Author Topic: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet  (Read 83201 times)

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Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1365 on: May 22, 2018, 12:50:27 am »
Not that it matters. I mean, pointing out the obvious here is like shouting at a brick wall. It just begs the philosophical question whether a point truly has meaning if no intelligent observer is there to evaluate and understand said point. Essentially, the old "if a tree falls on Helen Keller, and no one is around, does she make a sound?"

Nevertheless, here I go: Lana, the timing of the protest coupled with the police action is suspect. It was after Charlottesville, where the alt-right killed a peaceful protestor. Disarming the group that is clearly less violent, while allowing literal Nazis to carry weapons in the wake Charlottesville, was clearly not borne of a desire to maintain peace: it was to leave protestors defenseless to Nazi attacks.

Can you prove that no effort was made to disarm the rally's participants? Or that there was a serious effort to disarm Antifa, as opposed to a token show of doing so?

You seem to be confusing the threat assessment with the article. The fact the threat assessment wasted time fretting about anarchists only underscores the fact that they were woefully unprepared for alt righters firing live rounds at unarmed leftists, openly beating black men yards from a police station, forming literal torch weilding mobs-oh and vehicular homicide. All this reveals is the deep cultural problem within US law enforcement when it comes to accurately assessing right wing threats.

But fine people. But both sides.

They were basing things off recent events. I agree that they were woefully unprepared, but I don't think it's because of political bias.

Actually, I have a question. Is it wrong to condemn violent acts committed by Antifa? I'm excluding acts of self-defense, of course.

I think it's petty and sleazy coming from you specifically as you're trying to conflate lethal and genocidal Nazis with their opponents and claiming that the Nazis psychotic violence equates with leftists fighting them in self defence.

I specifically excluded self-defense. Try again.


Fighting Nazis, esp. if you belong to any of the groups that they literally want to wipe from the face of the Earth. Is always self-defense.

So is it okay for rich people to pick fights with communists just for being communists?
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Offline Svata

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1366 on: May 22, 2018, 02:01:12 am »
Yes, because having stupid fucking amounts of money that you exploited people to get and being forced to give that up so that people don't starve is exactly the same as being born the wrong way. You can stop being rich. You cannot stop being gay, or black, or (heritage-wise, not belief-wise) Jewish. You disingenuous, false-equivalence-drawing FUCKWAD.
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Offline Askold

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1367 on: May 22, 2018, 02:17:38 am »
I mean, rich people pick fights with communists all the time. Now it is mainly by putting money into propaganda and bribing politicians to make sure that capitalist countries won't have powerful communist parties, but it is not unheard of for rich people to tell USA to invade a country and take down their government or give money to terrorists and help them smuggle drugs into Europe. United fruit company for example did both. Then again, times have changed, last time it was proven they did either was back in the distant 2007 and I'm sure they learned their lesson after that.

...But I was going somewhere with this. Oh that's right, if you see communists saying that they want to kill people just for being rich or being born into certain families then sure, that's bad and all but all the communists, socialists and whatnot that I've seen in real life (and not as strawmen) are just talking about equality and boring stuff like living wages or basic income. Meanwhile the Nazis I've seen are still quite open about wanting death camps. Almost as if the two groups are not the same.
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1368 on: May 22, 2018, 02:51:42 am »
You seem to be confusing the threat assessment with the article. The fact the threat assessment wasted time fretting about anarchists only underscores the fact that they were woefully unprepared for alt righters firing live rounds at unarmed leftists, openly beating black men yards from a police station, forming literal torch weilding mobs-oh and vehicular homicide. All this reveals is the deep cultural problem within US law enforcement when it comes to accurately assessing right wing threats.

But fine people. But both sides.

They were basing things off recent events. I agree that they were woefully unprepared, but I don't think it's because of political bias.

Actually, I have a question. Is it wrong to condemn violent acts committed by Antifa? I'm excluding acts of self-defense, of course.

I think it's petty and sleazy coming from you specifically as you're trying to conflate lethal and genocidal Nazis with their opponents and claiming that the Nazis psychotic violence equates with leftists fighting them in self defence.

I specifically excluded self-defense. Try again.

Also you missed the very next paragraph aftwe the one you're trying to use as your "gotcha" from the Vox article.

Quote
Local and university pokice acted under similar assumptions, allowing white nationalists to move freely even after the violence on August 11.

So, their freaking out over a vastly overhyped antifa 'threat' caused them to overlook the ones screaming "blood and soil" and causing blood to soak the soil. Criminal negligence, at best!

You mean they operated under the assumption that, based on past events, Antifa would attack and the alt-right would fight in self-defense? I agree that they should have taken greater measures in case the alt-right started things, but it's not as biased as you claim it to be.
Only LanaGon would take away from Charlotsville that the "alt right fought in self defense", tell me Lana, what was Heather doing to that alt right guys car from over thirty metres away before the alt-righter squished her with it?

Offline Askold

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1369 on: May 22, 2018, 03:17:00 am »
https://thinkprogress.org/white-supremacist-found-guilty-after-charlottesville-928a69a05180/

Why do the authorities persecute these poor people for self defence?
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline niam2023

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1370 on: May 22, 2018, 04:52:21 am »
I mean, rich people pick fights with communists all the time. Now it is mainly by putting money into propaganda and bribing politicians to make sure that capitalist countries won't have powerful communist parties, but it is not unheard of for rich people to tell USA to invade a country and take down their government or give money to terrorists and help them smuggle drugs into Europe. United fruit company for example did both. Then again, times have changed, last time it was proven they did either was back in the distant 2007 and I'm sure they learned their lesson after that.

...But I was going somewhere with this. Oh that's right, if you see communists saying that they want to kill people just for being rich or being born into certain families then sure, that's bad and all but all the communists, socialists and whatnot that I've seen in real life (and not as strawmen) are just talking about equality and boring stuff like living wages or basic income. Meanwhile the Nazis I've seen are still quite open about wanting death camps. Almost as if the two groups are not the same.

Lana: BUT BUT BUT! I CAN FIND REDDIT POSTS! AND...AND TUMBLR QUOTES! AND TWEETS! BOFF SIDES!! WAAAH BOFF SIDES!! WAAH!
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Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1371 on: May 22, 2018, 10:49:05 am »
You seem to be confusing the threat assessment with the article. The fact the threat assessment wasted time fretting about anarchists only underscores the fact that they were woefully unprepared for alt righters firing live rounds at unarmed leftists, openly beating black men yards from a police station, forming literal torch weilding mobs-oh and vehicular homicide. All this reveals is the deep cultural problem within US law enforcement when it comes to accurately assessing right wing threats.

But fine people. But both sides.

They were basing things off recent events. I agree that they were woefully unprepared, but I don't think it's because of political bias.

Actually, I have a question. Is it wrong to condemn violent acts committed by Antifa? I'm excluding acts of self-defense, of course.

I think it's petty and sleazy coming from you specifically as you're trying to conflate lethal and genocidal Nazis with their opponents and claiming that the Nazis psychotic violence equates with leftists fighting them in self defence.

I specifically excluded self-defense. Try again.

Also you missed the very next paragraph aftwe the one you're trying to use as your "gotcha" from the Vox article.

Quote
Local and university pokice acted under similar assumptions, allowing white nationalists to move freely even after the violence on August 11.

So, their freaking out over a vastly overhyped antifa 'threat' caused them to overlook the ones screaming "blood and soil" and causing blood to soak the soil. Criminal negligence, at best!

You mean they operated under the assumption that, based on past events, Antifa would attack and the alt-right would fight in self-defense? I agree that they should have taken greater measures in case the alt-right started things, but it's not as biased as you claim it to be.
Only LanaGon would take away from Charlotsville that the "alt right fought in self defense", tell me Lana, what was Heather doing to that alt right guys car from over thirty metres away before the alt-righter squished her with it?

I said they assumed the alt-right would fight in self-defense, you disingenuous chode.

I mean, rich people pick fights with communists all the time. Now it is mainly by putting money into propaganda and bribing politicians to make sure that capitalist countries won't have powerful communist parties, but it is not unheard of for rich people to tell USA to invade a country and take down their government or give money to terrorists and help them smuggle drugs into Europe. United fruit company for example did both. Then again, times have changed, last time it was proven they did either was back in the distant 2007 and I'm sure they learned their lesson after that.

...But I was going somewhere with this. Oh that's right, if you see communists saying that they want to kill people just for being rich or being born into certain families then sure, that's bad and all but all the communists, socialists and whatnot that I've seen in real life (and not as strawmen) are just talking about equality and boring stuff like living wages or basic income. Meanwhile the Nazis I've seen are still quite open about wanting death camps. Almost as if the two groups are not the same.

Lana: BUT BUT BUT! I CAN FIND REDDIT POSTS! AND...AND TUMBLR QUOTES! AND TWEETS! BOFF SIDES!! WAAAH BOFF SIDES!! WAAH!

Stop that right now. I have more than that.

https://www.revealnews.org/blog/police-stand-down-strategy-at-berkeley-rally-praised-panned/

Quote
Tensions rose. The black bloc pushed forward, as if to scale the waist-high barriers that officers put up to secure the park. Alameda County sheriff’s deputies began putting on helmets and gas masks – a sign of trouble to come.

Then, police radios crackled: “Please be advised – we are not deploying,” the dispatcher said.

With that, police pulled back from the park, and the black bloc surged in. Fights and scuffles broke out. Right-wing demonstrators, badly outnumbered, found themselves mobbed by the black-clad protesters. They struggled to break away and flee.

Well, would you look at that? Antifa started the fight.

The article also seems to indicate that the police attempted to disarm both sides. And even if they really did only try to disarm Antifa, the fact that they were the ones who started the fighting makes it seem as though they had a point.
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Offline ironbite

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1372 on: May 22, 2018, 03:26:55 pm »
Lana can I ask you to stop?  Like seriously.  Just stop.

Ironbite-you lost long ago.

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1373 on: May 22, 2018, 03:30:55 pm »
Lana can I ask you to stop?  Like seriously.  Just stop.

Ironbite-you lost long ago.

No I haven't.
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Offline Svata

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1374 on: May 22, 2018, 04:20:38 pm »
Everyone here has dismissed your arguments as frivolous and lacking in merit. You have convinced no one of anything, save that you think that protecting Nazis right to gather more Nazis and spread their hateful doctrine is more important than protecting oneself against Nazis. Take the L, already.
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Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1375 on: May 22, 2018, 04:31:22 pm »
Everyone here has dismissed your arguments as frivolous and lacking in merit. You have convinced no one of anything, save that you think that protecting Nazis right to gather more Nazis and spread their hateful doctrine is more important than protecting oneself against Nazis. Take the L, already.

That is a strawman. I have no problem with people protecting themselves from Nazis, but starting fights with them is not self-defense. Period.
Beware those who hate the rich more than they love the poor.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1376 on: May 22, 2018, 04:38:35 pm »
Is Lana actually the same guy as Jacob Harrison? They both have a tendency to take over threads and turn them into discussion of them wanking all over the internet!

Offline ironbite

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1377 on: May 22, 2018, 06:37:48 pm »
Oh shit.  Jacob is probably Ult's new sock puppet designed to make Lana look sane by comparison.

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Offline davedan

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1378 on: May 22, 2018, 06:38:26 pm »
Lana can I ask you to stop?  Like seriously.  Just stop.

Ironbite-you lost long ago.

No I haven't.

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Offline Svata

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Re: Not-Good Things People Say on the Internet
« Reply #1379 on: May 22, 2018, 07:14:11 pm »
Everyone here has dismissed your arguments as frivolous and lacking in merit. You have convinced no one of anything, save that you think that protecting Nazis right to gather more Nazis and spread their hateful doctrine is more important than protecting oneself against Nazis. Take the L, already.

That is a strawman. I have no problem with people protecting themselves from Nazis, but starting fights with them is not self-defense. Period.


I am bi. This means that Nazis want me dead, and are gathering forces in order to gain a position which they can then use to kill me, black people, Jewish people, and several other groups of people. Any action taken against them to prevent that is defending myself from their ultimate goal. Like, the whole fucking purpose of Nazism is to get to a point where they can eradicate the people they don't like. Literally murder us all. It is always. Always. Self-defense.
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