Author Topic: TV Shows  (Read 139695 times)

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Offline ironbite

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #420 on: February 24, 2014, 09:20:42 pm »
God...damn that's a good episode of Gaim.

Ironbite-also ToQger is all kinds of adorable.

Offline Alehksunos

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #421 on: February 24, 2014, 09:40:12 pm »
Been re-watching ST:TNG on Netflix (they only have up to season 5 so far sadly) as it's been a long, long time since I last saw any TNG.

I have a question for those who remember all the seaons.  Does Troi get raped in EVERY season?  Because so far she seems to have suffered some kind of rape at least once in each season, whether it be a memory-telepathe using his ablities to implant the memory of a rape that never happened or a non coporial entity impregnating her as she sleeps so it can father itself as a human child.  It's pretty fucking disturbing, I think some of the TNG writers might have some serious issues.

I know the Alien franchise, which I love, is basically about rape but in those films everyone gets raped; men, women and even dogs.  They don't have one lone female character who repeatedly gets raped over and over with each new movie to the point where it starts to look like that might be the main reason why that indivdual character exists.

Plus, in Alien the whole rape analogy thing is intentionally disturbing and horrific.  Some of Troi's episodes however have almost the complete opposite tone.  Especially the one I mentioned with the non-coporial alien using her to father itself into a human child.

WTF, TNG?  I thought you were cool   :(

Blame the fact that the first two seasons were penned by a misogynist fuckwad by the name Marice Hurley, who left after Season 2. But yeah, the whole thing with Troi getting fucked literally so often is not cool.

Then there was this episode known as "The Child", where she got impregnated by some energy being, implanting itself in utero. And how Troi was offered to get an abortion as baby Edward Cullen is developing at an rapid rate. She chooses to give birth to it. I think that says a lot about Marice Hurley and his views on women. That was why Gates Macfadden (Dr. Beverly Crusher) left the show for only that season and Denise Crosby (Tasha Yar) left indefinitely, having her character killed before the end of Season 1.

It is a mystery to me how a show as great as TNG survived through such awful introductory seasons...

Offline Cerim Treascair

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #422 on: February 24, 2014, 11:47:54 pm »
also ToQger is all kinds of adorable.

Beep!

All the swapping... all the silly... all the adorkableness...


... so when are we getting a Kyoruger/ToQger crossover? because Right and Daigo would be amazing.
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Offline ironbite

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #423 on: February 25, 2014, 12:17:11 am »
Bout episode 15 or so of ToQger probably?

Ironbite-just glad they's not gonna be another Super Hero Taizen that doesn't actually feature any of the current Sentai or Kamen Riders.

Offline The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #424 on: February 25, 2014, 12:37:22 am »
Been re-watching ST:TNG on Netflix (they only have up to season 5 so far sadly) as it's been a long, long time since I last saw any TNG.

I have a question for those who remember all the seaons.  Does Troi get raped in EVERY season?  Because so far she seems to have suffered some kind of rape at least once in each season, whether it be a memory-telepathe using his ablities to implant the memory of a rape that never happened or a non coporial entity impregnating her as she sleeps so it can father itself as a human child.  It's pretty fucking disturbing, I think some of the TNG writers might have some serious issues.

I know the Alien franchise, which I love, is basically about rape but in those films everyone gets raped; men, women and even dogs.  They don't have one lone female character who repeatedly gets raped over and over with each new movie to the point where it starts to look like that might be the main reason why that indivdual character exists.

Plus, in Alien the whole rape analogy thing is intentionally disturbing and horrific.  Some of Troi's episodes however have almost the complete opposite tone.  Especially the one I mentioned with the non-coporial alien using her to father itself into a human child.

WTF, TNG?  I thought you were cool   :(

Blame the fact that the first two seasons were penned by a misogynist fuckwad by the name Marice Hurley, who left after Season 2. But yeah, the whole thing with Troi getting fucked literally so often is not cool.

Then there was this episode known as "The Child", where she got impregnated by some energy being, implanting itself in utero. And how Troi was offered to get an abortion as baby Edward Cullen is developing at an rapid rate. She chooses to give birth to it. I think that says a lot about Marice Hurley and his views on women. That was why Gates Macfadden (Dr. Beverly Crusher) left the show for only that season and Denise Crosby (Tasha Yar) left indefinitely, having her character killed before the end of Season 1.

It is a mystery to me how a show as great as TNG survived through such awful introductory seasons...

Yeah, the first couple seasons were full of crap like that. On top of the bad writing and characterization, there's a fair bit of sexism & even some stuff approaching racism (I forget the name of the episode, but that one with the planet populated by awful tribal stereotypes of black people is notorious for this -- I think it was Jonathan Frakes who called it a "racist piece of shit" when asked about it later on). It's a bit of a downer, since there were also other individuals involved who attempted to utilize more progressive ideals -- lack of male/female roles in clothing, men and women being of equal importance to the missions -- that ended up falling flat amongst all of the garbage.

The later seasons were far from perfect (particularly the way Troi was represented, and I recall that the episode about the Natives being relocated was a bit iffy in parts [though it's been a while since I watched it]), but the difference between seasons 3 onwards and the earlier seasons is incredibly glaring. Even the imperfect episodes, like the one with the androgynous species as an obvious allegory for gay rights, were relatively well done for 90s television.

Regarding Yarr, I didn't even particularly like her character (probably owing to the shitty writing & Denise Crosby's lackluster performance [which can be at least partially attributed to the lousy characterization, as she did much better when portraying Yarr and other characters in later episodes; that said, I'm not a huge fan of her acting in general]), but the way they killed her off was bullshit. I'm glad they brought her back in that one timeline episode to at least try to do the character some justice.

Pulaski was another good example of a character with potential being mishandled. The writers desperately tried to recreate the Spock/Bones dynamic with her and Data, but given Data's child-like innocence and the all around poor execution of the situation, it came across as straight up bullying. She was otherwise a great character -- spunky, intelligent, and a ton of personality -- and they tried to pull back from the lame human/non-human head butting as the season went on, but they pretty much poisoned the character at the start. I actually would have liked to see her and Crusher working together once Gates came back -- the two of them could have had a cool dynamic.

ETA: Of course, if we're going to talk about Star Trek dropping the ball, there's also Voyager's idiotic Generokee representation of Chekotay, with his spirit animals and vision quests (because you can't just have a guy who happens to be Native without making him all mystical and deeply in touch with nature, right?), or them taking one of the two most interesting characters on the show and using her as ridiculously over-the-top fanservice. A character can be both sexy and interesting, but that was just plain stupid and rather insulting to the viewers. And then there was the inconsistent characterization of Janeway...
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 12:47:30 am by The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist »
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Offline Katsuro

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #425 on: February 25, 2014, 11:31:04 am »

Yeah, the first couple seasons were full of crap like that. On top of the bad writing and characterization, there's a fair bit of sexism & even some stuff approaching racism (I forget the name of the episode, but that one with the planet populated by awful tribal stereotypes of black people is notorious for this -- I think it was Jonathan Frakes who called it a "racist piece of shit" when asked about it later on).

The "memory rape" episode I think was in season 5, so even in the later, better seasons Troi was still getting raped on a regular basis.

But, yeah, that black tribe episode was stunning to watch,  It was made even worse by the fact that the same season had an episode set on what was supposedly an idealic planet populated by a speacies famous for their beauty...and every single member of said species was white with blonde hair.  Without exception.

In general, for a show that's supposed to be progressive Star Trek (every iteration) has a hell of a lot of fan service at the expense of the female cast, as well as a hell of a lot of racism...well it would be racism if the races in question actually existed.

Offline I am lizard

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #426 on: February 28, 2014, 01:01:21 am »
Has anyone here seen "Stevens Universe" yet?

Offline Alehksunos

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #427 on: February 28, 2014, 01:04:56 am »
Has anyone here seen "Stevens Universe" yet?

Plan to. That show looks great.

Anyway, Wonder Showzen just may be one of the most disturbing shows I have ever watched, but it is also one of the funniest shows I have ever watched. It is basically Don't Hug Me, I'm Scared before Don't Hug Me, I'm Scared, and the first fucked-up Sesame Street parodies done right and the few, if not the only, good programs that ever aired on MTV2, outside of Beavis and Butthead reruns.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2014, 01:06:47 am by Alehksunos »

Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #428 on: February 28, 2014, 07:36:10 pm »
As far as TNG goes, it doesn't help that Troi was, for quite a bit of it (that I recall, anyway), in one state which went something like "I'm sensing X, Captain."  Also, why does a counselor need to be on the bridge?  Shouldn't she be in, ya know, her office, where her patients can easily get a hold of her?  She's about as close to a civilian as you can get in Starfleet, yet she's on the bridge more than she's in her office.

That aside, it stands to reason that my favourite episodes are the Q episodes and the Borg encounters.  As for Chakotay, I tended to think of his "magical Indian" crap as low-grade psychic powers because he was a mutant of some sort...who just happened to be an American Indian of some sort.  And fan service characters?  Well, fuck me with a cattle prod, that's totally never happened in almost every television series and movie ever made by human hands.

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Offline The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #429 on: March 01, 2014, 12:03:08 am »
As far as TNG goes, it doesn't help that Troi was, for quite a bit of it (that I recall, anyway), in one state which went something like "I'm sensing X, Captain."

The writers have bitched about not knowing what they could have done with the character, but I think that's total BS -- there was a lot more they could have done with her.

Quote
And fan service characters?  Well, fuck me with a cattle prod, that's totally never happened in almost every television series and movie ever made by human hands.

So is lazy writing and bad characterization, but that doesn't stop us from pointing out the particularly ridiculous examples. :P
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Offline Katsuro

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #430 on: March 01, 2014, 03:11:09 am »

Quote
And fan service characters?  Well, fuck me with a cattle prod, that's totally never happened in almost every television series and movie ever made by human hands.

So is lazy writing and bad characterization, but that doesn't stop us from pointing out the particularly ridiculous examples. :P

Yep, that's no excuse.   Just because loads of other shows do something doesn't mean you can't call a specific show on it and that you just have to accept it whearever it rears its ugly head; it does not exempt shows guilty of it from criticism.  "Everyone else was doing it!" is a playground mentality defense that doesn't fly in the real world.  Everybody else doing it is sometimes a good reason to not do something.  Be the one who breaks the trend, lead the way and show others you don't have to do that thing, there is another better way.  Which, considereing what the show was about, is exactly what Trek should have done.  But instead they took the cheap, easy way and followed the herd.

Also, Star Trek is a bit different than most of those other shows because Trek was supposed to be progressive.  It was supposed to be about a future where sexism, racism etc had more or less ended and everybody was seen as, and treated as, equal regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation (despite the lack of gay people in Trek), that was kind one of major points of the show in the first place.  T&A fanservice is at complete odds with that, you can't have it both ways.  Plus, most other shows do not make the same pretenses as to progressiveness and equality that Trek did.  Which was actually my point: not that ST had fanservice but that it had so much fanservice whilst simultaniously  and hypocritically pretending it was all progressive and shit.  Hence why I said "for a show that's supposed to be progressive Star Trek has a hell of a lot of fan service"

It wasn't the only hypocricy the show displayed but it was the most obvious.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 03:22:50 am by Katsuro »

Offline chitoryu12

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #431 on: March 01, 2014, 03:21:08 am »
As far as TNG goes, it doesn't help that Troi was, for quite a bit of it (that I recall, anyway), in one state which went something like "I'm sensing X, Captain."  Also, why does a counselor need to be on the bridge?  Shouldn't she be in, ya know, her office, where her patients can easily get a hold of her?  She's about as close to a civilian as you can get in Starfleet, yet she's on the bridge more than she's in her office.

TNG was the start of a terrible trend where Starfleet started to mix military and civilian governments and life together: military law being the law of the galaxy, civilians loaded onto warships (don't tell me the Enterprise wasn't a warship; that's just dense), and a changeover to a communist government.
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Offline Katsuro

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #432 on: March 01, 2014, 03:35:26 am »
As far as TNG goes, it doesn't help that Troi was, for quite a bit of it (that I recall, anyway), in one state which went something like "I'm sensing X, Captain."  Also, why does a counselor need to be on the bridge?  Shouldn't she be in, ya know, her office, where her patients can easily get a hold of her?  She's about as close to a civilian as you can get in Starfleet, yet she's on the bridge more than she's in her office.

TNG was the start of a terrible trend where Starfleet started to mix military and civilian governments and life together: military law being the law of the galaxy, civilians loaded onto warships (don't tell me the Enterprise wasn't a warship; that's just dense), and a changeover to a communist government.

As far as TNG goes, it doesn't help that Troi was, for quite a bit of it (that I recall, anyway), in one state which went something like "I'm sensing X, Captain."  Also, why does a counselor need to be on the bridge?  Shouldn't she be in, ya know, her office, where her patients can easily get a hold of her?  She's about as close to a civilian as you can get in Starfleet, yet she's on the bridge more than she's in her office.

TNG was the start of a terrible trend where Starfleet started to mix military and civilian governments and life together: military law being the law of the galaxy, civilians loaded onto warships (don't tell me the Enterprise wasn't a warship; that's just dense), and a changeover to a communist government.

Well I always thought Troi was on the bridge because of her ability to sense deception and mallice, which would come in useful when talking to people you don't know if you should trust.  But that doesn't really explain why she was a permanant, full time bridge crew member.  In real life she'd spend the majority of her shift doing fuck all.

I also found the shows assertions that Starfleet was not a military orgnaisation and the Enterprise was not a battle ship to be more than a little daft.  Why does a non-military organisation have military ranks and structure, adhear to military style law complete with court martials, wear uniforms, train in military tactics and have ships like the Enterprise that seem suspiciously well equiped for battle.

Star Fleet to me is basically the space navy.  Sure their primary focus might be on exploration and science and avoiding violent confrontation if possible but they're still essentially a military outfit.  I mean the explorers of the 14th and 15th centuries did not go exploring in naval frigates, despite the potential risks.  And as far as I know most scientists do not have combat training and do not conduct research armed even when they go into dangrous regions.  Probably because it's hard to convince someone that you are not there for military reasons and are not a threat when you're packing an assault rifle and wearing an army uniform.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 03:37:21 am by Katsuro »

Offline Dakota Bob

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #433 on: March 01, 2014, 05:28:17 am »

Yeah, the first couple seasons were full of crap like that. On top of the bad writing and characterization, there's a fair bit of sexism & even some stuff approaching racism (I forget the name of the episode, but that one with the planet populated by awful tribal stereotypes of black people is notorious for this -- I think it was Jonathan Frakes who called it a "racist piece of shit" when asked about it later on).

The "memory rape" episode I think was in season 5, so even in the later, better seasons Troi was still getting raped on a regular basis.

But, yeah, that black tribe episode was stunning to watch,  It was made even worse by the fact that the same season had an episode set on what was supposedly an idealic planet populated by a speacies famous for their beauty...and every single member of said species was white with blonde hair.  Without exception.

In general, for a show that's supposed to be progressive Star Trek (every iteration) has a hell of a lot of fan service at the expense of the female cast, as well as a hell of a lot of racism...well it would be racism if the races in question actually existed.

I'm sure back in the 60's/80's Star Trek: TOS and TNG seemed pretty progressive, still some progressive parts now, but there's always something to remind you, "oh yeah, it's still a product of the 80's"

I wonder if they did a Star Trek series today, would it able to go balls-out with the progressivism?

Offline The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist

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Re: TV Shows
« Reply #434 on: March 01, 2014, 06:03:43 am »
Judging by the movies, I'd say the answer is "no".
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