Author Topic: Google facing multiple lawsuits  (Read 3602 times)

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Offline Askold

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #90 on: September 11, 2017, 09:01:11 am »
Consider how tactically Lana chose to badmouth Quinn despite most of the news about her being how she has been harassed.

If I said that all I know about Obama is that he may or may not be secretly a Kenyan would you consider that likely to be the only bit I have learned about him?
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
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Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #91 on: September 11, 2017, 10:44:34 am »
I don't know much about Zoe, other than that she apparently made an overrated game, but the same goes for her.
I am in awe of someone who chases drama on the internet as much as you seem to and you doesn't know the skinny about Gamergate.



This is my totally not skeptical face!

It's more that I can't bring myself to care. There are far more interesting and impactful things to worry about, even by the standards of internet drama. As far as I'm concerned, it's just another case of inconsequential bullshit getting overblown by the media.

Consider how tactically Lana chose to badmouth Quinn despite most of the news about her being how she has been harassed.

If I said that all I know about Obama is that he may or may not be secretly a Kenyan would you consider that likely to be the only bit I have learned about him?

Well, pardon me for not caring about an overhyped flame war. And honestly, it seems kind of hypocritical that you're so concerned about online harassment (that, AFAIK, hasn't resulted in any serious long-term consequences) when you don't show nearly as much concern about people getting physically assaulted by a certain faction of left-wing extremists.

Besides, what I said was a judgment of her game, not her. There's a difference between saying "Avatar is overrated" and saying "James Cameron is a prima donna".

Also, while I'm here, I'd like to talk about the Damore case and why it upsets me.

I'm willing to concede that Damore's memo may have been flawed. Maybe his data were faulty, maybe his conclusions were wrong, maybe his recommendations wouldn't work.

But you know what? That doesn't justify what's happened to him.

Nowhere in his memo did he claim that women were inferior to men, just different. He never said that we couldn't handle pressure, or that we shouldn't work in tech, or anything else you'd expect to find on RoK. All he said was that Google's approach was counterproductive and that there were better ways to accommodate female employees. And the media raked him over the coals for it.

You know what I saw precious little of during the media crusade against him? Scientific criticism. What I saw was, by and large, hysterical screaming about his alleged sexism. He didn't deserve the hitpieces against him, and he certainly didn't deserve to be fired. I'm definitely not against his memo being discussed from a scientific point of view, even negatively. However, I am against emotionally-based criticism of him. Because that's essentially what this amounts to.

Besides, aren't you afraid that this might have a chilling effect on scientific inquiry? If you can't question prevailing ideas without getting fired from your job, do you think people will be willing to challenge predominant theories?

And in any case, firing him didn't prove him wrong. It didn't change his mind. All it did was make him into a victim. Even if he was completely wrong, firing him was not the right course of action.

Let me tell you a story. When I was a teenager, I found a website claiming the moon landings were faked. I thought what they had to say was interesting, so I checked to see if there were rebuttals. There were, and I found them satisfactory. On the other hand, if anybody who questioned the moon landings ended up hit with a media smear campaign and fired from their job, all while hardly anybody gave actual scientific criticism of their ideas, I'd be a little suspicious. Wouldn't you?
I also pissed in an old woman's sauce pan when I was a child. Have you?

Offline Askold

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #92 on: September 11, 2017, 01:16:34 pm »
My point has always been that couple morons in the "left" are just a couple morons and focusing on them while making excused for Nazis is not "neutral" it is damn well choosing to side with Nazis.

Also that memo was an excuse to claim that women aren't on tech jobs and aren't getting paid equally because they are women and wired that way and that it's their own fault. Also there's the weird thought that anything promoting equality is left-wing. But that is a common belief in USA for some reason.

And there's a difference between disagreements online and sending death threats and rape threats. I for one have never threatened to rape and/or kill a person for disagreeing with me. Not a high standard but as many of the people who complain about Quinn and other noted women in gaming fail to meet even that.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #93 on: September 11, 2017, 04:02:10 pm »
My point has always been that couple morons in the "left" are just a couple morons and focusing on them while making excused for Nazis is not "neutral" it is damn well choosing to side with Nazis.

It's more than just "a couple morons". These are large, angry mobs of violent extremists. What do you want me to do, ignore them?

And are you saying I'm making excuses for Nazis?

Also that memo was an excuse to claim that women aren't on tech jobs and aren't getting paid equally because they are women and wired that way and that it's their own fault. Also there's the weird thought that anything promoting equality is left-wing. But that is a common belief in USA for some reason.

If you want to criticize the memo, fine. But talk about the actual memo, not your strawman.

And there's a difference between disagreements online and sending death threats and rape threats. I for one have never threatened to rape and/or kill a person for disagreeing with me. Not a high standard but as many of the people who complain about Quinn and other noted women in gaming fail to meet even that.

Yes, that's awful, and I condemn it. They definitely don't deserve to go through that.

That being said, however, I fail to see how their cases are special. If you're prominent on the internet and even slightly controversial, you will get threats. Whether you give a bad review or draw fanart SJWs consider "problematic", they're almost inevitable.

Just so we're entirely clear, I'm not saying that death threats should be considered acceptable. I'm not saying you shouldn't be concerned. What I am saying is that I have no reason to believe what Quinn and co. went through is unique. If you can show me how it is, I'm willing to listen.
I also pissed in an old woman's sauce pan when I was a child. Have you?

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #94 on: September 11, 2017, 05:34:50 pm »
My point has always been that couple morons in the "left" are just a couple morons and focusing on them while making excused for Nazis is not "neutral" it is damn well choosing to side with Nazis.

It's more than just "a couple morons". These are large, angry mobs of violent extremists. What do you want me to do, ignore them?

Didn't you just say you ignored that whole Quinn drama?

Because there were no mobs of violent extremists involved in that one, no siree.

And there's a difference between disagreements online and sending death threats and rape threats. I for one have never threatened to rape and/or kill a person for disagreeing with me. Not a high standard but as many of the people who complain about Quinn and other noted women in gaming fail to meet even that.

Yes, that's awful, and I condemn it. They definitely don't deserve to go through that.

That being said, however, I fail to see how their cases are special. If you're prominent on the internet and even slightly controversial, you will get threats. Whether you give a bad review or draw fanart SJWs consider "problematic", they're almost inevitable.

Just so we're entirely clear, I'm not saying that death threats should be considered acceptable. I'm not saying you shouldn't be concerned. What I am saying is that I have no reason to believe what Quinn and co. went through is unique. If you can show me how it is, I'm willing to listen.
Our fearless defender of civil virtue and law and order tells us because other people get rape and death threats too it's no biggie because that shit happens all the time. So do scuffles at protests, Lana.
Who the fuck said the biggest problem was it's "uniqueness" anyway? Is a rape threat only notable if it's done by a mime playing a kazoo?
Maybe the problem isn't that Quinn's experience was "special" but rather that it happened at all!
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 05:50:17 pm by Tolpuddle Martyr »

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #95 on: September 11, 2017, 07:59:46 pm »
My point has always been that couple morons in the "left" are just a couple morons and focusing on them while making excused for Nazis is not "neutral" it is damn well choosing to side with Nazis.

It's more than just "a couple morons". These are large, angry mobs of violent extremists. What do you want me to do, ignore them?

Didn't you just say you ignored that whole Quinn drama?

Because there were no mobs of violent extremists involved in that one, no siree.

Wait, there were? Did anybody get attacked? Not just yelled at over the internet, but attacked?


And there's a difference between disagreements online and sending death threats and rape threats. I for one have never threatened to rape and/or kill a person for disagreeing with me. Not a high standard but as many of the people who complain about Quinn and other noted women in gaming fail to meet even that.

Yes, that's awful, and I condemn it. They definitely don't deserve to go through that.

That being said, however, I fail to see how their cases are special. If you're prominent on the internet and even slightly controversial, you will get threats. Whether you give a bad review or draw fanart SJWs consider "problematic", they're almost inevitable.

Just so we're entirely clear, I'm not saying that death threats should be considered acceptable. I'm not saying you shouldn't be concerned. What I am saying is that I have no reason to believe what Quinn and co. went through is unique. If you can show me how it is, I'm willing to listen.
Our fearless defender of civil virtue and law and order tells us because other people get rape and death threats too it's no biggie because that shit happens all the time. So do scuffles at protests, Lana.
Who the fuck said the biggest problem was it's "uniqueness" anyway? Is a rape threat only notable if it's done by a mime playing a kazoo?
Maybe the problem isn't that Quinn's experience was "special" but rather that it happened at all!

OK, do you have some kind of problem with reading comprehension? Because I literally just denied what you're claiming I said!

What part of my above statement said the threats she got were "no big deal"?
I also pissed in an old woman's sauce pan when I was a child. Have you?

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #96 on: September 11, 2017, 08:15:46 pm »
Yeah Lana, if some anarchist sounds off promoting arson it's just words innit? No big whoop.

Why the hell.did you bring up the non unique status of Quinn's experience if not to diminish it? 'Shit happens on the internet" is literally pointless unless it's an excuse for bad behavior.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 08:34:55 pm by Tolpuddle Martyr »

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #97 on: September 11, 2017, 09:25:57 pm »
Yeah Lana, if some anarchist sounds off promoting arson it's just words innit? No big whoop.

Why the hell.did you bring up the non unique status of Quinn's experience if not to diminish it? 'Shit happens on the internet" is literally pointless unless it's an excuse for bad behavior.

I'm not diminishing it, you're overblowing it. Honestly, I don't get why you're so fixated on it.
I also pissed in an old woman's sauce pan when I was a child. Have you?

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #98 on: September 11, 2017, 10:53:04 pm »
Dunno why you're so fixated on losing your mind over a tiny minority of lefties called antifa who get into scuffles at rallies or the suffering of a former google dudebro who got panned for their "nawt sexism, science bro" anti-science manifesto!
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 11:06:09 pm by Tolpuddle Martyr »

Offline Cloud3514

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #99 on: September 12, 2017, 01:57:30 pm »
Well, when all you have is a shovel....
Who needs a signature?

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #100 on: September 15, 2017, 05:08:23 pm »
Dunno why you're so fixated on losing your mind over a tiny minority of lefties called antifa who get into scuffles at rallies or the suffering of a former google dudebro who got panned for their "nawt sexism, science bro" anti-science manifesto!

They do worse than get into scuffles at rallies. They make unprovoked attacks on people simply because they were there. Or have you already forgotten about the cancelled Yiannpolous talk in Berkeley? Antifa are thugs LARPing as freedom fighters. Why shouldn't I be against them?

Also, I'd like you to explain why you think the memo is "sexist" and "anti-science", preferably with direct quotes from it.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 05:13:28 pm by Lana Reverse »
I also pissed in an old woman's sauce pan when I was a child. Have you?

Offline ironbite

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #101 on: September 15, 2017, 06:27:48 pm »
So you're too stupid to actually realize why that "memo" should be an affront to your entire gender?

Ironbite-good to know.

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #102 on: September 15, 2017, 10:49:58 pm »
So you're too stupid to actually realize why that "memo" should be an affront to your entire gender?

Ironbite-good to know.

Wait a second. You're telling me that if I don't agree with your views on gender, I'm stupid?

Wow, you're really lacking in the self-awareness department.
I also pissed in an old woman's sauce pan when I was a child. Have you?

Offline ironbite

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #103 on: September 16, 2017, 03:21:27 pm »
You're not helping your case of not being Ultimate Dragon/Dynamic Paragon you know.

Ironbite-but then again its about what I expect from you.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Google facing multiple lawsuits
« Reply #104 on: September 16, 2017, 08:11:40 pm »

They do worse than get into scuffles at rallies. They make unprovoked attacks on people simply because they were there. Or have you already forgotten about the cancelled Yiannpolous talk in Berkeley? Antifa are thugs LARPing as freedom fighters. Why shouldn't I be against them?

Also, I'd like you to explain why you think the memo is "sexist" and "anti-science", preferably with direct quotes from it.
Because fishing for and cherry picking data to support your conclusion is precisely the opposite of science. When you start with this statement.

Quote
"When it comes to diversity and inclusion, Google’s left bias has created a politically correct monoculture that maintains its hold by shaming dissenters into silence."

And then thrash around looking for anything to back it up you're doing political advocacy, not science. It's the opposite of science. The scientific method gathers evidence, develops a hypothesis based on said evidence and only then starts talking about a theory. The google manifesto started with butthurt, tried to bolster the butthurt with bullet points of cherry picked statistics and then declared butthurt to be so, that's the fucking precise opposite of science.



Google guy is pretending to be the guy on the left when in fact he's the guy on the right, start with a contentious conclusion and bolster it with a bunch of sciency words is not fucking science!

And I still can't muster any sympathy for those who wear a swastika, or a MAGA hat for that matter. Both stand for the politics of white racial supremacy but I guess, sure - you shouldn't launch uprovoked attacks on racist fuckholes not because it makes you look bad but because unprovoked attacks bad m'kay? Not gonna lose any sleep when it happens though.

Bottom line, ANTIFA's stated historical reason for existence, that you can't rely on the state to stop Nazis, was bourne out in Berkely, where the cops disarmed Antifa but not the right wing  thugs LARPing as freedom fighters and in Charlottsville, where Heather Heyer was killed and that African American fella was thumped with poles by Nazis mere yards a police station, the cops just sorta hung back.

If the cops cannot be bothered defending a synagogue from crowds yelling "jews will not replace us" then the good police officers of Charlottsville are essentially advertising for Antifa. You don't want an out of control anti far right counterinsurgency? Get your fucking police to do their damn jobs!
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 08:31:59 pm by Tolpuddle Martyr »