Author Topic: Internet shutdown to protest SOPA?  (Read 15819 times)

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Offline Her3tiK

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Internet shutdown to protest SOPA?
« on: January 06, 2012, 02:32:22 am »
Several large internet sites, including Facebook, Google, and Yahoo, are considering shutting their sites down for a day to protest SOPA. I don't know how effective this will be as a protest, but watching people figure out what to do without the interwebs will be hilarious, especially those who don't know about it beforehand.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNQh56czKgc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNQh56czKgc</a>
Personally, I'd like to see something like this drag on for a week at minimum, in order to really drive the point home, but that's probably not realistic. Anyone suppose these companies will actually go through with it?
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Re: Internet shutdown to protest SOPA?
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2012, 02:35:16 am »
They might but then again what will people who don't want SOPA to happen do without it for even a day or a week? It's kinda ingrained.

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Re: Internet shutdown to protest SOPA?
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2012, 03:48:34 am »
As if the people who can actually stop SOPA will give a fuck.

Offline DrFishcake

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Re: Internet shutdown to protest SOPA?
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2012, 04:46:15 am »
Whatever it takes, I support.

Art Vandelay

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Re: Internet shutdown to protest SOPA?
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2012, 05:37:52 am »
That's a bit of a cop out to say the least. These companies are fucking huge, and most importantly, rich. Use a bit of that corporate money to get your way, guys. It's the only thing that actually seems to work.

Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Internet shutdown to protest SOPA?
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2012, 06:50:21 am »
That's a bit of a cop out to say the least. These companies are fucking huge, and most importantly, rich. Use a bit of that corporate money to get your way, guys. It's the only thing that actually seems to work.
It's mentioned in the video that at least Google has bought a bunch of lobbyists and has given money to the Heritage Foundation (=bribing the republicans) which seems to be true. Cenk also suggests that the whole point of this bill is to give the politicians a chance to blackmail contributions from the internet companies. Unfortunately, if this is the case, the companies have no choise but to give them what they want since I don't think they are bluffing about being prepared to let the bill pass.

Offline N. De Plume

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Re: Internet shutdown to protest SOPA?
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2012, 09:00:42 am »
They might but then again what will people who don't want SOPA to happen do without it for even a day or a week? It's kinda ingrained.
Sometimes you gotta make pretty big sacrifices for the sake of making your point. And what is worse, losing almost all the internet for a week due to a protest under our control, or effectively losing it all indefinitely due to SOPA?

Really, I do think the shutdown would have to be more than a day to make the point. And I know I could adapt rather easily.
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Offline sandman

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Re: Internet shutdown to protest SOPA?
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2012, 09:42:56 am »
For those not familiar with this:


Wikipedia:

"The Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA), also known as H.R. 3261, is a bill that was introduced in the United States House of Representatives on October 26, 2011, by Representative Lamar Smith (R-TX) and a bipartisan group of 12 initial co-sponsors. The bill expands the ability of U.S. law enforcement and copyright holders to fight online trafficking in copyrighted intellectual property and counterfeit goods.

The originally proposed bill would allow the U.S. Department of Justice, as well as copyright holders, to seek court orders against websites accused of enabling or facilitating copyright infringement. Depending on who requests the court orders, the actions could include barring online advertising networks and payment facilitators such as PayPal from doing business with the allegedly infringing website, barring search engines from linking to such sites, and requiring Internet service providers to block access to such sites. The bill would make unauthorized streaming of copyrighted content a crime, with a maximum penalty of five years in prison for 10 pieces of music or movies within six months. The bill also gives immunity to Internet services that voluntarily take action against websites dedicated to infringement, while making liable for damages any copyright holder who knowingly misrepresents that a website is dedicated to infringement."




On the surface, I don't really have much of a problem with the bill. The penalties provided for are WAY, WAY out of proportion to the offense (and that I do have a problem with), but the bill itself seems to be intended as an attempt to curb what has become a real problem in the music, film, television, software, and publishing industries. This bill does not seem to me to be an attempt to "extort" money from internet companies; there are a lot more effective (and scarier) ways to do that if that's the intention.

I consider that the bill was introduced by a conservative Republican, and the current Reps seem to be severely allergic to any government action that doesn't do one of two things. SOPA does not do the first of those two: pander shamelessly to their fringe base. I can't help but think it must be the other one then: pander shamelessly to big business. SOPA seems to me to be protectionist legislation designed to show these big corporate donors who have been freaking out like Ann Coulter at a Phish concert over online piracy that Congress is doing something. Whether or not online piracy is really severely hurting these industries is not the issue (although in my opinion the data shows pretty conclusively that it is....badly), what matters is the fact that these huge, multi-billion dollar politically active businesses believe that online piracy is hurting them. So Congress jumps into "action."

As I said, on the surface, I'm not too worried about SOPA.....on the surface. Online piracy of intellectual property is a significant, growing problem today with the real potential to kill a lot of things we love like huge, expensive Hollywood movies, blockbuster games, books, and music. If the creators and producers of these things can not be reasonably expected to be compensated for their creative efforts and fiscal investment, they will simply stop doing it. Would Stephen King have written "The Stand" if he had to work full time as an English teacher in a Bangor high school because he couldn't make a living as a writer? Maybe, but it would have taken him a hell of a lot longer and what publisher would invest in the production and distribution of the book even if he did write it? ID studios changed the gaming world with DOOM!, but if when it first came out (I know it's been massively pirated since then, but I'm talking when it was new) it was simply copied and pirated, ID studios would have collapsed into bankruptcy and there would have been no DOOM 2, or HALO, or Half Life, because it would have been demonstrated that you couldn't actually make any money programming video games.

We're already seeing the effects of this with intrusive and annoying DRM on games and I'm sure I'm not the only one that noticed Hollywood is very, very, very reluctant to make any film that they are not already 100% certain will make a 100 million dollars in the first month just so they can absorb the financial hit from the inevitable piracy. This has resulted in "The Hangover 2," a near carbon copy of the first film, and TWO movies released at almost the same time with the exact same plot. ("Friends With Benefits" and " No Strings Attached.") We get asinine Michael Bay action pics with more CGI than story and asinine gross-out comedies because studios can no longer afford to take on a chance on an edgy or independent film anymore. The number of movie studios that can survive a flop can be counted on one hand, and while online piracy is not the sole cause of that, it is a contributing factor, and the only contributing factor that the industries believe they can act on.

But even though I understand where SOPA is coming from, and (as a writer myself) I am somewhat sympathetic to the intent of the bill (protecting intellectual property from online piracy), I do take some issues with it. The penalties proposed are ridiculous. 5 years in jail for 10 songs? Really? ("Hey, buddy. What're ya in for?" "I downloaded a Lady Gaga album." "You an' me gonna be friends. You sure got a pretty mouth.....") There is no real method of enforcement. No one has ever figured out how to police or regulate the 'Net. I'm pretty trying it would be like trying to empty the Atlantic Ocean with a sieve. I just don't see how SOPA will do anything to deal with the issue of online piracy. It's already illegal, SOPA just makes it more illegal and makes it easier for the Justice Department to take action against people who download illegally obtained material. (You know, because going after the consumer of an illegal product is always the most effective way to end the traffic, right? That's worked out really well in the "war on drugs," hasn't it?)

Online piracy is a significant problem, but it's not going to be solved by some magic legislation from Washington. it will be solved when the industry pulls its head out of its collective ass and develops some non-intrusive, effective form of DRM that doesn't automatically treat every legitimate user like a scumbag pirate. In its current form, DRM is like a really suspicious assistant principal watching your every goddamn move, just waiting for you to slip up even a little. Huh. Whaddayknow. Current DRM is the digital Ed Rooney. Agent Rooney of the Matrix. Be afraid. Be very afraid. In its current form DRM is bullshit, and the data industries better learn that and figure out how to do it right before Congress does more stupid, useless shit like SOPA.

And I haven't even touched on the potential for abuse in SOPA, which is extreme. Piracy is a problem, yes, but putting censorship powers in the hands of government and corporations is NOT the answer.

So while I understand and am sympathetic to the (surface) intentions of SOPA, it is such a badly thought-out piece of pandering shit legislation that I could never support it.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2012, 09:46:02 am by sandman »
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Offline Oriet

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Re: Internet shutdown to protest SOPA?
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2012, 03:30:22 pm »
One problem the government (and far too many people) have with digital distribution of copyrighted materials is that it is not equivalent to distribution of stolen goods. I agree that it is still illegal distribution still, but there is no deprivation of an original copy. It really is more like going to a museum and taking a high quality of a painting and distributing copies of that than stealing the painting, scanning it onto a computer, and distributing it. There is also no real monetary difference between distributing one copy or a million copies of something digitally, unlike with actual physical medium.

There also ends up being the issue of people being able to make copies and convert media forms of things they have purchased, like music, films, and pictures, for their own use, such as putting a copy of a song on their MP3 player or making a mix tape (though I suppose those are a little out-dated now). A lot of laws trying to prevent the illegal distribution of copyrighted material also impact what those who legally purchase said material can do with it for their own use, which is definite concern for those who like to keep a backup archive (or college students who want to bring music, movies, and games with them but don't want to risk losing the original disc on campus). This is especially bad with how overblown the punishment is for copying it.

However, I don't expect legislators to try stopping SOPA, as it's really a continuation of strengthening copyrights for those who can afford to.This is because it highly benefits large corporations and penalises small businesses and individuals, as only those with mountains of cash can afford to bring others to court over copyright infringement and afford the better lawyers. Even if a large company is found to be at fault they can still come out ahead. A good example of this is with when Microsoft literally copied and sold a program made by Stacker Electronics, including all of the labelling in the comments of the code and the Stacker logo that displayed on the screen. Microsoft admitted straight up in court they acted illegally and paid the fine, however Gates then said it was still a good business decision as Microsoft made way more money than they had to pay, and Stacker Electronics went out of business. Not because individuals pirated the software, but because a larger corporation with mountains of cash did.
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Offline m52nickerson

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Re: Internet shutdown to protest SOPA?
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2012, 05:09:02 pm »
As if the people who can actually stop SOPA will give a fuck.

...or know what any of those sites are.
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Offline sandman

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Re: Internet shutdown to protest SOPA?
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2012, 05:15:44 pm »
It really is more like going to a museum and taking a high quality of a painting and distributing copies of that than stealing the painting, scanning it onto a computer, and distributing it. There is also no real monetary difference between distributing one copy or a million copies of something digitally, unlike with actual physical medium.

No, because you paid for your admission to the museum and since the painting is not up for sale, you have not deprived the museum of significant revenue (aside from a 30 cent postcard from the gift shop, maybe). That's why no museum I've ever been to prohibits (non-flash) photography. It's more like going to a bookstore and scanning a new release hardcover with a hand scanner, then slapping that bitch into a PDF and emailing to all your friends. You obviously want the book, but you don't want to pay for it.

The book (or game/song/movie) is an item for sale, an item that took considerable time, effort, and resources to produce. An item the producer has every right to expect compensation for. If you take a copy of it without paying for it, you are stealing. You are depriving the producer of income. At no point in the legal process does "theft" necessitate the removal of a physical object. Data counts, too. The argument that "I would never have bought copy anyway so I am not depriving them of a sale" is nothing but a cowardly, shameless excuse. If I discovered that a book I had written was being copied and shared without my permission and with no compensation, I would at first be flattered, then livid. I would love to be able to support myself solely as a writer. If you think it's good enough to read....then it's good enough to pay for. If I want to give it away for free, that's my decision, not the consumer's.

I have very little sympathy for the piracy-excusers. "I would buy it if I could afford to." Well, tough shit. There's no Constitutional right to have everything you want. "I'm not hurting anyone." Yes, you are. You are hurting the producers of what you just pirated. And the fans, because you are actively discouraging them from making any more. "I'm not depriving them of a sale." Yes, you are. Obviously you want the item, otherwise you wouldn't pirate it.

Now I have no problems whatsoever with copying something for your own, personal use. I buy a new CD I will absolutely burn two extra copies so I can have one in the downstairs in the den and one in both cars. (Although now that I think of it, all the music in the den is on the computer anyway, and the cars both have MP3 jacks....so I guess I don't burn copies anymore, but I absolutely rip that disc onto my computer......however, I don't give copies of it to others.)

I think that those who excuse or justify piracy are doing it for the simplest of reasons: they want something but they don't want to pay for it. I can understand that. But that's not how the world works.
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Offline syaoranvee

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Re: Internet shutdown to protest SOPA?
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2012, 05:29:52 pm »
Quote
I have very little sympathy for the piracy-excusers. "I would buy it if I could afford to." Well, tough shit. There's no Constitutional right to have everything you want. "I'm not hurting anyone." Yes, you are.


Pirates Say The Darndest Things

My favorite is "Why the fuck is this bootleg so low quality damn it! Make another one better!"

Offline Cataclysm

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Re: Internet shutdown to protest SOPA?
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2012, 07:50:08 pm »
If TYT is right, the government is too scared of these internet businesses to not let them have their way.
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

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Offline DasFuchs

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Re: Internet shutdown to protest SOPA?
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2012, 09:25:12 pm »
my problem with it is at what point will they go in their "copyright" bullcrap. Anyone that's been to Youtube in the past year no doubt has seen the thousands and thousands of videos either muted, blocked or completely removed because some company calls copyright. From things as trivial as commercials and parts of a song or show to the full music and videos themselves.

Given how well they've (not) handled themselves in the past two years, I wouldn't be a damn bit surprised if they push to the point everything is being blocked because some million dollar singer/actor needs another five bucks in their pocket or they'll starve
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Offline Osama bin Bambi

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Re: Internet shutdown to protest SOPA?
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2012, 09:35:42 pm »
I generally think piracy is a bad idea for creativity, but SOPA is just ridiculous. A lot of people who download music without paying for it don't know that what they're doing can land them in jail.
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