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Rubbish => Preaching and Worship => Topic started by: Jacob Harrison on July 23, 2018, 08:56:44 am

Title: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 23, 2018, 08:56:44 am
When I temporarily left Roman Catholicism, I started masturbating because I no longer considered masturbation to be a sin. However now that I am Roman Catholic again, I am now obeying Roman Catholic doctrine that condemns masturbation.

Masturbation is a sexual act of ejaculating semen when having fantasies about someone who is not your spouse. It is basically sex without intercourse.

Mathew 5:28 says

“But I say to you, that whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart.”

Masturbation is adultry in the heart because in most cases, it involves fantasies involving people you know. When I was an apostate, I masturbated to girls from my college, young female teachers I had including ones that were married. In my heart, I had sex with them. And a question to female users here, wouldn’t you feel violated and disrespected if you found out that men masturbated to you?

So you all should stop masturbating. If you are so tempted to do so, you should handcuff your hands. You may consider not masturbating to be torture but it is not. It reduces your sexual urges so that you have better things to do than fantasize, and when you are having an erection, not masturbating lengthens the time that you are having the wonderful erection, and it also increases the amount of sexual dreams you have.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Art Vandelay on July 23, 2018, 09:20:29 am
And lo, we have come full circle.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Askold on July 23, 2018, 09:29:32 am
I was kinda hoping that he'd go for Orthodox Christianity next.

After all, it is the conventional branch of Christianity.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: dpareja on July 23, 2018, 10:57:02 am
Oh, right. The Bible (Old and New Testaments) includes thoughtcrime.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 23, 2018, 11:23:32 am
Oh, right. The Bible (Old and New Testaments) includes thoughtcrime.

Looking at a woman with lust, and masturbation is not a thought crime because they are controllable actions not thoughts.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: dpareja on July 23, 2018, 11:42:00 am
Oh, right. The Bible (Old and New Testaments) includes thoughtcrime.

Looking at a woman with lust, and masturbation is not a thought crime because they are controllable actions not thoughts.

I'll concede that masturbation is an action (how could it not be, after all), but lust is an emotion, a thought. Banning that creates thoughtcrimes.

(Of course, banning masturbation is idiotic.)
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 23, 2018, 11:55:44 am
Oh, right. The Bible (Old and New Testaments) includes thoughtcrime.

Looking at a woman with lust, and masturbation is not a thought crime because they are controllable actions not thoughts.

I'll concede that masturbation is an action (how could it not be, after all), but lust is an emotion, a thought. Banning that creates thoughtcrimes.

(Of course, banning masturbation is idiotic.)

But looking at a woman with lust is an action.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: dpareja on July 23, 2018, 12:32:51 pm
Oh, right. The Bible (Old and New Testaments) includes thoughtcrime.

Looking at a woman with lust, and masturbation is not a thought crime because they are controllable actions not thoughts.

I'll concede that masturbation is an action (how could it not be, after all), but lust is an emotion, a thought. Banning that creates thoughtcrimes.

(Of course, banning masturbation is idiotic.)

But looking at a woman with lust is an action.

Looking is an action (though one that you cannot always avoid--it'd look really weird if you always averted your eyes from any woman, like, say, your coworker or your boss), but lust is a thought.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 23, 2018, 02:21:47 pm
Oh, right. The Bible (Old and New Testaments) includes thoughtcrime.

Looking at a woman with lust, and masturbation is not a thought crime because they are controllable actions not thoughts.

I'll concede that masturbation is an action (how could it not be, after all), but lust is an emotion, a thought. Banning that creates thoughtcrimes.

(Of course, banning masturbation is idiotic.)

But looking at a woman with lust is an action.

Looking is an action (though one that you cannot always avoid--it'd look really weird if you always averted your eyes from any woman, like, say, your coworker or your boss), but lust is a thought.

What is a controllable action is looking with the intent to lust.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: dpareja on July 23, 2018, 02:37:07 pm
Oh, right. The Bible (Old and New Testaments) includes thoughtcrime.

Looking at a woman with lust, and masturbation is not a thought crime because they are controllable actions not thoughts.

I'll concede that masturbation is an action (how could it not be, after all), but lust is an emotion, a thought. Banning that creates thoughtcrimes.

(Of course, banning masturbation is idiotic.)

But looking at a woman with lust is an action.

Looking is an action (though one that you cannot always avoid--it'd look really weird if you always averted your eyes from any woman, like, say, your coworker or your boss), but lust is a thought.

What is a controllable action is looking with the intent to lust.

And if I look (because it would be impolite not to) and then incidentally lust?

Oh, and criminalizing intent, now. Yep, let's keep on with those thoughtcrimes.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 23, 2018, 03:48:23 pm
Oh, right. The Bible (Old and New Testaments) includes thoughtcrime.

Looking at a woman with lust, and masturbation is not a thought crime because they are controllable actions not thoughts.

I'll concede that masturbation is an action (how could it not be, after all), but lust is an emotion, a thought. Banning that creates thoughtcrimes.

(Of course, banning masturbation is idiotic.)

But looking at a woman with lust is an action.

Looking is an action (though one that you cannot always avoid--it'd look really weird if you always averted your eyes from any woman, like, say, your coworker or your boss), but lust is a thought.

What is a controllable action is looking with the intent to lust.

And if I look (because it would be impolite not to) and then incidentally lust?

Oh, and criminalizing intent, now. Yep, let's keep on with those thoughtcrimes.

Of course we all lust. That is fine, as long as we do not deliberately try to do so.

And no it is not criminalizing intent, it means it is a sin to deliberately look for the purpose of lusting which is an action not a thought.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: ironbite on July 23, 2018, 04:06:45 pm
So how many times did you toot your own horn after seeing your second cousin in a towel then?

Ironbite-come on don't be bashful, ballpark 5-6 you fucking animal.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 23, 2018, 05:26:13 pm
I would have thought Jacob would have been more interested in evidence suggesting the anti gay bits of Leviticus were edited into being by a most probably man who, interestingly enough, smudged out the bits defining incest as something a father shouldn't do to his daughter or an uncle to his niece.
 (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/21/opinion/sunday/bible-prohibit-gay-sex.html)
So, just Jacob's type of fella. Virulently homophobic and has the hots for people way too closely related to him.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: davedan on July 23, 2018, 05:58:59 pm
I am not sure whether I am impressed or disappointed that he didn't bring up the story of Onan.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 23, 2018, 06:25:30 pm
I am not sure whether I am impressed or disappointed that he didn't bring up the story of Onan.
Remembering that Onan's sin wasn't so much fapping as dropping that seed on the ground instead of making more lil' soldiers for Yahweh with it.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 23, 2018, 08:05:58 pm
I am not sure whether I am impressed or disappointed that he didn't bring up the story of Onan.

I thought about it, but decided to include this New Testament verse because it’s from the New Testament. But Onan is also an example of biblical condemnation of masturbation.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 23, 2018, 08:37:37 pm
I am not sure whether I am impressed or disappointed that he didn't bring up the story of Onan.

I thought about it, but decided to include this New Testament verse because it’s from the New Testament. But Onan is also an example of biblical condemnation of masturbation.
By all means don't bust a nut. Your repressed sexual impulses lead to plenty of hilariously batshit copy.

So hold on to that lily-white virginity and not on to your poor neglected pecker. Let those blue balls hang. G'wan, amuse us Jakey-boy.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: niam2023 on July 23, 2018, 09:50:50 pm
Nah I'm not gonna obey some sort of idiotic religious doctrine.

The whole "wouldn't she be offended you were THINKING of her like that" is some thoughtcrime shit. And no, I wouldn't care if some prude was offended I was masturbating about them. It'd make my dick harder.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Lana Reverse on July 23, 2018, 09:58:38 pm
I am not sure whether I am impressed or disappointed that he didn't bring up the story of Onan.

I thought about it, but decided to include this New Testament verse because it’s from the New Testament. But Onan is also an example of biblical condemnation of masturbation.

Just like you fundies, stripping context so that you can justify your little agendas.

Quote from: Genesis 38:6-10
Judah got a wife named Tamar for his firstborn, Er. But Er, Judah's firstborn, greatly offended the Lord, so the Lord took his life. Then Judah said to Onan, "Unite with your brother's widow, in fulfillment of your duty as brother-in-law, and thus preserve your brother's line."

Onan, however, knew that the descendants would not be counted as his; so, whenever he had relations with his brother's widow, he wasted his seed on the ground, to avoid contributing offspring for his brother. What he did greatly offended the Lord, and the Lord took his life too.

Onan wasn't killed for spilling his seed, but for not performing his Levirate duty out of greed. Read this (https://blogs.bible.org/engage/sandra_glahn/contraception_onan_and_natural_law) for a more in-depth explanation.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 24, 2018, 07:33:53 am
I am not sure whether I am impressed or disappointed that he didn't bring up the story of Onan.

I thought about it, but decided to include this New Testament verse because it’s from the New Testament. But Onan is also an example of biblical condemnation of masturbation.

Just like you fundies, stripping context so that you can justify your little agendas.

Quote from: Genesis 38:6-10
Judah got a wife named Tamar for his firstborn, Er. But Er, Judah's firstborn, greatly offended the Lord, so the Lord took his life. Then Judah said to Onan, "Unite with your brother's widow, in fulfillment of your duty as brother-in-law, and thus preserve your brother's line."

Onan, however, knew that the descendants would not be counted as his; so, whenever he had relations with his brother's widow, he wasted his seed on the ground, to avoid contributing offspring for his brother. What he did greatly offended the Lord, and the Lord took his life too.

Onan wasn't killed for spilling his seed, but for not performing his Levirate duty out of greed. Read this (https://blogs.bible.org/engage/sandra_glahn/contraception_onan_and_natural_law) for a more in-depth explanation.

Correct, that was the reason he was killed, however the verse also implies that spilling the seed goes against what the natural purpose of using the sexual organ’s for reproductive purposes.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Lana Reverse on July 24, 2018, 11:01:08 am
I am not sure whether I am impressed or disappointed that he didn't bring up the story of Onan.

I thought about it, but decided to include this New Testament verse because it’s from the New Testament. But Onan is also an example of biblical condemnation of masturbation.

Just like you fundies, stripping context so that you can justify your little agendas.

Quote from: Genesis 38:6-10
Judah got a wife named Tamar for his firstborn, Er. But Er, Judah's firstborn, greatly offended the Lord, so the Lord took his life. Then Judah said to Onan, "Unite with your brother's widow, in fulfillment of your duty as brother-in-law, and thus preserve your brother's line."

Onan, however, knew that the descendants would not be counted as his; so, whenever he had relations with his brother's widow, he wasted his seed on the ground, to avoid contributing offspring for his brother. What he did greatly offended the Lord, and the Lord took his life too.

Onan wasn't killed for spilling his seed, but for not performing his Levirate duty out of greed. Read this (https://blogs.bible.org/engage/sandra_glahn/contraception_onan_and_natural_law) for a more in-depth explanation.

Correct, that was the reason he was killed, however the verse also implies that spilling the seed goes against what the natural purpose of using the sexual organ’s for reproductive purposes.

How so?

And what are your thoughts on female masturbation? Or accidental masturbation, for that matter?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td4lgBVykGo
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Art Vandelay on July 24, 2018, 11:29:23 am
Well, if my worm burping habits really pisses on Sky Daddy's nipples this much, I feel like he can at least tell me in person. If you are the best he can muster, I somewhat suspect that he's not quite as powerful as he'd have us all believe.

Hell, what if you've got it all wrong, and it really fingers his funpipe when folks consult with Professor Hans Jerkhoff? It'd explain why he does absolutely nothing to stop me from dropping trou and shaking the serpent. Not to mention, why he sent you your second cousin in a towel, as well as your constant and and insatiable denim boners. In fact, what if he's just a massive pervert who created the whole universe just so he could watch people bash the bishop? If every time you refuse make hand love to your throbbing man kebab, you're straying further and further from his light? What then? You'll find yourself banished to purgatory, only to be granted entry to the Kingdom of Heaven after you've filled the bucket. Is that truly what you want? I don't think it is. After all, Heaven has lightning fast 200kb/s wi-fi and all the tissue, Vasaline and towel-clad second cousins you could ever wish for.

Renounce your heretical ways, and release your Holy Water from their twin prisons, or risk the ire of Saint Peter the Beater at the Pearl Necklace Gates. Eternal bliss, and your second cousin's barely covered vagina await you, if only you embrace The Lord through your own todger.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 24, 2018, 12:45:11 pm
I am not sure whether I am impressed or disappointed that he didn't bring up the story of Onan.

I thought about it, but decided to include this New Testament verse because it’s from the New Testament. But Onan is also an example of biblical condemnation of masturbation.

Just like you fundies, stripping context so that you can justify your little agendas.

Quote from: Genesis 38:6-10
Judah got a wife named Tamar for his firstborn, Er. But Er, Judah's firstborn, greatly offended the Lord, so the Lord took his life. Then Judah said to Onan, "Unite with your brother's widow, in fulfillment of your duty as brother-in-law, and thus preserve your brother's line."

Onan, however, knew that the descendants would not be counted as his; so, whenever he had relations with his brother's widow, he wasted his seed on the ground, to avoid contributing offspring for his brother. What he did greatly offended the Lord, and the Lord took his life too.

Onan wasn't killed for spilling his seed, but for not performing his Levirate duty out of greed. Read this (https://blogs.bible.org/engage/sandra_glahn/contraception_onan_and_natural_law) for a more in-depth explanation.

Correct, that was the reason he was killed, however the verse also implies that spilling the seed goes against what the natural purpose of using the sexual organ’s for reproductive purposes.

How so?

And what are your thoughts on female masturbation? Or accidental masturbation, for that matter?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td4lgBVykGo

Because it is referred to as wasting his seed, implying that it is a waste to ejaculate semen for not reproductive purposes.

The Catholic Church condemns male masturbation and female masturbation. And how can masturbation be accidental? I know about accidental orgasms happening in sleep, but that does not involve touching the genitals.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Lana Reverse on July 24, 2018, 01:59:03 pm
I am not sure whether I am impressed or disappointed that he didn't bring up the story of Onan.

I thought about it, but decided to include this New Testament verse because it’s from the New Testament. But Onan is also an example of biblical condemnation of masturbation.

Just like you fundies, stripping context so that you can justify your little agendas.

Quote from: Genesis 38:6-10
Judah got a wife named Tamar for his firstborn, Er. But Er, Judah's firstborn, greatly offended the Lord, so the Lord took his life. Then Judah said to Onan, "Unite with your brother's widow, in fulfillment of your duty as brother-in-law, and thus preserve your brother's line."

Onan, however, knew that the descendants would not be counted as his; so, whenever he had relations with his brother's widow, he wasted his seed on the ground, to avoid contributing offspring for his brother. What he did greatly offended the Lord, and the Lord took his life too.

Onan wasn't killed for spilling his seed, but for not performing his Levirate duty out of greed. Read this (https://blogs.bible.org/engage/sandra_glahn/contraception_onan_and_natural_law) for a more in-depth explanation.

Correct, that was the reason he was killed, however the verse also implies that spilling the seed goes against what the natural purpose of using the sexual organ’s for reproductive purposes.

How so?

And what are your thoughts on female masturbation? Or accidental masturbation, for that matter?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td4lgBVykGo

Because it is referred to as wasting his seed, implying that it is a waste to ejaculate semen for not reproductive purposes.

The Catholic Church condemns male masturbation and female masturbation. And how can masturbation be accidental? I know about accidental orgasms happening in sleep, but that does not involve touching the genitals.

So what's wrong with female masturbation? That doesn't involve "wasting seed".

And did you watch the video I posted?
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 24, 2018, 04:43:16 pm
I am not sure whether I am impressed or disappointed that he didn't bring up the story of Onan.

I thought about it, but decided to include this New Testament verse because it’s from the New Testament. But Onan is also an example of biblical condemnation of masturbation.

Just like you fundies, stripping context so that you can justify your little agendas.

Quote from: Genesis 38:6-10
Judah got a wife named Tamar for his firstborn, Er. But Er, Judah's firstborn, greatly offended the Lord, so the Lord took his life. Then Judah said to Onan, "Unite with your brother's widow, in fulfillment of your duty as brother-in-law, and thus preserve your brother's line."

Onan, however, knew that the descendants would not be counted as his; so, whenever he had relations with his brother's widow, he wasted his seed on the ground, to avoid contributing offspring for his brother. What he did greatly offended the Lord, and the Lord took his life too.

Onan wasn't killed for spilling his seed, but for not performing his Levirate duty out of greed. Read this (https://blogs.bible.org/engage/sandra_glahn/contraception_onan_and_natural_law) for a more in-depth explanation.

Correct, that was the reason he was killed, however the verse also implies that spilling the seed goes against what the natural purpose of using the sexual organ’s for reproductive purposes.

How so?

And what are your thoughts on female masturbation? Or accidental masturbation, for that matter?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td4lgBVykGo

Because it is referred to as wasting his seed, implying that it is a waste to ejaculate semen for not reproductive purposes.

The Catholic Church condemns male masturbation and female masturbation. And how can masturbation be accidental? I know about accidental orgasms happening in sleep, but that does not involve touching the genitals.

So what's wrong with female masturbation? That doesn't involve "wasting seed".

And did you watch the video I posted?

Well since the bible condemns commiting adultry in the heart, it implies, that both male masturbation and female masturbation is both sex in the heart.

And yeah I saw that video. I don't think that Go Kart racing could cause accidental masturbation because your hands are on the steering wheel.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 24, 2018, 05:03:15 pm
Depends what you're steering with.

Hey Jacob, in that five minute oink video were you...

Yeah, now it makes sense.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Lana Reverse on July 24, 2018, 08:58:02 pm
Well since the bible condemns commiting adultry in the heart, it implies, that both male masturbation and female masturbation is both sex in the heart.

And yeah I saw that video. I don't think that Go Kart racing could cause accidental masturbation because your hands are on the steering wheel.

Why am I not surprised that you don't understand the female reproductive system?
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 24, 2018, 11:01:07 pm
Well since the bible condemns commiting adultry in the heart, it implies, that both male masturbation and female masturbation is both sex in the heart.

And yeah I saw that video. I don't think that Go Kart racing could cause accidental masturbation because your hands are on the steering wheel.

Why am I not surprised that you don't understand the female reproductive system?
Just the female one?
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Lana Reverse on July 25, 2018, 12:00:45 am
Well since the bible condemns commiting adultry in the heart, it implies, that both male masturbation and female masturbation is both sex in the heart.

And yeah I saw that video. I don't think that Go Kart racing could cause accidental masturbation because your hands are on the steering wheel.

Why am I not surprised that you don't understand the female reproductive system?
Just the female one?

You're right, I was being too generous.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 25, 2018, 07:08:10 am
I know the reproductive system. The process of Meosis creates 4 haploid gametes with half of the genes. During sex, the sperm cells ejaculate from the penis into the woman’s vagina, and one sperm cell gets to the egg cell, and the genes mix to create a new organism with unique DNA proving that life begins at conception and abortion is murder.

What does this have to do with go kart racing causing accidental masturbation?
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 25, 2018, 08:14:00 am
The process of Meosis creates 4 haploid gameta with half of the genes. During sex, the sperm cells ejaculate...

Jakey-boy just reached the short shorts section of the Wrangler jeans catalogue!
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: dpareja on July 25, 2018, 11:43:08 am
Banning abortion is slavery.

Hey, if you can be hyperbolic...
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 25, 2018, 11:54:05 am
Banning abortion is slavery.

Hey, if you can be hyperbolic...

Banning abortion is banning infanticide.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: dpareja on July 25, 2018, 11:56:03 am
Banning abortion is slavery.

Hey, if you can be hyperbolic...

Banning abortion is banning infanticide.

Perhaps, but, I repeat, it is slavery.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Art Vandelay on July 25, 2018, 11:58:08 am
Banning rape is future infanticide.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 25, 2018, 12:01:08 pm
Banning abortion is slavery.

Hey, if you can be hyperbolic...

Banning abortion is banning infanticide.

Perhaps, but, I repeat, it is slavery.

How is it slavery?
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 25, 2018, 12:01:49 pm
Banning rape is future infanticide.

No because the infant does not exist yet.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Art Vandelay on July 25, 2018, 12:04:20 pm
Banning rape is future infanticide.

No because the infant does not exist yet.

No shit, that's why I said future infanticide.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: dpareja on July 25, 2018, 12:23:03 pm
Banning abortion is slavery.

Hey, if you can be hyperbolic...

Banning abortion is banning infanticide.

Perhaps, but, I repeat, it is slavery.

How is it slavery?

Because the mother is being forced, against her will, if she wishes an abortion but cannot due to governmental fiat obtain one, to use her body to maintain the life of her unborn child. (Yes, I'll concede for this argument that the zygote/embryo/fetus/whatever-you-care-to-call-it is an unborn human child.) Her bodily autonomy is being forcibly violated and her labour is being used for a purpose for which she does not wish it to be used. Her unborn child has no right to demand that of her, just as nobody else would (that is, nobody has the right to attach themselves to another human and become completely biologically dependent on them for nine months), and I will not accord some humans rights others do not enjoy.

I am not denying the unborn child a right to life. I do not accord it or any other human the right to force another human to sustain it completely.

Further, consider that we don't take organs from recently-dead people unless they consented while still alive, no matter how pressing the need for such organs might be. If abortion were banned, the dead would have more bodily autonomy than pregnant women.

Banning abortion can also potentially implicate the government doing so in murder, as we saw with the tragedy of Savita Halappanavar, which is what spurred voters in the Republic of Ireland ultimately to overturn their atrocious Eighth Amendment. (And even after they did so, I will note that the law subsequently introduced still produced one of the most restrictive schemes in the world, though the government had made it known what scheme it would introduce were the amendment in question repealed.)
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 25, 2018, 12:38:54 pm
Banning abortion is slavery.

Hey, if you can be hyperbolic...

Banning abortion is banning infanticide.

Perhaps, but, I repeat, it is slavery.

How is it slavery?

Because the mother is being forced, against her will, if she wishes an abortion but cannot due to governmental fiat obtain one, to use her body to maintain the life of her unborn child. (Yes, I'll concede for this argument that the zygote/embryo/fetus/whatever-you-care-to-call-it is an unborn human child.) Her bodily autonomy is being forcibly violated and her labour is being used for a purpose for which she does not wish it to be used. Her unborn child has no right to demand that of her, just as nobody else would (that is, nobody has the right to attach themselves to another human and become completely biologically dependent on them for nine months), and I will not accord some humans rights others do not enjoy.

I am not denying the unborn child a right to life. I do not accord it or any other human the right to force another human to sustain it completely.

Further, consider that we don't take organs from recently-dead people unless they consented while still alive, no matter how pressing the need for such organs might be. If abortion were banned, the dead would have more bodily autonomy than pregnant women.

Banning abortion can also potentially implicate the government doing so in murder, as we saw with the tragedy of Savita Halappanavar, which is what spurred voters in the Republic of Ireland ultimately to overturn their atrocious Eighth Amendment. (And even after they did so, I will note that the law subsequently introduced still produced one of the most restrictive schemes in the world, though the government had made it known what scheme it would introduce were the amendment in question repealed.)

The right to life is the most important human rights, and NOBODY has the right to deny an innocent person that right. And um, legalizing abortion obviously deny the unborn child of that right.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: dpareja on July 25, 2018, 12:47:29 pm
I am not denying the unborn child a right to life.

If I found you and made myself completely biologically dependent upon you for nine months, through no choice of your own and quite possibly against your will, such that for at least the first half of that time I would die if I was disconnected, would you have the right to disconnect me? Or can I force you to so support me?

If you're not OK with that, then you accord an unborn child a right no other human enjoys.

Also, do you support or oppose the death penalty?
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 25, 2018, 01:10:06 pm
I am not denying the unborn child a right to life.

If I found you and made myself completely biologically dependent upon you for nine months, through no choice of your own and quite possibly against your will, such that for at least the first half of that time I would die if I was disconnected, would you have the right to disconnect me? Or can I force you to so support me?

If you're not OK with that, then you accord an unborn child a right no other human enjoys.

Also, do you support or oppose the death penalty?

Well if you somehow did that by somehow fusing your body to mine, I guess I would have to support you.

However that is a bad comparison because it is not the child’s fault he or she came into existence and it is the mother’s choice because she had consensual sex. And your not making sense, how the fuck is abortion NOT denying the unborn child the right to life.

I support the death penalty for first degree murderers especially mass murderers, because by taking another person’s life, they lost their own right to life and deserve to be put to death. Unborn babies are obviously not first degree murderers.

Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: dpareja on July 25, 2018, 01:58:43 pm
Because abortion is termination of pregnancy, not termination of life.

And it's nice to know that you're OK with slavery under certain circumstances.

As for "the mother's choice," I take it then that you'd be OK with abortion in the event of rape? (And let's not forget that your Bible commands abortion not in that case, but in the event that your wife cheats on you--which would, at least in some cases, be consensual on her part and hence not rape--and that it's God who ultimately makes the determination as to whether an abortion is warranted. See Numbers 5:11-28.)

As for the death penalty, what that does, more often than not, is create martyrs and thus exacerbate the problem, where life imprisonment generally leads to people forgetting about the person in question.

I also noticed that you haven't addressed my points about organ donors (we don't take organs from dead people unless they consented in life) or Savita Halappanavar.

I do not accord anyone the right to violate another's bodily autonomy. That is why I support the unfettered right for women to choose either to carry a pregnancy to term or to terminate that pregnancy as they wish. Furthermore, I support access to all forms of contraception, mandatory comprehensive sex education so that people--particularly libidinous teenagers--know how to avoid unintentional pregnancies (consider that states with abstinence-only sex education, like Mississippi and Texas, are among the top states in the US for teen pregnancy, repeat teen pregnancy, and teen abortion, while states with comprehensive sex education, like New Hampshire, rank near the bottom of all those categories), social supports for women and families with young children, particularly single mothers and low-income families, and extensive maternity and paternity leave so that young children can properly bond with their parents. All of these policies reduce abortion rates.

But I will not--will never--support violations of someone's bodily autonomy, and I will never force a woman to seek dangerous, possibly fatal, means of ending a pregnancy she does not want.

(http://d1o2xrel38nv1n.cloudfront.net/files/2014/08/Screen-Shot-2014-08-26-at-9.22.17-AM.png)

--James Woods, Democratic candidate for the US House of Representatives in 2014 from Arizona's 5th Congressional District.

EDIT: I also support some form of single-payer health insurance.

The average cost of giving birth in the US is, as I have noted previously, over US$38,000. That alone would incentivize women to seek an abortion, simply due to its unaffordability. (Consider that, depending on your source, at the low end almost half of US families cannot afford an unexpected $500 expense (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-americans-cant-afford-a-500-emergency-expense/). How do you expect them to afford $38,000 given only seven or eight months' lead time--never mind what happens if the child is premature?) By contrast, when Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge gave birth to Princess Charlotte, her second child, you can be sure that she had the absolute best care possibly available, and it cost US$19,000. For twice that I'd expect something absolutely, jaw-droppingly amazing, but I doubt the average mother giving birth in the US gets anything nearly as lavish as the Duchess had.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 25, 2018, 03:57:38 pm
Because abortion is termination of pregnancy, not termination of life.

And it's nice to know that you're OK with slavery under certain circumstances.

As for "the mother's choice," I take it then that you'd be OK with abortion in the event of rape? (And let's not forget that your Bible commands abortion not in that case, but in the event that your wife cheats on you--which would, at least in some cases, be consensual on her part and hence not rape--and that it's God who ultimately makes the determination as to whether an abortion is warranted. See Numbers 5:11-28.)

As for the death penalty, what that does, more often than not, is create martyrs and thus exacerbate the problem, where life imprisonment generally leads to people forgetting about the person in question.

I also noticed that you haven't addressed my points about organ donors (we don't take organs from dead people unless they consented in life) or Savita Halappanavar.

I do not accord anyone the right to violate another's bodily autonomy. That is why I support the unfettered right for women to choose either to carry a pregnancy to term or to terminate that pregnancy as they wish. Furthermore, I support access to all forms of contraception, mandatory comprehensive sex education so that people--particularly libidinous teenagers--know how to avoid unintentional pregnancies (consider that states with abstinence-only sex education, like Mississippi and Texas, are among the top states in the US for teen pregnancy, repeat teen pregnancy, and teen abortion, while states with comprehensive sex education, like New Hampshire, rank near the bottom of all those categories), social supports for women and families with young children, particularly single mothers and low-income families, and extensive maternity and paternity leave so that young children can properly bond with their parents. All of these policies reduce abortion rates.

But I will not--will never--support violations of someone's bodily autonomy, and I will never force a woman to seek dangerous, possibly fatal, means of ending a pregnancy she does not want.

(http://d1o2xrel38nv1n.cloudfront.net/files/2014/08/Screen-Shot-2014-08-26-at-9.22.17-AM.png)

--James Woods, Democratic candidate for the US House of Representatives in 2014 from Arizona's 5th Congressional District.

EDIT: I also support some form of single-payer health insurance.

The average cost of giving birth in the US is, as I have noted previously, over US$38,000. That alone would incentivize women to seek an abortion, simply due to its unaffordability. (Consider that, depending on your source, at the low end almost half of US families cannot afford an unexpected $500 expense (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-americans-cant-afford-a-500-emergency-expense/). How do you expect them to afford $38,000 given only seven or eight months' lead time--never mind what happens if the child is premature?) By contrast, when Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge gave birth to Princess Charlotte, her second child, you can be sure that she had the absolute best care possibly available, and it cost US$19,000. For twice that I'd expect something absolutely, jaw-droppingly amazing, but I doubt the average mother giving birth in the US gets anything nearly as lavish as the Duchess had.

1. Abortion is termination of life because the fetus fucking dies!

2. Of course me and most pro lifers make rape an exception. And life of the mother is also another exception so in the case of Savita Halappanavar, the doctors needed to do more research to see that her life was in danger.

3. The false NIV translation is the only translation that uses the term miscarriage. The Catholic Dhouy Rheims version says this

“And when she hath drunk them, if she be defiled, and having despised her husband be guilty of adultery, the malediction shall go through her, and her belly swelling, her THIGH shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse, and an example to all the people.”

And according to Catholic Answers

“Obviously “thigh” is some kind of euphemism but it seems hard to justify it means miscarriage. For starters there’s no mention of possible pregnancy until the very end and it is used as a future event. So it could simply be saying that if she is guilty she will become infertile, as a punishment for calling God to be her witness when she is lying. Rabbis state that the final line about the innocent woman conceiving means that because she was unjustly humiliated that even if she was previous infertile she will now be fertile.”

3. Regardless of whether the person is put to death or kept in life prison, there are going o be people who are going to try to follow their legacy, so it does not exacerbate the problem. It teaches the punishment for committing murder.

4. Consent for taking organs from someone is different because it does not involve talking a life because the person already is dead.

5. It is not just the woman’s body, it involves the body of the fetus.

6. Those states have more teen pregnancies but not more teen sex and probably less because of those parts of the country being more religious which means there is less risk of STD’s. And there is only more abortion because abortion is legal in the United States.

7. When Obamacare get’s repealed, the cost will go down when free market competition is encouraged.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 25, 2018, 04:49:37 pm
Fuck off you little pissant, you don't give a flying fuck about wee widdle babbies. You want to control women. Hardly surprising coming from one whose public bid for marriage went as well as it did.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: dpareja on July 25, 2018, 04:51:57 pm
1. That is a highly unfortunate incidental side effect, I concede. However, again, the woman's bodily autonomy is, once she no longer consents to be pregnant, being forcibly violated. In that conflict of rights, I must side with the person whom I know is alive, rather than the person who may die before coming to term (due to miscarriage or stillbirth).

2. But, as some have argued, why make an exception for rape? It's not the unborn child's fault that it exists because of rape.

3. In Hebrew tradition, from which the Mosaic law is derived, the fetus was considered water for the first forty days, after which it was considered part of the woman's body, generally a thigh. References, then, to the "thigh" are in fact references to the fetus.

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-fetus-in-jewish-law/

Quote
An unborn fetus in Jewish law is not considered a person (Heb. nefesh, lit. “soul”) until it has been born. The fetus is regarded as a part of the mother’s body and not a separate being until it begins to egress from the womb during parturition (childbirth). In fact, until forty days after conception, the fertilized egg is considered as “mere fluid.” These facts form the basis for the Jewish legal view on abortion.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_abor.htm

Quote
The Talmud contains the expression 'ubar yerech imo--the fetus is as the thigh of its mother,' i.e., the fetus is deemed to be part and parcel of the pregnant woman's body."

3 (again. because you can't count, apparently). There will be either way, but the execution creates a flashpoint where life imprisonment does not.

4. So what are you saying here? That we should be able to harvest organs from dead people?

5. But the fetus is wholly dependent on the woman's body for its survival. It is not alive separate from that, and forcing the woman to sustain it is slavery.

6. Teen sex isn't itself the issue. People gonna fuck whether you or I or anyone else likes it or not. The question is whether they do so safely, and quite clearly, in the southern states like Mississippi and Texas, they aren't. As for abortion rates, we have no criminal restrictions on abortion in Canada (for various reasons), and our abortion rate is only slightly higher than in the US. Clearly there are other factors than how restricted abortion is.

https://www.guttmacher.org/report/abortion-worldwide-2017
http://www.arcc-cdac.ca/backrounders/statistics-abortion-in-canada.pdf

Note also that the more restrictive the legal regime, the greater the proportion of unsafe abortions to safe abortions--some women will seek abortions no matter what, and the more you restrict abortion, the more those women's lives are in danger.

7. I have no problem with a free market for health care. Competition among medical professionals over quality of service is healthy. Where the problem comes in is the for-profit health insurance companies, which make money by denying as much coverage and as many claims as possible. They are a useless middleman that drives up costs with no benefit. Get rid of (or at least restrict) those, by implementing a single-payer system, and you will see costs drop significantly. (Alternate choices include a public option, forcing those companies to compete against an insurer with no profit motive, or tight regulations on non-profit health insurance companies, such as in Germany.) The ACA was a Republican plan, first proposed by Richard Nixon, then touted by the Heritage Foundation, pushed by Newt Gingrich and Chuck Grassley as an alternative to the plan proposed by the Clinton administration, and finally implemented in Massachusetts under Mitt Romney, and like most Republican "ideas" (I use the term loosely), it sucked balls--but it was an improvement, however slight, over the previous system, which was utterly atrocious. (If you want to complain about premiums increasing, go look at where they were in 2008.)

Hospitals in the US often have billing departments with more staff than they have medical staff. Toronto General Hospital's billing department has three people--one of whom is only there to deal with US insurers. That drives up health care costs without any improvement in the quality of care. If you want to cut costs, get rid of the for-profit health insurance companies.

EDIT: And Tol's right. If you cared about babies you'd have said you support the postnatal stuff I mentioned (like social supports and parental leave). That you don't reveals your true motive--controlling women, which is one of the main foundations of your horrific, atrocious, terrifying, evil religion.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 25, 2018, 06:03:48 pm
6. Teen sex isn't itself the issue. People gonna fuck whether you or I or anyone else likes it or not.

I highly suspect that for Jacob this is the central issue. There are two options here, Jacob is a troll trying to pwn us who's been outplayed because, FFS he oinked for five minutes on Youtube or Jacob is a sincere little theocrat who has built his beliefs as a buffer around his very real insecurities. Either way, we're dealing with a bitter, bitter little man.

He's presented himself here as highly neurotic, deeply suspicious and ashamed of his own sexuality and vengeful towards the world for not accommodating people like him. Not so different from all the other run of the mill Incels.

Teenagers having sex, premarital sex, gay sex or even ordinary people masturbating is an affront to Jacob because it's people having fun with something he finds baffling and terrifying. Sex. It's not the babbies, it's the bitterness. Simple.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: niam2023 on July 25, 2018, 08:19:56 pm
Someone needs to upload the oink video again...but in dubstep.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 26, 2018, 08:37:09 am
1. That conflict of rights involves someone’s life on the line. In that case, the right to life is more important than bodily autonomy.

2. Well rape might affect the physical health of the mother and the baby so it can be included in the life of the mother exception.

3. The Talmud was written after the Bible and after Christ and is the book of the false religion of Judaism. Christianity is much more accurate to biblical tradition than Judaism.

4. I am not saying that. I am saying that people have rights to refuse organ harvesting upon death because it does not cause a termination of life.

5. Already talked about this in section 1 of this comment

6. Teen sex is the issue, because sex itself is more dangerous than pregnancy because of STDs.

7. Well less women will have unsafe illegal abortions if society teaches that abortion is murder.

8. Well the Republicans are planning Trumpcare as an improvement over Obamacare. https://resources.ehealthinsurance.com/uncategorized/trumpcare-vs-obamacare
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 26, 2018, 08:55:05 am
Every single sentence you spouted is bullshit. STD's can be massively reduced by reliable contraceptive's which the RCC, who you regard as pretenders anyway, oppose as much as they loathe teen sex unless it's a padre raping one of them, denying her an abortion and the church hierarchy shuffling the old creep off to a new parish to rape more teens, or younger than teens.

And Trumpcare is less likely than his stupid wall.

Wonder if padre uses protection?
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 26, 2018, 08:58:12 am
The best way to prevent STD’s is abstinence.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 26, 2018, 09:05:42 am
The best way to prevent STD’s is abstinence.
Which doesn't work and has never worked.

Except for the truly unfuckable, like you!
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: ironbite on July 26, 2018, 09:24:14 am
How's trying to get in your second cousin's jeans going for ya?
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: dpareja on July 26, 2018, 10:42:30 am
1. Says you. There are certain fundamental rights enjoyed by the mother that are given equal importance in law (if the law recognizes fetal personhood at all). In this case, we are dealing with the rights of an actual, living, biologically independent person versus the rights of a biologically-dependent being who could still end up miscarried or stillborn anyway. The mother can make her own decisions about her own body--including who or what it will support biologically--without your or my or anyone else's input, you meddling fuck. She is not a biological slave to anyone or anything, for any reason.

2. Rape, once it's happened, is over, at least so far as the acute physical violation is concerned. There are devastating mental effects, to be sure, but (though I admit some ignorance on this matter) I do not know what there is in terms of lingering physical effects (beyond the possibilities of pregnancy and STIs). But in all this the fetus is faultless nonetheless, and if you're going to argue that the mental effects justify it, then fine, I'll say that the mental effects of wanting an abortion but being denied it because of self-righteous, moralizing fucktards like you are just as bad (the woman has gone from consenting to nonconsenting--if she was ever the former), and being forced to seek an unsafe method also risks devastating physical effects.

3. The Talmud might have been written down only after the events written about in the New Testament were purported to have taken place, but the traditions on which it was based stretch back for millennia prior to that, and it is those traditions which are reflected in the Mosaic law. References to "thighs" for pregnant women in the Old Testament are references to the fetus and such are just another body part.

4. Sure it can. If a person absolutely needs a liver right now, and the only readily available matching donor is a recently-dead person, but that latter did not consent to be an organ donor, I guess it really, really, really, really sucks to be the person who needs a liver transplant.

6. And if they're taught how to use things like condoms (which they're not in abstinence-only programs--though some teachers are at least willing to show their students how to put on a sock (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06kT9yfj7QE)) that will reduce STI transmission rates drastically. If you want to reduce STI rates, teach comprehensive sex education. Telling libidinous teenagers, "Sex is bad, m'kay? Don't have sex, m'kay?" will not dissuade many of them from fucking. Comprehensive sex education works. Abstinence-only sex education might be one of the few things that fails even harder than you do at being a half-decent human being.

7. And women will still seek abortions for any number of reasons anyway. If you want to cut down on those, implement all the policies I mentioned. Just restricting or banning abortion, while it may result in a dip in abortion rates, also results in a substantial shift toward those abortions that are done anyway being done by unsafe methods, which poses a gigantic risk to the health of the mother. Other than the idea of single-payer health insurance and a bit about sex education, you haven't said diddly-squat about what I proposed.

8. You're talking about the AHCA? That died nearly a year ago and it ain't coming back. Republicans don't give two flying fucks about anything other than making sure rich people don't have to pay taxes and corporations can pollute as much as they want (oh, which also harms mothers and fetuses--especially the latter, quite dramatically), except when they need to rile up their retarded, ignorant base like you. The GOP tries to have its cake and eat it too (restrict abortion when they need to appease the evangelicals and Catholics who can't stand the thought of women having a smidgen of control over their own lives and meanwhile cut social supports because that costs money that could be going to rich people in tax cuts) and that's why they fail and always will and deserve absolutely no influence in any government anywhere whatsoever.

As for abstinence, I agree--abstaining from sexual contact with others, or masturbating, is the most reliable method of preventing pregnancy and the transmission of STIs. However, we know that only teaching abstinence simply does not work, and so it behooves anyone who is intellectually honest and wants to reduce the rates of STI transmission or unintended or unwanted pregnancy rates (and hence abortion rates) must support comprehensive sex education and oppose any attempts by any person or group, such as the Roman Catholic Church, to restrict sex education to teaching only abstinence, since that method has always failed and always will.

In short, butt out of other people's lives and stop dictating decisions that are not yours to make. Your so-called "morality" is a relic of a barbarous time from an evil source that deserves absolutely no respect in the modern world. If you get pregnant, you can go and not get an abortion. Don't make that choice for anyone else--you have no right to do so.

And if you can't be intellectually honest, you have no ground to demand to be taken seriously in any discussion on anything whatsoever.

EDIT: Progressives see systemic inequities, recognize that that's shitty for the people with the short end of the stick, and work to ameliorate said inequities.

Conservatives see systemic inequities, see that those inequities favour them, and fight all attempts to remedy the problem, often by claiming that the evident inequities don't actually exist.

Fucking dishonest hacks.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 26, 2018, 01:52:45 pm
1. Says you. There are certain fundamental rights enjoyed by the mother that are given equal importance in law (if the law recognizes fetal personhood at all). In this case, we are dealing with the rights of an actual, living, biologically independent person versus the rights of a biologically-dependent being who could still end up miscarried or stillborn anyway. The mother can make her own decisions about her own body--including who or what it will support biologically--without your or my or anyone else's input, you meddling fuck. She is not a biological slave to anyone or anything, for any reason.

2. Rape, once it's happened, is over, at least so far as the acute physical violation is concerned. There are devastating mental effects, to be sure, but (though I admit some ignorance on this matter) I do not know what there is in terms of lingering physical effects (beyond the possibilities of pregnancy and STIs). But in all this the fetus is faultless nonetheless, and if you're going to argue that the mental effects justify it, then fine, I'll say that the mental effects of wanting an abortion but being denied it because of self-righteous, moralizing fucktards like you are just as bad (the woman has gone from consenting to nonconsenting--if she was ever the former), and being forced to seek an unsafe method also risks devastating physical effects.

3. The Talmud might have been written down only after the events written about in the New Testament were purported to have taken place, but the traditions on which it was based stretch back for millennia prior to that, and it is those traditions which are reflected in the Mosaic law. References to "thighs" for pregnant women in the Old Testament are references to the fetus and such are just another body part.

4. Sure it can. If a person absolutely needs a liver right now, and the only readily available matching donor is a recently-dead person, but that latter did not consent to be an organ donor, I guess it really, really, really, really sucks to be the person who needs a liver transplant.

6. And if they're taught how to use things like condoms (which they're not in abstinence-only programs--though some teachers are at least willing to show their students how to put on a sock (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06kT9yfj7QE)) that will reduce STI transmission rates drastically. If you want to reduce STI rates, teach comprehensive sex education. Telling libidinous teenagers, "Sex is bad, m'kay? Don't have sex, m'kay?" will not dissuade many of them from fucking. Comprehensive sex education works. Abstinence-only sex education might be one of the few things that fails even harder than you do at being a half-decent human being.

7. And women will still seek abortions for any number of reasons anyway. If you want to cut down on those, implement all the policies I mentioned. Just restricting or banning abortion, while it may result in a dip in abortion rates, also results in a substantial shift toward those abortions that are done anyway being done by unsafe methods, which poses a gigantic risk to the health of the mother. Other than the idea of single-payer health insurance and a bit about sex education, you haven't said diddly-squat about what I proposed.

8. You're talking about the AHCA? That died nearly a year ago and it ain't coming back. Republicans don't give two flying fucks about anything other than making sure rich people don't have to pay taxes and corporations can pollute as much as they want (oh, which also harms mothers and fetuses--especially the latter, quite dramatically), except when they need to rile up their retarded, ignorant base like you. The GOP tries to have its cake and eat it too (restrict abortion when they need to appease the evangelicals and Catholics who can't stand the thought of women having a smidgen of control over their own lives and meanwhile cut social supports because that costs money that could be going to rich people in tax cuts) and that's why they fail and always will and deserve absolutely no influence in any government anywhere whatsoever.

As for abstinence, I agree--abstaining from sexual contact with others, or masturbating, is the most reliable method of preventing pregnancy and the transmission of STIs. However, we know that only teaching abstinence simply does not work, and so it behooves anyone who is intellectually honest and wants to reduce the rates of STI transmission or unintended or unwanted pregnancy rates (and hence abortion rates) must support comprehensive sex education and oppose any attempts by any person or group, such as the Roman Catholic Church, to restrict sex education to teaching only abstinence, since that method has always failed and always will.

In short, butt out of other people's lives and stop dictating decisions that are not yours to make. Your so-called "morality" is a relic of a barbarous time from an evil source that deserves absolutely no respect in the modern world. If you get pregnant, you can go and not get an abortion. Don't make that choice for anyone else--you have no right to do so.

And if you can't be intellectually honest, you have no ground to demand to be taken seriously in any discussion on anything whatsoever.

EDIT: Progressives see systemic inequities, recognize that that's shitty for the people with the short end of the stick, and work to ameliorate said inequities.

Conservatives see systemic inequities, see that those inequities favour them, and fight all attempts to remedy the problem, often by claiming that the evident inequities don't actually exist.

Fucking dishonest hacks.

1. Newborn babies are biologically dependent on their mothers for breastfeeding and killing them is murder.

2. The risk of STD’s and how the mother’s mental health will affect her ability to keep the child healthy while pregnant are factors that are grounds for abortion.

3. Jewish traditions changed a lot after the Babylonian exile and getting influence from Hellenistic culture.

4. Usually there is a liver available.

5. Condom’s will encourage them to more sex while not using them will make them aware that they can become pregnant or infected.

6. But it overall reduces the number of deaths, because the number of babies who die and the mother’s who die and go to Hell, in illegal abortion is less than the amount of babies that currently die under legal abortion.

7. The AHCA wasn’t passed because of the fucking RINOS(Republican’s in name only) like John McCain, but when they get voted out and replaced by real Republican’s than it will be passed, and the article explains the differences and benefits of those ensured under Trumpcare.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: dpareja on July 26, 2018, 02:18:29 pm
1. While breastfeeding is generally the preferred method of feeding a newborn, it is not always indicated. For instance, some women simply cannot express milk, and anyway newborn children can survive while being bottle-fed rather than breastfed. Saying that a newborn child is biologically dependent on its mother the way a human fetus is is dishonest and disingenuous. If the mother does not wish to breastfeed her child, she does not have to and there are other options available. If we could extract and cryogenically freeze fetuses, or grow them in artificial wombs, that would change the facts and make pregnancy more similar to breastfeeding.

2. OK, so let's say a ciswoman married to a cisman gets pregnant, from consensual sex, and is initially excited to be pregnant. Then through no fault of her own, after, say, three or four months of pregnancy, her husband dies suddenly and she is suddenly left without sufficient resources to deliver and care for the child. The thought of giving birth and raising the child, while previously a source of excitement and joy for her, has suddenly become an unbearable stress factor. Her mental health is now at serious risk, and what's worse unfeeling fucks like you tell her she can't get an abortion.

3. That's not the only place where "thigh" does not mean a literal thigh. When Jacob wrestled God and ended up with a crippled thigh... that was a crotch shot.

4. Usually. Nice. And if there isn't?

5. I know you don't get this, but:

PEOPLE

GONNA

FUCK


Teenagers have hormones racing through their bodies, those bodies are changing from child to adult, and they don't often have the emotional maturity to think through all the consequences of their actions. Proper condom use is the most effective way of mitigating the consequences of having sex. They are going to have sex whether you or I or anyone else likes it or not. If you oppose teaching them how to do so safely, you are partly responsible for the consequences they suffer.

6. Does it? Look at the two studies I linked earlier. The abortion rate in Canada is only slightly higher than in the US. (In fact, the rate in Canada takes into account ages 15-44, while the rate for the US is ages 15-49, so probably they're even closer than they appear.) But we also see that the fewer restrictions placed on abortion, the safer the procedures that are performed are. US law is more restrictive than Canadian law on abortion, and hence a greater percentage of the abortions performed in the US are done under unsafe conditions, putting the mother's life in greater jeopardy. Further to that, attempts to restrict abortion too much make it inaccessible to all too many women, even those who really do have a legitimate medical reason for one, such as those women with ectopic pregnancies.

7. The AHCA was also massively unpopular and attempts to reintroduce it will be politically disastrous for Republicans. The mood of the US is populist left, and the only reason Republicans are in charge right now is because the Democratic Party establishment is beyond incompetent (and hopelessly corrupt) and can't read polls. Once that's remedied and the Overton Window has been moved to align with the attitudes of regular Americans, the Republicans, at least in their current science-denying, education-hating, Christian-theocratic, misogynistic, racist, xenophobic, homophobic, transphobic, anti-American incarnation, will be out of power for, quite possibly, decades.

And direct question (http://forums.fstdt.net/index.php?topic=4764.0) (see the Skyfire clause), Jacob: Do you support these policies:

Social supports for women and families with young children, particularly single mothers and low-income families.
Extensive maternity and paternity leave so that young children can properly bond with their parents.

EDIT: Republican politicians (or, more precisely, the donors who control them) care about one thing and one thing only: cutting taxes for rich people and corporations. All the other crap they spew is red meat to get useful idiots like you to vote for them and otherwise support them against your own economic self-interest.

EDIT #2: Also, estimates peg the number of people in the US who die every year from being unable to access basic health care (generally due to unaffordability) at anywhere between 38,000 to 45,000. In countries with better health care systems, this number of far lower, close to zero. By opposing single-payer (or similar) you are partly responsible for at least (let's lowball it) 35,000 deaths per year. You no longer get to call yourself pro-life, you death-loving fuck.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 26, 2018, 02:57:21 pm
1. Well it is said that breastfeeding is better than bottled milk for brain development. And newborn babies are dependent on their mother’s for survival despite not being inside the mother’s body.

2. Insurance and other family members can help pay for the birth and if she is really lacking resources, the child can be given up for adopted. And grief over death is different from mental trauma from rape.

3. The NIV is the only bible that translates thigh as miscarriage.

4. It could be made Law that while organ donation is optional for the most part, there has to be a certain minimum number of donors per year.

5. Yes teens will always fuck, but you can reduce the number of those that do by teaching abstinence and for those that do, the pregnancy will make the females realize, “Oh I shouldn’t fuck.”

6. Abortion is legal in the US under Roe vs Wade so when that gets repealed, it will go way down.

7. There is a populist right mood in the United States, since the economy is going well, and the unemployment rate is low. You are confusing the corrupt Establishment Republicans which Trump fought against during the primaries, with the right wing populist Republicans that support Trump’s agenda.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 26, 2018, 05:37:12 pm
Yeah, and those tariffs are hitting Trump country. Those shitheads may hate the brown, the poor, the educated and the different but they like to eat. Stabbing your base in the hip pocket might not inspire you to vote for the other guy but it can inspire your base not to vote.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 26, 2018, 07:10:55 pm
Yeah, and those tariffs are hitting Trump country. Those shitheads may hate the brown, the poor, the educated and the different but they like to eat. Stabbing your base in the hip pocket might not inspire you to vote for the other guy but it can inspire your base not to vote.

First of all, Trump’s base involves blue collar workers many of whom are considered poor, and there are also Black Trump supporters because Trump is stopping illegal immigrants from taking their jobs showing that it is Trump, not the Democrats that are in the best interests for blacks. Those in Trump country know that the long term benefits of the tariffs outweigh the temporary consequences because of keeping jobs and industries in America which is a benefit to the economy and the workers.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: ironbite on July 26, 2018, 07:46:37 pm
God you're adorable.

Ironbite-just wanna head on up to Cape Cod and bang your second cousin myself.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: niam2023 on July 26, 2018, 08:27:37 pm
Meanwhile I'm living in California and every day I hear about the new harms being visited on Trump Country people, I laugh a little more.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 26, 2018, 08:50:31 pm
Yeah, and those tariffs are hitting Trump country. Those shitheads may hate the brown, the poor, the educated and the different but they like to eat. Stabbing your base in the hip pocket might not inspire you to vote for the other guy but it can inspire your base not to vote.

First of all, Trump’s base involves blue collar workers many of whom are considered poor, and there are also Black Trump supporters because Trump is stopping illegal immigrants from taking their jobs showing that it is Trump, not the Democrats that are in the best interests for blacks. Those in Trump country know that the long term benefits of the tariffs outweigh the temporary consequences because of keeping jobs and industries in America which is a benefit to the economy and the workers.
Aaannd if you have scitzhophrenic trade policy that's neither consistantly free trade or protectionist and all drunk you make the US an unsafe bet for setting up shop. Companies don't make long term bets based on how a manchild might react if he accidently geta triggered by CNN over cheeseburgers.

And Trump being the Trew Ande Noble Friend of The Blacks? Good one, not as funny as "oink," but close.

One thing I will grant you is,  if there was ever a POTUS thick enough to go along your frothing mad plans for an invasion of Britain-Trump's probably your best bet!
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 26, 2018, 10:04:51 pm
Yeah, and those tariffs are hitting Trump country. Those shitheads may hate the brown, the poor, the educated and the different but they like to eat. Stabbing your base in the hip pocket might not inspire you to vote for the other guy but it can inspire your base not to vote.

First of all, Trump’s base involves blue collar workers many of whom are considered poor, and there are also Black Trump supporters because Trump is stopping illegal immigrants from taking their jobs showing that it is Trump, not the Democrats that are in the best interests for blacks. Those in Trump country know that the long term benefits of the tariffs outweigh the temporary consequences because of keeping jobs and industries in America which is a benefit to the economy and the workers.
Aaannd if you have scitzhophrenic trade policy that's neither consistantly free trade or protectionist and all drunk you make the US an unsafe bet for setting up shop. Companies don't make long term bets based on how a manchild might react if he accidently geta triggered by CNN over cheeseburgers.

And Trump being the Trew Ande Noble Friend of The Blacks? Good one, not as funny as "oink," but close.

One thing I will grant you is,  if there was ever a POTUS thick enough to go along your frothing mad plans for an invasion of Britain-Trump's probably your best bet!

It has both free trade and protectionism in that tariffs are imposed to get trading partners to renegotiate more fair free trade deals.

And Trump is a far better friend of the blacks than the Democrats who have a record of fighting for slavery in the civil war, the KKK, and Jim Crow laws. They only pretended to support black rights in the 1960s to get their votes, and have betrayed them for illegal immigrants.

Trump however probably would not want to invade Britain because of US-Britain relations. A better bet would be a secret member of a future organization that wishes to restore the rightful heir to the throne.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: dpareja on July 26, 2018, 10:07:55 pm
1. Well it is said that breastfeeding is better than bottled milk for brain development. And newborn babies are dependent on their mother’s for survival despite not being inside the mother’s body.

2. Insurance and other family members can help pay for the birth and if she is really lacking resources, the child can be given up for adopted. And grief over death is different from mental trauma from rape.

3. The NIV is the only bible that translates thigh as miscarriage.

4. It could be made Law that while organ donation is optional for the most part, there has to be a certain minimum number of donors per year.

5. Yes teens will always fuck, but you can reduce the number of those that do by teaching abstinence and for those that do, the pregnancy will make the females realize, “Oh I shouldn’t fuck.”

6. Abortion is legal in the US under Roe vs Wade so when that gets repealed, it will go way down.

7. There is a populist right mood in the United States, since the economy is going well, and the unemployment rate is low. You are confusing the corrupt Establishment Republicans which Trump fought against during the primaries, with the right wing populist Republicans that support Trump’s agenda.

1. Did I deny that breastfeeding was preferable to bottle feeding? For fuck's sake you thick dimwit I said it was!

2. Insurance? Great, let's give everyone insurance. It's called "what every developed country has". As for family members, they should not be or feel obligated to put up any money, and with adoption, somebody's still got to foot the bill, and it's really, really sad when a mother has to give her child up for adoption because she literally can't afford to raise her kid. And mental trauma is still mental trauma. Situations change suddenly and an inflexible law would only exacerbate the situation.

3. Which means the NIV is the only translation that takes the Hebrew tradition on which the Mosaic law was based into account, and is therefore the only accurate translation of that passage.

4. So you are okay with forcing people to be organ donors if not enough people volunteer?

All right, here's another scenario. Some guy, let's call him John, develops a form of cancer which is almost certainly fatal without a transplant from a compatible donor. Unfortunately, due to John's circumstances, none of his family are compatible and the only potential donor who can be found is some other random guy named Michael. If Michael provides the needed tissue for the transplant, John will almost certainly survive the cancer. If Michael declines, John will almost certainly die within a few years, possibly even months. Can Michael be legally obligated to provide the tissue samples?

5. I do not object to teaching abstinence. As I said, the only (near-)surefire ways of avoiding pregnancy (and STIs) are abstinence and masturbation. (Well, unless you believe the fables of parthenogenesis.) What is evil is teaching only abstinence. That has proven to be an utter failure, while comprehensive sex ed works.

6. If the Supreme Court is evil enough to reduce women to being human incubation vats at the whim of male- and fundamentalist-dominated governments (that latter in direct contradiction to the very first part of the First Amendment, which guarantees freedom from religion--freedom of religion is second), that is on their despicable heads, but if they are so arrogant as even to restrict states from deciding on the legality of abortion within their borders, then they are immediately worthy of impeachment. But even if Roe v. Wade, and, more relevantly, Doe v. Bolton and Planned Parenthood v. Casey are overturned, the major effect will be a shift toward unsafe abortions, putting far more women's lives at risk than under the current legal scheme. The most sensible path is full legalization with all possible efforts directed at reducing the demand for abortion, such as those that I suggested--and which, I note, you did not respond to, despite my asking as a direct question and citing the relevant forum rule.

7. There is a populist mood. When you look at the policy polls, it's crystal clear that that mood is populist left--but, since the Democratic establishment is utterly incompetent, the right has been able to hijack that populism and trick people into voting against their own self-interest via appeals to racism and xenophobia.

And again, I asked you a direct question. You did not even acknowledge it.

As for the Republicans being friendly toward blacks, THEY RAN THE FUCKING SOUTHERN STRATEGY YOU IDIOTIC ASSHOLE. STOP LISTENING TO DINESH FUCKING D'SOUZA.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 26, 2018, 10:54:17 pm
Your secret is not, you keep screeching it at people who hate you.

It's less about the tarrifs themselves than the demented, orange infant implementing them. Your lunatic prez onlu recently contradicted himself in the space of 24 hours calling for Europe and America to drop all trade barriers simultaneously then rapidly changing course. Madman theory may have some value in war, in business it spells "insecure investment."

The Democrats, pre and post Southern Strategy are different beasts and you know it you disingenuous choad and the biggest danger to African Americans isn't Mexican fruitpickers but trigger-happy white cops.

The only way to ensure future POTUS'es are as dumb as the current one would be enforced lobotomies, that or forcing them to listen to your YouTube brainfarts on a loop while locked in solitary which amounts to the same thing.

Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 27, 2018, 09:30:04 am
2. These situations are horrible situations but the murder of the baby makes it far more horrible.

3. As I said, the Jewish traditions changed over time and the traditions they had when the Talmud was written is different from the traditions they had during the time of the Torah. So the NIV follows later Jewish tradition, not ancient Israelite tradition(Judah was only one of the 12 tribes)

4. As I said, people have rights to not donate their organs, but in these specific situations they should have to.

5. But not teaching abstinence only  is a further encouragement to have more sex. While some teens will have sex, the strategy should be to reduce as much sex people have as possible.

6. As I said, Trumpcare can reduce the demand, to reduce the number of illegal abortions. What matters is reducing the number of deaths, and the number of the babies, and the evil women who die from unsafe abortions, will be far less than the number of babies who die under legal abortion.

7. Right, people realized and are realizing how corrupt the Democrat establishment is, due to how they rigged the primaries to prevent Bernie Sanders from winning among other things, causing a shift to the populist right.

I support maternity and paternity leave because it is in the best interests of the children. In terms of social supports, I support private charities giving people those supports.

And as for the Southern Strategy, well Wikipedia says this about it

“This view has been questioned by historians such as Matthew Lassiter, Kevin M. Kruse and Joseph Crespino, who have presented an alternative, "bottom up" narrative, which Lassiter has called the "suburban strategy". This narrative recognizes the centrality of racial backlash to the political realignment of the South,[8] but suggests that this backlash took the form of a defense of de facto segregation in the suburbs rather than overt resistance to racial integration and that the story of this backlash is a national rather than a strictly Southern one.”

“Matthew Lassiter says: "A suburban-centered vision reveals that demographic change played a more important role than racial demagoguery in the emergence of a two-party system in the American South".[89][90][91] Lassiter argues that race-based appeals cannot explain the GOP shift in the South while also noting that the real situation is far more complex.[92][93][94][95]

Kalk and Tindall separately argue that Nixon's Southern strategy was to find a compromise that on race would take the issue house of politics, allowing conservatives in the South to rally behind his grand plan to reorganize the national government.”

“Kotlowski argues that Nixon's overall civil rights record was on the whole responsible and that Nixon tended to seek the middle ground. He campaigned as a moderate in 1968, pitching his appeal to the widest range of voters. Furthermore, he continued this strategy as President. As a matter of principle, says Kotlowski, he supported integration of schools.”

“According to Lassiter, political scientists and historians point out, that the timing does not fit the "Southern strategy" model. Nixon carried 49 states in 1972, so he operated a successful national rather than regional strategy. but the Republican Party remained quite weak at the local and state level across the entire South for decades. Lassiter argues that Nixon's appeal was not to the Wallacites or segregationists, but rather to the rapidly emerging suburban middle class. Many had Northern antecedents, wanted rapid economic growth and saw the need to put backlash politics to rest. Lassiter says the Southern strategy was a "failure" for the GOP and that the Southern base of the Republican Party "always depended more on the middle-class corporate economy and on the top-down politics of racial backlash". Furthermore, realignment in the South "came primarily from the suburban ethos of New South metropolises such as Atlanta and Charlotte, North Carolina, not to the exportation of the working-class racial politics of the Black Belt".[102]”

Besides, most of the racist Southern Democrat politicians, stayed Democrat’s their whole life. Margaret Sanger was a mentor to Hillary Clinton.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 27, 2018, 09:34:18 am
Your secret is not, you keep screeching it at people who hate you.

It's less about the tarrifs themselves than the demented, orange infant implementing them. Your lunatic prez onlu recently contradicted himself in the space of 24 hours calling for Europe and America to drop all trade barriers simultaneously then rapidly changing course. Madman theory may have some value in war, in business it spells "insecure investment."

The Democrats, pre and post Southern Strategy are different beasts and you know it you disingenuous choad and the biggest danger to African Americans isn't Mexican fruitpickers but trigger-happy white cops.

The only way to ensure future POTUS'es are as dumb as the current one would be enforced lobotomies, that or forcing them to listen to your YouTube brainfarts on a loop while locked in solitary which amounts to the same thing.

In my previous comment, I explained how the Democrats post Southern Strategy are the same beasts. They only pretended to support black rights as a strategy to enslave them with their vote. Lyndon Johnson even called the Civil rights act the “Negro Bill.” The Democrats certainly did not help blacks rise from poverty.

And the Mexican illegals are a threat to the blacks because they are taking their jobs. Many of the blue collar workers are blacks.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: dpareja on July 27, 2018, 10:29:23 am
2. I agree that abortion should be a last resort, which is why I support measures that reduce demand.

3. Other translations still talk about the woman's belly swelling and her being rendered infertile.

4. So you don't believe in the right to bodily autonomy. Got it. Glad you admitted that.

5. And teaching abstinence-only does not greatly (if at all) reduce the rate at which teens have sex, but it does vastly increase the rate at which they have unsafe sex. You can both teach comprehensive sex ed and that abstinence and masturbation are the most certain ways of avoiding pregnancy and STIs.

6. So you're fine with women dying for getting abortions. Fuck off.

7. Look at policy polls. The mood of the country is populist and the policies the people want are left-wing policies. The Democratic establishment is, on many issues, particularly economic and foreign policy, to the right of most developed democracies' conservative parties. There's a reason Sanders and Warren are the most popular politicians in your country.

And I'm glad to know you support maternity and paternity leave (paid, I hope). As for social supports, quite simply, private charities do not have the reach and scope the government has, both in terms of reaching those in need and raising funds. Everyone has to pay taxes to the government(s); when I do, I expect to get something in return, like health insurance and welfare should I need it at some point.

And two RNC chairmen admitted that the Southern Strategy existed: Ken Mehlman and Michael Steele.

Now fuck off, you pathetic Dinesh D'Souza wannabe.

(https://rationalwiki.org/w/images/b/b6/Fractal-wrongness.jpg)
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 27, 2018, 01:39:19 pm
2. I agree that abortion should be a last resort, which is why I support measures that reduce demand.

3. Other translations still talk about the woman's belly swelling and her being rendered infertile.

4. So you don't believe in the right to bodily autonomy. Got it. Glad you admitted that.

5. And teaching abstinence-only does not greatly (if at all) reduce the rate at which teens have sex, but it does vastly increase the rate at which they have unsafe sex. You can both teach comprehensive sex ed and that abstinence and masturbation are the most certain ways of avoiding pregnancy and STIs.

6. So you're fine with women dying for getting abortions. Fuck off.

7. Look at policy polls. The mood of the country is populist and the policies the people want are left-wing policies. The Democratic establishment is, on many issues, particularly economic and foreign policy, to the right of most developed democracies' conservative parties. There's a reason Sanders and Warren are the most popular politicians in your country.

And I'm glad to know you support maternity and paternity leave (paid, I hope). As for social supports, quite simply, private charities do not have the reach and scope the government has, both in terms of reaching those in need and raising funds. Everyone has to pay taxes to the government(s); when I do, I expect to get something in return, like health insurance and welfare should I need it at some point.

And two RNC chairmen admitted that the Southern Strategy existed: Ken Mehlman and Michael Steele.

Now fuck off, you pathetic Dinesh D'Souza wannabe.

(https://rationalwiki.org/w/images/b/b6/Fractal-wrongness.jpg)

3. Swelling of the belly does not mean miscarriage, and becoming in fertile means not being able to have the child conceived in the first place.

5. Well for teens who have sex teen pregnancy will make teen girls realize, “Oh If I have sex, this will happen.”

6. I’m not fine with women and children dying from abortions, but the overall number of deaths would be less.

7. It depends on the region of the country. Trump still has support in states outside of Massachusetts and California.

There are lots of private charity organizations, as well as sites such as GoFundMe, and Pay Pal.

Of course the Southern Strategy existed, but what I quoted from Wikipedia, shows it appealed to the suburban voters, not the segregationists, was based on seeking a middle ground, and that race was not the primary cause of the party shift in the South as it was a gradual shift and the South still remained Democrat for a while after that.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: dpareja on July 27, 2018, 02:20:44 pm
3. And you're still ignoring Hebrew tradition.

5. And they fuck anyway. Better that they do so safely than unsafely. Teenagers are far less capable of making rational decisions than adults, especially when they've been indoctrinated practically since birth to believe lies, as they are across the US South.

6. And I'm not fine with women being reduced to incubator vats.

7. Trump's approval rating might hit 45% on a good day, and populist left policies have support everywhere in the country.

As for private charities, again, those do not have the same reach and scope as governments do, and crowdfunding campaigns reach their goals less than one-third (https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/269663) of the time. They are not, ultimately, a viable alternative. I pay taxes--I want services.

As for the Southern Strategy, it shifted Presidentially almost immediately. (It started in 1964, shifted even more in 1968, and only went back in 1976 because Carter was from Georgia, and in 1992 and 1996 because Clinton was from Arkansas and Perot was a spoiler. Only recently have some of those states, like Virginia and North Carolina, moved back from solidly Republican to swing.) With Congress, incumbency (and control of state legislatures in order to draw the maps) is a very powerful thing. And, as I said, both Mehlman and Steele admitted that it happened and that it was racist.

Also, it's the Democratic Party. Get it right, you ignoramus.

(https://rationalwiki.org/w/images/b/b6/Fractal-wrongness.jpg)
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 27, 2018, 07:22:20 pm
3. And you're still ignoring Hebrew tradition.

5. And they fuck anyway. Better that they do so safely than unsafely. Teenagers are far less capable of making rational decisions than adults, especially when they've been indoctrinated practically since birth to believe lies, as they are across the US South.

6. And I'm not fine with women being reduced to incubator vats.

7. Trump's approval rating might hit 45% on a good day, and populist left policies have support everywhere in the country.

As for private charities, again, those do not have the same reach and scope as governments do, and crowdfunding campaigns reach their goals less than one-third (https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/269663) of the time. They are not, ultimately, a viable alternative. I pay taxes--I want services.

As for the Southern Strategy, it shifted Presidentially almost immediately. (It started in 1964, shifted even more in 1968, and only went back in 1976 because Carter was from Georgia, and in 1992 and 1996 because Clinton was from Arkansas and Perot was a spoiler. Only recently have some of those states, like Virginia and North Carolina, moved back from solidly Republican to swing.) With Congress, incumbency (and control of state legislatures in order to draw the maps) is a very powerful thing. And, as I said, both Mehlman and Steele admitted that it happened and that it was racist.

Also, it's the Democratic Party. Get it right, you ignoramus.

(https://rationalwiki.org/w/images/b/b6/Fractal-wrongness.jpg)

3. I am ignoring the Talmudic Jewish Tradition of the false religion of Judaism, not the ancient Hebrew Tradition.

5.  I am saying if a teen girl has sex and is impregnated, and goes through the burden of having to give birth, then she will realize the consequences of extramarital sex because she will not want to have to go through that burden again.

6. And I and God are not fine with babies getting murdered which is far worse than women having to give birth.

7. An approval rating in the 40s is an the typical average Presidential approval rating.

And it took a lot longer for the seats in Congress to switch to Republican.

“ A total of 21 Democrats in the Senate opposed the Civil Rights Act.  Only one of them, "Dixiecrat" Strom Thurmond, ever became a Republican.  The rest, including Al Gore, Sr. and Robert Byrd--a former Exalted Cyclops in the Ku Klux Klan--remained Democrats until the day they died.

Moreover, as those 20 lifelong Democrats retired, their Senate seats remained in Democrat hands for several decades afterwards.  So too did the overwhelming majority of the House seats in the South until 1994, when a Republican wave election swept the GOP into control of the House for the first time since 1952.  1994 was also the first time Republicans ever held a majority of House seats in the South--a full 30 years after the passage of the Civil Rights Act. 

From there, Republicans gradually built their support in the South until two more wave elections in 2010 and 2014 gave them the overwhelming majorities they enjoy today.”

https://newstalk1130.iheart.com/featured/common-sense-central/content/2018-05-01-the-myth-of-the-republican-democrat-switch/

Melman and Steele did that for political correctness.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 27, 2018, 08:17:34 pm
They "built their support" by offering what the Dixiecrats offered in terms of easing Southern white racial insecurities, not being the Dixiecrats. It's called  trading principles to give constituants what they want.

What amazes me is we have here a guy who insists that political parties, dependent as they are on the shifting winds of politics, have unchanging platforms chisled in stone but religious tradition is always altering whenever it suits his argument but unchanging when it doesn't.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: dpareja on July 27, 2018, 10:41:46 pm
3. Considering that your batshit insanity is largely the batshit insanity of Judaism with more batshit insanity heaped on top, I don't think you have any leg to stand on in calling Judaism "false".

5. That still means she got pregnant once, the likelihood of which could have been dramatically lessened with comprehensive sex education, and the second part of your claim is laughably false, since repeat teen pregnancies absolutely occur. (Like in Texas, which has the highest rate of any state in the US (https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2017/04/13/texas-highest-rate-repeat-teen-pregnancy-country)... and abstinence-only sex "education".)

6. Your "God" does not exist (a god might, but it ain't yours), so it's your word against mine and given how absolutely fucking nuts you are, your word is worth absolutely diddly-squat.

7. According to Gallup, Barack Obama never went below 40% (https://news.gallup.com/poll/116479/barack-obama-presidential-job-approval.aspx) and spent about a third of his Presidency above 50%. By contrast, Donald Trump's peak is 46%. (https://news.gallup.com/poll/201617/gallup-daily-trump-job-approval.aspx)

And yes, it took time to build up support, and the Republicans did that in part by stoking racial tensions and hatreds, partly in response to Northern Democrats' support for the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act. They had much quicker results in Presidential elections (where Goldwater won five states the first time out) than in Congressional elections, because of the power of incumbency and map-drawing.

You sound like Dinesh D'Souza, whose "career" is based on (shitty, because there are no good arguments for religion) Christian apologetics and denying that the political inversion took place, and so, like him, you are, as always...

(https://rationalwiki.org/w/images/b/b6/Fractal-wrongness.jpg)
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 27, 2018, 11:38:42 pm
Just finished some horrifying reading on the  secret mass grave dug by the Catholic staff containing 800 bodies of the kids they were supposed to protect (https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2018/07/27/theyre-still-debating-the-undebatable-at-tuam/Bon Secours Mother and Baby Home in Ireland). Want more Catholic examples of loving child protection, how about these doctors excommunicated for performing a life saving procedure on a nine year old girl (http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1883598,00.html)? The RCC's policies are all over these abominations done in the name of children when it's pretty clear they couldn't give a toss if children lived or died.

And we aren't even talking about the disease-related suffering caused by banning contraceptives in Africa and the coverup of predatory priests. Again, it's not the babbies, it's the bitterness. Hating what they can't control.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: dpareja on July 28, 2018, 12:10:59 am
Your opposition to comprehensive sex education puts the lie to all of your moralizing about abortion.

You want to control women. You don't want them having sex, probably because it's icky and scary to you, and when they do you want to punish them. You know full well that abstinence-only fails and comprehensive works, but that's the feature, not the bug, since you want a system that fails because while they'll fuck either way, with abstinence-only they'll be punished for it, and then you continue to punish them by turning them into nothing more than incubation vats and then chaining them to a child for the next eighteen years (when they could be getting a postsecondary education and starting on a good career that would give them independence and the freedom to chart their own courses in life) while not giving them stable social supports by forcing them to rely on private charities (most of which will proselytize to them and might not do shit for them unless they convert and indoctrinate their kid to boot, because you need that four-to-fourteen window).

Fuck you, Jacob. You are a pathetic piece of barely-human trash.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Kanzenkankaku on July 28, 2018, 02:29:48 am
So to stop fapping you want people to handcuff themselves? What if handcuffs just makes them hornier?

Are you into handcuffs too Jake?
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: niam2023 on July 28, 2018, 05:36:32 am
You know what, Jacob? Tonight, I'm gonna think about you watching me fuck your cousin while I masturbate.

How's that make you feel?
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 28, 2018, 08:38:27 am
3. Considering that your batshit insanity is largely the batshit insanity of Judaism with more batshit insanity heaped on top, I don't think you have any leg to stand on in calling Judaism "false".

5. That still means she got pregnant once, the likelihood of which could have been dramatically lessened with comprehensive sex education, and the second part of your claim is laughably false, since repeat teen pregnancies absolutely occur. (Like in Texas, which has the highest rate of any state in the US (https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2017/04/13/texas-highest-rate-repeat-teen-pregnancy-country)... and abstinence-only sex "education".)

6. Your "God" does not exist (a god might, but it ain't yours), so it's your word against mine and given how absolutely fucking nuts you are, your word is worth absolutely diddly-squat.

7. According to Gallup, Barack Obama never went below 40% (https://news.gallup.com/poll/116479/barack-obama-presidential-job-approval.aspx) and spent about a third of his Presidency above 50%. By contrast, Donald Trump's peak is 46%. (https://news.gallup.com/poll/201617/gallup-daily-trump-job-approval.aspx)

And yes, it took time to build up support, and the Republicans did that in part by stoking racial tensions and hatreds, partly in response to Northern Democrats' support for the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act. They had much quicker results in Presidential elections (where Goldwater won five states the first time out) than in Congressional elections, because of the power of incumbency and map-drawing.

You sound like Dinesh D'Souza, whose "career" is based on (shitty, because there are no good arguments for religion) Christian apologetics and denying that the political inversion took place, and so, like him, you are, as always...

(https://rationalwiki.org/w/images/b/b6/Fractal-wrongness.jpg)

5. Ok so after a few pregnancies she will realize that sex causes pregnancies, so she probably would have 2 at most.

7. Yes it took time to build up support, indicating that the racist voters remained solidly Democrat, and that the shift had factors other than race involved.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 28, 2018, 08:42:56 am
The Southern Strategy worked because it scooped up the racist voters. That was the point!

Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on July 28, 2018, 08:48:44 am
The Southern Strategy worked because it scooped up the racist voters. That was the point!

It did not work because it took years for the South to become Republican.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on July 28, 2018, 09:02:10 am
Someone hasn't looked at a map of safe Republican states on an electoral map in the last decade.

Or three.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: dpareja on July 28, 2018, 03:54:45 pm
Presidentially the Southern Strategy worked almost immediately, reversed only by candidates native to the South (Carter, and Clinton partly because of Perot). With Congress it took longer because there are other factors there--incumbency and maps.

And as for "two pregnancies and then she'll get it"? Fuck you. How about teaching everyone how to have sex safely so that almost none of them get pregnant unintentionally? (Oh wait, that would mean that women could enjoy themselves and not be chained to a kid and actually have a career. Can't have that!)
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 09, 2018, 07:59:23 pm
Ugh, I didn’t masturbate in weeks and then committed the sin today. But I am posting it here to be honest so that I am not a hypocrite. While masturbation is a sin, we all occasionally do it and we’re all sinners. The difference is that I have a Church and God to confess to, you guys don’t.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Sleepy on August 09, 2018, 08:09:48 pm
Ugh, I didn’t masturbate in weeks and then committed the sin today. But I am posting it here to be honest so that I am not a hypocrite. While masturbation is a sin, we all occasionally do it and we’re all sinners. The difference is that I have a Church and God to confess to, you guys don’t.

Do you just go to your local priest with a cloud of remorse hanging over you and say, "I'm sorry Father, I burped the worm again today." ? 'Cause that'd be great.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Jacob Harrison on August 09, 2018, 08:56:15 pm
Ugh, I didn’t masturbate in weeks and then committed the sin today. But I am posting it here to be honest so that I am not a hypocrite. While masturbation is a sin, we all occasionally do it and we’re all sinners. The difference is that I have a Church and God to confess to, you guys don’t.

Do you just go to your local priest with a cloud of remorse hanging over you and say, "I'm sorry Father, I burped the worm again today." ? 'Cause that'd be great.

Similar to that but with a certain general procedure. This is how the confession rite goes. www.catholicnewsagency.com/amp/resources/sacraments/reconciliation/rite-of-confession
Title: Re: What the Bible says about masturbation.
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on August 09, 2018, 11:01:54 pm
Ugh, I didn’t masturbate in weeks and then committed the sin today. But I am posting it here to be honest so that I am not a hypocrite. While masturbation is a sin, we all occasionally do it and we’re all sinners. The difference is that I have a Church and God to confess to, you guys don’t.

Do you just go to your local priest with a cloud of remorse hanging over you and say, "I'm sorry Father, I burped the worm again today." ? 'Cause that'd be great.

Similar to that but with a certain general procedure. This is how the confession rite goes. www.catholicnewsagency.com/amp/resources/sacraments/reconciliation/rite-of-confession
I thought your "confession" went "ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh, deeeenim CUZZZzzzz..."