bunch of carbon dioxide atoms one day too, but you don't see people getting their panties in a twist about respecting those little guys. Like I said, "pissing on corpse = disrespect of self" is a purely subjective concept.

[Canadian Mojo]

Google really is your friend. The series I was thinking of is 'The World at War.' It was made in 1973, produced by Jeremy Isaacs and narrated by Sir Lawrence Olivier. I haven't found any you tube episodes yet, but I'd imagine it would have been the Stalingrad episode.