Author Topic: #WeNeedDiverseBooks  (Read 4052 times)

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Offline I am lizard

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Re: #WeNeedDiverseBooks
« Reply #45 on: May 10, 2014, 07:12:14 pm »
I always found meeting a quota of ethnicity a bit weird. I see and agree with the point of it, but forcing it seems...creepy

Okay this is a bit white, hey you, youre out...okay youre black so you can come in, okay we also need an asian or two.

And in writing. Again its a little irky to assume everybody in a typical novel is white. But if you force people to make it more ethnic, youre just gonna get people going

"Oh, its whitewashed *inserts the word asian into a couple of character descriptions* done."

At least thats what i would do, just to irritate others by being blasé about it
Yeah, often Hollywood *cough*whiteguys will just throw in a non-white character and call it quits. Pro tip:make sure every story or bit of character development relating to them reminds us of how non-white they are.

Also: make sure to kill them off quickly once the conflict appears so you can resume focus on the white people who actually matter to the story.  Black Guy Dies First, and all that.
Or if they're lesbians, make sure they make out and do the sex thing so wealthy 12 year olds will buy tickets.
And don't forget:all Asians are magic.

I haven't seen that stereotype much, to be honest.

Native Americans, on the other hand, are always either magic (post-1970s) or savages (pre-1970s). Along with the occasional goofy sidekick role.
Oh sorry, Asians are just able to fix any computer and probably know something about ninjas.

Offline Random Dinosaur

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Re: #WeNeedDiverseBooks
« Reply #46 on: May 10, 2014, 07:20:27 pm »
I always found meeting a quota of ethnicity a bit weird. I see and agree with the point of it, but forcing it seems...creepy

Okay this is a bit white, hey you, youre out...okay youre black so you can come in, okay we also need an asian or two.

And in writing. Again its a little irky to assume everybody in a typical novel is white. But if you force people to make it more ethnic, youre just gonna get people going

"Oh, its whitewashed *inserts the word asian into a couple of character descriptions* done."

At least thats what i would do, just to irritate others by being blasé about it
Yeah, often Hollywood *cough*whiteguys will just throw in a non-white character and call it quits. Pro tip:make sure every story or bit of character development relating to them reminds us of how non-white they are.

Also: make sure to kill them off quickly once the conflict appears so you can resume focus on the white people who actually matter to the story.  Black Guy Dies First, and all that.
Or if they're lesbians, make sure they make out and do the sex thing so wealthy 12 year olds will buy tickets.
And don't forget:all Asians are magic.

I haven't seen that stereotype much, to be honest.

Native Americans, on the other hand, are always either magic (post-1970s) or savages (pre-1970s). Along with the occasional goofy sidekick role.
Oh sorry, Asians are just able to fix any computer and probably know something about ninjas.
And they all know kung fu.
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Offline I am lizard

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Re: #WeNeedDiverseBooks
« Reply #47 on: May 25, 2014, 02:46:32 am »
What about POC.

Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: #WeNeedDiverseBooks
« Reply #48 on: May 25, 2014, 04:09:20 am »
If there isn't, we should make one.
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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: #WeNeedDiverseBooks
« Reply #49 on: May 25, 2014, 11:44:17 am »
There is, and it's exactly what you'd think (A movie must have at least two non-white characters who talk about something that isn't a white person)
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Offline Igor

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Re: #WeNeedDiverseBooks
« Reply #50 on: May 25, 2014, 11:58:24 am »
I'm a bit torn on this whole issue, myself. On the one hand, I agree that there should be more decent literature with minorities in non-stereotypical roles, but on the other hand as a writer I take issue with anyone telling me what to write (or what I ought to be writing about, as the case may be), and I don't like the idea that an author should be criticized for their choice of characters. Also anything coming close to a quota system will only encourage tokenism, which I think we can all agree is generally a bad thing ("Oops, better put a black character in here or I'll get panned", it's not exactly a healthy writing environment).

Though I agree fully when it comes to film adaptations changing a character's race, that's kinda scummy. I think characters should be cast as close to the description given in the source material as possible.

(Incidentally, the Otherland series and The Girl Who Saved the King of Sweden both feature black South African women as main/major characters and both happen to be incredible. Dunno if that counts as "minority" due to the setting, but still! Highly recommended, both.)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 12:02:03 pm by Randomwolf42 »


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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: #WeNeedDiverseBooks
« Reply #51 on: May 26, 2014, 07:08:13 am »
I'm a bit torn on this whole issue, myself. On the one hand, I agree that there should be more decent literature with minorities in non-stereotypical roles, but on the other hand as a writer I take issue with anyone telling me what to write

Too bad. If you want to make money out of writing, someone is going to tell you exactly what to write about and he will be the worst possible person for the job. You will spend probably as much effort trying to convince him not to utterly shit on your brilliant idea as you will developing it - and even then, even if you're a genius well-known author, the Worst Author In The World may still ruin it. This is what happened to Once Upon a Time in America, Firefly, the Wire...

Hollywood has spent eighty years developing an iron-clad system whereby exactly the wrong person will get the job. That's what I'm mad about.
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Offline Radiation

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Re: #WeNeedDiverseBooks
« Reply #52 on: May 30, 2014, 08:30:17 pm »
Any outside attempt to force Hollywood into more diversity will fail.  If you make a rule that say book adaptations can't change the ethnicity of a person and Hollywood thing that movie may not do as well without the which the movie does not get made.  As it is right now movie studios are not taking chances. 

If you have some type of quota system you as simple going to get very low budget moves introduced to balance things out.


Oh, I mean like the academy or the union or something. Or a properly enthusiastic activist group.



Those groups would have to make enough nose



Ok, this made me crack up laughing that I nearly choked on my food. Thanks Magus!

Seriously, a group that I would like to see in movies and books are characters that are fat (especially women) and not in a stereotypical role, what I mean is characters that aren't always goofy, stupid, eating too much, loved starved, etc. I would love to see a good, strong, fat women playing something like a superhero or something. I think that fat people overall should have better representation in the media.


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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: #WeNeedDiverseBooks
« Reply #53 on: May 30, 2014, 10:21:30 pm »
I'm a bit torn on this whole issue, myself. On the one hand, I agree that there should be more decent literature with minorities in non-stereotypical roles, but on the other hand as a writer I take issue with anyone telling me what to write

Too bad. If you want to make money out of writing, someone is going to tell you exactly what to write about and he will be the worst possible person for the job. You will spend probably as much effort trying to convince him not to utterly shit on your brilliant idea as you will developing it - and even then, even if you're a genius well-known author, the Worst Author In The World may still ruin it. This is what happened to Once Upon a Time in America, Firefly, the Wire...

Hollywood has spent eighty years developing an iron-clad system whereby exactly the wrong person will get the job. That's what I'm mad about.

Then, I have a counter-suggestion...

To become an accredited editor (not as in "you're now allowed to be an editor" more like "people will now take you seriously as an editor"), you must have written at least short story of acceptable quality that relies, as little as possible, on any negative stereotypes.  The story must be deemed "of acceptably quality" by, at minimum, three well-known authors of quality work (think Stephen King, not Stephanie Meyer).

To keep your accreditation as an editor, you must undergo a yearly evaluation of your editing by a randomly-chosen panel of three to five quality authors, and no one author can judge your work for more than two consecutive years, and will only be allowed to judge your works again after a three year period has passed since they were last selected for the panel that is judging your work.  To pass muster, you must prove that you have a comprehensive knowledge and grasp of the English language, the ability to consistently and accurately point out things such as plot holes, overused gimmicks, bigoted caricatures, et al, and that you have proven that you show proper respect to the author whose work(s) that you're editing.
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Offline Lt. Fred

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Re: #WeNeedDiverseBooks
« Reply #54 on: May 31, 2014, 12:44:17 am »
I'm a bit torn on this whole issue, myself. On the one hand, I agree that there should be more decent literature with minorities in non-stereotypical roles, but on the other hand as a writer I take issue with anyone telling me what to write

Too bad. If you want to make money out of writing, someone is going to tell you exactly what to write about and he will be the worst possible person for the job. You will spend probably as much effort trying to convince him not to utterly shit on your brilliant idea as you will developing it - and even then, even if you're a genius well-known author, the Worst Author In The World may still ruin it. This is what happened to Once Upon a Time in America, Firefly, the Wire...

Hollywood has spent eighty years developing an iron-clad system whereby exactly the wrong person will get the job. That's what I'm mad about.

Then, I have a counter-suggestion...

To become an accredited editor (not as in "you're now allowed to be an editor" more like "people will now take you seriously as an editor"), you must have written at least short story of acceptable quality that relies, as little as possible, on any negative stereotypes.  The story must be deemed "of acceptably quality" by, at minimum, three well-known authors of quality work (think Stephen King, not Stephanie Meyer).

To keep your accreditation as an editor, you must undergo a yearly evaluation of your editing by a randomly-chosen panel of three to five quality authors, and no one author can judge your work for more than two consecutive years, and will only be allowed to judge your works again after a three year period has passed since they were last selected for the panel that is judging your work.  To pass muster, you must prove that you have a comprehensive knowledge and grasp of the English language, the ability to consistently and accurately point out things such as plot holes, overused gimmicks, bigoted caricatures, et al, and that you have proven that you show proper respect to the author whose work(s) that you're editing.

Absolutely. 100% dead on, I think.

But that still leaves the serious threat of corporate meddling. What do you do about Corporate? Maybe the way to go is to prevent actual business people from running arts companies. Either run them in common with a rotating business leader, or have an executive promoted from the ranks of actual artists.
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: #WeNeedDiverseBooks
« Reply #55 on: May 31, 2014, 08:11:18 am »
I dunno...personally, I don't like a bunch of corporate dickheads being in charge of artists in the first place.  That happened with EA and their reputation has YET to recover fully.  Their role should be "find a way to make this marketable," but without the stranglehold they and stockholders have over the creative process.  How you'd do that, however, is not a question I can currently answer, alas.
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