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More proof that Christianity is true

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Jacob Harrison:
I got this from Quora

“There are a number of ancient classical accounts of Jesus from pagan, non-Christian sources. These accounts are generally hostile to Christianity; some ancient authors denied the miraculous nature of Jesus and the events surrounding His life:

Thallus (52AD)
 Thallus is perhaps the earliest secular writer to mention Jesus and he is so ancient his writings don’t even exist anymore. But Julius Africanus, writing around 221AD does quote Thallus who previously tried to explain away the darkness occurring at Jesus’ crucifixion:

“On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun.” (Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18:1)

If only more of Thallus’ record could be found, we might find more confirmation of Jesus’ crucifixion. But there are some things we can conclude from this account: Jesus lived, He was crucified, and there was an earthquake and darkness at the point of His crucifixion.

Mara Bar-Serapion (70AD)
 Sometime after 70AD, a Syrian philosopher named Mara Bar-Serapion, writing to encourage his son, compared the life and persecution of Jesus with that of other philosophers who were persecuted for their ideas. The fact Jesus is known to be a real person with this kind of influence is important. Mara Bar-Serapion refers to Jesus as the “Wise King”:

“What benefit did the Athenians obtain by putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as judgment for their crime. Or, the people of Samos for burning Pythagoras? In one moment their country was covered with sand. Or the Jews by murdering their wise king?…After that their kingdom was abolished. God rightly avenged these men…The wise king…Lived on in the teachings he enacted.”

From this account, we can add to our understanding of Jesus: He was a wise and influential man who died for His beliefs. The Jewish leadership was somehow responsible for Jesus’ death. Jesus’ followers adopted His beliefs and lived their lives accordingly.

Phlegon (80-140AD)
 In a manner similar to Thallus, Julius Africanus also mentions a historian named Phlegon who wrote a chronicle of history around 140AD. In this history, Phlegon also mentions the darkness surrounding the crucifixion in an effort to explain it:

“Phlegon records that, in the time of Tiberius Caesar, at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from the sixth to the ninth hour.” (Africanus, Chronography, 18:1)

Phlegon is also mentioned by Origen (an early church theologian and scholar, born in Alexandria):

“Now Phlegon, in the thirteenth or fourteenth book, I think, of his Chronicles, not only ascribed to Jesus a knowledge of future events . . . but also testified that the result corresponded to His predictions.” (Origen Against Celsus, Book 2, Chapter 14)

“And with regard to the eclipse in the time of Tiberius Caesar, in whose reign Jesus appears to have been crucified, and the great earthquakes which then took place … ” (Origen Against Celsus, Book 2, Chapter 33)

“Jesus, while alive, was of no assistance to himself, but that he arose after death, and exhibited the marks of his punishment, and showed how his hands had been pierced by nails.” (Origen Against Celsus, Book 2, Chapter 59)

From these accounts, we can add something to our understanding: Jesus had the ability to accurately predict the future, was crucified under the reign of Tiberius Caesar and demonstrated His wounds after he was resurrected.”

Tolpuddle Martyr:
The historicity of these accounts aside they wouldn't establish what your title claims if they were historically accurate. Your subject title posits these as proof that Christianity is true. Establishing that the stories of Jesus had a basis in any sort of fact would not prove the merits of the religion itself. They would not prove the existence of one god, they would not prove the divinity of Jesus nor that he was the Messiah and they would also not add any weight to the moral arguments posited in favour of Christianity.

I propose an alternative title, "more pointless rambling from Jacob." That would be in keeping with the subject title at least.

Jacob Harrison:

--- Quote from: Tolpuddle Martyr on October 05, 2018, 08:19:02 pm ---The historicity of these accounts aside they wouldn't establish what your title claims if they were historically accurate. Your subject title posits these as proof that Christianity is true. Establishing that the stories of Jesus had a basis in any sort of fact would not prove the merits of the religion itself. They would not prove the existence of one god, they would not prove the divinity of Jesus nor that he was the Messiah and they would also not add any weight to the moral arguments posited in favour of Christianity.

I propose an alternative title, "more pointless rambling from Jacob." That would be in keeping with the subject title at least.

--- End quote ---

But they mention the darkness and earthquake associated with the crucifixtion, and Mara Bar-Serapion calls him a wise King who was murdered.

Tolpuddle Martyr:
Then he's stoned, he was a carpenter who was executed if the gospel accounts have any truth in them at all.

As for all this bollocks about Earthquakes, citation-now!

dpareja:

--- Quote from: Tolpuddle Martyr on October 05, 2018, 10:13:42 pm ---Then he's stoned, he was a carpenter who was executed if the gospel accounts have any truth in them at all.

As for all this bollocks about Earthquakes, citation-now!

--- End quote ---

Mt. 27:51 claims there were earthquakes when Jesus died. (Also dead people walking around.)

Challenge: Take all four Passion narratives (Mt. 26:1--27:66, Mk. 14:1--15:47, Lk. 22:1--23:56, Jn. 18:1--20:10) and form a single coherent, non-contradictory narrative that does not omit any details from any of the four accounts.

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