Author Topic: The "N" Word  (Read 9290 times)

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Offline rookie

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Re: The "N" Word
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2012, 09:01:54 am »
I don't use the word and immediately loose all respect for anyone using it outside of reading aloud a Mark Twain novel. Nigga, I don't use for personal reasons. Same with referring to a random woman as bitch. I had the privilege when I was young to have (retired?) civil rights activists in my neighborhood. So at a very young age I got a perspective that stuck with me, and a level of respect for people as people. And my nature as it is, I'm not going to stop anyone from saying what they want to say. But I'm not going to hang around and listen.
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Offline Old Viking

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Re: The "N" Word
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2012, 10:10:53 pm »
@ Smurfette Principle: Me, too.  I'm six years old, so this would be 1938.  I'm sitting in a parked car with my mother on a street in downtown Buffalo.  My dad has dashed into a store for whatever.  I had never seen a black person, and a group walks by.  Excited as hell, I shout, "Mother, look at the niggers."  It was simply a word I'd heard applied to blacks, and I was absolutely unaware of any connotations.  My mother -- this little, bitty, 5' 2", 105-pound woman -- whirls on me and says, "They're not niggers!  That's a bad word, and it hurts their feelings.  They are people just like you and me, and I don't ever want to hear you say that again."  Scared the doo-doo out of me.  Seventy four years later, and I still don't use the word.  I can honestly say that growing up I never heard a prejudiced word from my parents against anyone's color, or ethnic background, or political convictions, or religious beliefs.  I think my mother and father were unusual not only for that time in this country's history, but for any time in any country's history.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 10:13:10 pm by Old Viking »
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Offline Whore of Spamylon

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Re: The "N" Word
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2012, 02:23:10 am »
I think Tim Wise does a good job of dealing with it:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MnmmDiQSdA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MnmmDiQSdA</a>

Wow, another "anti-racist" activist who is racist.

And his way of addressing the double standard without actually addressing it is quite the non-sequitur.

Edit:  I went to the youtube page.  Both comments and ratings are disabled.

Go figure.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 02:28:17 am by Whore of Spamylon »


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Offline The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist

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Re: The "N" Word
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2012, 05:31:55 am »
I... actually think most of that speech was pretty reasonable. I disagree with him about never vocalizing the word in any context (quoting from text or referencing it in discussions about racism are acceptable), but I think he makes a perfectly good point about connotations, and how they change depending on the speaker.
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Offline Whore of Spamylon

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Re: The "N" Word
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2012, 06:51:14 am »
I... actually think most of that speech was pretty reasonable. I disagree with him about never vocalizing the word in any context (quoting from text or referencing it in discussions about racism are acceptable), but I think he makes a perfectly good point about connotations, and how they change depending on the speaker.

Granted, I was turned off by the first half of the video and ignored the second half.  Having viewed the second half, I will give him some points for consistency in his application of double standards, despite how ironic that in and of itself sounds.

However, I do regard any double standard in matters of race/ethnicity to be inherently bigoted, no matter what the standard is.  For instance, he says that he would take exception to a Jewish individual using the word redneck or telling redneck jokes, but would not apply that standard to someone like Jeff Foxworthy.  To me, that double standard is just as bigoted as the one involving the word nigger, as one standard is being applied to Jewish individuals and another is being applied to impoverish/working class rural whites, and the fact that the latter is being granted a special privilege in this situation doesn't change anything, and just because Tim Wise demonstrated such a situation where he thinks the latter should be given such a special privilege doesn't make him any less bigoted.

Now in regards to the ethics of using racist/bigoted slurs, and "connotations, and how they change depending on the speaker," yes, it is safe to assume that one is not using a slur in malice when they are a part of a demographic that said slur is directed towards, but (and this isn't directed against your argument) that doesn't mean there is inherent malice when one uses a slur and they are NOT a part of the demographic the word is directed towards.  Such a situation where malice is probably not implied is when a slur is used in discussion where the slur itself is the topic at hand.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 07:08:37 am by Whore of Spamylon »


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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: The "N" Word
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2012, 07:10:23 pm »
It's a historically dangerous word that should never be employed in its original meaning. The word is the linguistic equivalent of a segregated bathroom.

Now, how you square that with the Wire's use of the word is a vexed question.
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Offline ironbite

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Re: The "N" Word
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2012, 08:42:39 pm »
It's a corruption of the spanish word for black.

Offline Smurfette Principle

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Re: The "N" Word
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2012, 09:39:24 pm »
Personally I liked it and found it very reasonable.

Offline Rabbit of Caerbannog

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Re: The "N" Word
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2012, 09:56:48 pm »
I think Tim Wise does a good job of dealing with it:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MnmmDiQSdA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MnmmDiQSdA</a>

Wow, another "anti-racist" activist who is racist.

And his way of addressing the double standard without actually addressing it is quite the non-sequitur.

Edit:  I went to the youtube page.  Both comments and ratings are disabled.

Go figure.
Yeah, he's really a well-known...um...racist. Whatever you say.

Offline Material Defender

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Re: The "N" Word
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2012, 02:27:22 pm »
Double standard in function and thought mostly comes from treating people different ways. Like how woman are generally regarded as progressive if they use man's stuff but men are regarded as sissies if they use women's stuff.

Though I understand reclaiming words, but it's like... gay means happy and queer means weird, beyond the homosexual stuff.  That's fine. But the N word meant someone inferior before it was came to be racist. It was a curse word and then got turned into a slur, so it's not really something to reclaim. It's always been a crappy word. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/NIgger?s=t Both meanings of the word are terrible. 

Does raise the question also of why do those formerlly oppressed by the n word use it, why don't the Chinese use the C word?
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Offline Cataclysm

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Re: The "N" Word
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2012, 02:28:20 pm »
I thought cunt meant vagina.
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Offline Material Defender

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Re: The "N" Word
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2012, 02:36:12 pm »
... Chink. Sorry. Should have just said it.
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Offline Fpqxz

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Re: The "N" Word
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2012, 04:01:51 pm »
I'm of the view that it depends more on context, intent, and setting than anything else.

For example, I've mentioned on here that a close friend of mine is Native Peruvian.  In explaining to me the difference between the racism in the USA and racism in Latin America, he said (and I'm quoting verbatim here) that "indigenous peoples are the niggers of Latin America".

Now, I can tell you that neither of us are racist people, at least not in the normal (i.e. non-Tumblr) definition of the word.  This was a private conversation, and he was using the terminology to make a point.  Obviously, he wouldn't have put it that way if he were giving a public speech, nor would he call a black person the "N word".  He used the word to convey the idea that the indigenous peoples of that part of the world were socially and economically disadvantaged in a way that a typical non-indigenous person is not.

I don't think there is anything wrong with that.
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Offline Rabbit of Caerbannog

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Re: The "N" Word
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2012, 04:42:56 pm »
I'm of the view that it depends more on context, intent, and setting than anything else.

For example, I've mentioned on here that a close friend of mine is Native Peruvian.  In explaining to me the difference between the racism in the USA and racism in Latin America, he said (and I'm quoting verbatim here) that "indigenous peoples are the niggers of Latin America".
Sometimes the word has been used to address inequality faced by other people, and the people who use the word in that context are not necessarily* racists. Case in point, John Lennon & Yoko Ono had a song--and a very good one at that--called "Woman is the Nigger of the World". In that case, I understood perfectly the message he was attempting to get across, which is that no matter what nation you're in or what color you are, women have been placed in a position that was lower than that of a man's.

That being said, as a white male, yes I would still be uncomfortable saying it in any context.

*I have actually heard white supremacists use words like that on themselves to symbolize their supposed persecution or fall from grace as the most powerful group in society. And they do so without any hint of irony.

Offline The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist

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Re: The "N" Word
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2012, 07:30:28 pm »
Incidentally, a bunch of SJWs on Tumblr are whinging about John Lennon using the word in that context.
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