Author Topic: Funny/Stupid Videos  (Read 82407 times)

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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Funny/Stupid Videos
« Reply #225 on: October 02, 2015, 12:19:56 am »
Come back when you have actual evidence against God's existence.  You say God's not real, now back it up.
Seriously? Come on now, even you should know better. Burden of proof is on the positive claim. If you say something does exist, it's up to you to prove it, not up to everyone else to disprove it. This is extremely basic logic, here.

Nothing was said about God's existence until you brought it up.  A negative claim is still a claim.

In other words, atheists aren't inherently more rational.  I'll remember that for later.
More or less correct. However, atheism itself is indeed inherently more rational than theism. Just because people have ample opportunities outside of theism to believe in nonsense doesn't change this. To suggest otherwise is a textbook ad hom.

"Atheism is inherently more rational."

And you wonder why atheists are stereotyped as smug and condescending.  Fact is, plenty of rational people are theists, and plenty of irrational people are atheists.  Neither side can seriously claim superiority when it comes to rationality.

Furthermore, not everybody is an atheist for rational reasons.  There are many, many people who become atheists because of emotional reasons, because of some ideology, or just because religion doesn't speak to them.

Fine.  You can question my beliefs all you want.  But implying that I'm somehow inferior simply for believing in God is another matter entirely.
Would you say that willfully believing in nonsense makes you inferiour? Because if so, that's really not my problem.

Yet again, we see you making a claim without any evidence to back it up.  Like it or not, saying religion is nonsense is a claim.  You're the one making the claims here, so you're the one who has to back them up.

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Re: Funny/Stupid Videos
« Reply #226 on: October 02, 2015, 12:54:55 am »
Nothing was said about God's existence until you brought it up.  A negative claim is still a claim.
I said there's no evidence for god's existence, and therefore believing in it is nonsense. That's how it works. When it comes to assessing whether or not something exists, you don't need negative proof, you just need a lack of positive proof. It's why we don't take the idea of a teapot orbiting the sun somewhere between Jupiter and Saturn, or invisible pink unicorns running around seriously. The fact that god somehow deserves special privilege in your book in that in this one specific case, it's suddenly up to nonbelievers to prove that it's irrational and not the other way around is exactly the kind of bullshit that I mentioned in my earlier post.

Really now, by your logic, I could claim that I am King of the Space Fairies, a race of wizard goblins who live on Mars, and as long as you bring up how fucking stupid that is first, then suddenly magical space wizards is the default and it's now up to you to disprove it, rather than on me to prove it.
"Atheism is inherently more rational."

And you wonder why atheists are stereotyped as smug and condescending.
Irrelevant.
Fact is, plenty of rational people are theists, and plenty of irrational people are atheists.  Neither side can seriously claim superiority when it comes to rationality.

Furthermore, not everybody is an atheist for rational reasons.  There are many, many people who become atheists because of emotional reasons, because of some ideology, or just because religion doesn't speak to them.
I said atheism, as in the idea itself, is more rational than theism, not that an individual being atheist is necessarily proof that they're a rational person. Of course, whether individual atheists are overall rational people is irrelevant to that point, and to say otherwise is a textbook ad hom. It's on the same level as people who say "vegetarianism is bad because Hitler was a vegetarian".

That said, though, theism is, at the very least, strong evidence that someone is not rational. In much the same way as your example of an atheist who believes in ghosts or a non-theistic religion.
Yet again, we see you making a claim without any evidence to back it up.  Like it or not, saying religion is nonsense is a claim.  You're the one making the claims here, so you're the one who has to back them up.
Nope. "God exists" is not the default. Who mentions it first is irrelevant.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Funny/Stupid Videos
« Reply #227 on: October 02, 2015, 01:21:13 am »
Nothing was said about God's existence until you brought it up.  A negative claim is still a claim.
I said there's no evidence for god's existence, and therefore believing in it is nonsense. That's how it works. When it comes to assessing whether or not something exists, you don't need negative proof, you just need a lack of positive proof. It's why we don't take the idea of a teapot orbiting the sun somewhere between Jupiter and Saturn, or invisible pink unicorns running around seriously. The fact that god somehow deserves special privilege in your book in that in this one specific case, it's suddenly up to nonbelievers to prove that it's irrational and not the other way around is exactly the kind of bullshit that I mentioned in my earlier post.

Really now, by your logic, I could claim that I am King of the Space Fairies, a race of wizard goblins who live on Mars, and as long as you bring up how fucking stupid that is first, then suddenly magical space wizards is the default and it's now up to you to disprove it, rather than on me to prove it.

The difference is that I have actual evidence that you are not, in fact, King of the Space Fairies.

Fact is, plenty of rational people are theists, and plenty of irrational people are atheists.  Neither side can seriously claim superiority when it comes to rationality.

Furthermore, not everybody is an atheist for rational reasons.  There are many, many people who become atheists because of emotional reasons, because of some ideology, or just because religion doesn't speak to them.
I said atheism, as in the idea itself, is more rational than theism, not that an individual being atheist is necessarily proof that they're a rational person. Of course, whether individual atheists are overall rational people is irrelevant to that point, and to say otherwise is a textbook ad hom. It's on the same level as people who say "vegetarianism is bad because Hitler was a vegetarian".

That said, though, theism is, at the very least, strong evidence that someone is not rational. In much the same way as your example of an atheist who believes in ghosts or a non-theistic religion.

Okay, so you're a bigot.  You might as well claim that bisexuality is strong evidence that somebody's a pervert.  Moreover, dismissing literally billions of people as "irrational" simply because of their faith is itself irrational.

Furthermore, it's not ad hominem to question whether atheism is inherently more rational.  I thought atheists were supposed to be skeptics.

Yet again, we see you making a claim without any evidence to back it up.  Like it or not, saying religion is nonsense is a claim.  You're the one making the claims here, so you're the one who has to back them up.
Nope. "God exists" is not the default. Who mentions it first is irrelevant.

No, it isn't.  You made a claim, you need to back it up.  Simple as that.  If you were merely doubting the existence of God, I wouldn't be pointing it out.  But since you're making actual claims, I'm asking you to stand behind them, rather than retreating to your "I don't need to prove anything" motte.

Your constant claims that "atheists don't need to prove anything" when you keep making all these bold claims are a prime example of the same type of double standard you accuse theists of having.  Just like how you keep talking about ad hominem while simultaneously implying I'm mentally defective.  It seems to me that you're being hypocritical.  Or are you just afraid of having to back up your claims?

Offline Svata

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Re: Funny/Stupid Videos
« Reply #228 on: October 02, 2015, 01:30:02 am »
Nothing was said about God's existence until you brought it up.  A negative claim is still a claim.
I said there's no evidence for god's existence, and therefore believing in it is nonsense. That's how it works. When it comes to assessing whether or not something exists, you don't need negative proof, you just need a lack of positive proof. It's why we don't take the idea of a teapot orbiting the sun somewhere between Jupiter and Saturn, or invisible pink unicorns running around seriously. The fact that god somehow deserves special privilege in your book in that in this one specific case, it's suddenly up to nonbelievers to prove that it's irrational and not the other way around is exactly the kind of bullshit that I mentioned in my earlier post.

Really now, by your logic, I could claim that I am King of the Space Fairies, a race of wizard goblins who live on Mars, and as long as you bring up how fucking stupid that is first, then suddenly magical space wizards is the default and it's now up to you to disprove it, rather than on me to prove it.

The difference is that I have actual evidence that you are not, in fact, King of the Space Fairies.

Oh? Who is, then? You?

Quote from: Paladin Guy
Fact is, plenty of rational people are theists, and plenty of irrational people are atheists.  Neither side can seriously claim superiority when it comes to rationality.

Furthermore, not everybody is an atheist for rational reasons.  There are many, many people who become atheists because of emotional reasons, because of some ideology, or just because religion doesn't speak to them.
I said atheism, as in the idea itself, is more rational than theism, not that an individual being atheist is necessarily proof that they're a rational person. Of course, whether individual atheists are overall rational people is irrelevant to that point, and to say otherwise is a textbook ad hom. It's on the same level as people who say "vegetarianism is bad because Hitler was a vegetarian".

That said, though, theism is, at the very least, strong evidence that someone is not rational. In much the same way as your example of an atheist who believes in ghosts or a non-theistic religion.

Okay, so you're a bigot.  You might as well claim that bisexuality is strong evidence that somebody's a pervert.  Moreover, dismissing literally billions of people as "irrational" simply because of their faith is itself irrational.

Furthermore, it's not ad hominem to question whether atheism is inherently more rational.  I thought atheists were supposed to be skeptics.

He never said atheists were more rational. Merely that, atheism, as a concept, is more rational than theism. There is a difference.


Quote from: Tyr
Yet again, we see you making a claim without any evidence to back it up.  Like it or not, saying religion is nonsense is a claim.  You're the one making the claims here, so you're the one who has to back them up.
Nope. "God exists" is not the default. Who mentions it first is irrelevant.

No, it isn't.  You made a claim, you need to back it up.  Simple as that.  If you were merely doubting the existence of God, I wouldn't be pointing it out.  But since you're making actual claims, I'm asking you to stand behind them, rather than retreating to your "I don't need to prove anything" motte.

Your constant claims that "atheists don't need to prove anything" when you keep making all these bold claims are a prime example of the same type of double standard you accuse theists of having.  Just like how you keep talking about ad hominem while simultaneously implying I'm mentally defective.  It seems to me that you're being hypocritical.  Or are you just afraid of having to back up your claims?


Er, you (generally) can't prove negatives, UP. 'S why burden of proof is on positive claims. If I were to claim there aren't invisible, intangible elephants hiding in my closet, would I need to prove it, or would it be accepted at face value? What if I claimed there were? Do you see the difference in the two situations? (I swear I'm not trying to be snide or facetious, I honestly want to know. Also, sorry for the non-linky quote-bits, I just inserted ends and beginnings manually. Vita posting, and I didn't wanna type that whole line out twice. As fkr me screwing with your name, well, I'm bored, lazy, and its 1:30 in the fuckin morning here. Sorry.)
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 01:33:28 am by Svata »
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Re: Funny/Stupid Videos
« Reply #229 on: October 02, 2015, 02:03:23 am »
The difference is that I have actual evidence that you are not, in fact, King of the Space Fairies.
Go on then, let's hear it.
Okay, so you're a bigot.  You might as well claim that bisexuality is strong evidence that somebody's a pervert.  Moreover, dismissing literally billions of people as "irrational" simply because of their faith is itself irrational.

Furthermore, it's not ad hominem to question whether atheism is inherently more rational.  I thought atheists were supposed to be skeptics.
What Svata said. I was talking about the idea itself. Blind faith in a magical sky fairy based on a loose anthology of bronze age myths is inherently less rational than not having blind faith in a magical sky fairy based on a loose anthology of bronze age myths. Other beliefs and behaviour of people who believe in either is irrelevant.
No, it isn't.  You made a claim, you need to back it up.  Simple as that.  If you were merely doubting the existence of God, I wouldn't be pointing it out.  But since you're making actual claims, I'm asking you to stand behind them, rather than retreating to your "I don't need to prove anything" motte.

Your constant claims that "atheists don't need to prove anything" when you keep making all these bold claims are a prime example of the same type of double standard you accuse theists of having.  Just like how you keep talking about ad hominem while simultaneously implying I'm mentally defective.  It seems to me that you're being hypocritical.  Or are you just afraid of having to back up your claims?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof
Quote from: Wikipedia
When two parties are in a discussion and one affirms a claim that the other disputes, the one who affirms has a burden of proof to justify or substantiate that claim. An argument from ignorance occurs when either a proposition is assumed to be true because it has not yet been proved false or a proposition is assumed to be false because it has not yet been proved true.
Quote from: Wikipedia
A negative claim is a colloquialism for an affirmed claim that asserts the non-existence or exclusion of something. There are many proofs that substantiate negative claims in mathematics, science, and economics including Arrow's impossibility theorem.

A negative claim may exist as a counter point to a previous claim. A proof of impossibility or an evidence of absence argument are typical methods to fulfil the burden of proof for a negative claim.
I strongly recommend you read up on how burden of proof works. Arguing about things you clearly don't understand isn't exactly the best way to help your case. Come back when you understand why burden of proof is on the positive claim, rather than who brought it up first.

Also, if you're offended with me pointing out that something you believe in is irrational, again, that's your problem. Christians acting like they're entitled to validation from everyone else is exactly the kind of bullshit I was talking about.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 08:49:33 am by Art Vandelay »

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Re: Funny/Stupid Videos
« Reply #230 on: October 02, 2015, 09:17:01 am »
Anyway, we should probably get this back on track. We can continue this in Preaching and Worship, if you so desire.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU6WC4dpaHM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU6WC4dpaHM</a>
Oh, mobile gaming. Only Steam Greenlight even comes close in both quality and quantity of shovelware.

Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Funny/Stupid Videos
« Reply #231 on: October 02, 2015, 10:32:59 am »
Makes me feel good about myself, though.  I mean, if this kind of shit can get a few dollars, then something I make, which would have actual, appreciable quality, would make at least a few dollars more.
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Offline TheL

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Re: Funny/Stupid Videos
« Reply #232 on: October 02, 2015, 11:32:38 am »
False equivalence.  God is metaphysical, unlike Bigfoot or ghosts.
That is irrelevant. It's still a case of believing in something in spite of a lack of evidence. Without evidence, it's all equally bullshit, "metaphysical" or not.

Come back when you have actual evidence against God's existence.  You say God's not real, now back it up.

Speaking of ghosts, there are a surprising number of atheists who believe in them.  How that works, I have no clue.
Atheism is just no belief in gods. Someone can believe in woo and still qualify as atheist, as long as the woo they believe in isn't god(s).

In other words, atheists aren't inherently more rational.  I'll remember that for later.

Moreover, do you really think being pointlessly dickish to religious people is going to make atheism more popular?
No, but that's what what I'm going for. I'm more interested in removing the expectation that everyone else has to validate their beliefs.

Fine.  You can question my beliefs all you want.  But implying that I'm somehow inferior simply for believing in God is another matter entirely.

Alternatively:  prove UP's god exists, and that my gods don't, at the same time.  Because that's basically what he's arguing.  ;)
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Offline ironbite

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Re: Funny/Stupid Videos
« Reply #233 on: October 02, 2015, 11:46:47 am »
Have I mentioned how much I love this board sometimes?

Offline TheL

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Re: Funny/Stupid Videos
« Reply #234 on: October 02, 2015, 11:57:58 am »
Have I mentioned how much I love this board sometimes?

I'm just laughing at UP's apparent assumption that I'm a fellow Christian.  Bast knows I needed the laugh.

Have a video about church.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-4itnOt2Ig" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-4itnOt2Ig</a>

The artist is pretty cool, but also seems to be into a bit of woo.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 12:17:16 pm by TheL »
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Funny/Stupid Videos
« Reply #235 on: October 02, 2015, 02:02:41 pm »
Have I mentioned how much I love this board sometimes?

I'm just laughing at UP's apparent assumption that I'm a fellow Christian.  Bast knows I needed the laugh.

Have a video about church.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-4itnOt2Ig" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-4itnOt2Ig</a>

The artist is pretty cool, but also seems to be into a bit of woo.

I never assumed you were a Christian.  But I didn't know you were Kemetic.

Offline Ghoti

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Re: Funny/Stupid Videos
« Reply #236 on: October 02, 2015, 10:52:02 pm »
........anyway:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRGoN9uSL6E" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRGoN9uSL6E</a>
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Funny/Stupid Videos
« Reply #237 on: October 02, 2015, 10:54:59 pm »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBYZNpRqAXI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBYZNpRqAXI</a>

Offline TheL

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Re: Funny/Stupid Videos
« Reply #238 on: October 03, 2015, 09:39:11 pm »
Have I mentioned how much I love this board sometimes?

I'm just laughing at UP's apparent assumption that I'm a fellow Christian.  Bast knows I needed the laugh.

Have a video about church.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-4itnOt2Ig" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-4itnOt2Ig</a>

The artist is pretty cool, but also seems to be into a bit of woo.

I never assumed you were a Christian.  But I didn't know you were Kemetic.

Nope.  Eclectic.
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Offline TheL

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Re: Funny/Stupid Videos
« Reply #239 on: October 06, 2015, 03:37:58 pm »
Any Les Mis fans out there?  Because here's a great parody, about how hard it is to find gluten-free vegan food that actually TASTES LIKE FOOD.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9QbC41oQRo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9QbC41oQRo</a>
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