Author Topic: Terminology: Sex, Gender and Gender Roles  (Read 3340 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Distind

  • Guest
Terminology: Sex, Gender and Gender Roles
« on: December 03, 2012, 10:10:27 am »
Terminology is important. Particularly since words are supposed to have a meaning, and if they have a consistent meaning they can be used to communicate clearly.

One of the more common tumblr sins I've seen is in conflating sex, gender and gender roles into one big post modernist buffet table.

... I was going to start this out with a dictionary definition of each, but in entering sex I got these suggestions
Sex offender registry
Sex offenders in my area
Sex and the City
Sex tumblr

I think that says something on it's own, in a few ways.

Anyway, onward!

Quote from: Sex
  • either the male or female division of a species, especially as differentiated with reference to the reproductive functions.
  • the sum of the structural and functional differences by which the male and female are distinguished, or the phenomena or behavior dependent on these differences.

Quote from: Gender
  • The sex of an individual, male or female, based on reproductive anatomy.
  • Sexual identity, especially in relation to society or culture.

Quote from: Gender Role
The pattern of masculine or feminine behavior of an individual that is defined by a particular culture and that is largely determined by a child's upbringing.

What's funny here is I've been attempting to stress using gender separate from sex, yet the medical definition does allow it the infuriatingly vague definition that some people cling to. While at the same time being a definition that when put into words would be openly rejected by those people. That said, when it's used I generally assume it to refer to sexual identity rather than actual sex. Which is actually useful, as the identity portion of the definition is far more mutable than sex.

That said, within the last week I referred to gender as bullshit, which was a mistake on my part. I should have said Gender Roles are. Not so much in that they don't exist, but in that subscribing to them makes you more of one sex or another. They don't, they may make you appear more in line with that sex to the public, but if you're going for public approval of your life I'm probably the last person to take any advice from.

The question would have to be, are these actually different things? Do the separate definitions actually mean anything? Am I safe in calling bullshit on people who claim their gender changes based on the room temperature, or will that piss people off too?

Offline starseeker

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 568
Re: Terminology: Sex, Gender and Gender Roles
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2012, 02:03:51 pm »
Well I know I'm biologically female but don't really give a damn about my gender (I fail at female gender roles very badly), but I don't get offended if people refer to me as a guy (especially online). So for me sex and gender are related but different concepts.

Offline Material Defender

  • Food Scientist in Space
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 959
  • Gender: Male
  • Pilot of the Pyro-GX
Re: Terminology: Sex, Gender and Gender Roles
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2012, 03:33:30 pm »
I can understand genderfluid people to a degree, but being offended that people can't follow your fluidity is dumb. I tend to have some amount of genderfluidity, but I generally stay towards the male end of the side so it's not a big deal.

Gender Roles tend to be full of shit.
The material needs a defender more than the spiritual. If there is a higher power, it can defend itself from the material. Thus denotes 'higher power'.

"Not to know is bad. Not to want to know is worse. Not to hope is unthinkable. Not to care is unforgivable." -Nigerian Saying

Offline Osama bin Bambi

  • The Black Witch
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 10167
  • Gender: Female
Re: Terminology: Sex, Gender and Gender Roles
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2012, 10:30:14 pm »
I believe that sex and gender both have a biological basis, and that one doesn't always have to match the other.

However, gender roles have no biological basis, contrary to what you might hear from some "evolutionary psychologists" who seem to think that our sub-Saharan ancestors lived in a society conspicuously similar to that of 1950s America. There's nothing that makes women instinctually attracted to shoes or the color pink.
Formerly known as Eva-Beatrice and Wykked Wytch.

Quote from: sandman
There are very few problems that cannot be solved with a good taint punching.

Offline Meshakhad

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2205
  • Gender: Male
  • The Night Is Dark And Full Of Terrors... Like Me
Re: Terminology: Sex, Gender and Gender Roles
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2012, 02:24:38 am »
I generally consider sex to be physical, and gender to be mental. And when I use the terms "male" and "female", I usually mean their sex, not their gender.

This is what bugs me about a certain breed of SJAs - they use "male" and "female" to refer to gender, so they can complain when people refer to issues exclusive to one sex as "male-only". An example would be an SJA saying that there are men who have to deal with menstruation (meaning pre-op FtM transgender people).
G-d's Kingdom Is A Hate-Free Zone

Quote from: Reploid Productions
Pardon the interruption, good sir/lady; there are aspects of your behavior that I find quite unbecoming, and I must insist most strenuously that I be permitted to assist in resolving these behaviors through the repeated high-velocity cranial introduction of particularly firm building materials.

Quote from: Meshakhad
GIVE ME KNOWLEDGE OR I WILL PUT A CAP IN YO ASS!

Offline Sylvana

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1016
  • Gender: Female
Re: Terminology: Sex, Gender and Gender Roles
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2012, 03:47:23 am »
I generally consider sex to be physical, and gender to be mental. And when I use the terms "male" and "female", I usually mean their sex, not their gender.

This is what bugs me about a certain breed of SJAs - they use "male" and "female" to refer to gender, so they can complain when people refer to issues exclusive to one sex as "male-only". An example would be an SJA saying that there are men who have to deal with menstruation (meaning pre-op FtM transgender people).

Given how the SJA crowd try to be over the top with regards to being politically correct their use(abuse) of the terms does not surprise me much. In general, male and female refer to ones gender. Hence any trans person will always referred to correctly and any non trans person does not care to begin with. However, this is more for general conversation, something SJA's manage to screw up on a regular basis.

More accurately Sex is the physical biological organs and attributes relating to reproduction.
We have primary and secondary sexual characteristics, where ones genitals are the primary sexual characteristics and the rest that you get during puberty are the secondary sexual characteristics. Sex as a term in general use normally refers only to the genitals of the person in question not the secondary sexual characteristics.
As a side note sex is also used as a distinction on a genetic level where the Y chromosome is considered male. However given how genetics can be messed up with multiple X's and Y's it is not a reliable indicator of biological sex.

Gender is entirely ones gender identity. It is used exclusively in this regard, but many confuse it with sex as in general society where trans-people are relatively rare they can be used interchangeably. This does have a biological basis in the brain as male and female brains are different structurally. (trans people generally have a brain structure closer to their preferred gender than their sex.) Gender is hence also static and innate given the biological link. This ties in with sexual orientation, but only in that both are decided statically in the brain.

Gender roles are entirely societal. There are some innate gender "roles" but these are more akin to reflexes that preserve the species and not the society. (these would be things like sexual partner selection, protecting ones young, etc. Nothing at all to do with generally accepted gender roles.)

The question would have to be, are these actually different things? Do the separate definitions actually mean anything? Am I safe in calling bullshit on people who claim their gender changes based on the room temperature, or will that piss people off too?

You are perfectly safe in calling bullshit on someone who claims their gender changes based on room temperature. Their perceived gender may change, but their brains do not. They probably have a gender ambiguous brain structure and switch between masculine and feminine habits (gender roles) depending on the situation, but their base gender remains the same, somewhere in the middle but probably leaning ever so slightly to one side or the other.

Offline erictheblue

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 679
Re: Terminology: Sex, Gender and Gender Roles
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2012, 06:49:18 pm »
An example would be an SJA saying that there are men who have to deal with menstruation (meaning pre-op FtM transgender people).

Or any heterosexual man (or bisexual man) with a pre-menopausal female partner. "Deal with" can mean a lot of things. I don't have periods, but I "deal with" my wife every month. I love her very much, but I know when to run and hide!  ;D
[Anonymous is] like... an internet Cthulu... you don't want to rouse them, but at the same time... woah think of the beautiful chaos! - SpaceProg

Offline Old Viking

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1454
  • Gender: Male
  • Occasionally peevish
Re: Terminology: Sex, Gender and Gender Roles
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2012, 05:00:57 pm »
You might be asked to pay for sex.  Gender, not so much.
I am an old man, and I've seen many problems, most of which never happened.

Offline erictheblue

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 679
Re: Terminology: Sex, Gender and Gender Roles
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2012, 06:51:13 am »
You might be asked to pay for sex.  Gender, not so much.

I pay for my gender. Hormones and eventually surgery.  :D
[Anonymous is] like... an internet Cthulu... you don't want to rouse them, but at the same time... woah think of the beautiful chaos! - SpaceProg

Offline NonProphet

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 55
  • Bowties are cool.
Re: Terminology: Sex, Gender and Gender Roles
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2012, 04:47:23 pm »
I can understand genderfluid people to a degree, but being offended that people can't follow your fluidity is dumb. I tend to have some amount of genderfluidity, but I generally stay towards the male end of the side so it's not a big deal.

Gender Roles tend to be full of shit.
As a genderfluid person myself, I generally don't bother myself with what pronouns or gender others associate with me. My partners both use masculine/feminine pronouns toward me interchangeably (or when I'm obviously displaying one "side" more than the other), but I don't care either way.

Most people online seem to think I'm female (with the exception of you lovely FSTDTers), and I'm okay with that. My friends generally refer to me by my biological sex, and I'm fine with that, too.
Anyone who gets all huffy because others can't READ THEIR MIND and pick up their fluid shifts are either just trying to get attention, or need to grow up.

As for gender roles: yes, they do tend to be bullshit. I never cared much for them.