Author Topic: Combating frummers: how do we do it?  (Read 1959 times)

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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Combating frummers: how do we do it?
« on: May 07, 2014, 10:34:57 pm »
Mocking frummers on the internet isn't enough.  We really ought to have strategies to fight back against them.  Any ideas?

Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Combating frummers: how do we do it?
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2014, 11:03:08 pm »
Mocking frummers on the internet isn't enough.  We really ought to have strategies to fight back against them.  Any ideas?

Expose their ignorance for what it is.  We will never convince them, but the true benefit of the argument is the faceless masses who stumble across it, and see their ignorance plainly displayed.
Mockery of ideas you don't comprehend or understand is the surest mark of unintelligence.

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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Combating frummers: how do we do it?
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2014, 11:06:46 pm »
Mocking frummers on the internet isn't enough.  We really ought to have strategies to fight back against them.  Any ideas?

Expose their ignorance for what it is.  We will never convince them, but the true benefit of the argument is the faceless masses who stumble across it, and see their ignorance plainly displayed.
My sentiments exactly.  Take away their support, and you're left with willfully ignorant jerks desperately pleading for somebody to pay attention to them.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 11:08:21 pm by Ultimate Paragon »

Offline I am lizard

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Re: Combating frummers: how do we do it?
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2014, 01:41:36 am »
Find them and hit them with a fish.

Offline Barbarella

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Re: Combating frummers: how do we do it?
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2014, 01:55:21 pm »
Get a platform for non-frummer people of faith. They are out there but they don't have the bucks or media influence to combat in the giant, out-there way. This will provide an alternative for spiritual seekers (so they don't get sucked into frummerism, thus decreasing frum-ranks), provide good counter-arguments for each bit of frum-insanity & take the wind out of the frum's propaganda-sails.

Concerning Islamo-frummerism, it's all over the place because Wahabiism is HEAVILY-funded by Saudi Arabia! It was invented by Saudis to discredit & destroy more kinder, saner forms of Islam. They have tons of Wahabi Madrassas & mosques and for many young people in bad situations, it's the only Islam they know. That said, Islamophobia is not the problem, Wahabiism is. Same can be held true for sane peaceful Christianity vs. ChristoFrum Puritanism. Frum-religion must be wiped out!

A great way to combat a corrupt group is for a non-corrupt version of said group to speak out against it. Same holds true for men standing up for women's rights. If the majority of men & boys were vocal about the rights of women & girls, misogyny would die out faster.

I also feel that the concept of "The Demiurge" needs to be introduced to all faiths and not just be seen as a strictly "Gnostic" thing. The Demiurge can be seen as either a literal or metaphorical "Spirit Of False Piety" & "Devil of Frummerism". Any scripture that espouses anything condoning Ethnicism, Sexism, Homophobia, Rape, Genocide, Ableism or any other malevolent "Ism" will be dismissed as "Demiurgic" & therefore heresy & delusion that can be rejected.

In the end, though, I think scriptures are "all vanity" & that reducing The Divine to a mere book written by human hands is dumb & pure hubris. Since people are bound to follow Organized Religion, however, this is the best we could do.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 11:02:32 am by SpukiKitty »

Offline rageaholic

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Re: Combating frummers: how do we do it?
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2014, 04:21:00 pm »
Mocking frummers on the internet isn't enough.  We really ought to have strategies to fight back against them.  Any ideas?

Expose their ignorance for what it is.  We will never convince them, but the true benefit of the argument is the faceless masses who stumble across it, and see their ignorance plainly displayed.

In general, I'd say this is the best approach for dealing with fundies.  Lower the number of the people they have influence over by exposing their faulty reasoning.  I actually think a lot of people who are involved in a fundie church want to leave, but are bound by fear, guilt, and social pressure to live a "godly" life.  This was me at one time, I hated everything about fundamentalism (including the "loving" God who would condemn billions to eternal torment), but I was convinced it was one of those harsh truths of life that we just had to accept.  What began to open my eyes was this article comparing the "relationship" with God to a relationship with an abuser.  Suddenly, I saw the faith in a much different light than how apologists tried to paint it as.  It opened the door to me looking at things more objectivily instead of trying to make excuses for the inconsistancies of the Bible (which is what apologists do). 

Of course everyone is different, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were more in this predicament. 

Offline Old Viking

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Re: Combating frummers: how do we do it?
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2014, 03:00:57 pm »
Follow them surreptitiously and, in public venues, put whoopee cushions on their chairs.
I am an old man, and I've seen many problems, most of which never happened.

Offline Rime

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Re: Combating frummers: how do we do it?
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2014, 07:41:03 am »
I dislike seeing the word "combat" but I get what you're saying.  I'll posit this to you:

"What would you do to get Ken Ham to understand evolution?"

Ken Ham believes that God isn't intelligent enough to make this universe without breaking the laws of science he supposedly invented in really spectacular ways, let alone understand that genes can change to adapt to life, and has pretty much said that nothing will change that for as long as he's capable of drawing breath.

 I think the easiest way is to be a better example, stay calm and provide well-reasoned criticism without sounding angry.  Naturally, someone who will resort to thumping their bible and yelling to prove you wrong will definitely edify those teetering toward fundie views to at least evaluate their attitude.
And when we're done soul searching,
And we carry the weight and die for a cause.
Is misery made beautiful
Right before our eyes.

Mercy be revealed, or blind us where we stand?

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Re: Combating frummers: how do we do it?
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2014, 02:13:33 pm »
Be nice. Nobody likes a bully, so as long as we keep it as "fundies are bullies, sane people are victims," we win the hearts of the observers. A live and let live narrative makes that pretty easy.

This is the same reasoning behind all those posts about the Gay Agenda; whoever started that meme probably didn't believe it, but they knew that nobody likes a bully. Contest with Westboro Baptist, who never got the memo and lost the support of the smarter homophobes.