Author Topic: The "Faith" Arguement.  (Read 11767 times)

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Offline rageaholic

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The "Faith" Arguement.
« on: April 09, 2014, 11:34:12 pm »
Fundies (or even moderately religious folk) often argue that if there were proof that God existed, we wouldn't need faith. 

Umm.... yeah?  And not needing faith is a bad thing... why??????????   

When you consider that these are often the same folks who claim absolute truth, it's funny that they hide behind the "you need to have faith" bullshit. 

Offline I am lizard

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Re: The "Faith" Arguement.
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2014, 11:52:40 pm »
Fundies (or even moderately religious folk) often argue that if there were proof that God existed, we wouldn't need faith. 

Umm.... yeah?  And not needing faith is a bad thing... why??????????   

When you consider that these are often the same folks who claim absolute truth, it's funny that they hide behind the "you need to have faith" bullshit.
To be fair everything requires done faith, for instance you foolishly believe I we are humans and not space aliens trying to steel your brain for experimentation.

Offline Ironchew

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Re: The "Faith" Arguement.
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2014, 11:54:52 pm »
It wasn't too long ago (and still the case today in denial of evolution, deep time, and anthropogenic global warming) that religious apologists dismissed science wholesale as a method of learning about nature because science makes very practical assumptions such as materialism that completely fly in the face of supernatural bullshit. Of course, science has proven to be a very successful and ultimately self-correcting method of gaining knowledge and the influence of religion in "the big questions" is steadily and very deservedly shrinking.

Religious apologists know they can't dismiss science any longer, so they would prefer to dismiss reality instead and tacitly admit that faith is the virtue of never questioning or testing dogma. It's simply the evolution of a con game where the con artist prefers to rely on emotional hooks to string the victim along.

To be fair everything requires done faith, for instance you foolishly believe I we are humans and not space aliens trying to steel your brain for experimentation.

What I mean by faith is a belief in something extraordinary without good evidence.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 11:58:03 pm by Ironchew »
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Offline I am lizard

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Re: The "Faith" Arguement.
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2014, 12:01:20 am »
It wasn't too long ago (and still the case today in denial of evolution, deep time, and anthropogenic global warming) that religious apologists dismissed science wholesale as a method of learning about nature because science makes very practical assumptions such as materialism that completely fly in the face of supernatural bullshit. Of course, science has proven to be a very successful and ultimately self-correcting method of gaining knowledge and the influence of religion in "the big questions" is steadily and very deservedly shrinking.

Religious apologists know they can't dismiss science any longer, so they would prefer to dismiss reality instead and tacitly admit that faith is the virtue of never questioning or testing dogma. It's simply the evolution of a con game where the con artist prefers to rely on emotional hooks to string the victim along.

To be fair everything requires done faith, for instance you foolishly believe I we are humans and not space aliens trying to steel your brain for experimentation.

What I mean by faith is a belief in something without good evidence.
Yeah, I know what you mean, sure there COULD be invisible Nic Cages floating around me but there is know real reason to believe they exist.


Note: No that wasn't a take-that to religion, just pointing out the basic principal of belief in general.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 10:36:06 am by I am lizard »

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Re: The "Faith" Arguement.
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2014, 12:04:35 am »
Fundies (or even moderately religious folk) often argue that if there were proof that God existed, we wouldn't need faith. 

Umm.... yeah?  And not needing faith is a bad thing... why??????????   

When you consider that these are often the same folks who claim absolute truth, it's funny that they hide behind the "you need to have faith" bullshit.
To be fair everything requires done faith, for instance you foolishly believe I we are humans and not space aliens trying to steel your brain for experimentation.
I suppose we all should iron out the flaws in our world views.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: The "Faith" Arguement.
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2014, 07:53:54 am »
I'm a Christian, so let me try to answer this.

"The heart knows its own bitterness, and a stranger does not share its joy." - Proverbs 14:10

All relationships are dependent on faith.  After all, we can never fully understand another person, so some degree of trust is a requirement.  I see no difference between trusting God to answer my prayers and trusting my wife not to cheat on me.

If we cannot know our finite fellow human beings fully, how can we be expected to know God?  Only after we have died and gone to heaven can we even begin to truly comprehend Him.

During the Exodus, God repeatedly aided the Israelites.  And yet, for all these demonstrations of His love, guidance, and power, they still betrayed Him, first by worshipping a gold calf, then by refusing to trust Him to keep them safe from the Canaanites.

The Bible also speaks of a time when Jesus will rule the Earth from Jerusalem for 1,000 years.  He will rule with great justice and righteousness, yet at the end of the millennium, Satan will have no trouble raising an army in rebellion against Christ's rule.  The problem is not with God, but with humanity.

Offline Canadian Mojo

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Re: The "Faith" Arguement.
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2014, 11:27:48 am »
The Bible also speaks of a time when Jesus will rule the Earth from Jerusalem for 1,000 years.  He will rule with great justice and righteousness, yet at the end of the millennium, Satan will have no trouble raising an army in rebellion against Christ's rule.  The problem is not with God, but with humanity.

And the reason it can't be a problem with God would be?

If Satan can amass an army after a thousand years of godly rule, and everybody who joins it knows how it is going to play out, there has got to be something very wrong in paradise. It's not like you can even claim that they will be disbelievers since there will be definitive proof sitting on the throne for all to see. The ranks of Satan's army will be filled with believers who see their deaths as preferable to the alternative.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: The "Faith" Arguement.
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2014, 11:46:11 am »
I'm not entirely sure.  Maybe Satan deceives them somehow.

Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: The "Faith" Arguement.
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2014, 11:54:01 am »
The question is, why does the Almighty fucking bother with that shit, anyway?  If he knows all things, he already knows how its going to play out.  "All-knowing" implies that he can literally see the future with unerring accuracy, ergo, he'd know the outcome of his own pointless war.  His ways are inefficient at the best of times, and are more often than not breath-takingly cruel.  Though, at least that part makes sense considering Yahweh was basically the Jew version of Ares, back in the day, and only became the "one god" because of a few devoted followers and dumb luck.  It doesn't excuse the fact, though, that the Abrahamic god is a cruel, genocidal monster.
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: The "Faith" Arguement.
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2014, 12:14:56 pm »
The question is, why does the Almighty fucking bother with that shit, anyway?  If he knows all things, he already knows how its going to play out.  "All-knowing" implies that he can literally see the future with unerring accuracy, ergo, he'd know the outcome of his own pointless war.  His ways are inefficient at the best of times, and are more often than not breath-takingly cruel.  Though, at least that part makes sense considering Yahweh was basically the Jew version of Ares, back in the day, and only became the "one god" because of a few devoted followers and dumb luck.  It doesn't excuse the fact, though, that the Abrahamic god is a cruel, genocidal monster.
I think part of the answer is that God chooses to move inch by inch.

And this cruelty was done to people who were themselves already irredeemably cruel.  Cain was the first murderer.  The people of Sodom and Gomorrah gang-raped foreigners.  The Pharaoh of the Exodus put his pride before his country.  The Amalekites repeatedly tried to commit genocide against the Israelites.  The Phoenicians sacrificed children.  Every time I look at one of God's atrocities, I can't help but feel that the victims deserved it.

Offline rookie

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Re: The "Faith" Arguement.
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2014, 12:20:03 pm »
We all have faith in something. As long as you're not trying to convert me, if faith is good enough for you, it's good enough for me.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 12:40:16 pm by rookie »
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: The "Faith" Arguement.
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2014, 12:26:14 pm »
We all have faith in something. As long as you're not trying to convert me, if faith is good enough for you, it's good weblog for me.
What exactly do you mean by "good weblog"?

Offline rookie

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Re: The "Faith" Arguement.
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2014, 12:39:20 pm »
My computer broke a while ago. So I'm doing everything internet on my phone. And sometimes if I get bumped my thumb well slide and Android Swype will take a guess at what I was trying to say. Mea culpa. As soon as I hit post I'll fix it. It was supposed to say if it's good enough for you is good ENOUGH for me.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 12:41:32 pm by rookie »
The difference between 0 and 1 is infinite. The difference between 1 and a million is a matter of degree. - Zack Johnson

Quote from: davedan board=pg thread=6573 post=218058 time=1286247542
I'll stop eating beef lamb and pork the same day they start letting me eat vegetarians.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: The "Faith" Arguement.
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2014, 12:48:36 pm »
My computer broke a while ago. So I'm doing everything internet on my phone. And sometimes if I get bumped my thumb well slide and Android Swype will take a guess at what I was trying to say. Mea culpa. As soon as I hit post I'll fix it. It was supposed to say if it's good enough for you is good ENOUGH for me.
Ah.  Okay.

Offline mellenORL

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Re: The "Faith" Arguement.
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2014, 01:31:27 pm »
Quite a few of us have been limited to posting from mobile devices lately. I would say it's funny to see all the autocorrects derping up otherwise intelligent forum members' spelling and posts, except not. Sucks when all you have to surf and post with is a phone.
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