Author Topic: What the Bible says about homosexuality  (Read 479 times)

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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2018, 09:49:55 pm »

Well ability to reproduce is an important trait that organisms naturally have. And please list the species that organisms have non reproductive roles?

Ants, many bees and wasps, termites, some beetles, some snapping shrimp, some mole rats.

Quote
And no, saving sex till marriage is not a disorder, because it forms the natural family unit with both a mother and father to raise the children.

Fun facts: premarital celibacy is not necessary for marriage, marriage is not necessary for mother/father families, marriage does not guarantee families of any particular kinds. But nice of you to acknowledge you were wrong about non-reproductive behaviour being disordered.


Quote
And it is the second. I do not know how to sexually identify myself and masterbate outside of my fetish. And I do not watch porn videos as my Christian beliefs make me consider pornography immoral and exploitive of women. But in terms of looking up images, what would you consider to be varied?

Just go to any hentai site and look around, mate. No women were exploited for it and it's gonna cater to more tastes than you know exist.
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Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
« Reply #31 on: May 29, 2018, 10:00:34 pm »

Well ability to reproduce is an important trait that organisms naturally have. And please list the species that organisms have non reproductive roles?

Ants, many bees and wasps, termites, some beetles, some snapping shrimp, some mole rats.

Quote
And no, saving sex till marriage is not a disorder, because it forms the natural family unit with both a mother and father to raise the children.

Fun facts: premarital celibacy is not necessary for marriage, marriage is not necessary for mother/father families, marriage does not guarantee families of any particular kinds. But nice of you to acknowledge you were wrong about non-reproductive behaviour being disordered.


Quote
And it is the second. I do not know how to sexually identify myself and masterbate outside of my fetish. And I do not watch porn videos as my Christian beliefs make me consider pornography immoral and exploitive of women. But in terms of looking up images, what would you consider to be varied?

Just go to any hentai site and look around, mate. No women were exploited for it and it's gonna cater to more tastes than you know exist.

1. Yes species that are not really closely related to humans on the evolutionary tree. Our closest relatives, Apes do not have non reproductive roles.

2. Um marriage is necessary for there to be a mother and father to raise their children together. Premarital celibacy, saves sex for it’s purpose which is procreation.

3. Ok I will try a hentai site.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
« Reply #32 on: May 29, 2018, 10:34:21 pm »
Well the Levis website isn't TECHNICALLY porn but we all know how YOU use it. Also "common sense" would be that a kid is with parents that love them. A kid with a mum and a dad where one is an abuser is not better off than a kid with two loving moms!

Offline Skybison

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Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2018, 02:07:58 am »
Hypothetical question for you Jacob

Two gay men and two lesbians form a four way household, the lesbians are impregnated by the gay men via artificial insemination, but exclusively have sex with their same sex partner while raising the children together with two fathers and two mothers.

Is this immoral and if so why?

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Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2018, 02:11:38 am »
You do realize that there are perfectly good evolutionary reasons for homosexuality, right?

Examples?

They add to the workforce without reproducing.

What happens (I'd have to find a citation on this, I admit) is that women have a tendency to release more of a certain hormone during pregnancy as they have more sons, and there is a correlation between homosexual tendencies and exposure to that hormone, and this would have been selected for because of the above reason: homosexuals add to the workforce but do not contribute to population growth.

That is the problem. They do not contribute to population growth.

It's not a problem, it is a benefit. They will care for the other children in the pack and provide for the pack. Their genes get passed on as their siblings have kids (and since whatever causes homosexuality is already in our DNA they don't need to have kids of their own) but having a lower number of kids in the community means that it is more likely that some of the kids survive to reach maturity.

The idiotic thinking of "must have as many kids as possible" is counter-productive. It leads to starvation and death while having a sustainable amount of children will mean that not only will the group survive they'll also a have a chance to increase numbers. It might not be as quick increase but it will be more sustainable.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2018, 07:54:28 am »
Well the Levis website isn't TECHNICALLY porn but we all know how YOU use it. Also "common sense" would be that a kid is with parents that love them. A kid with a mum and a dad where one is an abuser is not better off than a kid with two loving moms!

I agree with that, however my common sense provided reasons why a kid with a loving mom and dad is better off than a kid with two loving moms because it gives them both masculine and feminine influence. Without a dad, who will save them in times of danger? You need someone with muscular strength in those situations.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2018, 08:00:44 am »
Hypothetical question for you Jacob

Two gay men and two lesbians form a four way household, the lesbians are impregnated by the gay men via artificial insemination, but exclusively have sex with their same sex partner while raising the children together with two fathers and two mothers.

Is this immoral and if so why?

It would be immoral because having sex with the same sex partner does not produce children, so they should not be having sex. You should have children only with a husband or wife so artificial insemination should only be done between a gay man married to a lesbian woman.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2018, 08:01:55 am »
You do realize that there are perfectly good evolutionary reasons for homosexuality, right?

Examples?

They add to the workforce without reproducing.

What happens (I'd have to find a citation on this, I admit) is that women have a tendency to release more of a certain hormone during pregnancy as they have more sons, and there is a correlation between homosexual tendencies and exposure to that hormone, and this would have been selected for because of the above reason: homosexuals add to the workforce but do not contribute to population growth.

That is the problem. They do not contribute to population growth.

It's not a problem, it is a benefit. They will care for the other children in the pack and provide for the pack. Their genes get passed on as their siblings have kids (and since whatever causes homosexuality is already in our DNA they don't need to have kids of their own) but having a lower number of kids in the community means that it is more likely that some of the kids survive to reach maturity.

The idiotic thinking of "must have as many kids as possible" is counter-productive. It leads to starvation and death while having a sustainable amount of children will mean that not only will the group survive they'll also a have a chance to increase numbers. It might not be as quick increase but it will be more sustainable.

Good point, but since homosexuals do not produce children with sex, they should not be having homosexual sex.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
« Reply #38 on: May 30, 2018, 09:22:56 am »
Good point, but since homosexuals do not produce children with sex, they should not be having homosexual sex.
Why not? Not everyone wants to be a denim-fapping, self denying, "cut my bollocks off" ascetic!

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
« Reply #39 on: May 30, 2018, 11:18:13 am »
Good point, but since homosexuals do not produce children with sex, they should not be having homosexual sex.
Why not? Not everyone wants to be a denim-fapping, self denying, "cut my bollocks off" ascetic!

Because the biological evolutionary purpose of sex is reproduction so you either should have sex in marriage to reproduce, or you remain celibate.

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Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
« Reply #40 on: May 30, 2018, 11:49:10 am »
Good point, but since homosexuals do not produce children with sex, they should not be having homosexual sex.
Why not? Not everyone wants to be a denim-fapping, self denying, "cut my bollocks off" ascetic!

Because the biological evolutionary purpose of sex is reproduction so you either should have sex in marriage to reproduce, or you remain celibate.

You have several flaws in your theories but let me point out just few:

Sex has more evolutionary purposes than just reproduction. It is used for recreational purposes and for bonding with your partner(s) as well. It is well documented fact that humans are not solitary creatures and therefore sex with your partner(s) also serves and important function for most adults. ...Granted that asexuals exist and some people are antisocial so this does not apply to everyone or is less important for some but for the majority of humans sex is important for more than just acquiring children.

Demanding people to stop having sex for non-reproductive purposes makes about as much sense as demanding and end to all entertainment.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
« Reply #41 on: May 30, 2018, 12:46:05 pm »
Good point, but since homosexuals do not produce children with sex, they should not be having homosexual sex.
Why not? Not everyone wants to be a denim-fapping, self denying, "cut my bollocks off" ascetic!

Because the biological evolutionary purpose of sex is reproduction so you either should have sex in marriage to reproduce, or you remain celibate.

You have several flaws in your theories but let me point out just few:

Sex has more evolutionary purposes than just reproduction. It is used for recreational purposes and for bonding with your partner(s) as well. It is well documented fact that humans are not solitary creatures and therefore sex with your partner(s) also serves and important function for most adults. ...Granted that asexuals exist and some people are antisocial so this does not apply to everyone or is less important for some but for the majority of humans sex is important for more than just acquiring children.

Demanding people to stop having sex for non-reproductive purposes makes about as much sense as demanding and end to all entertainment.

You can bond with friends without having to have sex with them as well as family.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
« Reply #42 on: May 30, 2018, 05:38:24 pm »
Hey Jacob, what's the reproductive purpose in being attracted to denim?

When a man and a woman love each other very much do they go and knit one of these?



Please don't fap to that. If you do, don't tell us about it!

Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
« Reply #43 on: May 30, 2018, 09:32:13 pm »

Well ability to reproduce is an important trait that organisms naturally have. And please list the species that organisms have non reproductive roles?

Ants, many bees and wasps, termites, some beetles, some snapping shrimp, some mole rats.

Quote
And no, saving sex till marriage is not a disorder, because it forms the natural family unit with both a mother and father to raise the children.

Fun facts: premarital celibacy is not necessary for marriage, marriage is not necessary for mother/father families, marriage does not guarantee families of any particular kinds. But nice of you to acknowledge you were wrong about non-reproductive behaviour being disordered.


Quote
And it is the second. I do not know how to sexually identify myself and masterbate outside of my fetish. And I do not watch porn videos as my Christian beliefs make me consider pornography immoral and exploitive of women. But in terms of looking up images, what would you consider to be varied?

Just go to any hentai site and look around, mate. No women were exploited for it and it's gonna cater to more tastes than you know exist.

1. Yes species that are not really closely related to humans on the evolutionary tree. Our closest relatives, Apes do not have non reproductive roles.

2. Um marriage is necessary for there to be a mother and father to raise their children together. Premarital celibacy, saves sex for it’s purpose which is procreation.

3. Ok I will try a hentai site.

(I could start listing sexually reproducing species where individual organisms explicitly take non-reproductive roles as part of the standard functioning of the species, but let's be honest, you're gonna say something uninformed and refuse to learn anything in response)

Did I fucking call it or what
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Online Askold

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Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
« Reply #44 on: May 31, 2018, 04:51:40 pm »
I prefer the religious people who don't try to make up shit about biology or evolution and instead just admit that they think that most sex is "icky" or against their faith and those are the reasons why they oppose it. That is perfectly acceptable position to hold. It's not popular and enforcing it to people who disagree with the idea is not OK, but having that belief and only minding your own business is perfectly OK.

Your main problem is that you try to make up (or simply have grossly misunderstood) evolutionary biology and we are more than happy to point out that you have no idea what you are talking about.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!