Author Topic: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington  (Read 386917 times)

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Offline Askold

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1965 on: January 18, 2018, 03:07:56 pm »
Do you really think that the GOP voters will blame the GOP? When they can conveniently blame the Democrats (and probably Hillary as well) instead?

After Fox news and Trump say that the Dems are to blame because they weren't flexible enough and put party over country anyone saying anything else will be "shills" and "fake news."
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline ironbite

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1966 on: January 18, 2018, 04:53:28 pm »
That only gets the hardcore crowd though.  The crowd that has no idea what's actually going on and will never ever vote for any Democrat ever.  That's a crowd the Democrats need not court anymore.  But for the moderates and independents?  Oh boy does that cost the GOP.

Ironbite-and considering how bad they've been doing in special elections lately, they have no clue how to stop it.

Offline Askold

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1967 on: January 20, 2018, 03:27:00 am »
EDIT: Nevermind, they fucked up as expected.


Let's see if controlling all branches of the US government is enough for the GOP to not manage to fuck things up.

Or if Trump's first inauguration anniversary will be government shutting down.

Someone joked that Trump was voted to run the government like a company and this is the phase where he declares bankruptcy and runs away with the money. (Which is pretty much what I said here a long time ago.)
« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 03:29:32 am by Askold »
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline The_Queen

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1968 on: January 20, 2018, 10:20:58 am »
We are gonna have a Government Shutdown because the Orange Piss Pot can't let go of his wall but will let go of CHIP.  Oh they'll try to blame the Dems for this but most of the GOP knows it's gonna be hollow blame considering they control the Government.

Ironbite-and with Trump's prediction of only a terrorists attack being able to save the GOP come November, I'm a bit scared.

This is seriously like something out of the Dark Knight: one boat with Dreamers and one boat with CHIP recipients, and Trump has given Schumer a button to blow up one of the ships...

Fuck, I just realized my Avatar his Harley Quinn and I described Trump as The Joker. Just ignore that, this simile isn't perfect.
Does anyone take Donald Trump seriously, anymore?

Offline Skybison

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1969 on: January 20, 2018, 11:55:16 am »
^I figured you're from a continuity where she dumps Joker for Poison Ivy.

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1970 on: January 20, 2018, 12:19:22 pm »
We are gonna have a Government Shutdown because the Orange Piss Pot can't let go of his wall but will let go of CHIP.  Oh they'll try to blame the Dems for this but most of the GOP knows it's gonna be hollow blame considering they control the Government.

Ironbite-and with Trump's prediction of only a terrorists attack being able to save the GOP come November, I'm a bit scared.

This is seriously like something out of the Dark Knight: one boat with Dreamers and one boat with CHIP recipients, and Trump has given Schumer a button to blow up one of the ships...

Fuck, I just realized my Avatar his Harley Quinn and I described Trump as The Joker. Just ignore that, this simile isn't perfect.

Which is why the Dems should also be insisting on entrenching Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, and legislatively restoring net neutrality. (The latter is pretty likely, since plenty of Republicans support it.) For that matter, repeal of federal criminal law on marijuana (or at a minimum a ban on the use of federal resources to enforce marijuana laws in states that have repealed their criminal laws on the matter) is another one that can win Republican support (just look at Cory Gardner's reaction). Ask for all of that, and you'll get some of it.

Anyway, the GOP was particularly cruel with CHIP, because previously there had never been an issue reauthorizing it, until they decided they needed another hostage.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline The_Queen

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1971 on: January 20, 2018, 06:32:44 pm »
We are gonna have a Government Shutdown because the Orange Piss Pot can't let go of his wall but will let go of CHIP.  Oh they'll try to blame the Dems for this but most of the GOP knows it's gonna be hollow blame considering they control the Government.

Ironbite-and with Trump's prediction of only a terrorists attack being able to save the GOP come November, I'm a bit scared.

This is seriously like something out of the Dark Knight: one boat with Dreamers and one boat with CHIP recipients, and Trump has given Schumer a button to blow up one of the ships...

Fuck, I just realized my Avatar his Harley Quinn and I described Trump as The Joker. Just ignore that, this simile isn't perfect.

Which is why the Dems should also be insisting on entrenching Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, and legislatively restoring net neutrality. (The latter is pretty likely, since plenty of Republicans support it.) For that matter, repeal of federal criminal law on marijuana (or at a minimum a ban on the use of federal resources to enforce marijuana laws in states that have repealed their criminal laws on the matter) is another one that can win Republican support (just look at Cory Gardner's reaction). Ask for all of that, and you'll get some of it.

Anyway, the GOP was particularly cruel with CHIP, because previously there had never been an issue reauthorizing it, until they decided they needed another hostage.

Yeah, remember last time you held out for everything (Bernie and Jill) and got nothing (Trump)... It doesn't quite work that way.
Does anyone take Donald Trump seriously, anymore?

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1972 on: January 20, 2018, 09:06:06 pm »
We are gonna have a Government Shutdown because the Orange Piss Pot can't let go of his wall but will let go of CHIP.  Oh they'll try to blame the Dems for this but most of the GOP knows it's gonna be hollow blame considering they control the Government.

Ironbite-and with Trump's prediction of only a terrorists attack being able to save the GOP come November, I'm a bit scared.

This is seriously like something out of the Dark Knight: one boat with Dreamers and one boat with CHIP recipients, and Trump has given Schumer a button to blow up one of the ships...

Fuck, I just realized my Avatar his Harley Quinn and I described Trump as The Joker. Just ignore that, this simile isn't perfect.

Which is why the Dems should also be insisting on entrenching Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, and legislatively restoring net neutrality. (The latter is pretty likely, since plenty of Republicans support it.) For that matter, repeal of federal criminal law on marijuana (or at a minimum a ban on the use of federal resources to enforce marijuana laws in states that have repealed their criminal laws on the matter) is another one that can win Republican support (just look at Cory Gardner's reaction). Ask for all of that, and you'll get some of it.

Anyway, the GOP was particularly cruel with CHIP, because previously there had never been an issue reauthorizing it, until they decided they needed another hostage.

Yeah, remember last time you held out for everything (Bernie and Jill) and got nothing (Trump)... It doesn't quite work that way.

Did I say anything about holding out for everything?

Quote
Ask for all of that, and you'll get some of it.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline The_Queen

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1973 on: January 20, 2018, 10:33:20 pm »
We are gonna have a Government Shutdown because the Orange Piss Pot can't let go of his wall but will let go of CHIP.  Oh they'll try to blame the Dems for this but most of the GOP knows it's gonna be hollow blame considering they control the Government.

Ironbite-and with Trump's prediction of only a terrorists attack being able to save the GOP come November, I'm a bit scared.

This is seriously like something out of the Dark Knight: one boat with Dreamers and one boat with CHIP recipients, and Trump has given Schumer a button to blow up one of the ships...

Fuck, I just realized my Avatar his Harley Quinn and I described Trump as The Joker. Just ignore that, this simile isn't perfect.

Which is why the Dems should also be insisting on entrenching Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, and legislatively restoring net neutrality. (The latter is pretty likely, since plenty of Republicans support it.) For that matter, repeal of federal criminal law on marijuana (or at a minimum a ban on the use of federal resources to enforce marijuana laws in states that have repealed their criminal laws on the matter) is another one that can win Republican support (just look at Cory Gardner's reaction). Ask for all of that, and you'll get some of it.

Anyway, the GOP was particularly cruel with CHIP, because previously there had never been an issue reauthorizing it, until they decided they needed another hostage.

Yeah, remember last time you held out for everything (Bernie and Jill) and got nothing (Trump)... It doesn't quite work that way.

Did I say anything about holding out for everything?

Quote
Ask for all of that, and you'll get some of it.

Some of it when? After the government shuts down? After people are out of work for however long? Fact is, they could shut the government down asking for all of it, but then they'd be the ones shutting down the government, they'd get the blame, they'd take a hit in public polls, and good luck winning the House or the Senate.
Does anyone take Donald Trump seriously, anymore?

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1974 on: January 21, 2018, 01:11:36 am »
We are gonna have a Government Shutdown because the Orange Piss Pot can't let go of his wall but will let go of CHIP.  Oh they'll try to blame the Dems for this but most of the GOP knows it's gonna be hollow blame considering they control the Government.

Ironbite-and with Trump's prediction of only a terrorists attack being able to save the GOP come November, I'm a bit scared.

This is seriously like something out of the Dark Knight: one boat with Dreamers and one boat with CHIP recipients, and Trump has given Schumer a button to blow up one of the ships...

Fuck, I just realized my Avatar his Harley Quinn and I described Trump as The Joker. Just ignore that, this simile isn't perfect.

Which is why the Dems should also be insisting on entrenching Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, and legislatively restoring net neutrality. (The latter is pretty likely, since plenty of Republicans support it.) For that matter, repeal of federal criminal law on marijuana (or at a minimum a ban on the use of federal resources to enforce marijuana laws in states that have repealed their criminal laws on the matter) is another one that can win Republican support (just look at Cory Gardner's reaction). Ask for all of that, and you'll get some of it.

Anyway, the GOP was particularly cruel with CHIP, because previously there had never been an issue reauthorizing it, until they decided they needed another hostage.

Yeah, remember last time you held out for everything (Bernie and Jill) and got nothing (Trump)... It doesn't quite work that way.

Did I say anything about holding out for everything?

Quote
Ask for all of that, and you'll get some of it.

Some of it when? After the government shuts down? After people are out of work for however long? Fact is, they could shut the government down asking for all of it, but then they'd be the ones shutting down the government, they'd get the blame, they'd take a hit in public polls, and good luck winning the House or the Senate.

No, before that, when the GOP are trying to get the Democratic votes they need in the Senate.

We know that the public will blame the GOP for a shutdown over the Democrats.

We also know that everything I mentioned--net neutrality, protecting Dreamers, funding CHIP, and protecting Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid--are popular (at least 60% on each). Legalization of marijuana's also pretty popular.

If you're asking for popular things, then you have the edge in messaging--we were asking for these highly popular things, and the GOP wouldn't give us any of them. It does not mean that you refuse to sign off on anything that doesn't include all of them.

The problem is that you don't start from the position you'd be happy to end up at. You start from a position beyond that (but not one that is unreasonable) so that you can reach the compromise you wanted all along. And the Democrats have been doing the former for far too long.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline The_Queen

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1975 on: January 21, 2018, 03:27:23 am »
No, before that, when the GOP are trying to get the Democratic votes they need in the Senate.

We know that the public will blame the GOP for a shutdown over the Democrats.

We also know that everything I mentioned--net neutrality, protecting Dreamers, funding CHIP, and protecting Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid--are popular (at least 60% on each). Legalization of marijuana's also pretty popular.

If you're asking for popular things, then you have the edge in messaging--we were asking for these highly popular things, and the GOP wouldn't give us any of them. It does not mean that you refuse to sign off on anything that doesn't include all of them.

The problem is that you don't start from the position you'd be happy to end up at. You start from a position beyond that (but not one that is unreasonable) so that you can reach the compromise you wanted all along. And the Democrats have been doing the former for far too long.

The fatal flaw to your reasoning is that even though those things are popular (and to varying degrees necessary), they are not more immediately necessary than funding the government. Theoretically, you could pass a clean raise to the debt ceiling and then subsequently address those issues, a point which is not lost on most American voters. In fact, in 2013 when the GOP shutdown the government to repeal the ACA, the law only had an approval rating of 40%, with a 50.5% disapproval rating. Nevertheless, the GOP was largely blamed for the shutdown, and voters simply felt that while the ACA was unpopular, it did not warrant shutting down the government.
Does anyone take Donald Trump seriously, anymore?

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1976 on: January 21, 2018, 01:47:21 pm »
No, before that, when the GOP are trying to get the Democratic votes they need in the Senate.

We know that the public will blame the GOP for a shutdown over the Democrats.

We also know that everything I mentioned--net neutrality, protecting Dreamers, funding CHIP, and protecting Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid--are popular (at least 60% on each). Legalization of marijuana's also pretty popular.

If you're asking for popular things, then you have the edge in messaging--we were asking for these highly popular things, and the GOP wouldn't give us any of them. It does not mean that you refuse to sign off on anything that doesn't include all of them.

The problem is that you don't start from the position you'd be happy to end up at. You start from a position beyond that (but not one that is unreasonable) so that you can reach the compromise you wanted all along. And the Democrats have been doing the former for far too long.

The fatal flaw to your reasoning is that even though those things are popular (and to varying degrees necessary), they are not more immediately necessary than funding the government. Theoretically, you could pass a clean raise to the debt ceiling and then subsequently address those issues, a point which is not lost on most American voters. In fact, in 2013 when the GOP shutdown the government to repeal the ACA, the law only had an approval rating of 40%, with a 50.5% disapproval rating. Nevertheless, the GOP was largely blamed for the shutdown, and voters simply felt that while the ACA was unpopular, it did not warrant shutting down the government.

Okay, then, when do you fight for those policies?
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline The_Queen

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1977 on: January 21, 2018, 02:08:29 pm »
No, before that, when the GOP are trying to get the Democratic votes they need in the Senate.

We know that the public will blame the GOP for a shutdown over the Democrats.

We also know that everything I mentioned--net neutrality, protecting Dreamers, funding CHIP, and protecting Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid--are popular (at least 60% on each). Legalization of marijuana's also pretty popular.

If you're asking for popular things, then you have the edge in messaging--we were asking for these highly popular things, and the GOP wouldn't give us any of them. It does not mean that you refuse to sign off on anything that doesn't include all of them.

The problem is that you don't start from the position you'd be happy to end up at. You start from a position beyond that (but not one that is unreasonable) so that you can reach the compromise you wanted all along. And the Democrats have been doing the former for far too long.

The fatal flaw to your reasoning is that even though those things are popular (and to varying degrees necessary), they are not more immediately necessary than funding the government. Theoretically, you could pass a clean raise to the debt ceiling and then subsequently address those issues, a point which is not lost on most American voters. In fact, in 2013 when the GOP shutdown the government to repeal the ACA, the law only had an approval rating of 40%, with a 50.5% disapproval rating. Nevertheless, the GOP was largely blamed for the shutdown, and voters simply felt that while the ACA was unpopular, it did not warrant shutting down the government.

Okay, then, when do you fight for those policies?

I don't know. Nevertheless, discretion is the better part of valor. If dems did as you wanted, they would inevitably be blamed for the shutdown for making such pie-in-the-sky demands. If they're blamed, they'd take a hit in the generic party ballot poll, which directly correlates to mid-term success.

So the calculus here is not "ask for everything, get something." The calculus is (1) does the GOP cave first and acquiesce when they're not being blamed for it, and (2) assuming they do, does that short term win justify costing the dems the House and the Senate (and at the time, Fivethirtyeight is saying the House is 50-50, while the Senate has about a 22% chance of flipping). Fact is,  the GOP will not acquiesce (they're being blamed for this shutdown because they are trying to roll back large portions of the ACA, and we still wound up in shutdown land). If the GOP does not acquiesce, then the dems get nothing by way of policy, and only hurt their chances of winning a chamber of Congress, which could be instrumental to stopping the next round of tax cuts for the wealthy or the next attempt to take health care away from 30 million people.
Does anyone take Donald Trump seriously, anymore?

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1978 on: January 21, 2018, 06:07:08 pm »
So Bannon was forced to testify for the Congress and said that he doesn't have to answer about anything that happened in the White house because Trump told him not to...

I guess he forgot that he could just say "I don't remember" 50 times in a row and that is perfectly legal. Because though both are shady we now have a Bannon on record saying that those specific topics are things that he was forbidden to talk about.
It could be a ploy by Bannon to hint that he does indeed have dirt and will release it unless Trump throws him a lifeline. Trump is shite at interpreting hints.

Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1979 on: January 21, 2018, 06:22:51 pm »
A view into how when you dehumanize people with terms like "illegals" they become some far away "other". Some Trump voters are shocked that their friends and members of their community are now being deported.

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-42667659/the-missing-consequences-of-trump-s-immigration-crackdown