Author Topic: Stupid people, or why MLK is still misunderstood  (Read 10177 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lt. Fred

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2994
  • Gender: Male
  • I see what you were trying to do there
Stupid people, or why MLK is still misunderstood
« on: June 08, 2012, 10:49:46 pm »
*Ban Affirmative Action, as it is a violation of the Civil Rights Act

Saw this on another thread, noted the obvious bullshit nature.

Obviously Affirmative Action is not a violation of the Civil Rights Act (as with all conservative propaganda, the claim that affirmative action is racist is false). Why do people believe this? Affirmative action requires society to act in a non-racist fashion- to hire qualified black (or Asian) applicants even if the racist employer would prefer to hire unqualified white employees. How is this racist? What is your alternative anti-racist policy?
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

The party's name is the Democratic Party. It has been since 1830. Please spell correctly.

"The party must go wholly one way or wholly the other. It cannot face in both directions at the same time."
-FDR

Offline Cataclysm

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2458
Re: Stupid people, or why MLK is still misunderstood
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2012, 11:05:03 pm »
Have law groups monitor employees.
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

Quote
Commenter Brendan Rizzo is an American (still living there) who really, really hates America. He used to make posts defending his country from anti-American attacks but got fed up with it all.

Offline Lt. Fred

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2994
  • Gender: Male
  • I see what you were trying to do there
Re: Stupid people, or why MLK is still misunderstood
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2012, 11:05:42 pm »
You going to monitor their brainwaves?
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

The party's name is the Democratic Party. It has been since 1830. Please spell correctly.

"The party must go wholly one way or wholly the other. It cannot face in both directions at the same time."
-FDR

Offline Cataclysm

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2458
Re: Stupid people, or why MLK is still misunderstood
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2012, 11:08:08 pm »
Who they hire/promote and why over a period of time.
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

Quote
Commenter Brendan Rizzo is an American (still living there) who really, really hates America. He used to make posts defending his country from anti-American attacks but got fed up with it all.

Offline gyeonghwa

  • Uppity and Proud of It
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2041
  • Gender: Male
  • That angry queer your tone trolls warned you about
    • Queer & Khmer
Re: Stupid people, or why MLK is still misunderstood
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2012, 11:16:02 pm »
Affirmative action is simply needed because America's pervasive racism does not give people equal grounds to achieve the same thing. There are already examples where getting ride of affirmative action just makes an institution/organization more white. Besides, the biggest benefactor of Affirmative action is white women, anyways.
That may be the single gayest thing I have ever read on this board. Or the old one. ;)

Offline Art Vandelay

  • Greatest Person to Ever Grace this Shitty Forum
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 9142
  • Gender: Male
  • Check Your Privilege
Re: Stupid people, or why MLK is still misunderstood
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2012, 11:21:06 pm »
It's like this. Imagine there are two candidates for a nondescript job. One has a $300 000 mortgage, a spouse and two kids to support and very rapidly dwindling savings. The other has no kids, no mortgage and is able to fall back on their significant other's income. Now, with that in mind and assuming both are equally qualified, which one do you think (from a purely ethical standpoint) should get the job? Would you change your mind if either one or the other were white and the other a minority?

Offline Cataclysm

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2458
Re: Stupid people, or why MLK is still misunderstood
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2012, 11:26:02 pm »
Affirmative action is simply needed because America's pervasive racism does not give people equal grounds to achieve the same thing. There are already examples where getting ride of affirmative action just makes an institution/organization more white. Besides, the biggest benefactor of Affirmative action is white women, anyways.

Ha, and they say feminism isn't a bourgeoisie ideology! Snark.

It's like this. Imagine there are two candidates for a nondescript job. One has a $300 000 mortgage, a spouse and two kids to support and very rapidly dwindling savings. The other has no kids, no mortgage and is able to fall back on their significant other's income. Now, with that in mind and assuming both are equally qualified, which one do you think (from a purely ethical standpoint) should get the job? Would you change your mind if either one or the other were white and the other a minority?

Don't most job applications ask for background information about your life about the experiences you had?
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

Quote
Commenter Brendan Rizzo is an American (still living there) who really, really hates America. He used to make posts defending his country from anti-American attacks but got fed up with it all.

Offline Art Vandelay

  • Greatest Person to Ever Grace this Shitty Forum
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 9142
  • Gender: Male
  • Check Your Privilege
Re: Stupid people, or why MLK is still misunderstood
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2012, 11:37:52 pm »
Don't most job applications ask for background information about your life about the experiences you had?
I'm not sure, though I'm just trying to illustrate why affirmative action is at best overly simplistic and extremely misguided.

Offline Osama bin Bambi

  • The Black Witch
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 10167
  • Gender: Female
Re: Stupid people, or why MLK is still misunderstood
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2012, 11:40:00 pm »
Why don't colleges and the like just... eliminate the race section completely when they look over submissions for applicants? Then race isn't even a factor and they can judge work and achievements on their individual merit.
Formerly known as Eva-Beatrice and Wykked Wytch.

Quote from: sandman
There are very few problems that cannot be solved with a good taint punching.

Offline Cerim Treascair

  • My Love Is Lunar
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3093
  • Gender: Male
  • Get me my arbalest... explosive bolts, please.
Re: Stupid people, or why MLK is still misunderstood
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2012, 11:42:58 pm »
Because all parents are entitled fuckers when it comes to their special snowflakes.  And I say this as a teacher's kid.
There is light and darkness in the world, to be sure.  However, there's no harm to be had in walking in the shade or shadows.

Formerly Priestling

"I don't give a fuck about race...I'm white, I'm American, but that shit don't matter.  I'm human."

Offline Lt. Fred

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2994
  • Gender: Male
  • I see what you were trying to do there
Re: Stupid people, or why MLK is still misunderstood
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2012, 12:56:05 am »
Who they hire/promote and why over a period of time.

So your alternative to affirmative action is affirmative action.

Why don't colleges and the like just... eliminate the race section completely when they look over submissions for applicants? Then race isn't even a factor and they can judge work and achievements on their individual merit.

That's the ultimate objective of affirmative action- remove being white as a category for people seeking employment, particularly well-paid employment. A black person should have the same chance of being employed as an equally-qualified white person.

Unfortunately, if there's one non-stupid criticism you can make of modern affirmative action, it's that it doesn't go far enough. If equally-qualified black people are employed at the same rate as white people, black people will still be disproportionately getting screwed, due to slavery/Jim Crow/Reagan et al. So how do you solve that? Well, as MLK said, white people did something special to black people, now they have to do something special FOR them, to make up for it. Black people have to be allowed into colleges at the proportion they exist in population, even if that might mean less-qualified black people get in- at least, that's what the Civil Rights Movement thought.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2012, 01:20:47 am by Lt. Fred »
Ultimate Paragon admits to fabricating a hit piece on Politico.

http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=6936.0

The party's name is the Democratic Party. It has been since 1830. Please spell correctly.

"The party must go wholly one way or wholly the other. It cannot face in both directions at the same time."
-FDR

Offline Art Vandelay

  • Greatest Person to Ever Grace this Shitty Forum
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 9142
  • Gender: Male
  • Check Your Privilege
Re: Stupid people, or why MLK is still misunderstood
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2012, 01:20:20 am »
It's like this. Imagine there are two candidates for a nondescript job. One has a $300 000 mortgage, a spouse and two kids to support and very rapidly dwindling savings. The other has no kids, no mortgage and is able to fall back on their significant other's income. Now, with that in mind and assuming both are equally qualified, which one do you think (from a purely ethical standpoint) should get the job? Would you change your mind if either one or the other were white and the other a minority?
I'd just like to remind you that you're kind of required to respond to this, Freddy. Rules state you must at the very least acknowledge direct questions.

Offline Cataclysm

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2458
Re: Stupid people, or why MLK is still misunderstood
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2012, 04:19:54 pm »
Quote
even if that might mean less-qualified black people get in- at least, that's what the Civil Rights Movement thought.

Which is an absolutely horrible idea. You can't use racism to solve racism. Plus it is unfair to the minorities who are qualified, because it may make other people think that they aren't qualified, and also think discrimination for them infantalises them.

In a meritocracy, nobody deserves special rights, and the people who are good enough to get in should get it.

Who they hire/promote and why over a period of time.

So your alternative to affirmative action is affirmative action.


No, AA is when the company hires/promotes people due to a lack of them, or hires a percent of people of a race based on the percent that applied (or more stupidly, the the percent that is in the population.) This plan is proving that the employers are racist.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2012, 05:36:34 pm by Lexikon »
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

Quote
Commenter Brendan Rizzo is an American (still living there) who really, really hates America. He used to make posts defending his country from anti-American attacks but got fed up with it all.

Offline Art Vandelay

  • Greatest Person to Ever Grace this Shitty Forum
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 9142
  • Gender: Male
  • Check Your Privilege
Re: Stupid people, or why MLK is still misunderstood
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2012, 05:29:23 pm »
So how do you solve that? Well, as MLK said, white people did something special to black people, now they have to do something special FOR them, to make up for it.
Umm. No. No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no.

For a supposed non-racist, you seem to have trouble grasping the fact that people aren't part of some sort of racial collective hive mind. Race is nothing more than a collection of superficial physical characteristics. You do know that you are essentially saying that anyone who is white is somehow responsible for slavery and the oppression of an entire race, regardless of whether or not they were even born when most of it happened, much less have the means or desire to do it, right? Sure, it's one thing to say that the well-off should try to give a hand-up to those who are worse off, but to judge whether nor not any given person is worthy of such a hand-up purely on their race is extremely misguided and poorly-thought out at its very best.

Furthermore.
It's like this. Imagine there are two candidates for a nondescript job. One has a $300 000 mortgage, a spouse and two kids to support and very rapidly dwindling savings. The other has no kids, no mortgage and is able to fall back on their significant other's income. Now, with that in mind and assuming both are equally qualified, which one do you think (from a purely ethical standpoint) should get the job? Would you change your mind if either one or the other were white and the other a minority?
I'd just like to remind you that you're kind of required to respond to this, Freddy. Rules state you must at the very least acknowledge direct questions.
I know you've been online since I've posted this and I know you've been reading this thread, seeing as you've been editing your posts quite recently. I'm not going to ask you again, either answer the questions or I'm reporting you to the mods.

Offline Osama bin Bambi

  • The Black Witch
  • Kakarot
  • ******
  • Posts: 10167
  • Gender: Female
Re: Stupid people, or why MLK is still misunderstood
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2012, 06:14:51 pm »
I think basing Affirmative Action on actual financial need and not race would be fairer. I'm not opposed to private companies and universities who choose to put an Affirmative Action policy into place (heck, the ones that do this might get more minority applicants), but the government has no place in forcing that ideology upon other institutions or itself. Yes, it's an ideology, even if it's a true one.

Yes, white people fucked over basically every minority in US history. No, that doesn't mean their descendants have to be looked over for a position they are qualified for just because someone else who is equally qualified happens to be a minority. If it really gets down to the point where you have to pick between a white applicant and a black applicant, and both are equally qualified, and you want to be fair, flip a damn coin.
Formerly known as Eva-Beatrice and Wykked Wytch.

Quote from: sandman
There are very few problems that cannot be solved with a good taint punching.