Author Topic: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington  (Read 417837 times)

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Offline ironbite

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1275 on: June 15, 2017, 09:07:21 am »
Or he's tired of seeing his approval ratings in the 30s and never climbing out of there and wants to change that.

Ironbite-this is the same man who thought firing the FBI director would stop an investigation and look where we're at now

Offline Askold

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1276 on: June 15, 2017, 09:28:33 am »
He needs to show that he is better than Obama, this means wrecking or at least appearing to wreck Obamacare.

Afterwards he can say that he saved the country with Trumpcare/AHCA/ACA even if it is nothing but "literally just Obamacare except this time have the name Trump somehow attached to it."
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Id82

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1277 on: June 15, 2017, 09:59:02 am »
Yeah except trumpcare will leave 24 million without health care.
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Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1278 on: June 15, 2017, 10:01:24 am »
Yeah. For the Republicans the main goal is to get rid of the taxes that fund the ACA so their proposal will not include the resources to provide actual insurance for people. If Trump was ignorant enough to think that the Republican proposal would be at least somewhat comparable to ACA and in a moment of clarity realized there is no way he can polish the turd the Republicans are producing it explains his dismay.

Edit: By chance, I just encountered this article. It seems there is an argument among the Republicans how much of the taxes they should cut. The Republicans who want the government to be an at least somewhat functional institution are not as eager to cut them all as are the ones for whom government is the source of all evil.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-healthcare-taxes-idUSKBN19619M?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=Social
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 10:09:59 am by SCarpelan »

Offline The_Queen

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1279 on: June 15, 2017, 06:20:49 pm »
Because he is a fucking moron who thinks he can one-up Obama by destroying "Obamacare" and replacing it with "Trumpcare". I don't know what is bothering him in the Republican plan and the AP's sources didn't specify it either. It's possible that he genuinely thought that the Republican plan would be more popular than ACA and it's so bad that its horribleness got through his thick skull and limited understanding when it was described to him.

My take is this: Trump is not smart. He lacks empathy, self-awareness, attention to detail, and work ethic. That makes for a clusterfuck of a perfect storm in which Trump really doesn't care about what is passed, as long as he can tell his base that it is "great" and that he did it. His call for making the bill "less mean" is only to dull criticism directed at the bill for leaving an estimated 23 million people without health insurance, and not for any empathy for the 23 million people.
Does anyone take Donald Trump seriously, anymore?

Offline Id82

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1280 on: June 15, 2017, 07:22:55 pm »
It makes you wonder how he functioned as a CEO of a corporation. I'm willing to bet his corporation was run as chaotic as his white house is.
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Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1281 on: June 15, 2017, 07:32:03 pm »
I don't think empathy has ever been or will ever be the main motivator for him but I don't think he is incapable of feeling it either. He probably does feel good if he does something that he thinks helps people but in these cases the main motivator is still his own or his family's material well-being and occasionally his own need for being popular. When the sense of empathy is in conflict with his own interests, it is something that is easy for him to suppress.

If Trump thought he could sell the bill to his supporters as a success he would undoubtedly stand behind it. I just think it might finally have dawned on him how bad the bill is when he was told what actually is in it and he realizes he is risking losing many of his fans whose adoration is a big motivation for him - that's why the rallies even after the election victory.

Offline Id82

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1282 on: June 16, 2017, 10:56:41 am »
So trump went on tv today to cry that he is under investigation and blamed the attorney general for telling him to fire Comey. But I thought you were going to fire Comey no matter if it was recommended or not Donnie? It's everyone's fault but yours I suppose.
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Offline ironbite

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1283 on: June 16, 2017, 11:36:18 am »
And he's blaming the Deputy AG on this.

Ironbite-I'm not sure he understands what his position in the country is now.

Offline Askold

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1284 on: June 16, 2017, 11:44:56 am »
Meanwhile inside Trump's head:

Quote
I hope you understand that the knowledge I bring,
Puts me in the position of a god or a king,
'Cause I'm blessed with the gift of the magic touch,
And I wouldn't say that I'm asking for too much.
All you have to do is get down on your knees and pray,
And I promise you the remedy is on its way,
But you can never be like me so don't waste your time,
Because I reign supreme and my position is divine.

What's wrong with being self-possessed?
Nobody satisfied with being second best.
I've got the gift and I know that I'm blessed,
And I've got to get it off my chest.
I'm the biggest,
The best,
Better than the rest,
Better than the rest.

EDIT: A friendly reminder... Now that Trump is talking about a metaphorical witch hunt that he is a victim of keep in mind that his followers went on a literal witch hunt during the campaign: https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2016/nov/04/marina-abramovic-podesta-clinton-emails-satanism-accusations
« Last Edit: June 16, 2017, 12:35:08 pm by Askold »
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline The_Queen

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1285 on: June 16, 2017, 07:11:22 pm »
And he's blaming the Deputy AG on this.

Ironbite-I'm not sure he understands what his position in the country is now.

"The buck stops with that other guy."
Does anyone take Donald Trump seriously, anymore?

Offline Askold

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1286 on: June 18, 2017, 03:07:58 am »
People are resigning from the government run group that was established to fight HIV/AIDS.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/trump-hiv-aids-pacha-resignations?utm_term=.tpVJemoMg#.pwEV031Kj

This may have something to do with VP Mike "Ride the lightning" Pence who is known for his homophobia and has previously campaigned with the promise to use government funding meant to combat HIV for "Gay conversion therapy."

http://www.businessinsider.com/mike-pences-most-controversial-stances-on-gay-rights-abortion-and-smoking-2016-11?r=US&IR=T&IR=T
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1287 on: June 18, 2017, 05:45:01 am »
Well, we know that it's only those damn fags who get AIDS, so if we can just get them all back on God's intended path, there'll be no more AIDS!
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

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Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1288 on: June 19, 2017, 10:53:08 pm »
http://www.businessinsider.com/democrats-ahca-health-care-senate-2017-6

Looks like Senate Dems are pulling out all the stops to get the Senate Republicans to bring their version of health-care reform into the light of day, and do things that you'd normally do with bills, like hold committee hearings and have debates on the Senate floor.

They're going to refuse unanimous consent to any motion that requires it and insist on roll call votes whenever they can--basically grinding the Senate to a screeching halt.

Right now, if I'm Trump, what I do is nominate a FEMA director, because there was just a horrific forest fire in Portugal and we need someone in charge at FEMA so that we can respond properly if that happens here! Then dare the Dems to block that nomination. (If the FEMA director requires Senate confirmation. I don't know if it does. Also, FEMA's probably better off now with a bunch of professionals at the highest non-political tier overseeing things than it would be with anybody Trump might appoint, but if I were in Trump's position, that would be my tactic.)
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline The_Queen

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1289 on: June 21, 2017, 09:15:52 pm »
Continued from another thread

Seriously all these special elections have been in safe Republican strongholds.  It's disappointing that we lost but to come so close?  Dude that's amazing.

Ironbite-+20 districts almost falling does not bold good fortunes for the +6 districts they'll have to defend come 2018.

I point you to the recent special election for New York's State Assembly, where a district that went +23 for Trump and +37 for the Republican candidate in 2016 went to a Sanders delegate in said special election by 16. These districts could have been flipped.

(And note that New York Republicans these days are not the John Lindsay/Jacob Javits/Nelson Rockefeller-style Republicans of decades past; they are firmly Trump/Tea Party-brand Republicans.)

I'm about to drop some knowledge on this thread. Ossoff could have won GA-6, but not by being more BernieBro. The reason for this is multifaceted, and well, speculative (we are discussing counterfactuals, after all).

Let's break down why so much attention was put on Georgia-6. To understand what happened, one must understand a brief history. Georgia-6 was heavily gerrymandered following the 2010 Mid-Term election. The district was drawn to include a lot of white people with college degrees (56% of people in the district have a college degree). However, white people with a college degree are, on average, less conservative than white people without a college degree, so you need more of them to get the same reliably Republican district. Because of this, the district was drawn so as to include fewer racial minorities (13.4% black and 13.4% Hispanic).

Now, the reason people focused on GA-6 was because it was relatively favorable to Clinton for a Republican district. While the national popular vote was +2% for Clinton, GA-6 was only -6. So, by this measure, you could say that GA-6 was 8 percentage points more Republican than the nation as a whole. However, we all know that Trump lost white educated voters vis-a-vis Romney. While Hillary lost GA-6 by only 6% points, Tom Price (R) won the district by 23.5%, indicating that while the district had soured on Trump, generic Congressional Republicans still held considerable clout. Typically, when evaluating the sway of a district, pollsters rely on presidential results due to the fact that (1) the president is the only office which is nationally elected and (2) the president is a singular person, as opposed to 435 representatives who may be good candidates or terrible candidates.* While typically accurate, this district is a bit of an anomaly because while reliably republican, it really wasn't too keen on Trump due to its demographics. If one were to only look at the districts, the GOP won SC-5 by 20.5 (incumbent) and GA-6 by 23.5 (also incumbent). Incumbency typically adds about 3 percent, so reduce that to 17.5 and 20.5. Thus, both of yesterdays races continued the 15% democratic swing that we've seen in Congressional special elections this year.

Which brings me to how Ossoff could have won. Realistically, it would be very difficult no matter what he did being in such a red district. Nevertheless, based on opinion polling and the area, his best bet would probably be to tie Handel to Trump (remember, the district doesn't like him) and Trumpcare (22% favorability nationwide, as well as a bungled mess of incompetence). He would also benefit from a reduced turnout as that would leave dissatisfied and indifferent Republicans at home, while bringing out fired up democrats angry with Trump.** Essentially, the district has more Republicans than Democrats, so if more people vote, odds are that more of those people are Republicans. If Ossoff were more of a BernieBro, it would bring out the democratic base, but likely at the expense of Republican voters' indifference (which he needs to keep them at home). Additionally, GA-6 isn't swayed by populism: Trump's right-wing populism didn't convince the district, nor did Bernie's left-wing populism as it went to Hillary by 60-40%. A moderate democrat that is competent (in contrast to Trump) and flies under the radar was the best bet Democrats had, and Ossoff goofed by raising and spending so much money, which caused the GOP and Republican PACs to spend money, and all the attention fired up Republican voters and brought them out.

Which brings me to my conclusion:

So that bitch Handel won - repulsive Republican idiot running a little haven for inbreds and morons.

I'd rant about this, but it would just lead to another flaming contest between Queen and myself.


I don't pick on you cause Bernie. I pick on you because you obviously have pre-determined narratives that you push forward without critical thought, conveniently ignoring anomalies to your hypothesis. Very often, your position is "Bernie good, moderate dems bad, more Bernie-style dems would always win." I don't dispute that Bernie-style dems can win many districts, such as Wisconsin-1 (90% white, 25% of people with a college degree, voted for Bernie over Hillary by 55-45, and considerably less Republican than GA-6 or SC-5). I pick on you because very often your pre-determined narrative does not hold up to scrutiny (ex. New York's 9th State District below) or are unnecessarily vitriolic to non-Bernie-style-dems ("where no chairs were thrown"). By all means, be political. But when your pre-determined narrative is obvious, I cringe, roll my eyes, and make light of it.

*While Trump was a bad candidate, in the sense that he had no morals and enough scandals to keep Oliver Pope busy until retirement, he isn't the kind of "bad candidate" that is meant. Typically, a "bad candidate" refers to the vote share, and while Trump lost some groups (college educated whites and women), he gained others (uneducated whites and men). "Bad candidates" typically refer to vote share, and while Trump lost some groups vis-a-vis Romney (such as whites with a college degree), he made considerable gains among other groups (such as whites without a college degree).
**Reduced turnout also helped the democrats in the NY state race you mentioned. NY-9 (state) and GA-6 turned out 60,000 and 326,000 people in November 2016, respectively, while their special elections had 4,000 (6.66%) and 260,000 (80%) people, respectively. Demographically, the two are similar, with GA-6 being slightly more educated. Nevertheless, the difference maker for NY-9 was that demoralized and indifferent republicans stayed home, while fired up democrats voted.
Does anyone take Donald Trump seriously, anymore?