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Community => Politics and Government => Topic started by: TheContrarian on June 08, 2017, 01:41:33 pm

Title: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: TheContrarian on June 08, 2017, 01:41:33 pm
Didn't see this one coming lol

The Daily Stormer endorsing Jeremy Corbyn for his antisemitic credentials (https://www.dailystormer.com/this-is-real-im-not-joking-about-endorsing-jeremy-corbyn/)

tbh Labour could sit down with Hamas and various Neonazi groups and have a decent chinwag about the evils of Israel and the myth of the Holocaust and no-one would be fucking surprised.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: dpareja on June 08, 2017, 01:52:59 pm
https://gandhifoundation.org/2014/01/09/the-gandhi-foundation-international-peace-award-2013/

Quote
The Trustees of The Gandhi Foundation agreed to offer him our International Peace Award in recognition of his consistent efforts over a 30 year Parliamentary career to uphold the Gandhian values of social justice and non‐violence. Besides being a popular and hard‐working constituency MP he has made time to speak and write extensively in support of human rights at home and world‐wide. His committed opposition to neocolonial wars and to nuclear weapons has repeatedly shown the lack of truth in the arguments of those who have opposed him.

Also, being critical of the government of Israel is not the same as being anti-Semitic.

EDIT: And yes, I read the Stormer article. I'd written that last comment before I read it because I was positive that was their argument (being opposed to the government of Israel = anti-Semitic), but it's good to know that they're still using that stupid talking point.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: pyro on June 08, 2017, 02:19:02 pm
Giving someone a medal doesn't make them above criticism.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: dpareja on June 08, 2017, 02:20:44 pm
Quote from: pyro on June 08, 2017, 02:19:02 pm
Giving someone a medal doesn't make them above criticism.

Of course not.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: TheContrarian on June 08, 2017, 02:38:56 pm
Quote from: pyro on June 08, 2017, 02:19:02 pm
Giving someone a medal doesn't make them above criticism.

Also doesn't matter if the criticism is true or not.  It's the association that counts.

Remember, Donald Trump was endorsed by a former wizard of the KKK and OMFG IT TOOK HIM A WHOLE DAY TO ISSUE A STATEMENT REJECTING SAID ENDORSEMENT!!!!one!

Well, Corbyn is now indelibly linked with Neonazi elements as of yesterday.  I...haven't seen any hint of a rejection from him in the last 24 hours so I guess he agrees wholeheartedly with their Jew-hating platform.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: dpareja on June 08, 2017, 02:41:31 pm
Quote from: TheContrarian on June 08, 2017, 02:38:56 pm
Quote from: pyro on June 08, 2017, 02:19:02 pm
Giving someone a medal doesn't make them above criticism.

Also doesn't matter if the criticism is true or not.  It's the association that counts.

Remember, Donald Trump was endorsed by a former wizard of the KKK and OMFG IT TOOK HIM A WHOLE DAY TO ISSUE A STATEMENT REJECTING SAID ENDORSEMENT!!!!one!

Well, Corbyn is now indelibly linked with Neonazi elements as of yesterday.  I...haven't seen any hint of a rejection from him in the last 24 hours so I guess he agrees wholeheartedly with their Jew-hating platform.

*facepalm*

The difference is that Trump had been saying things while campaigning that would appeal to people like David Duke.

Corbyn has not.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: TheContrarian on June 08, 2017, 02:47:45 pm
Quote from: dpareja on June 08, 2017, 02:41:31 pm
Quote from: TheContrarian on June 08, 2017, 02:38:56 pm
Quote from: pyro on June 08, 2017, 02:19:02 pm
Giving someone a medal doesn't make them above criticism.

Also doesn't matter if the criticism is true or not.  It's the association that counts.

Remember, Donald Trump was endorsed by a former wizard of the KKK and OMFG IT TOOK HIM A WHOLE DAY TO ISSUE A STATEMENT REJECTING SAID ENDORSEMENT!!!!one!

Well, Corbyn is now indelibly linked with Neonazi elements as of yesterday.  I...haven't seen any hint of a rejection from him in the last 24 hours so I guess he agrees wholeheartedly with their Jew-hating platform.

*facepalm*

The difference is that Trump had been saying things while campaigning that would appeal to people like David Duke.

Corbyn has not.

Quick Jeremy, hide all the comments you've made praising Hamas!

ffs...
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: Askold on June 08, 2017, 02:51:58 pm
The difference is that I don't think any reporter has asked Corbyn if he is going to denounce the Daily stormer article or if he has even heard that Nazis support him. Meanwhile Trump was told about Duke comment, Trump was asked if he would like to denounce Duke and he specifically refused to do so.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: dpareja on June 08, 2017, 02:59:18 pm
Quote from: TheContrarian on June 08, 2017, 02:47:45 pm
Quote from: dpareja on June 08, 2017, 02:41:31 pm
Quote from: TheContrarian on June 08, 2017, 02:38:56 pm
Quote from: pyro on June 08, 2017, 02:19:02 pm
Giving someone a medal doesn't make them above criticism.

Also doesn't matter if the criticism is true or not.  It's the association that counts.

Remember, Donald Trump was endorsed by a former wizard of the KKK and OMFG IT TOOK HIM A WHOLE DAY TO ISSUE A STATEMENT REJECTING SAID ENDORSEMENT!!!!one!

Well, Corbyn is now indelibly linked with Neonazi elements as of yesterday.  I...haven't seen any hint of a rejection from him in the last 24 hours so I guess he agrees wholeheartedly with their Jew-hating platform.

*facepalm*

The difference is that Trump had been saying things while campaigning that would appeal to people like David Duke.

Corbyn has not.

Quick Jeremy, hide all the comments you've made praising Hamas!

ffs...

"while campaigning"

Has Corbyn made any such statements since May 3?
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: TheContrarian on June 08, 2017, 03:02:20 pm
Quote from: dpareja on June 08, 2017, 02:59:18 pm
Quote from: TheContrarian on June 08, 2017, 02:47:45 pm
Quote from: dpareja on June 08, 2017, 02:41:31 pm
Quote from: TheContrarian on June 08, 2017, 02:38:56 pm
Quote from: pyro on June 08, 2017, 02:19:02 pm
Giving someone a medal doesn't make them above criticism.

Also doesn't matter if the criticism is true or not.  It's the association that counts.

Remember, Donald Trump was endorsed by a former wizard of the KKK and OMFG IT TOOK HIM A WHOLE DAY TO ISSUE A STATEMENT REJECTING SAID ENDORSEMENT!!!!one!

Well, Corbyn is now indelibly linked with Neonazi elements as of yesterday.  I...haven't seen any hint of a rejection from him in the last 24 hours so I guess he agrees wholeheartedly with their Jew-hating platform.

*facepalm*

The difference is that Trump had been saying things while campaigning that would appeal to people like David Duke.

Corbyn has not.

Quick Jeremy, hide all the comments you've made praising Hamas!

ffs...

"while campaigning"

Has Corbyn made any such statements since May 3?

So all the eleventy million articles during the US presidential campaign referencing pussy grabbing aren't admissable then because that tape was recorded over a decade before the 2016 presidential campaign began?

Good to know.  Not sure why you all kept parroting it to such a spasticated extent then...
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: dpareja on June 08, 2017, 03:11:04 pm
Quote from: TheContrarian on June 08, 2017, 03:02:20 pm
Quote from: dpareja on June 08, 2017, 02:59:18 pm
Quote from: TheContrarian on June 08, 2017, 02:47:45 pm
Quote from: dpareja on June 08, 2017, 02:41:31 pm
Quote from: TheContrarian on June 08, 2017, 02:38:56 pm
Quote from: pyro on June 08, 2017, 02:19:02 pm
Giving someone a medal doesn't make them above criticism.

Also doesn't matter if the criticism is true or not.  It's the association that counts.

Remember, Donald Trump was endorsed by a former wizard of the KKK and OMFG IT TOOK HIM A WHOLE DAY TO ISSUE A STATEMENT REJECTING SAID ENDORSEMENT!!!!one!

Well, Corbyn is now indelibly linked with Neonazi elements as of yesterday.  I...haven't seen any hint of a rejection from him in the last 24 hours so I guess he agrees wholeheartedly with their Jew-hating platform.

*facepalm*

The difference is that Trump had been saying things while campaigning that would appeal to people like David Duke.

Corbyn has not.

Quick Jeremy, hide all the comments you've made praising Hamas!

ffs...

"while campaigning"

Has Corbyn made any such statements since May 3?

So all the eleventy million articles during the US presidential campaign referencing pussy grabbing aren't admissable then because that tape was recorded over a decade before the 2016 presidential campaign began?

Good to know.  Not sure why you all kept parroting it to such a spasticated extent then...

Because Trump's behaviour in that regard had not showed any change--for instance, look at how often he all but said he wanted to have sex with Ivanka. It was pretty clear that that's still how he thought of women.

Show me current statements by Corbyn where he's clearly antisemitic (not anti-Israel, or anti-Israeli government, which are not the same as being antisemitic) and then, sure, we've got a history of that going back to those older statements.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: Askold on June 08, 2017, 03:13:36 pm
Might as well put this here because it is kinda relevant:

https://www.thecanary.co/2017/06/07/exclusive-police-reports-prove-sun-may-broken-law-last-ditch-attack-jeremy-corbyn/

TL;DR:

Corbyn did not take part in Antisemitic protest, the one he went to was about justice for Palestine and wasn't anti-Israel or anti-Jewish. Likewise the claim that he is linked to extremists is false and the Sun has actually broken a British law by making up lies about a campaigning politician.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: SCarpelan on June 08, 2017, 03:26:54 pm
About that Hamas/Hezbollah pandering: (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/01/jeremy-corbyn-under-pressure-to-denounce-friends-hamas-and-hezbo/)

Quote
"He [Corbyn] has met many people with whom he profoundly disagrees in order to promote peace and reconciliation processes, including in South Africa, Latin American, Ireland and the Middle East.

"He believes it is essential to speak to people with whom there is disagreement, particularly when they have large-scale support or democratic mandates.

"Simply talking to people who agree with you won’t help achieve justice or peace."

This reminds me of a comment by the Finnish parlamentarian Pekka Haavisto during his presidential campaign when he discussed his diplomatic career and involvement in the peace negotiations in southern Sudan. Paraphrased, he said that a big challenge in a situation like that is being able to to sit in the same table with a mass murdering warlord and treat them with the same respect you would give to any other human being. If you are not able to put your personal feelings aside there is no hope for successful negotiations and people will keep dying.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: TheContrarian on June 08, 2017, 03:32:26 pm
Quote from: dpareja on June 08, 2017, 03:11:04 pm
Quote from: TheContrarian on June 08, 2017, 03:02:20 pm
Quote from: dpareja on June 08, 2017, 02:59:18 pm
Quote from: TheContrarian on June 08, 2017, 02:47:45 pm
Quote from: dpareja on June 08, 2017, 02:41:31 pm
Quote from: TheContrarian on June 08, 2017, 02:38:56 pm
Quote from: pyro on June 08, 2017, 02:19:02 pm
Giving someone a medal doesn't make them above criticism.

Also doesn't matter if the criticism is true or not.  It's the association that counts.

Remember, Donald Trump was endorsed by a former wizard of the KKK and OMFG IT TOOK HIM A WHOLE DAY TO ISSUE A STATEMENT REJECTING SAID ENDORSEMENT!!!!one!

Well, Corbyn is now indelibly linked with Neonazi elements as of yesterday.  I...haven't seen any hint of a rejection from him in the last 24 hours so I guess he agrees wholeheartedly with their Jew-hating platform.

*facepalm*

The difference is that Trump had been saying things while campaigning that would appeal to people like David Duke.

Corbyn has not.

Quick Jeremy, hide all the comments you've made praising Hamas!

ffs...

"while campaigning"

Has Corbyn made any such statements since May 3?

So all the eleventy million articles during the US presidential campaign referencing pussy grabbing aren't admissable then because that tape was recorded over a decade before the 2016 presidential campaign began?

Good to know.  Not sure why you all kept parroting it to such a spasticated extent then...

Because Trump's behaviour in that regard had not showed any change--for instance, look at how often he all but said he wanted to have sex with Ivanka. It was pretty clear that that's still how he thought of women.

Show me current statements by Corbyn where he's clearly antisemitic (not anti-Israel, or anti-Israeli government, which are not the same as being antisemitic) and then, sure, we've got a history of that going back to those older statements.

You know, I swear I left a set of goalposts round here somewhere.

Oh no wait, there they are!  How did they get all the way over there?

So Corbyn's pro-Hamas, anti-Israel comments are inadmissable because they weren't made on the current campaign trail, but a single unsavoury soundbite of The Donald from 12 years ago definitely is because assumptions made about his character. 

You say Trump's behaviour towards women hasn't changed, fine.  By that token show me a statement where Comrade Corbyn repudiates his former pro-Hamas stance and criticises them for their antisemitism and i'll accept that he's changed :)
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: dpareja on June 08, 2017, 03:35:43 pm
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/jeremy-corbyn-says-he-regrets-calling-hamas-and-hezbollah-friends
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: TheContrarian on June 08, 2017, 03:44:05 pm
Quote from: dpareja on June 08, 2017, 03:35:43 pm
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/jeremy-corbyn-says-he-regrets-calling-hamas-and-hezbollah-friends

"With hindsight I should have picked slightly different wording".  Is the wording really the most offensive thing here?
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: dpareja on June 08, 2017, 03:51:15 pm
Quote from: TheContrarian on June 08, 2017, 03:44:05 pm
Quote from: dpareja on June 08, 2017, 03:35:43 pm
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/jeremy-corbyn-says-he-regrets-calling-hamas-and-hezbollah-friends

"With hindsight I should have picked slightly different wording".  Is the wording really the most offensive thing here?

When you're trying to broker a peace between Israel and Hamas/Hezbollah, you can't call them out because they're likely to just up and walk away from the table. You have to use diplomatic language.

If I were ever elected to Parliament, it would be as an NDP MP. If I were then to speak of a Conservative MP as my "friend," it would be in that diplomatic sense, not because I agree with him or her on (almost) anything, and probably not because we're personal friends despite our disagreements.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: Lt. Fred on June 08, 2017, 06:45:06 pm
This must be very difficult for the Contrarian. His party drove the country into recession and played footsie with the racist right to hold government - a decision that caused catastrophe. And now a resurgent firmly left-wing Labour has crushed them horribly in an election they arrogantly thought they had in the bag. The public doesn't want any more of his ignorant thieving bullshit any more. Thatcherism is dead. The public killed it at the ballot box. Everything he believes is wrong and has always been wrong.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on June 09, 2017, 03:54:53 am
Well, none of this seems to have hurt him in the election. Quite the result, eh Conty?

Moar salt pls.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: dpareja on June 09, 2017, 03:58:35 am
Quote from: Tolpuddle Martyr on June 09, 2017, 03:54:53 am
Well, none of this seems to have hurt him in the election. Quite the result, eh Conty?

Moar salt pls.

Eh, what'll probably end up happening is that the Tories form a government with either a formal coalition with the DUP or an informal working arrangement.

The big question is whether they'll commit regicide against May. ("The Tory Party is an absolute monarchy moderated by regicide.") They can turn on their leaders ferociously and viciously.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: Askold on June 09, 2017, 04:12:12 am
Could someone explain the results to me?

So the Conservatives still are the biggest party but not big enough to win every vote without help from the others and this is seen as a disaster?

Are all the other parties so opposed to them that they can't make a deal with them, maybe throw the occasional bone and keep on doing what they did before?
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on June 09, 2017, 05:07:48 am
Quote from: dpareja on June 09, 2017, 03:58:35 am
Quote from: Tolpuddle Martyr on June 09, 2017, 03:54:53 am
Well, none of this seems to have hurt him in the election. Quite the result, eh Conty?

Moar salt pls.

Eh, what'll probably end up happening is that the Tories form a government with either a formal coalition with the DUP or an informal working arrangement.

The big question is whether they'll commit regicide against May. ("The Tory Party is an absolute monarchy moderated by regicide.") They can turn on their leaders ferociously and viciously.
It's not a good result for Brexiters though, the DUP has only spoken in support of a "soft Brexit". They do not want to nuke the Good Friday agreement or have a hard border with Ireland. If the EU comes back and says it's hard Brexit or nothing it'll get very interesting.

Quote from: Askold on June 09, 2017, 04:12:12 am
Could someone explain the results to me?

So the Conservatives still are the biggest party but not big enough to win every vote without help from the others and this is seen as a disaster?

Are all the other parties so opposed to them that they can't make a deal with them, maybe throw the occasional bone and keep on doing what they did before?

A hung parliament means you get odd kingmakers because the person who holds the balance of power gets a lot of power relative to the number of seats they hold. Australia has had a couple. Which again, is why the DUP holding the Tories by the balls doesn't bode well for Brexit fans.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: Askold on June 09, 2017, 05:26:35 am
It's just that in Finland it is the norm that you have more than one party in the government and that they have to make compromises.

Sometimes a party will storm out and leave because they can't have their way or at least threaten to do so, usually it all works out though.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: Svata on June 09, 2017, 07:01:58 am
Compromise? In government? What's that?
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: The_Queen on June 09, 2017, 08:02:56 am
(click to show/hide)

My take on the Tories.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: Askold on June 09, 2017, 08:05:55 am
Quote from: The_Queen on June 09, 2017, 08:02:56 am
(click to show/hide)

My take on the Tories.

...But tell us how you really feel.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: Katsuro on June 10, 2017, 09:23:01 am
Quote from: The_Queen on June 09, 2017, 08:02:56 am
(click to show/hide)

My take on the Tories.

I think I love you.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: Kanzenkankaku on June 13, 2017, 04:53:51 am
Quote from: Svata on June 09, 2017, 07:01:58 am
Compromise? In government? What's that?

I think I read about that in a mythology book once. Right after the page on Unicorns.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: TheContrarian on June 16, 2017, 02:28:45 pm
Quote from: Lt. Fred on June 08, 2017, 06:45:06 pm
This must be very difficult for the Contrarian. His party drove the country into recession and played footsie with the racist right to hold government - a decision that caused catastrophe. And now a resurgent firmly left-wing Labour has crushed them horribly in an election they arrogantly thought they had in the bag. The public doesn't want any more of his ignorant thieving bullshit any more. Thatcherism is dead. The public killed it at the ballot box. Everything he believes is wrong and has always been wrong.

Who got crushed?  Last I heard Corbyn's Comrades were still in a distant second.

To pinch a comment I saw on another forum

Quote
1979 - Callaghan won 269 seats, he admitted defeat & resigned.
1992 - Kinnock won 271 seats, he admitted defeat & resigned.
2017 - Corbyn wins 262 seats, claims victory and orders the winner to resign.

But yeah don't let a pesky thing like reality get in the way of your marxist fervour.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: dpareja on June 16, 2017, 02:33:07 pm
1979: Callaghan lost 50 seats and the Prime Ministership, and Thatcher won a majority.

1992: Kinnock gained 42 seats, but was expected to win; instead John Major won a shock majority.

2017: Corbyn gained 30 seats even though he had been expected to be wiped out, and May was reduced from a majority to a minority.

EDIT:

1979: Labour received 36.9% of the popular vote to the Conservatives' 43.9%, a 7-point gap.

1992: Labour received 34.4% of the popular vote to the Conservatives' 41.9%, a 7.5-point gap.

2017: Labour received 40% of the popular vote to the Conservatives' 42.4%, a 2.4-point gap.

Further, a big factor that neither Callaghan nor Kinnock had to contend with, but Corbyn did, was the SNP. Labour majorities were often based on their winning most of the seats in Scotland, a task made much harder by the rise of the SNP in recent years, and this time even harder due to the Scottish Conservatives having a popular leader in Ruth Davidson. (As one SNP supporter noted, it really was true in a lot of ridings that "A vote for Labour is a vote for the Conservatives" because those ridings had become SNP-Conservative battlegrounds.)
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: TheContrarian on June 16, 2017, 05:50:28 pm
Quote from: dpareja on June 16, 2017, 02:33:07 pm
Further, a big factor that neither Callaghan nor Kinnock had to contend with, but Corbyn did, was the SNP

Except they weren't so much contending as colluding.  That's partly what makes it doubly funny.  You can add up all the seats gained by ALL the horrid little plebian parties combined and it's still not enough for a parliamentary majority.

Quite a victory you've got there ^_^

Oh but if the progressive response to the 2016 US election shows anything, it's that the realities of representative democracy mean nothing and we should just have a simple popular vote to decide such things (but conveniently only when our side loses, lol).  Well Jeremy Stalyn's party lost the popular vote here too.  So, unless you've all changed your tune to a hilariously hypocritical extent, he should wind his neck in and fuck off back to wherever the fuck he came from.

Or, he could just wander round posh areas of London threatening to expropriate private property again, that was pretty amusing.  Sordid little prole.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: The_Queen on June 16, 2017, 07:28:09 pm
Quote from: TheContrarian on June 16, 2017, 05:50:28 pm
Quote from: dpareja on June 16, 2017, 02:33:07 pm
Further, a big factor that neither Callaghan nor Kinnock had to contend with, but Corbyn did, was the SNP

Except they weren't so much contending as colluding.  That's partly what makes it doubly funny.  You can add up all the seats gained by ALL the horrid little plebian parties combined and it's still not enough for a parliamentary majority.

Quite a victory you've got there ^_^

Oh but if the progressive response to the 2016 US election shows anything, it's that the realities of representative democracy mean nothing and we should just have a simple popular vote to decide such things (but conveniently only when our side loses, lol).  Well Jeremy Stalyn's party lost the popular vote here too.  So, unless you've all changed your tune to a hilariously hypocritical extent, he should wind his neck in and fuck off back to wherever the fuck he came from.

Or, he could just wander round posh areas of London threatening to expropriate private property again, that was pretty amusing.  Sordid little prole.

1. I think a good argument can be made that Trump's presidency is illegitimate because he lost the popular vote. That said, I think the rules being known well in advance is more than adequate justification for him being our president. It's really not that different from the position I took in the democratic primary (http://forums.fstdt.net/index.php?topic=7076.msg291580#msg291580) (the rules being known in advance more than justifies the results, but winning the popular vote is a powerful argument).

2. The fact that the other parties did not get a majority (when combined) only serves to obfuscate the issue. The Conservative party started with 330 (a majority). May declared a snap election when her party was up 17 percentage points in the polls. She didn't do this because she wanted a majority (though, she did), she declared the election hoping to increase the number of Conservatives in parliament so that she could work out a Brexit plan that she favored. Her gambit failed, she lost 13 seats (which she could have kept by not declaring a snap election), and Labour gained 33 seats. You can spin it any way you want, but fact is she wanted more seats, and she wound up with less.

3. The result in the UK election should not be seen as an isolated event. Trump is making Europe liberal again (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trump-is-making-europe-liberal-again/). It's almost as if (a) seeing that right-wing populists can win scares people into voting against them and (b) Trump being a contemptuous wanker dissuades people from right-wing populism.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: TheContrarian on June 17, 2017, 03:16:31 am
Quote from: The_Queen on June 16, 2017, 07:28:09 pm
You can spin it any way you want, but fact is she wanted more seats, and she wound up with less.

Yes, you can spin it any way you want.  This is how you lot have managed to turn a party that got nowhere near a majority or even a plurality into the victors on the grounds that they "got more seats than last time".  By that logic we should should be putting that non-entity from the LibDems on a pedestal for turning things round after the 2015 hilarity...oh wait no lol (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/14/tim-farron-resigns-liberal-democrats-fresh-face-struggled-with-questions-over-his-christianity).

It's even more amusing when you think that this "glorious victory" for Jeremy Corbyn where the tories got absolutely "crushed" to use Lt Lenin's words is probably just going to result in a Tory government with some DUP hangers on.  The DUP being a party you lot are already SCREECHING about due to their old fashioned homophobia.

If that's what you call a victory for the progressive side, I think you may have a bit of a disconnect with reality.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: dpareja on June 17, 2017, 04:27:38 am
"Theresa May lost and Jeremy Corbyn didn't win."
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on June 17, 2017, 06:01:31 am
Quote from: TheContrarian on June 16, 2017, 02:28:45 pm
Last I heard Corbyn's Comrades were still in a distant second.
And last I heard that second was so not-distant that May was forced into an unwieldy alliance with the DUP!

But don't let reality get in the way of your Tory bloviating!
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: Askold on June 17, 2017, 06:07:04 am
Well, the Tories went from being able to run the government all by themselves to being forced to compromise to get the DUP to play team.

And seeing as even DUP opposes hard BREXIT (at least publicly) it may be that May has to settle for soft-BREXIT, aka "the same deal as the one Norway has."

And now that France mentioned that they would not oppose if Britain were to cancel BREXIT things are not so good for Tories.

If the Labour gets to the government before BREXIT is over the entire trainwreck may be canceled, meaning that all that came from it was Britain losing their face and a lot of tax payer money spent for nothing. If on the other hand Tories have to go for a soft-BREXIT Britain will have to pay the same taxes to EU that they have paid so far and obey all the laws and directives of EU with no official way to influence those laws.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: TheContrarian on June 17, 2017, 06:07:32 am
Quote from: Tolpuddle Martyr on June 17, 2017, 06:01:31 am
Quote from: TheContrarian on June 16, 2017, 02:28:45 pm
Last I heard Corbyn's Comrades were still in a distant second.
And last I heard that second was so not-distant that May was forced into an unwieldy alliance with the DUP!

But don't let reality get in the way of your Tory bloviating!

As above.  Glorious victory for left wing voters, having a coalition of the Tories and DUP in government.

But hey, I hope you enjoy Corbyn's victory as much as I will :)
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on June 17, 2017, 06:13:40 am
Quote from: TheContrarian on June 17, 2017, 06:07:32 am
Quote from: Tolpuddle Martyr on June 17, 2017, 06:01:31 am
Quote from: TheContrarian on June 16, 2017, 02:28:45 pm
Last I heard Corbyn's Comrades were still in a distant second.
And last I heard that second was so not-distant that May was forced into an unwieldy alliance with the DUP!

But don't let reality get in the way of your Tory bloviating!

As above.  Glorious victory for left wing voters, having a coalition of the Tories and DUP in government.

But hey, I hope you enjoy Corbyn's victory as much as I will :)
The DUP may be so socially conservative as to be actually fundie but they don't favor a hard Brexit (http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/815141/Election-2017-DUP-Theresa-May-Arlene-Foster-Brexit-coalition), or Tory economic austerity it seems. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/16/dup-promises-to-use-pact-with-conservatives-to-tone-down-austerity)

The most enjoyable part for me Conty? Your Thatcherite  policies are getting arsefucked by flag-waving sectarian fundies who parade around in bowler hats just like your avatar. Well, bowler hats are actually more British than stovepipes.

Oh and "Brexit lite" is, ""just like being in the EU-but without a say at the table". Cheerio!
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: The_Queen on June 17, 2017, 09:11:50 am
Quote from: TheContrarian on June 17, 2017, 03:16:31 am
Quote from: The_Queen on June 16, 2017, 07:28:09 pm
You can spin it any way you want, but fact is she wanted more seats, and she wound up with less.

Yes, you can spin it any way you want.  This is how you lot have managed to turn a party that got nowhere near a majority or even a plurality into the victors on the grounds that they "got more seats than last time".  By that logic we should should be putting that non-entity from the LibDems on a pedestal for turning things round after the 2015 hilarity...oh wait no lol (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/14/tim-farron-resigns-liberal-democrats-fresh-face-struggled-with-questions-over-his-christianity).

It's even more amusing when you think that this "glorious victory" for Jeremy Corbyn where the tories got absolutely "crushed" to use Lt Lenin's words is probably just going to result in a Tory government with some DUP hangers on.  The DUP being a party you lot are already SCREECHING about due to their old fashioned homophobia.

If that's what you call a victory for the progressive side, I think you may have a bit of a disconnect with reality.

Let me repeat and summarize. Theresa May called a snap election that she didn't have to when her party was up 17 points in the polls (to put this in perspective, the Tories won 330 seats, just over a majority. with a popular vote of 36.9-30.4 over Labour). Winning by anywhere nears 17 points would greatly improve her party's control of Parliament. But, over the course of several weeks, May bungled her party's lead in the polls, closing its lead to an average of 6.4% (a polling shift of 10.6%). Come election day, May's party further under-performed, winning only by 2.4% of the popular vote (a total shift of 14.6% over fifty days).

I repeat, she lost her party's majority, her main opposition gained seats, and all of that could have been avoided if she hadn't called a snap election or if she would manage to hang on to a 6.9% popular vote win with a head start of 17%. It's not that Corbyn and Labour "won," (although, they are the main beneficiaries of May's bungled gamble): it's that May made an obvious gamble that was safe, albeit unnecessary, and shit the bed in a way that left her party noticeably worse for wear.

But hey, continue crying because your glorious leader couldn't hold onto 330 seats. Salty much?
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: davedan on June 18, 2017, 07:03:42 pm
I think the quality of May's victory is to be gauged by the fact that she will not be Prime Minister at Christmas.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: dpareja on June 18, 2017, 07:35:35 pm
Quote from: davedan on June 18, 2017, 07:03:42 pm
I think the quality of May's victory is to be gauged by the fact that she will not be Prime Minister at Christmas.

Who succeeds her, though?

As near as I can tell, the only person who might be a reasonable successor to May is Davidson, and she is a) not interested, b) gay and c) getting married to her soon-to-be wife (those last two probably making her unacceptable to the DUP, with whom the Tories must work for the time being).
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on June 19, 2017, 03:28:38 am
Bit like working for the Trump cabinet or White House innit? On paper it's a top job. Off paper it stinks of career suicide.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: Askold on June 19, 2017, 03:56:42 am
Tol... Let's make a bet: You said that working for Trump administration will kill your career, I will mke the hypothesis that it won't.

The higher ups will simply backstab him at the last moment and that the y to wash  their hands, the less important people will just get "I worked at the White house" on their resume which is still a major deal. A few people may go to jail if there is a successful impeachment but I y will do their best to limit the damage to Trump.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on June 19, 2017, 06:16:32 am
Damn you Askold and your cold-hearted realism denying me my schadenfreude.

Well, I still have Conty's recent splutterfest about Marxian gremlins in this thread I guess.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: Lt. Fred on June 20, 2017, 02:59:14 am
Quote from: davedan on June 18, 2017, 07:03:42 pm
I think the quality of May's victory is to be gauged by the fact that she will not be Prime Minister at Christmas.

Yes, this is the clearest way of putting it. For all of Contrarian's spin, he wasn't smiling when he saw that exit poll. May now has all the blame for Brexit, which will be a failure. Labor has a popular leader and is a united party - if an election were called today, they'd win pretty firmly. That's not likely to change I don't think. There are only really two options for the Tories. They can keep May and all her problems. Or they can dump her and charge into the unknown in the middle of the most important negotiations in 50 years. And they're relying on Sinn Fein and the DUP not forcing the country to another election in the meantime. I don't see how they can recover.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: TheContrarian on June 21, 2017, 02:20:34 am
Quote from: dpareja on June 18, 2017, 07:35:35 pm
Quote from: davedan on June 18, 2017, 07:03:42 pm
I think the quality of May's victory is to be gauged by the fact that she will not be Prime Minister at Christmas.

Who succeeds her, though?

As near as I can tell, the only person who might be a reasonable successor to May is Davidson, and she is a) not interested, b) gay and c) getting married to her soon-to-be wife (those last two probably making her unacceptable to the DUP, with whom the Tories must work for the time being).

Oh it would be so funny if Ruth Davidson became PM.  It'd mean that the progressive parties of love and tolerance and inclusion and all that hippy dogshit had provided the nation with a sum total of 0 leaders from the "Women and other minorities"® category while the evil bigoted patriarchal tories would be on their third.  And an openly gay one to boot.  Since when have any of the shitty parties you lot vote for managed that eh?
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: dpareja on June 21, 2017, 02:59:08 am
Quote from: TheContrarian on June 21, 2017, 02:20:34 am
Quote from: dpareja on June 18, 2017, 07:35:35 pm
Quote from: davedan on June 18, 2017, 07:03:42 pm
I think the quality of May's victory is to be gauged by the fact that she will not be Prime Minister at Christmas.

Who succeeds her, though?

As near as I can tell, the only person who might be a reasonable successor to May is Davidson, and she is a) not interested, b) gay and c) getting married to her soon-to-be wife (those last two probably making her unacceptable to the DUP, with whom the Tories must work for the time being).

Oh it would be so funny if Ruth Davidson became PM.  It'd mean that the progressive parties of love and tolerance and inclusion and all that hippy dogshit had provided the nation with a sum total of 0 leaders from the "Women and other minorities"® category while the evil bigoted patriarchal tories would be on their third.  And an openly gay one to boot.  Since when have any of the shitty parties you lot vote for managed that eh?

I just quoted this in a discussion about the election on a forum with a number of SNP supporters. I am now waiting for the hilarity to ensue.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: Askold on June 21, 2017, 03:11:49 am
Let us know how it goes.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: The_Queen on June 21, 2017, 05:41:09 am
Quote from: Askold on June 21, 2017, 03:11:49 am
Let us know how it goes.

Same. Conty has been extra emotional this week, crying over and over about his Glorious Leader (TM) shitting the bed. He really needs to be put in his place.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: SCarpelan on June 21, 2017, 08:36:27 am
Quote from: TheContrarian on June 21, 2017, 02:20:34 am
Oh it would be so funny if Ruth Davidson became PM.  It'd mean that the progressive parties of love and tolerance and inclusion and all that hippy dogshit had provided the nation with a sum total of 0 leaders from the "Women and other minorities"® category while the evil bigoted patriarchal tories would be on their third.  And an openly gay one to boot.  Since when have any of the shitty parties you lot vote for managed that eh?

It's a well known fact that we liberal hippies are so simple minded and emotional that we can't fit more than one political issue into our heads. Pointing this situation would either turn any British leftist a Tory or make them too confused and ashamed to decide who to vote anymore. I'm shaking of fear thinking how this simple political trick would guarantee an endless, glorious Tory reign in Britain.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: dpareja on June 21, 2017, 12:00:09 pm
Quote from: The_Queen on June 21, 2017, 05:41:09 am
Quote from: Askold on June 21, 2017, 03:11:49 am
Let us know how it goes.

Same. Conty has been extra emotional this week, crying over and over about his Glorious Leader (TM) shitting the bed. He really needs to be put in his place.

It may not go anywhere. The discussion's currently on the acquittal of Yanez.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on June 22, 2017, 06:30:08 am
Conty's gotta take what he can get. Ruth's no fan of his beloved Brexit and a Tory alliance with her at the helm and the famously homophobic DUP would make the Tory shambles of the past year seem sensible and dignified by comparison but hey-he'd get to give himself a pat on the back on this forum by claiming the inclusiveness/diversity prize for the Conservative Party with all the self awareness and irony you would expect.

Gotta savor those small victories Contrarian!

Imagined and hypothetical though they may be...
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: dpareja on August 01, 2017, 02:17:28 am
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/28/momentum-video-jeremy-corbyn-labour-university-tuition

Ad by a pro-Corbyn group, which may have some amount of hypocrisy.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: Eiki-mun on August 01, 2017, 03:13:25 am
Quote from: dpareja on August 01, 2017, 02:17:28 am
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/28/momentum-video-jeremy-corbyn-labour-university-tuition

Ad by a pro-Corbyn group, which may have some amount of hypocrisy.

I don't see the problem with the ad. It looks like a great ad to me.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: dpareja on August 01, 2017, 03:41:59 am
Quote from: Eiki-mun on August 01, 2017, 03:13:25 am
Quote from: dpareja on August 01, 2017, 02:17:28 am
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/28/momentum-video-jeremy-corbyn-labour-university-tuition

Ad by a pro-Corbyn group, which may have some amount of hypocrisy.

I don't see the problem with the ad. It looks like a great ad to me.

Read the article. The alleged hypocrisy regards the nepotism part.
Title: Re: A Vote for Jeremy Corbyn is a vote against the Jew
Post by: Eiki-mun on August 01, 2017, 10:45:38 am
Quote from: dpareja on August 01, 2017, 03:41:59 am
Quote from: Eiki-mun on August 01, 2017, 03:13:25 am
Quote from: dpareja on August 01, 2017, 02:17:28 am
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/28/momentum-video-jeremy-corbyn-labour-university-tuition

Ad by a pro-Corbyn group, which may have some amount of hypocrisy.

I don't see the problem with the ad. It looks like a great ad to me.

Read the article. The alleged hypocrisy regards the nepotism part.

Except that the ad never claims a problem with nepotism itself, and not should it. Nepotism in private circles is inevitable - what's hypocritical about the person in the ad is not that he was helped to get a job by his father, but that he got that help and then refuses to recognize that he got it. If Corbyn's son recognizes that nepotism played a factor in his job, then there's no hypocrisy in the ad, and we don't know how he feels about that particular issue, so we really can't make any judgements on his beliefs, can we?