Author Topic: Fundies' use of homosexuality-condemning publications  (Read 2082 times)

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Offline Mister Pine

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Fundies' use of homosexuality-condemning publications
« on: August 14, 2015, 12:01:31 pm »

I have had this happen on more than one occasion - when debating a fundamentalist and asking them to provide a NON-RELIGIOUS reason for opposing homosexuality.  I didn't think they'd be able to provide one, but they have, and on a couple separate occasions too.  The book in question is called "Homosexuality:  the Mental Illness that Went Away".

Is anyone familiar with it?  I just started looking online for info on it.  I'm hoping it's been discredited.
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Offline Mister Pine

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Re: Fundies' use of homosexuality-condemning publications
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2015, 12:22:54 pm »
It appears to be an account of the American Psychological Association's removal of homosexuality as a mental illness back in the 70s.  The story seems to be that gay activists protested it and then it was removed, but what is unclear is whether the lobbying was the REASON for the removal...which I have a hard time believing, and this is clearly the spin the fundies want to put on it.
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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Fundies' use of homosexuality-condemning publications
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2015, 04:35:40 pm »
I mean, to some extent it was. It's not a coincidence that the removal happened after the protests.

But you can spin two narratives about it:

One is that the great political power of the Gay Agenda pressured the APA to change the DSM against their will.

The other is that the reason the DSM included homosexuality was homophobic prejudice and when the LGBT rights movement grew stronger they managed to challenge enough preconceptions that psychiatrists realised they had no good reason to call homosexuality a mental disorder.

Obviously homophobes prefer the former.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Fundies' use of homosexuality-condemning publications
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2015, 04:38:41 pm »
I mean, to some extent it was. It's not a coincidence that the removal happened after the protests.

But you can spin two narratives about it:

One is that the great political power of the Gay Agenda pressured the APA to change the DSM against their will.

The other is that the reason the DSM included homosexuality was homophobic prejudice and when the LGBT rights movement grew stronger they managed to challenge enough preconceptions that psychiatrists realised they had no good reason to call homosexuality a mental disorder.

Obviously homophobes prefer the former.

I thought there was a third explanation: that it was included in the DSM because before that, homosexuality was considered a sin, and making it an illness lessened the stigma.
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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Fundies' use of homosexuality-condemning publications
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2015, 04:41:12 pm »
Could be, I hadn't heard that before but it makes sense.
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Offline Mister Pine

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Re: Fundies' use of homosexuality-condemning publications
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2015, 04:44:04 pm »
Someone right on the FSTDT area said in response:

"Right, because gay activists had such absolute control over the world's medical community in the mid-70s, despite being an as-yet-not-organised and fledgeling group."

That's kind of how I see it.  It's really hard for me to believe that you can successfully lobby an organization that deals with facts and data.
"It ain't supposed to make sense -  it's faith.  Faith is something that you believe that nobody in his right mind would believe."  - Archie Bunker

Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Fundies' use of homosexuality-condemning publications
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2015, 10:43:20 pm »
Someone right on the FSTDT area said in response:

"Right, because gay activists had such absolute control over the world's medical community in the mid-70s, despite being an as-yet-not-organised and fledgeling group."

That's kind of how I see it.  It's really hard for me to believe that you can successfully lobby an organization that deals with facts and data.

Yes, but I thought we were talking about the APA.

(sorry, that was a cheap joke, I have a deep respect for the psychiatric profession and the drugs they occasionally give me)

More on topic, I would not be too idealistic about it. I mean, the whole point is that they had declared homosexuality a mental illness. That was not based on hard findings.

I think they did the right thing in removing it*, but I would not say it's impossible to lobby an organization into declaring whatever is most politically expedient for them. Being supposed to be based on fact does not magically protect anyone from having biases or self-interest. Humans gonna human.


*obviously. I recognise I have issues, but that's mostly the anxiety disorder, not the wanting to fuck dudes.
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Offline Vypernight

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Re: Fundies' use of homosexuality-condemning publications
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2015, 04:48:27 am »
How many scientific theories have changed in the past 40 years?  Homosexuality being a mental disorder is just one of them. 
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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Fundies' use of homosexuality-condemning publications
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2015, 10:37:50 am »
"Homosexuality is a mental illness" is not really a scientific theory, though? At best, you can say it was a scientifically informed opinion, at worst, a cultural prejudice.

The difference between "mental illness" and "perfectly normal variation in behaviour" is very fuzzy and culturally mediated. It's not like psychiatrists make different predictions based on knowing one thing or the other; the main prediction of homosexuality that someone will want to have sex with people of the same gender, and that did not change with reclassification (and then of course all the associated stereotypes, but it's not like those went away with the reclassification either). The big difference is whether you think having same-sex relationships is Bad (and therefore wanting to do that is a disorder) or just a morally neutral preference.
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