Repercussion of no illegal immigrants

[CaseAgainstFaith]

ONEONTA, Alabama -- Some Alabama farmers say they are planting less produce rather than risk having tomatoes and other crops rot in the fields a second straight year because of labor shortages linked to the state's crackdown on illegal immigration.

Keith Dickie said he and other growers in the heart of Alabama's tomato country didn't have any choice but to reduce acreage amid fears there won't be enough workers to pick the delicate fruit.

Some farmers lacked enough hands to harvest crops because immigrants fled the state after Gov. Robert Bentley signed the immigration law last fall, and some told The Associated Press they fear the same thing could happen this year.

"There's too much uncertainty," said Dickie, who farms with his brother on a ridge called Straight Mountain, about 40 miles northeast of Birmingham.

On nearby Chandler Mountain, another prime farming area, Jimmy Miller said he cut back on produce because of possible labor shortages and instead planted more cotton and peanuts, which can both be harvested by big machines called combines that require minimal labor.

http://blog.al.com/wire/2012/05/some_alabama_farmers_cut_back.html

So much for the whole argument of them taking our jobs right?  I understand both sides of the coin can be scrutinized, on the one side we had cheap almost slave labor but that in turn meant cheaper food prices.  Now on the other side of the coin you have no one wanting to work those jobs and farmers cut back which means higher food prices and maybe at some point a food shortage if the farmers keep cutting back.  Yay damned if you do, damned if you don't type scenarios.

[MadCatTLX]

There are a lot of people who could do it, it's just most people don't want to spend all day in the sun, bent over, picking fruit. I personally wouldn't want to either, and couldn't because I can't handle heat, allergies, and other problems you encounter when outside in the summer.

[Her3tiK]

Damn. If it weren't for the fact it's in Okla-fucking-homa, I'd do it. Fresh air, exercise, pay, providing the foundation of society. Sounds like a good job to me.

[Fpqxz]

If the USA reformed its immigration laws to include an actually functional guest worker program, most of this problem would go away.  We did have one, at one time.

Think about it.  Temporary farm workers would come in via permit from Mexico, Guatemala, and other countries.  They work legally, the government would know they are here, and unscrupulous farmers and factory owners wouldn't be able to pay them sub-minimum wage or force them to work in unlawfully dangerous conditions.  They wouldn't be afraid of deportation because they would be here legally, doing the jobs they came here to do, and would have access to legal recourse for violations of their rights.  When the work is finished, the workers return to their home countries with the money they've made, where the U.S. dollar will go further, and (hopefully) invest in their home countries' economies.

We get the labor we need (which is unavailable here), and the workers get the fair treatment they deserve.  Two birds with one stone.

Add this to the ever-expanding list of "things the U.S. Government should be doing, but isn't".

[Her3tiK]

The labor is plenty available here; Americans just like to pretend they're above that kind of work.

[Osama bin Bambi]

The labor is plenty available here; Americans just like to pretend they're above that kind of work.

Most Americans won't work those long hours for the wages offered to immigrants. The reason companies hire immigrants over native workers in the first place is because the immigrant workers will work longer hours for fewer wages (and the illegal immigrants are easier to cheat out of wages, because they cannot go to any authority without the risk of being deported).

There was some brilliant Onion news video about this (back before the Onion started to suck balls), which I should find but I won't right now because I'm lazy.

[largeham]

One thing I'm worried about is that the labour movement will start following the bullshit about "Mexicans are taking our jobs". Immigrants are always scapegoatsamong the right, but leftists aren't above that sort of bullshit either.

[Art Vandelay]

A better solution would be to raise wagers for temporary farm worker nation wide. That way, you're not dependent on illegals to harvest crops. If need be, farm subsidies can be raised to keep food prices down or a proper guest worker program for times when unemployment is too low.

There's really just no excuse for relying on illegals.

[Lt. Fred]

Basically, Americans have got artificially cheap food, and farmers artificially high profits, on the backs of bankrupt Mexican farmers forced by the inability to compete in their own country to jump the border and work for nothing in the US. A bit of Grapes of Wrath, actually.

The reason that there were farming jobs 'Americans didn't want to do' was that the wage was so bad. Because immigrants would do it.

[Fpqxz]

One thing I'm worried about is that the labour movement will start following the bullshit about "Mexicans are taking our jobs". Immigrants are always scapegoatsamong the right, but leftists aren't above that sort of bullshit either.

Well, the problem is that undocumented immigrants who work under the table can (and often do) drive down wages for unskilled and semi-skilled labor.  It has already happened in the construction and domestic services industries.  The only reason it hasn't happened in the agricultural sector--yet--is because relatively few American citizens work in that field.  Basic supply and demand.

A guest worker program would not eliminate the problem of and expanding labor supply, but it would mitigate it somewhat, by compelling U.S.-based employers to pay immigrant laborers rates comparable to what native workers would be paid.  Or at the very least, prevent them from paying sub-minimum wages and undercutting American workers in the labor market.

[largeham]

I agree they do, but I don't believe immigrants should be barred for that. They should be accepted and their rights should be fought for as well.

[Osama bin Bambi]

farm subsidies can be raised

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31g0YE61PLQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31g0YE61PLQ</a>

There's a much simpler solution to this that doesn't require giving public money to private companies. If equal pay for equal work was more strictly enforced while illegal immigration received lesser penalties (or none at all), then there would be no incentive for farms to hire illegal immigrants in the first place.

Seriously, what is a "border"? Why is it that one step can completely change your legal status from "ordinary citizen" to "criminal scum"? So... yeah. The whole idea of there being strictly-defied borders that determine a person's rights makes no sense to me.

I remember a discussion on illegal immigration I had in junior high. Their sentiment basically boiled down to "I've got mine, screw yours" (*coughAmericanIndianscough*) and "They're still breaking the law" (Oh, so it's wrong because the law says so?) and "Criminals don't deserve rights" (Which is obviously why liberal claptrap like Miranda rights, search and seizure laws, right to privacy, etc. don't exist). They went on to laugh at an example of an illegal immigrant who could not afford health insurance ("Serves him right for being a criminal"). The kicker? Everyone in the room was an immigrant or a descendant of an immigrant.

[Fpqxz]

^^So, your solution is for every country to let everyone come and go as they please, with no regard for the economies or national security of each country.

*slow clap* ...wow, that's fucking brilliant.  I wonder why nobody is doing this now?

Seriously, I cringe a little bit whenever I hear a self-styled "liberal" and "progressive" who spout this open-border nonsense without thinking of the consequences.

[Stormwarden]

^^^^ Niiiiiccceeee...straight from the Ayn Rand playbook. But I've played enough Bioshock to know that it won't fly. You mean we have any regard for the economies of other nations and the national security of others NOW?

Wanna solve the problem? Then we need to overhaul how we handle immigration, because the way we're doing it now ain't working. Of course, if YOU don't mind tilling the soil, then by all means give it a shot, as I intend to do as soon as I can straighten out a few things on my end.  But realistically, the reason we're having this problem is because, let's face it, most Americans aren't willing to put in the work in the fields.

Welcome to the realities of a top-heavy society friends. Hope that it doesn't collapse under it's own weight.

[Fpqxz]

^^^^ Niiiiiccceeee...straight from the Ayn Rand playbook. But I've played enough Bioshock to know that it won't fly. You mean we have any regard for the economies of other nations and the national security of others NOW?

WTF are you talking about?  It's the libertarians who are constantly arguing for open borders and free trade.  Allowing in massive waves of immigration all at once would be a tremendous shock to the labor market, and would almost certainly depress wages economy-wide, not to mention putting a tremendous strain on public services, increasing traffic and overcrowding, and probably increasing crime and risk of terrorist attack.  Are you really going to tell me that this is a "progressive", "left-wing" policy?  Are you really going to tell me that this benefits the proletariat?

As for the USA's respect for other economies and security of other countries...yeah, we've really dropped the ball on that, but that is really a separate debate.

What any of this has to do with Ayn Rand (whom I despise), I don't really know.

Wanna solve the problem? Then we need to overhaul how we handle immigration, because the way we're doing it now ain't working. Of course, if YOU don't mind tilling the soil, then by all means give it a shot, as I intend to do as soon as I can straighten out a few things on my end.  But realistically, the reason we're having this problem is because, let's face it, most Americans aren't willing to put in the work in the fields.

That's what I was arguing for in my earlier posts, dipshit.

Now I'm convinced you people don't read what I write.  Seriously, you people need to spend more time reading and less time playing the vidya games and fapping to hentai.