Petition to Fire Don Lemon for Supporting Presumption of Innocence

[Ultimate Paragon]

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/s/cnn-don-lemon-fired-change-org-petition-says-123249779.html

I would think refusing to judge until you have all the facts would be called being a responsible journalist.  While I disagree with his stance (I think he's guilty as sin), I don't have Don's level of responsibility, nor do I think he should be fired.

Moreover, this serves to demonstrate the hypocrisy of radflakes.

"Check your privilege!"  "Let people with lived experiences speak first!"  "Listen and believe!"

All this time, they've been saying "shut up you cishet white men, let marginalized people speak on this issues, they know what they're talking about and you don't!"...and now, here's a marginalized person speaking on the issues, and being black AND gay is pretty fucking marginalized (especially by their standards), and they want to shut him down because they disagree.

If there's anything this proves, it's that they only care about "progressive stack" and the identity of the speaker when it's to their advantage and can be used to legitimize their beliefs.  When a woman or minority speaks out of turn, they're the first to smack them back down.

[mythbuster43]

While I'm hardly a fan of Don Lemon (he hasn't exactly been a sterling example of intelligent journalism, what with his speculation about black holes being a factor in the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17), having him fired for spouting his opinion is just ridiculous. I don't agree with his opinion, (nor with his past opinions such as being for stop-and-frisk), but getting him fired accomplishes absolutely nothing. It will only give ammo to the reactionary crowd to call social justice movements hypocritical and ignore their points.

This is why people concerned with social justice should avoid tumblr and other places where the extremist sjw's congregate. Internet mob action never results in good things.

[ironbite]

While I think he should be fired for being an incredibly shitty journalist, I'm not gonna call for his head just because he has an opinion.  If I did that, I'd be getting a Scottman's Skullcutter and going to town.

Ironbite-though an Eyelander would let me keep track.

[rageaholic]

See this is when social justice warriors can fuck off.  How many times have we seen them going after someones job because they express an opinion they don't like?  A lot of the time, the 'bad opinions' are taken misinterpreted to make the offender seem more monstrous than they really are.  Other times they are based on complete lies (such as the recent drama surrounding Thunderf00t).

[Lt. Fred]

Devil's advocate.

This petition will not have him fired; obviously this is just the actions of a disorganised individual, and cannot be blamed on the movement as a whole, as you just dishonestly did. Sometimes people respond to something that, like this, legitimately infuriates them in a non-strategic way. If you're concerned about that, join the movement and help it organise.

That said, Lemon was clearly being an idiot, or perhaps trying to cover up racist assault. This media rage lasts a few days. If you can sell an event as "beyond politics" or "needing more investigating" for a week, everyone forgets and he systematically does it again, the student is kicked out or otherwise bullied and nothing changes. You have to lock in change immediately, that week. Investigations have to start straight away; legislative change has to start immediately. Anyone who opposes that supports the crime.

Finally, it is useful for this sort of thing to happen for the simple reason that people should, through fear perhaps, be required to think before they speak on these sorts of issues on live TV.

[Sigmaleph]

Finally, it is useful for this sort of thing to happen for the simple reason that people should, through fear perhaps, be required to think before they speak on these sorts of issues on live TV.

I would contend that it's damaging for this sort of thing to happen, on the grounds that it discourages people from ever going against the consensus on who is the latest Designated Evil Person.

This petition would happen regardless of how right or wrong Don Lemon is to say "wait for the evidence". The more petitions like this one happen, the more people will be afraid to publicly say that they think a popular narrative is wrong or too simplistic, and popular narratives are wrong or too simplistic depressingly often.

[Lt. Fred]

Finally, it is useful for this sort of thing to happen for the simple reason that people should, through fear perhaps, be required to think before they speak on these sorts of issues on live TV.

I would contend that it's damaging for this sort of thing to happen, on the grounds that it discourages people from ever going against the consensus on who is the latest Designated Evil Person.

This petition would happen regardless of how right or wrong Don Lemon is to say "wait for the evidence". The more petitions like this one happen, the more people will be afraid to publicly say that they think a popular narrative is wrong or too simplistic, and popular narratives are wrong or too simplistic depressingly often.

Or rather, the press would not say that groups like Black Lives are wrong, out of fear. This is a useful thing.

[Sigmaleph]

Why? What mechanism decides that the groups the press will not dare cross are the ones who are right, exactly?

[rageaholic]

Finally, it is useful for this sort of thing to happen for the simple reason that people should, through fear perhaps, be required to think before they speak on these sorts of issues on live TV.

I disagree completely.  Using fear to make people too afraid to say certain things is never going to lead anywhere good. 

[Lt. Fred]

Why? What mechanism decides that the groups the press will not dare cross are the ones who are right, exactly?

At the moment, pure power and money. Perhaps Black Lives might be able to drag the press towards the centre.

[Lt. Fred]

To be clear, there has rarely been a more useful tool, for anti-racist groups, than fear of humiliation. There is not, really, any other tool at all. Look at the experience of Jews. In the 40s, anti-semitism was publicly acceptable. In the 50s, the ADA started calling people who said anti-semitic people in public Hitler over and over and got them fired. By the 70s anti-semites like Nixon the fuck shut up about it. Now it's basically gone.

The same thing should be done for other racists.

[Eiki-mun]

To be clear, there has rarely been a more useful tool, for anti-racist groups, than fear of humiliation. There is not, really, any other tool at all. Look at the experience of Jews. In the 40s, anti-semitism was publicly acceptable. In the 50s, the ADA started calling people who said anti-semitic people in public Hitler over and over and got them fired. By the 70s anti-semites like Nixon the fuck shut up about it. Now it's basically gone.

The same thing should be done for other racists.

Wow. I gotta admit, I never thought I'd see someone on this forum openly endorsing 1984 tactics of social control.

[Lt. Fred]

To be clear, there has rarely been a more useful tool, for anti-racist groups, than fear of humiliation. There is not, really, any other tool at all. Look at the experience of Jews. In the 40s, anti-semitism was publicly acceptable. In the 50s, the ADA started calling people who said anti-semitic people in public Hitler over and over and got them fired. By the 70s anti-semites like Nixon the fuck shut up about it. Now it's basically gone.

The same thing should be done for other racists.

Wow. I gotta admit, I never thought I'd see someone on this forum openly endorsing 1984 tactics of social control.

That is how all social groups set all norms always, of course.

[Eiki-mun]

To be clear, there has rarely been a more useful tool, for anti-racist groups, than fear of humiliation. There is not, really, any other tool at all. Look at the experience of Jews. In the 40s, anti-semitism was publicly acceptable. In the 50s, the ADA started calling people who said anti-semitic people in public Hitler over and over and got them fired. By the 70s anti-semites like Nixon the fuck shut up about it. Now it's basically gone.

The same thing should be done for other racists.

Wow. I gotta admit, I never thought I'd see someone on this forum openly endorsing 1984 tactics of social control.

That is how all social groups set all norms always, of course.

You are endorsing the well-known "chilling effect" on journalism as a positive force for control, likely because it's going in favor of the left wing in this case. Would you be advocating the same thing if people were being humiliated for, say, being gay, or being atheist, or being in favor of a flat tax?

[Lt. Fred]

To be clear, there has rarely been a more useful tool, for anti-racist groups, than fear of humiliation. There is not, really, any other tool at all. Look at the experience of Jews. In the 40s, anti-semitism was publicly acceptable. In the 50s, the ADA started calling people who said anti-semitic people in public Hitler over and over and got them fired. By the 70s anti-semites like Nixon the fuck shut up about it. Now it's basically gone.

The same thing should be done for other racists.

Wow. I gotta admit, I never thought I'd see someone on this forum openly endorsing 1984 tactics of social control.

That is how all social groups set all norms always, of course.

You are endorsing the well-known "chilling effect" on journalism as a positive force for control, likely because it's going in favor of the left wing in this case. Would you be advocating the same thing if people were being humiliated for, say, being gay, or being atheist, or being in favor of a flat tax?

There are some views that are worthy of discussion. There are others that are not. The left should, in part, be about changing norms to reduce or end forms of bigotry.