Author Topic: Religious Mythicism  (Read 2989 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline davedan

  • Lord Cracker
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2618
Re: Religious Mythicism
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2016, 05:15:28 pm »
That's an interesting way to look at the propagation of ideas. Certainly since the invention of the printing press the internet has been the most powerful force in the propagation and alteration of ideas. It is one of the things that makes it hard for us to imagine the importance of accurate transcription and the ability for a transcription error to become the accepted version.

I take it you posted this Pyro as a modern take on Tol's campfire stories?

One of the interesting things about mythical figures is the interchangeability across cultures. One theory is this is because most of the main mythological figures are representations or allegories of the Sun.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2277
  • Have you got thumbs? SHOW ME YOUR FUCKING THUMBS!
Re: Religious Mythicism
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2016, 06:37:03 pm »
The Rainbow Serpent is common to lots of indigenous Australian nations, but it's not just associated with the sky but also with water holes-dashed important if you live in a desert. Ranginui and Papatuanuku, the primordial gods of the Maori live in darkness with their children. Coyote, the primordial deity of the Miwok native Americans is distinctly Earth dwelling.

I think the sun is incredibly important but myths tend to be centred around what people know, sun-but also water and earth as well as sex and childbirth in various manifestations.

My point is that the sun is incredibly important in mythology, but I doubt it's the single origin for most myths. Just one of many that are based around things that were/are important to people.

Offline davedan

  • Lord Cracker
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2618
Re: Religious Mythicism
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2016, 09:54:28 pm »
I agree, I wasn't suggesting that they all were but most of the interchangeable ones were sun gods. The other thing of note is your examples are all New Worlds myths which haven't had the cross pollination of the Indo-European Myth.

The reason I referred to the sun god (as opposed to some of the other interchangeable gods, such as the ocean) was because it has been really prolific. Apart from the ones we are familiar with like Sol, Helios, Apollo, Osiris there are so many more with are considered to be son gods, such as Adonis, Mithras, Dionysus, Bachus, some of the really interesting ideas are that even Heracles, Moses and Jesus are solar/zodiac allegories

Offline pyro

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 524
  • Gender: Male
  • Pretty unremarkable for a talking fire.
Re: Religious Mythicism
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2016, 12:21:28 am »
I take it you posted this Pyro as a modern take on Tol's campfire stories?

Pretty much, yeah.

The reason I referred to the sun god (as opposed to some of the other interchangeable gods, such as the ocean) was because it has been really prolific. Apart from the ones we are familiar with like Sol, Helios, Apollo, Osiris there are so many more with are considered to be son gods, such as Adonis, Mithras, Dionysus, Bachus, some of the really interesting ideas are that even Heracles, Moses and Jesus are solar/zodiac allegories

You know that the traditional Christian halo was stolen from depictions of Helios?
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 12:26:24 am by pyro »
I operate under Crocker's rules. Feel free to be mean to me, if it'll help us communicate more effectively.

Color is not as black and white as we like to think.

Offline davedan

  • Lord Cracker
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2618
Re: Religious Mythicism
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2016, 12:30:41 am »
Constantine also like the halo in his depictions taking it from Helios/Apollo.

Richard Carrier is probably one of the most academically respected Christ Mythicists. He does a good speech here on the gospels as mythology. Which funnily enought is a less controversial position than Christ himself being a mythic figure:
  <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0AXu6QdE7k" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0AXu6QdE7k</a>
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 05:29:52 pm by davedan »

Offline TheContrarian

  • Pope
  • ****
  • Posts: 405
  • Inter faeces et urinam nascimur
Re: Religious Mythicism
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2016, 04:31:15 pm »
Wasn't Richard Carrier that idiot who hitched himself to the AtheismPlus wagon until they did the usual thing and anonymously accused him of rape?

I'd rather take up petard hoisting as a hobby, personally...


"What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist."

Offline davedan

  • Lord Cracker
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2618
Re: Religious Mythicism
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2016, 05:19:39 pm »
I never heard about that, and can't see how it would matter to a discussion of mythology. I mean even if he raped a sack of baby beagles it wouldn't make any difference to his argument?

In any event, you don't have enough powder for a petard and I seriously doubt you have the co-ordination or athletic ability to throw one far enough to avoid being hoist yourself. You certainly aren't capable of dropping any thought bombs.

Offline Sigmaleph

  • Ungodlike
  • Administrator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3337
    • sigmaleph on tumblr
Re: Religious Mythicism
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2016, 05:44:20 pm »
Wasn't Richard Carrier that idiot who hitched himself to the AtheismPlus wagon until they did the usual thing and anonymously accused him of rape?

I'd rather take up petard hoisting as a hobby, personally...

I can't find any accusations of rape directed at him. There were other sex scandals relating to him, though, like when he confessed to cheating on his wife.
Σא

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2277
  • Have you got thumbs? SHOW ME YOUR FUCKING THUMBS!
Re: Religious Mythicism
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2016, 06:40:45 pm »
Our resident Contarian was sourcing his comments from the space between his blue-blooded Tory buttocks? Shocking!

Offline davedan

  • Lord Cracker
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2618
Re: Religious Mythicism
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2016, 08:36:44 pm »

Offline Ultimate Paragon

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8424
  • Gender: Male
  • Tougher than diamonds, stronger than steel
Re: Religious Mythicism
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2016, 09:47:29 pm »
Necroing my thread with an onion article:

http://www.theonion.com/article/god-admits-stealing-idea-messiah-zoroastrianism-53009

You know, I read that it's possible Christianity influenced Zoroastrianism, rather than the other way around.  After all, the great Zoroastrian holy book, the Avesta, didn't exist until the time of the Sasanian Empire (which came into being in 224 CE).  It's kind of a chicken/egg scenario.

Offline davedan

  • Lord Cracker
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2618
Re: Religious Mythicism
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2016, 10:22:52 pm »
Is that the same way Mithracism was influenced by Christianity by existing before it? I mean that's what Justin Martyr claimed.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2016, 10:24:37 pm by davedan »

Offline Ultimate Paragon

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8424
  • Gender: Male
  • Tougher than diamonds, stronger than steel
Re: Religious Mythicism
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2016, 10:43:30 pm »
Is that the same way Mithracism was influenced by Christianity by existing before it? I mean that's what Justin Martyr claimed.

Religions do evolve over time, especially in the oral transmission stage.

Offline davedan

  • Lord Cracker
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2618
Re: Religious Mythicism
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2016, 11:07:56 pm »
You've kind of missed my point. Perhaps a better one would have been did the story of Noah influence the epic of Gilgamesh?

But I fully accept that Religions evolve over time. Also that the evolution is much quicker during oral transmission and before a 'authorised' version of the written version.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2016, 11:11:28 pm by davedan »

Offline rookie

  • Miscreant, petty criminal, and all around nice guy
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2053
  • Gender: Male
Re: Religious Mythicism
« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2016, 01:24:49 am »

But I fully accept that Religions evolve over time. Also that the evolution is much quicker during oral transmission and before a 'authorised' version of the written version.

I don't know about that. My countrymen regularly make my head hurt, but to see what they've done to the basic tenants of Christianity in slightly under 250 years is pretty damn impressive. We went from love your event abs do good to those who hurt you to get them damn foreigners outta here and taxes are of the devil. We've completely turned what the main character of the new testament said completely on its ear. From peace to guns in under 250 years.
The difference between 0 and 1 is infinite. The difference between 1 and a million is a matter of degree. - Zack Johnson

Quote from: davedan board=pg thread=6573 post=218058 time=1286247542
I'll stop eating beef lamb and pork the same day they start letting me eat vegetarians.