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...I really wish I could smack that person with a cluebat.I really wish that there was a mystical club-shaped object out there that could instill actual knowledge and wisdom to people smacked with it. Along with pain. Mental pain over their previous stupidity. Physical pain over being hit with a club-shaped object.
I really wish that there was a mystical club-shaped object out there that could instill actual knowledge and wisdom to people smacked with it. Along with pain. Mental pain over their previous stupidity. Physical pain over being hit with a club-shaped object.
Quote from: Magus Silveresti on June 03, 2014, 10:10:37 pm...I really wish I could smack that person with a cluebat.I really wish that there was a mystical club-shaped object out there that could instill actual knowledge and wisdom to people smacked with it. Along with pain. Mental pain over their previous stupidity. Physical pain over being hit with a club-shaped object.Which person?
The analogy doesn’t work for any of those other groups…..Men “scaring the bejesus” out of you isn’t the same thing as actually being in danger. Racists probably have plenty of stories about black guys “scaring the bejesus” out of them. And “wearing someone down” is the exact opposite of entitlement. You don’t work for things you feel you are entitled to…
And TheFrogman manages to say something ten times better than I could. Yes, this is relevant. (click to show/hide)Quote from: thefrogmanQuote from: trappedinpissoh, you say not all muslims are terrorists? imagine a bowl of m&m's.... oh, you say not all black people are criminals? imagine a bowl of m&m's.... oh, you say not all women cut their husbands' penises off and murder them while they sleep? imagine a bowl of m&m's.... oh, you say not all jewish people are greedy? imagine a bowl of m&m's....My original quote was…You say not all men are monsters?Imagine a bowl of M&Ms. 10% of them are poisoned.Go ahead. Eat a handful.Not all M&Ms are poison.This was merely an explanation of why women and female presenting folks are cautious of men. Especially after recent events.But you want to take an analogy about an oppressive group and try substituting marginalized groups in their stead? I don’t see how that is the same.I feel like you think you have a super clever “gotcha” point there, but honestly you are just being racist and using false equivalencies. Try replacing men with other oppressive groups and suddenly the analogy works again.Not all CEOs are corrupt? Not all police use brutal force?Not all of the conservative leadership are racist, sexist bags of crap? Not all of the congressional committees for reproductive rights are chaired by a bunch of old white dudes?Imagine a bowl of M&Ms. 98% of them are poison. Throw them up in the air and move to the moon. The analogy seems to still work when other oppressive groups are substituted. The way it was intended to be understood. Men are saying that women have no reason to fear them and are bad people if they do. Yet every woman has experienced harassment. Catcalled in the street. Many have been groped. Many face constant sexism in the workplace. And have you seen what happens when a woman opens an OKCupid account? Worst of all, 1 in 6 have been sexually assaulted. That is an astounding statistic.Talk to pretty much any woman and you will find that they have not just one story of men scaring the bejesus out of them… they have many. This is not an insignificant problem where they can throw caution to the wind and start trusting all the menfolk. And when these shootings happened and it was revealed that a huge component of this person’s anger was that women rejected him, the prospect of merely rejecting the advances of men has become an even more frightening matter than it already was. Fear is not something easily controlled and you want to tell women to turn it off like a light switch? We are not properly educating our youth about consent. We are not properly teaching men that they have no entitlement to a woman’s body. We still have common phrases like, “Wearing her down” and “playing hard to get.” That Blurred Lines song was an anthem for dudebros across the nation.Until we take major steps to destroy this attitude of entitlement, teach people that rejection is a normal part of life that should not be seen as some grave insult or a challenge to be conquered—woman and female presenting folks are going to have a cautious fear of men. If you want to stop being seen as a danger, the onus is on us as men. We need to start teaching each other how to stop seeing women as prizes to be won. We need to eliminate this culture of entitlement.
Quote from: trappedinpissoh, you say not all muslims are terrorists? imagine a bowl of m&m's.... oh, you say not all black people are criminals? imagine a bowl of m&m's.... oh, you say not all women cut their husbands' penises off and murder them while they sleep? imagine a bowl of m&m's.... oh, you say not all jewish people are greedy? imagine a bowl of m&m's....My original quote was…You say not all men are monsters?Imagine a bowl of M&Ms. 10% of them are poisoned.Go ahead. Eat a handful.Not all M&Ms are poison.This was merely an explanation of why women and female presenting folks are cautious of men. Especially after recent events.But you want to take an analogy about an oppressive group and try substituting marginalized groups in their stead? I don’t see how that is the same.I feel like you think you have a super clever “gotcha” point there, but honestly you are just being racist and using false equivalencies. Try replacing men with other oppressive groups and suddenly the analogy works again.Not all CEOs are corrupt? Not all police use brutal force?Not all of the conservative leadership are racist, sexist bags of crap? Not all of the congressional committees for reproductive rights are chaired by a bunch of old white dudes?Imagine a bowl of M&Ms. 98% of them are poison. Throw them up in the air and move to the moon. The analogy seems to still work when other oppressive groups are substituted. The way it was intended to be understood. Men are saying that women have no reason to fear them and are bad people if they do. Yet every woman has experienced harassment. Catcalled in the street. Many have been groped. Many face constant sexism in the workplace. And have you seen what happens when a woman opens an OKCupid account? Worst of all, 1 in 6 have been sexually assaulted. That is an astounding statistic.Talk to pretty much any woman and you will find that they have not just one story of men scaring the bejesus out of them… they have many. This is not an insignificant problem where they can throw caution to the wind and start trusting all the menfolk. And when these shootings happened and it was revealed that a huge component of this person’s anger was that women rejected him, the prospect of merely rejecting the advances of men has become an even more frightening matter than it already was. Fear is not something easily controlled and you want to tell women to turn it off like a light switch? We are not properly educating our youth about consent. We are not properly teaching men that they have no entitlement to a woman’s body. We still have common phrases like, “Wearing her down” and “playing hard to get.” That Blurred Lines song was an anthem for dudebros across the nation.Until we take major steps to destroy this attitude of entitlement, teach people that rejection is a normal part of life that should not be seen as some grave insult or a challenge to be conquered—woman and female presenting folks are going to have a cautious fear of men. If you want to stop being seen as a danger, the onus is on us as men. We need to start teaching each other how to stop seeing women as prizes to be won. We need to eliminate this culture of entitlement.
oh, you say not all muslims are terrorists? imagine a bowl of m&m's.... oh, you say not all black people are criminals? imagine a bowl of m&m's.... oh, you say not all women cut their husbands' penises off and murder them while they sleep? imagine a bowl of m&m's.... oh, you say not all jewish people are greedy? imagine a bowl of m&m's....
Quote from: Magus Silveresti on June 03, 2014, 09:09:12 pmAnd TheFrogman manages to say something ten times better than I could. Yes, this is relevant. (click to show/hide)Quote from: thefrogmanQuote from: trappedinpissoh, you say not all muslims are terrorists? imagine a bowl of m&m's.... oh, you say not all black people are criminals? imagine a bowl of m&m's.... oh, you say not all women cut their husbands' penises off and murder them while they sleep? imagine a bowl of m&m's.... oh, you say not all jewish people are greedy? imagine a bowl of m&m's....My original quote was…You say not all men are monsters?Imagine a bowl of M&Ms. 10% of them are poisoned.Go ahead. Eat a handful.Not all M&Ms are poison.This was merely an explanation of why women and female presenting folks are cautious of men. Especially after recent events.But you want to take an analogy about an oppressive group and try substituting marginalized groups in their stead? I don’t see how that is the same.I feel like you think you have a super clever “gotcha” point there, but honestly you are just being racist and using false equivalencies. Try replacing men with other oppressive groups and suddenly the analogy works again.Not all CEOs are corrupt? Not all police use brutal force?Not all of the conservative leadership are racist, sexist bags of crap? Not all of the congressional committees for reproductive rights are chaired by a bunch of old white dudes?Imagine a bowl of M&Ms. 98% of them are poison. Throw them up in the air and move to the moon. The analogy seems to still work when other oppressive groups are substituted. The way it was intended to be understood. Men are saying that women have no reason to fear them and are bad people if they do. Yet every woman has experienced harassment. Catcalled in the street. Many have been groped. Many face constant sexism in the workplace. And have you seen what happens when a woman opens an OKCupid account? Worst of all, 1 in 6 have been sexually assaulted. That is an astounding statistic.Talk to pretty much any woman and you will find that they have not just one story of men scaring the bejesus out of them… they have many. This is not an insignificant problem where they can throw caution to the wind and start trusting all the menfolk. And when these shootings happened and it was revealed that a huge component of this person’s anger was that women rejected him, the prospect of merely rejecting the advances of men has become an even more frightening matter than it already was. Fear is not something easily controlled and you want to tell women to turn it off like a light switch? We are not properly educating our youth about consent. We are not properly teaching men that they have no entitlement to a woman’s body. We still have common phrases like, “Wearing her down” and “playing hard to get.” That Blurred Lines song was an anthem for dudebros across the nation.Until we take major steps to destroy this attitude of entitlement, teach people that rejection is a normal part of life that should not be seen as some grave insult or a challenge to be conquered—woman and female presenting folks are going to have a cautious fear of men. If you want to stop being seen as a danger, the onus is on us as men. We need to start teaching each other how to stop seeing women as prizes to be won. We need to eliminate this culture of entitlement.To be honest, I think the whole "it works for oppressive groups" thing just shows that the analogy isn't doing anything other than reflecting existing feelings about the group. There's no point to making the analogy if you're not actually reacting to the analogous situation, just to the group to which the analogy is being applied.Just say "I think it's fair to make some judgements about a group based on its worst members, but only for some groups". The M&M's are not clarifying the issue.(actually this is a problem with a lot of analogy-based arguments)
Quote from: I am lizard on June 03, 2014, 10:14:50 pmQuote from: Magus Silveresti on June 03, 2014, 10:10:37 pm...I really wish I could smack that person with a cluebat.I really wish that there was a mystical club-shaped object out there that could instill actual knowledge and wisdom to people smacked with it. Along with pain. Mental pain over their previous stupidity. Physical pain over being hit with a club-shaped object.Which person?The one that said this:QuoteThe analogy doesn’t work for any of those other groups…..Men “scaring the bejesus” out of you isn’t the same thing as actually being in danger. Racists probably have plenty of stories about black guys “scaring the bejesus” out of them. And “wearing someone down” is the exact opposite of entitlement. You don’t work for things you feel you are entitled to…
Personally, I think Frogman's analogy is kind of dumb, because he's assuming that men automatically have power over women.
Guys, this is getting creepy. Can we talk about cannibalism instead?
How many times have you deleted your previous post and replaced it?
