FSTDT Forums
Community => Religion and Philosophy => Topic started by: Nightangel8212 on January 29, 2012, 03:17:32 pm
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Not sure if this should go here, due to the fact that it was honor killings, or in the P&G section, but here it is...
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/shafia-jury-enters-second-full-day-deliberations-kingston-090532874.html
If you feel this is more political than religious, feel free to move it :)
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Link broken.
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Link broken.
fixed
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Geeti was becoming almost impossible to control: skipping school, failing classes, being sent home for wearing revealing clothes and stealing. But her most egregious breach was telling almost every authority figure she encountered that she wanted to be sent to foster care, the Crown said.
If a child was asking to go to foster care why did no one investigate this family?
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Geeti was becoming almost impossible to control: skipping school, failing classes, being sent home for wearing revealing clothes and stealing. But her most egregious breach was telling almost every authority figure she encountered that she wanted to be sent to foster care, the Crown said.
If a child was asking to go to foster care why did no one investigate this family?
Yeah, that's some serious fail right there. If a child hates their living situation so much that they would rather leave their family and be juggled through America's terrible adoption/foster care system, then any person with half a brain cell should investigate that shit.
Also, inb4 "This is proof that Muslims are evil"
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Geeti was becoming almost impossible to control: skipping school, failing classes, being sent home for wearing revealing clothes and stealing. But her most egregious breach was telling almost every authority figure she encountered that she wanted to be sent to foster care, the Crown said.
If a child was asking to go to foster care why did no one investigate this family?
Yeah, that's some serious fail right there. If a child hates their living situation so much that they would rather leave their family and be juggled through America's terrible adoption/foster care system, then any person with half a brain cell should investigate that shit.
Also, inb4 "This is proof that Muslims are evil"
This was in Canada, not the US.
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Yeah, that's some serious fail right there. If a child hates their living situation so much that they would rather leave their family and be juggled through America's terrible adoption/foster care system, then any person with half a brain cell should investigate that shit.
Also, inb4 "This is proof that Muslims are evil"
This is a Canadian story, but yeah, wanting to go into foster care should have been a big warning sign. I'm guessing it was fobbed off as 'brat is trying to use the old children's aid threat to get what she wants from her parents.'
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Geeti was becoming almost impossible to control: skipping school, failing classes, being sent home for wearing revealing clothes and stealing. But her most egregious breach was telling almost every authority figure she encountered that she wanted to be sent to foster care, the Crown said.
If a child was asking to go to foster care why did no one investigate this family?
Yeah, that's some serious fail right there. If a child hates their living situation so much that they would rather leave their family and be juggled through America's terrible adoption/foster care system, then any person with half a brain cell should investigate that shit.
Also, inb4 "This is proof that Muslims are evil"
This was in Canada, not the US.
Oh. Right. My bad.
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg)
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Good. Hopefully this will discourage other honour killings.
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I'd imagine that in the U.S. and Canada, "honor killings" are actually rare. But when they do happen, the news jumps all over the stories because it will attract attention.
Here's some comments from the site:
the moment I heard the accident contained arab women..I said immediately..It's a honor killing! As I know how they are..and the way it happened was impossible it was an accident..then a relative called the police to tell them it was a honor killing..and we let these people in our country..!!! Shame!
looking at this GENETIC CULTURAL DETRITUS,
there is the understanding that Canada has been dirtied
stop all further immigration/ refugees/ assylum seekers
save Canada
They should be treated like the way Saudi Arabia treats other nationals. They should either be stoned to death or chop their hands off. Then we are talking. Imagine the amount of taxpayers money being spent for these assholes because of their religion. We should not entertain such types of practices.
But they're from Afghanistan...
Isnt it pathetic how such a small minority of people seem to be dominating our headlines with negative stories, yet we continually allow them to come here?
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Rare or not, the fact that they happen AT FUCKING ALL and the people committing them see absolutely no problem with them at all to the point of making STATEMENTS IN COURT like these:
"We are not criminal, we are not murderer, we didn't commit the murder and this is unjust," Shafia said through an interpreter when the judge asked if he had anything to say.
Yahya, who spent a withering six days on the stand testifying in her own defence, was similarly assertive.
"Your honourable justice, this is not just," she said, also through an interpreter. "I am not a murderer, and I am a mother  a mother!"
Yeah, no. That's not okay. I don't care how rarely they happen--or how rarely they're PERSECUTED, in any case--I'm offended and enraged that they occur at all.
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I remember reading about cases in the UK and Germany.
According to this piece, there are around 12 a year in the UK.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/honourcrimes/crimesofhonour_1.shtml
This article says around 17,000 women are
subjected to "honour" related violence
a year in the UK.
The Guardian has different figures
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/dec/03/honour-crimes-uk-rising
And it's not just a Muslim thing:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/02/12/sikh-dad-strangled-daughter-who-was-in-relationship-with-white-soldier-115875-22916889/
http://bari.repubblica.it/cronaca/2011/08/05/news/sei_il_disonore_della_famiglia-20061452/?ref=HREC2-6 (according to Wikipedia and Google translate, a man was killed by hisbrother for being homosexual)
And yeah, the family's attitudes are disgusting. But I'm sure they have some consolation like "We saved them from going to hell" or something like that.
Edit: Nope, it seems the Shafia family is happy and are only bothered with their honour.
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Honestly, I don't care why anybody commits an 'honour' killing or any other kind of ritual/cultural/religious killing. I don't care how much 'good' they think they're doing for the victim, or themselves, or their families, or their communities by offing someone over some neolithic superstition--the fact is that except for self-defense or euthanasia of the ill and suffering, there just flat-out isn't a good reason to kill anybody. Nothing you can say, no god you can appeal to, no 'IT'S MY CULTURE!!' crap you can hide behind can change that. I don't care how ethnocentric of me this is, either. IT IS OBJECTIVELY NOT OKAY AND NOTHING IN THE WORLD CHANGES THAT.
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Ya know, I'd sentence them back to the Iron Age they love so much, but I wouldn't want to run the risk of having them screwing with one of my ancestors. So, yes, let them be surrounded by iron bars, not to keep the daemons from getting to them, but to keep the devils they are from getting to any other civilized human beings.
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The funny thing is, is that this isn't much of a "muslim" phenomenom. In India, women are killed, beaten, set on fire for marrying the wrong caste, and who hasn't heard of some white dad killing his daughter because she was dating a 'no good troublmaker'
Muslims just have a term for it. That being said, I'm glad they've been convicted. When it first broke in the news, the parents played the role of 'grieving parents', which in hindsight, seemed even more despicable.
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The funny thing is, is that this isn't much of a "muslim" phenomenom. In India, women are killed, beaten, set on fire for marrying the wrong caste, and who hasn't heard of some white dad killing his daughter because she was dating a 'no good troublmaker'
Muslims just have a term for it. That being said, I'm glad they've been convicted. When it first broke in the news, the parents played the role of 'grieving parents', which in hindsight, seemed even more despicable.
indeed.
"Death by missadventure" is what they call it among english speaking white folks.
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Honestly, I don't care why anybody commits an 'honour' killing or any other kind of ritual/cultural/religious killing. I don't care how much 'good' they think they're doing for the victim, or themselves, or their families, or their communities by offing someone over some neolithic superstition--the fact is that except for self-defense or euthanasia of the ill and suffering, there just flat-out isn't a good reason to kill anybody. Nothing you can say, no god you can appeal to, no 'IT'S MY CULTURE!!' crap you can hide behind can change that. I don't care how ethnocentric of me this is, either. IT IS OBJECTIVELY NOT OKAY AND NOTHING IN THE WORLD CHANGES THAT.
I completely agree, I was just wondering if they tried to justify it, kinda like anti-gay activists talk about 'saving people' and 'bringing them back to Christ'.
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Aren't these the same people who Googled "how to commit a murder" before killing their daughter? I mean, that's kind of an indicator that the defendant might actually be guilty. Either way, good that they were convicted.
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Off-topic: what the crap is that in your icon? Looks like milk with a dead dragonfly in it...
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Off-topic: what the crap is that in your icon? Looks like milk with a dead dragonfly in it...
I thought it was some flowers in a soup bowl.
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I'm glad they were found guilty, and I hope the 25 year minimum turns into a life sentence. I'm sure Canadian prison is different from American prison, but I hope these people are left to rot in some cell (preferably in solitary confinement). I don't know how anyone could kill their own child(ren), even if they are upset with them. Isn't that supposed to be essentially biologically/psychologically impossible?
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Isn't that supposed to be essentially biologically/psychologically impossible?
Obviously not (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Yates).
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Aren't these the same people who Googled "how to commit a murder" before killing their daughter? I mean, that's kind of an indicator that the defendant might actually be guilty. Either way, good that they were convicted.
It's flowers in a coffee cup, but it's really just a placeholder until I can find one I like better. I was getting tired of my old one, but haven't found a new one I really like yet.
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The funny thing is, is that this isn't much of a "muslim" phenomenom. In India, women are killed, beaten, set on fire for marrying the wrong caste, and who hasn't heard of some white dad killing his daughter because she was dating a 'no good troublmaker'
Muslims just have a term for it. That being said, I'm glad they've been convicted. When it first broke in the news, the parents played the role of 'grieving parents', which in hindsight, seemed even more despicable.
indeed.
"Death by missadventure" is what they call it among english speaking white folks.
'Death By Misadventure' is actually Victorian term for suicide: because suicide was illegal and against various Church laws, the deceased's family wouldn't get insurance and couldn't bury the body in a consecrated grave.
These days, it usually refers to someone who's died through doing something such as thinking it's a really smart idea to walk through or a railway tunnel ("He said it was quicker") or try and plug something in whilst in the bath, that kind of thing.
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This was in Canada, not the US.
Oh. Right. My bad.
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg)
Eh, Canada's foster care system isn't exactly amazing either, so the point still stands.
But they're from Afghanistan...
Saudi Arabia bills itself as THE Muslim state, despite the fact that the majority of Muslims don't adhere to the Hanbali madhhab. As such, those unfamiliar with the religion tend to assume that Saudi Arabian law is representative of what all or most Muslims believe.
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Serves the bastards right.
That's all I can bring myself to say.
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I am not surprised they were convicted. Unfortunately I do not think their conviction will sway other murdering bastards from offing their own children when it conveniences them using the same false "honour" justification.
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I am not surprised they were convicted. Unfortunately I do not think their conviction will sway other murdering bastards from offing their own children when it conveniences them using the same false "honour" justification.
Sadly true. There's been too many of these cases (one involving the murder of a female police officer) for anyone to think they'll go away anytime soon. What IS worrying is that the families who commit them don't see a problem with it.
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The funny thing is, is that this isn't much of a "muslim" phenomenom. In India, women are killed, beaten, set on fire for marrying the wrong caste, and who hasn't heard of some white dad killing his daughter because she was dating a 'no good troublmaker'
Muslims just have a term for it. That being said, I'm glad they've been convicted. When it first broke in the news, the parents played the role of 'grieving parents', which in hindsight, seemed even more despicable.
indeed.
"Death by missadventure" is what they call it among english speaking white folks.
Its more a sexism thing than a Muslim thing. The cultures that have honor killing are usually those that treat women as property, of the father before marriage and of the husband after. Its called honor killing because women who don't listen to their husbands are no longer women, they're "spoiled goods" that should be "thrown away".
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Its more a sexism thing than a Muslim thing. The cultures that have honor killing are usually those that treat women as property, of the father before marriage and of the husband after. Its called honor killing because women who don't listen to their husbands are no longer women, they're "spoiled goods" that should be "thrown away".
This. It's not always as overt as bride burning and honour killings, either -- apology for rape and domestic abuse against women also stems from the same "bitch had it coming" mentality.
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I'd have paid good money to see that judge address the family with something along the lines of: "You have ended four lives because they did not want to be under your control. Because they wanted to have the same freedoms afforded to everyone else in this nation. This is the act of a coward and has brought nothing but shame and dishonor on every member of your family. This shame will continue to stain your family long after you have died and faded from memory."
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I doubt the Shafia's care what the judge thinks as he is a dirty infidel. The people who's opinion they care about (other retarded fundies) probably support their actions.
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They posted up another article detailing exactly how the police solved the crime... Interesting read...
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/inside-look-shafia-case-police-tell-killers-were-202627691.html
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I'd have paid good money to see that judge address the family with something along the lines of: "You have ended four lives because they did not want to be under your control. Because they wanted to have the same freedoms afforded to everyone else in this nation. This is the act of a coward and has brought nothing but shame and dishonor on every member of your family. This shame will continue to stain your family long after you have died and faded from memory."
I would sit here exalting this all day if I could.
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http://ca.news.yahoo.com/shafias-appeal-murder-convictions-161510424.html
Good luck with this, considering the RECORDINGS police took of you assholes... :eyeroll:
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She told the court that when family honour is threatened, it is acceptable and expected in some cultures that a male family member could kill a relative.
NO! BAD EXPERT! It is never ever ever acceptable to murder anyone even for a something as vague as "bruised honor".
Ironbite-hope you rot in hell you stupid bitch.
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She told the court that when family honour is threatened, it is acceptable and expected in some cultures that a male family member could kill a relative.
NO! BAD EXPERT! It is never ever ever acceptable to murder anyone even for a something as vague as "bruised honor".
Ironbite-hope you rot in hell you stupid bitch.
Some cultures, maybe, but this is Canada. If you don't like our rules don't let the door hit you in the ass.
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I doubt the Shafia's care what the judge thinks as he is a dirty infidel. The people who's opinion they care about (other retarded fundies) probably support their actions.
I know. Bonus points if the judge is Muslim and wearing a turban.
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She told the court that when family honour is threatened, it is acceptable and expected in some cultures that a male family member could kill a relative.
NO! BAD EXPERT! It is never ever ever acceptable to murder anyone even for a something as vague as "bruised honor".
Ironbite-hope you rot in hell you stupid bitch.
Um. She's a witness for the prosecution. She's made it her mission in life to fight the patriarchal societies that allow for this. She was just explaining why people would commit honor killings, not trying to justify them. The defense is pointing to her to say that she isn't an objective witness, and therefore her testimony should be thrown out.
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She told the court that when family honour is threatened, it is acceptable and expected in some cultures that a male family member could kill a relative.
NO! BAD EXPERT! It is never ever ever acceptable to murder anyone even for a something as vague as "bruised honor".
Ironbite-hope you rot in hell you stupid bitch.
Um. She's a witness for the prosecution. She's made it her mission in life to fight the patriarchal societies that allow for this. She was just explaining why people would commit honor killings, not trying to justify them. The defense is pointing to her to say that she isn't an objective witness, and therefore her testimony should be thrown out.
Yeah that is what expert witnesses do, in that particular culture honour killing is acceptable so that is what she told the court. If she had added that she thinks honour killing is bad then that would have been her personal opinion and that is not important to the case.
I still think that it is hypocritical that Shafia's are trying to deny the murder and even deny that honour killings happen while they use the very honour killing customs as their justification for what they did.
Either:
a) Honour killing is acceptable in their culture (but not in Canadian culture or laws) and they should go to jail for what they did. (Even if their "honour" is pure according to their culture/religion.)
b) Honour killing is not acceptable in their culture in which case they have not only broken canadian laws but also further tarnished their honour according to their culture/religion.