Church and State

[Scotsgit]

Quick question:  Is there something in the US Constitution that seperates Church from State?  Also, are the Founding Fathers known for praying for divine guidance?

[Scotsgit]

So when people in the US bang on about how everything should begin with public prayers, they're going against the constitution?

[Scotsgit]

OK, ta.  Someone on Facebook is going on about how is it they can pray for Whitney Houston but not at the beginning of public events such as Congress, Municipal Councils, etc.

[m52nickerson]

We can because we as individuals can pray and worship as we see fit.  People can even pray on their own before such things as government board meeting.  The separation is such that someone acting on behalf of the government can not lead a pray.

You might find President Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptist Association interesting.  This is where we get the expression "separation of church and state".

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Letter_to_the_Danbury_Baptists_-_January_1,_1802

[m52nickerson]

The separation is such that someone acting on behalf of the government can lead a pray.

I cannot tell if that is a typo there or not. Forgive me, but I'm just checking.

I was going to say that I should have clarified. There is a difference between personal praying before something like this, and someone trying to make a forced attendance prayer right before a hearing where everyone involved must be present.

If I'm remembering correctly, of course. Could be completely wrong.

Also, thank you for linking to the Danbury letter. I should have remembered to do so myself.

Yes, I forgot the "not", thanks for catching that!  I fixed it.

Your welcome for the link.

[Scotsgit]

So what people are supposed to do is, if they want to pray, do so in private, but not have the assembly stop or begin with prayers?

[Star Cluster]

So what people are supposed to do is, if they want to pray, do so in private, but not have the assembly stop or begin with prayers?

Actually, assemblies can be started with open prayers, but they must be general in nature and cannot be to a specific deity.  Something in the nature of, "We pray for guidance from the divine in these proceedings. Amen" is acceptable.  However, adding "These things we pray in the name of Jesus Christ, our lord and savior" or "Allah is great" or something similar is not.   It's not that prayers are outright banned before or after the session, it's that Christians aren't allowed to invoke Jesus in the prayer that has them so up in arms.  They claim it is a violation of their constitutional rights to forbid them from that when it has been ruled time and time again that it is not.

The city council of the city next to my hometown is going through this right now.  One councilman is showing his ass and vows to continue fighting for the ability to pray to Jesus although he has been struck down at every step of the way.  In fact, the US Supreme Court just recently refused to hear the case, meaning that he has lost and cannot pray in this manner.  How he thinks he is going to fight beyond this is anybody's guess.