Author Topic: Newt Gingrich Compares Gay Marriage to Paganism  (Read 18790 times)

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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Newt Gingrich Compares Gay Marriage to Paganism
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2012, 10:25:48 am »
Neither have I, for that matter. What exactly is an atheist Pagan?
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Offline Vene

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Re: Newt Gingrich Compares Gay Marriage to Paganism
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2012, 01:06:58 pm »
Neither have I, for that matter. What exactly is an atheist Pagan?
Some possibilities I can think of:
1) A religion that doesn't have a god, such as Taoism.
2) "I'm not religious, I'm spiritual."
3) Somebody who plays with the mythology, but doesn't actually believe in it (as in, not an actual pagan).

I also think things like this qualify as harmful paganism. Alt med isn't real medicine and it hurts and even kills people needlessly. Even those who try to hide their bullshit by calling it "complimentary" are harmful for pushing snake oil as if it can actually do something. There's also the issue that, like all religions, paganism does not have a method for determining the veracity of a claim (which is evidenced by the fact that there are pagan groups who hold mutually exclusive beliefs). When you can't do this, you don't know if you are operating under the constraints of reality or if you're indulging in wishful thinking. And when you believe in false things, harm necessarily follows.

Offline Thejebusfire

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Re: Newt Gingrich Compares Gay Marriage to Paganism
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2012, 02:29:16 pm »
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It's pretty simple: marriage is between a man and a woman. This is a historic doctrine driven deep into the Bible, both in the Old Testament and in the New Testament...

Abraham, Gideon, Soloman, and David had more than one wife. If you had actually bothered to read the bible you would have known that.

Offline Captain Jack Harkness

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Re: Newt Gingrich Compares Gay Marriage to Paganism
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2012, 03:46:22 pm »
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It's pretty simple: marriage is between a man and a woman. This is a historic doctrine driven deep into the Bible, both in the Old Testament and in the New Testament...

Abraham, Gideon, Soloman, and David had more than one wife. If you had actually bothered to read the bible you would have known that.

Oh you know ol' Newt (and most Christian's) stance on the Bible!

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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Newt Gingrich Compares Gay Marriage to Paganism
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2012, 06:14:07 pm »
Neither have I, for that matter. What exactly is an atheist Pagan?
Some possibilities I can think of:
1) A religion that doesn't have a god, such as Taoism.
2) "I'm not religious, I'm spiritual."
3) Somebody who plays with the mythology, but doesn't actually believe in it (as in, not an actual pagan).

I also think things like this qualify as harmful paganism. Alt med isn't real medicine and it hurts and even kills people needlessly. Even those who try to hide their bullshit by calling it "complimentary" are harmful for pushing snake oil as if it can actually do something. There's also the issue that, like all religions, paganism does not have a method for determining the veracity of a claim (which is evidenced by the fact that there are pagan groups who hold mutually exclusive beliefs). When you can't do this, you don't know if you are operating under the constraints of reality or if you're indulging in wishful thinking. And when you believe in false things, harm necessarily follows.

...Every pagan I've run into who practices any sort of mystical healing flat-out encourages going to doctors and getting medication for everything.  Doesn't mean there aren't pagans like the ones you're talking about, but it does mean I think they're not in nearly the same amount of percentage of Christians who practice prayer-healing.

It's generally not alt medicine, it's more like additional "medicine".
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Offline Vene

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Re: Newt Gingrich Compares Gay Marriage to Paganism
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2012, 06:49:46 pm »
I addressed that when I mentioned complimentary "medicine." No, I cannot bring myself to call that brand of bullshit medicine, not when people are given herbs that interfere with real meds.

Offline TheL

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Re: Newt Gingrich Compares Gay Marriage to Paganism
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2012, 09:07:11 am »
...Every pagan I've run into who practices any sort of mystical healing flat-out encourages going to doctors and getting medication for everything.  Doesn't mean there aren't pagans like the ones you're talking about, but it does mean I think they're not in nearly the same amount of percentage of Christians who practice prayer-healing.

It's generally not alt medicine, it's more like additional "medicine".

Yeah, but by the same token, healing spells never claim to be a cure anyway (unless the person making the claim is trying to screw you out of your money). They are "send good energy to speed the healing!"

Also, most healing spells don't involve ingesting hazardous substances.  At worst, they are a placebo.

And I fully agree with Vene that you shouldn't go around taking herbs unless you've double-checked with a licensed doctor that you're not doing yourself harm by doing so.  There's a big difference between "I will burn this incense!" and "I will eat this green stuff!" and if you're not paying attention, you can do yourself harm.  This is also why I'm a huge fan of Cunningham's Encyclopedia of Magickal Herbs--it clearly states that you should consult a medical professional before ingesting anything*, which herbs are never safe to ingest, which should be kept away from children, which should be diluted in teas rather than directly eaten, etc.

* "Herb magic" includes a lot of different things: direct ingestion (raw or cooked), tea infusion, burning as incense, use as ointment (on the self or on objects), offerings to deities--basically, if you can do it with leaves, it's been done as a form of herb magic by someone, with something.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 09:16:00 am by TheL »
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Offline Vene

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Re: Newt Gingrich Compares Gay Marriage to Paganism
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2012, 12:33:57 pm »
Apparently magic is chemistry. I guess I study life magic.

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Re: Newt Gingrich Compares Gay Marriage to Paganism
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2012, 02:39:48 pm »
Neither have I, for that matter. What exactly is an atheist Pagan?

An atheist who takes inspiration from pagan myths and gods, but doesn't actually believe in them.
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

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Re: Newt Gingrich Compares Gay Marriage to Paganism
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2012, 09:09:13 pm »
Neither have I, for that matter. What exactly is an atheist Pagan?

An atheist who takes inspiration from pagan myths and gods, but doesn't actually believe in them.

I don't get this.

Can you also be an Atheist Christian?
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Offline Osama bin Bambi

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Re: Newt Gingrich Compares Gay Marriage to Paganism
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2012, 09:11:09 pm »
Neither have I, for that matter. What exactly is an atheist Pagan?

An atheist who takes inspiration from pagan myths and gods, but doesn't actually believe in them.

I don't get this.

Can you also be an Atheist Christian?

I guess you can, if you believe in the teachings of Christ (and ascribe those teachings to him), but don't actually believe in his divinity.

There are atheist Jews who believe in Jewish teachings even though they don't believe in God.
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Offline Vene

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Re: Newt Gingrich Compares Gay Marriage to Paganism
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2012, 09:16:40 pm »
Neither have I, for that matter. What exactly is an atheist Pagan?

An atheist who takes inspiration from pagan myths and gods, but doesn't actually believe in them.

I don't get this.

Can you also be an Atheist Christian?

I guess you can, if you believe in the teachings of Christ (and ascribe those teachings to him), but don't actually believe in his divinity.

There are atheist Jews who believe in Jewish teachings even though they don't believe in God.
Judaism is a bad example because it's both a religion and an ethnicity.

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Re: Newt Gingrich Compares Gay Marriage to Paganism
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2012, 10:05:20 pm »
Neither have I, for that matter. What exactly is an atheist Pagan?

An atheist who takes inspiration from pagan myths and gods, but doesn't actually believe in them.

I don't get this.

Can you also be an Atheist Christian?

I guess you can, if you believe in the teachings of Christ (and ascribe those teachings to him), but don't actually believe in his divinity.

There are atheist Jews who believe in Jewish teachings even though they don't believe in God.

I don't see that working in practise, since the lion's share of Christ's supposed teachings are related to worshipping God.

Offline Captain Jack Harkness

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Re: Newt Gingrich Compares Gay Marriage to Paganism
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2012, 11:16:12 pm »
Neither have I, for that matter. What exactly is an atheist Pagan?

An atheist who takes inspiration from pagan myths and gods, but doesn't actually believe in them.

I don't get this.

Can you also be an Atheist Christian?

I guess you can, if you believe in the teachings of Christ (and ascribe those teachings to him), but don't actually believe in his divinity.

There are atheist Jews who believe in Jewish teachings even though they don't believe in God.

I don't see that working in practise, since the lion's share of Christ's supposed teachings are related to worshipping God.

It's like being a regular Christian, but with even more cherry picking!  That's how I imagine it, at least.  Then again, why associate with Christianity at all just because you happen to agree with some things in it?
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Offline Mechtaur

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Re: Newt Gingrich Compares Gay Marriage to Paganism
« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2012, 12:02:12 am »
Vene had it about right with his post.

An atheist... Whatever, would be someone who follows the philosophy of the religion, but doesn't necessarily follow the ritualistic and afterlife aspects of the faith.

Basically, an atheist Christian would be someone who follows the philosophy of Jesusism (Google it), but doesn't believe in the afterlife and theistic qualities.