"Segregate by race! that's why I post images on naked Japanese women!"
I just love the fact that they think they're playing sneaky, two hundred and nine dimensional chess over a public fucking imageboard!
Except that this was a campaign by white supremacists so why is it wrong to freak out over it?
Except that this was a campaign by white supremacists so why is it wrong to freak out over it?
Or trolls pretending to be white supremacists. With 4Chan, it's never easy to tell.
Are people still arguing for the merits of "ironic" racism? FFS!
It's like...
If you pull out a gun, point it at someone and then pull the trigger to reveal that you just had a toy gun... Then you can make the claim that you were just pretending to be a murderer and it was "just a prank bro!"
On the other hand. If you pull out a gun, point it at someone and then pull the trigger to reveal that it was a real gun and you actually shot the victim to death... You have lost the claim that it was merely a prank.
And if you actually read any of the stuff that I posted (rather than going to 8Chan and asking your buddies for a way to defend this) you will see that it's not in fact even a prank. It was from the very start a method to bring white-supremacist politics to the streets.
There is no need for such a campaign unless there is a general social attitude that being white is not somehow okay or there are a lot of people spreading that message. That's why "it's okay to be white" is harmful as a campaign message despite being superficially well-intentioned: it sends the sneaky message that people talking about white privilege think that being white makes you a bad person. This trick is something reactionary right wingers constantly use to paint anti-racism as racist against whites. Fighting this misconception is important as long but the tactics used need to be appropriate.
On December 23rd a grand jury decided not to indict the jailers involed in the death of Sandra Bland. On December 28th a grand jury decided not to indict officer Timothy Leohmman in the extra judical killing of 12-year old Tamir Rice. On December 26th 55 year-old Betty Jones was mistakingly shot and killed by police as she opened her door. Her neighbor 19-year old Quintonio LeGrier was also killed.
This is a rally in response to these events and the increasing violence and general terror administered by police towards people of color.
The purpose of this rally is as follows:
Agitation
Mobilization
Information
We ask that people of color who would like to bring written statements/speeches to address the ralley please let us know below so that we can add you to the list of schedueled speakers.
There will be an open speak-out afterwards for those who just want to speak.
Please be sure to bring warm clothing. Please also be sure to bring any signs or pictures of thoes affected by police brutality. We will meet at the center of the commons at 1pm.
Disclaimer: If you are a reporter at this event we will not be answering any questions.
Disclaimer: If you are a white person at this event note that the voices of people of color will take precedence in rally space.
@Lana "G.I.R.L." Reverse:
Why don't you build an aqueduct instead of carrying all that water? Think of your back!
Are people still arguing for the merits of "ironic" racism? FFS!
I guess you're not a Dave Chappelle fan, then.
Are people still arguing for the merits of "ironic" racism? FFS!
I guess you're not a Dave Chappelle fan, then.
Well Dave Chappelle isn't, he quit the show because he thought it had gone too far and that white people were laughing at it for the wrong reasons.
As far as the whole "Are they trolls or real Nazis":
You are walking in the wilderness and the grass starts moving. If you think "Oh shit a Tiger!" and run up the nearest tree, only for it to turn out to be just the wind, what happens? You feel dumb for a few minutes.
If you think "Meh just the wind" and then a tiger jumps out and attacks you when your back is turned, what happens? Congratulations, You're dead.
If you can't tell the difference it's perfectly reasonable to err to the side of caution.
You normalize and tacitly encourage and accept racism and/or naizism, and give credibility to the un-creditable "just joking" defense, depending which you were talking about.
It's for that same reason "Police lives matter" is racist. Nobody ever said it isn't okay to be white. The purpose of the campaign is to distract from actual problems by setting up a false equivalency as an excuse to start arguments and get angry.
Also I've got a question for you as well: If someone is claiming to be a Nazi online, but could just be either real or a troll, do you think assuming real is a bad thing, and if so why?
I couldn't read the NYtimes one because paywall,
Allow me to help you with that, as an NYT subscriber.
https://pastebin.com/WAC3UAXM (https://pastebin.com/WAC3UAXM)
The link is a transcript of the article, set to expire in one week and unlisted, to ensure that I don't hurt the newspaper's income in any way.
https://thoughtcatalog.com/emily-goldstein/2015/05/get-rid-of-white-people/ (https://thoughtcatalog.com/emily-goldstein/2015/05/get-rid-of-white-people/)
Allow me to help you with that, as an NYT subscriber.
https://pastebin.com/WAC3UAXM (https://pastebin.com/WAC3UAXM)
The link is a transcript of the article, set to expire in one week and unlisted, to ensure that I don't hurt the newspaper's income in any way.
Oh my fucking non-existent god most of that article is so awful it hurts. People are supposed to have sympathy for Murdoch for him losing one of his mansions in the California fires or treat McCain's offensive politics with silk gloves? Hate of whiteness "as a system" is implied to be offensive and racist? (The concept and system of "whiteness" is the base for separating races and modern racism, it is not referring to the white people as a race.)
https://thoughtcatalog.com/emily-goldstein/2015/05/get-rid-of-white-people/ (https://thoughtcatalog.com/emily-goldstein/2015/05/get-rid-of-white-people/)
Really? I hope that this is one of those moments where you didn't read your own links. "Emily Goldstein" calling for white genocide? The troll is so obvious that one of the first Google results for the name is an anti-semitic blog calling them out for doing harm to anti-semitic conspiracy theories.
A lot of this seems like nutpicking (https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Nutpicking), just because some of the most extreme outliers of people who talk about Black Pride, like the ones mentioned in the NYT piece, are raving loonies who call whites abominations doesn't discredit the idea of Black Pride per se-nor does it alter the fact that in the "anglosphere", whites are socially and economically on top and generally know who their ancestors were so don't have to fall back on skin color.
Way back in the day Run DMC used to rap about being proud to be black, if they thought white people were abominations what the hell were they doing performing with Aerosmith?
But I'm sure you think I should assume they are serious. That I should assume the Affinity writer genuinely wants to ban white men from voting and thought catalog girl really wants to be murdered. So why? Why should I assume they are serious but the guy claiming to be a nazi isn't? What's the difference?
You sited these articles as examples in response to the claim that "Nobody says it's not okay to be white". If you don't think they should be assumed to be dead serious, then my original point still stands.
If you have reason to believe the rustle in the grass is just the wind, then it's fine to assume so. It's if you can't tell the difference, and there are plenty of people on 4chan who are in fact actual Nazis. And the "Ironic" racism creates an environment that lets them flourish.
If it's not referring to white people as a race, then why use the term "whiteness?" I'm sure there are plenty of terms they could've used that aren't as loaded. Maybe I'm just being ignorant, but surely they could've called it something like "root racism." Could you imagine if they called it "Jewishness?"
And I love how you singled out the most controversial examples cited and wrote off the entire article because of them. Tell me, why didn't you mention the "Your DNA is an Abomination" article? It's only the example that starts the article.
Herein Lana again places the burden of disingenous fuckery by /pol and other assorted dolt-right anynymous channer snotgoblins on their readers, not the fuckers who penned the fuckery.
>We should assume these imageboard posts are 100% sincere
>Let's not jump to conclusions about these articles, they might be satirical
Pick one.
>We should assume these imageboard posts are 100% sincere
>Let's not jump to conclusions about these articles, they might be satirical
Pick one.
And if you're concerned about racism flourishing, then I'd say some posts on 4chan should be the least of your worries. Tell me, do you agree with the notion that Islamophobia pushes Muslims into the arms of the jihadis?
Oh, and if you think ironic racism on /pol/ helps real Nazis, then wouldn't the same be true regarding anti-white racists if these articles are satirical? Don't blame me, I'm only playing by your own rules.
Herein Lana again places the burden of disingenous fuckery by /pol and other assorted dolt-right anynymous channer snotgoblins on their readers, not the fuckers who penned the fuckery.
>We should assume these imageboard posts are 100% sincere
>Let's not jump to conclusions about these articles, they might be satirical
Pick one.
Were the articles OR the pol posts satirical? Even if they were it wouldn't disqualify either from encouraging someone who actually believes that shit.
I could try to explain to you the difference between punching up and down but the concepts of intersecting advantages and disaadvantages of race, class and opportunity seem to baffle you and it'd take all night!
>We should assume these imageboard posts are 100% sincere
>Let's not jump to conclusions about these articles, they might be satirical
Pick one.
Since it went completely over your head, the point I was making is that by the same logic you use to say that the Nazi's on pol are probably just being ironic, I can also say these articles are too. You're only applying "It's just ironic racism" to your own side.
QuoteAnd if you're concerned about racism flourishing, then I'd say some posts on 4chan should be the least of your worries. Tell me, do you agree with the notion that Islamophobia pushes Muslims into the arms of the jihadis?
To an extent it can be a factor, although it takes way more then just someone being a dick on the internet. You've got economic inequalities, cultural isolation, politicians fear-mongering about you and advocating bigoted policies. And even with all that the number of Muslims in the west who do join jihadi groups in the west is tiny. So no I don't think this is going to turn white dudes into Nazis if that's what you are getting at.
We need to dispense with this idea that attacking white people is automatically "punching up." Most white people are not corporate bigshots or old money WASPs. The sooner we realize that class carries far more advantages than race, the better it'll be for everyone.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/It%27s_Okay_To_Be_White
Just gonna leave this here.
Andrew Anglin - aka a giant fucking Nazi - defended the project and proclaimed its usefulness in advancing his agenda. So, as I said, this article says all you need to know about this project by the asshole of the internet.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/It%27s_Okay_To_Be_White
Just gonna leave this here.
Andrew Anglin - aka a giant fucking Nazi - defended the project and proclaimed its usefulness in advancing his agenda. So, as I said, this article says all you need to know about this project by the asshole of the internet.
And Osama bin Laden was concerned about global warming. Your point?
Be that as it may, Osama didn't proclaim its usefulness in advancing his agenda. That's where the difference comes in. Hitler ate sugar, and that doesn't make sugar-eaters Nazis. But. Hitler didn't (AFAIK) use sugar to promote Nazism. They're using this to promote Nazism. Which doesn't necessarily mean that all of the people who use this slogan are Nazis, but it's a helluva data point in that direction.
Being concerned about the rise of nazi's and alt-rightists is certainly valid. But some dumb people on the far left saying dumb things isn't the main cause, or even an important secondary one. How much discrimination do white dudes actually face in their day to day lives? As a white dude I can say very little.
The rise of Alt-Nazi's I'd argue has more to do with the shift in the overton window. White guys getting their news from Fox and Breitbart telling them that the scary foreigners are coming to get them and the mean liberals are pure evil baby killers, and hanging out online in places like 4chan where it becomes okay to scream "GASTHEKIKES" and pull that into something socially acceptable. We get our morality from what we see being rewarded and punished in the society around us, and when that is full of people screaming "Being white and christian makes you better then others, and the different are out to get you." we internalize that. Some random blogger is not responsible for the rise of the far right, it's Rupert Murdoch and Steve Bannon and Milo Yiannopoulos. And when the likes of you start whining "It's just Trolls being trolls" or "But muh Free Speech" when bigoted statements are criticized is part of the problem. It being acceptable to be a bigoted asshole results in people being bigoted assholes.
I'm not threatened in the least or intimidated by a bunch of rag articles written by people at Salon.
That you are.
The alt-right was a doomed idea from the start - formed by Nazis and Neo-Nazis chomping at the bit to indulge every bit of rage and hate in their hearts...to, I'll borrow their phrase, chimp out. They were waiting, eagerly, to find a cause innocuously named enough to escape the stigma of what they were, and then be able to engage in violence. That is all they ever were, all they ever will be, and why nothing good will ever emerge from that festooning overgrown privy.
I am a white guy.
I'm not threatened in the least or intimidated by a bunch of rag articles written by people at Salon.
They do produce rage and fear in the hearts and minds of those too utterly feeble-minded to imagine a world that isn't what they grew up with. These articles you produced only incite fear in the hearts and minds of feeble-minded men who are by their words, nomenclature and actions named "louts".
And I have NO sympathy whatsoever from brawling Trump Supporters or those who get into action against Anti-Fa - they elected this rampaging moron, and so I will not feel a shred of sympathy for them at all.
As for the death of Rural America, I can't really say I care. I have family out there - still can't say I care.
I suggest you don't give even this much of implied credit to Anal Paragon's stance by calling them "rag articles". In the context of the rest of the articles none of those headlines are offensive. Provocative, definitely. Yes, if a white writer wrote the same headlines about black people it would be a racist act even if the intended message wasn't. Privilege has its consequences and communication doesn't happen in a void where words and people have no social and historical context that influence the actual message sent.
The future of life on the planet depends on bringing the 500-year rampage of the white man to a halt. For five centuries his ever more destructive weaponry has become far too common. His widespread and better systems of exploiting other humans and nature dominate the globe.
By way of example, a recurring concern of those responding to the Times’ Woodrow Wilson op-ed was, “Where will it all end? Will we have to destroy Mount Rushmore?” some asked. Maybe we should. Not just because it honors slave owners Jefferson and Washington, Mount Rushmore is also a powerful symbol of brutality and racism toward indigenous people.
The beeb has a diversity policy? Someone page Damore so he can dredge up a Wikipedia article saying it's a very no good thing!
Seriously? Positive discrimination at the BBC bothers you? Why? Are there not enough old white guys in the British Broadcasting Service for you?
Figures published this year show that 13.4 percent of the BBC’s workforce is made up of employees from Black, Asian and other ethnic minority backgrounds.
Census date from 2011 shows that 13.1 percent of British citizens come from ethnic minority backgrounds, meaning the corporation’s workforce is already proportionally reflective of the population.
If anyone else is interested in discussing this part any further I'll try to find the energy to do so. It might be an fruitful and interesting discussion or debate with someone who has actual intellectual honesty. I've already spent too much energy on an alt-right troll whom I've decided to ignore long time ago.
So Lana has just admitted that she is Paragon, hasn't she? This thread is the confession.
The beeb has a diversity policy? Someone page Damore so he can dredge up a Wikipedia article saying it's a very no good thing!
Seriously? Positive discrimination at the BBC bothers you? Why? Are there not enough old white guys in the British Broadcasting Service for you?QuoteFigures published this year show that 13.4 percent of the BBC’s workforce is made up of employees from Black, Asian and other ethnic minority backgrounds.
Census date from 2011 shows that 13.1 percent of British citizens come from ethnic minority backgrounds, meaning the corporation’s workforce is already proportionally reflective of the population.
You were saying?
And it bothers me because it's excluding people based entirely on their skin color. There's affirmative action, and then there's outright racist discrimination.If anyone else is interested in discussing this part any further I'll try to find the energy to do so. It might be an fruitful and interesting discussion or debate with someone who has actual intellectual honesty. I've already spent too much energy on an alt-right troll whom I've decided to ignore long time ago.
Are you saying I'm an alt-right troll?
So Lana has just admitted that she is Paragon, hasn't she? This thread is the confession.
Either he got careless and forgot to pay attention to his charade or he got bored of it. I doubt it is the latter since he seems to enjoy feigning innocence too much. See the previous post for another example.
The beeb has a diversity policy? Someone page Damore so he can dredge up a Wikipedia article saying it's a very no good thing!
Seriously? Positive discrimination at the BBC bothers you? Why? Are there not enough old white guys in the British Broadcasting Service for you?QuoteFigures published this year show that 13.4 percent of the BBC’s workforce is made up of employees from Black, Asian and other ethnic minority backgrounds.
Census date from 2011 shows that 13.1 percent of British citizens come from ethnic minority backgrounds, meaning the corporation’s workforce is already proportionally reflective of the population.
You were saying?
And it bothers me because it's excluding people based entirely on their skin color. There's affirmative action, and then there's outright racist discrimination.If anyone else is interested in discussing this part any further I'll try to find the energy to do so. It might be an fruitful and interesting discussion or debate with someone who has actual intellectual honesty. I've already spent too much energy on an alt-right troll whom I've decided to ignore long time ago.
Are you saying I'm an alt-right troll?
Are you so incompetent you can't read? Work that one out for yourself!
Experience with your previous incarnations actually points against a quick banning. Despite people noticing the textual similarities between Dynamic Dragon and Ultimate Paragon for extended periods such that you were often called Dynamic Paragon it took the whole Leonardo Fernando kerfuffle before anyone really could be arsed with bannings.
So that argument is without historical support. The absence of banning only really is evidence that you have to work overtime to get banned.
While there were some theories that the knight of the raging boner was a gestalt entity, it is highly unlikely that they would be able to have a collective posting style so similar and annoying.
I wonder what your possible motivation could be to keep the charade up. I guess we should all be flatttered.
Yeah, because proportion of the workforce translates to proportional represtation in creative roles..
Becauase all broadcasting roles are equal, right?
I'd rather believe you're an alt right troll the alternative. The alternative scenario, that you're here to advocate sincerely for us straight, cracker fellas almost would erase those historical priviges because you suck so badly at it!
Can we have someone else represent for us straight honky dudes? Because Paragon was actually better at it than the current bearer of the White Man's Burden around here!
And in any case, I don't understand why departmental representation is so important. If the BBC is like most private corporations...
Do you think Lana the Ultimate Dynamic Reverse Paragon Dragon even think's he's fooling us? Everyone, I think, at this point has made it clear we know it's him but he's still playing dumb
What are my ideas on the 'alt-right', cracker? I can't recall having expressed any recently.
Edit:You complain that there is no evidence. My point is textual similarities are evidence. If textual similarities were not considered evidence of authorship entire bodies of scholarship would break down.
So if your posting styles are the same it is evidence that they share an author.
How many writing styles do you have?
Further edit: Maybe this is your tired writing style? How many Trans brothers do you have?
And in any case, I don't understand why departmental representation is so important. If the BBC is like most private corporations...
Oh dear...
Listen yankee-doodle, outside the land of Guns, Gawd and Gorporations, government funded broadcasters are a thing! Auntie (https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-23572,00.html) has never, ever been a "private corporation."
Anyway, whose goalposts are we talking about? Is this a diversity policy for scriptwriters or for all and any arms of the British government funded British Broadcasting Service inclusive of janitorial and help desks?
The beeb has a diversity policy? Someone page Damore so he can dredge up a Wikipedia article saying it's a very no good thing!
Seriously? Positive discrimination at the BBC bothers you? Why? Are there not enough old white guys in the British Broadcasting Service for you?
Except that this was a campaign by white supremacists so why is it wrong to freak out over it?
Or trolls pretending to be white supremacists. With 4Chan, it's never easy to tell.
But that's beside the point. What I'm saying is that they wanted people to flip out, and that's exactly what happened. Even worse, some of these people knew what the anons were planning, and still took the bait.
Except that this was a campaign by white supremacists so why is it wrong to freak out over it?
Or trolls pretending to be white supremacists. With 4Chan, it's never easy to tell.
But that's beside the point. What I'm saying is that they wanted people to flip out, and that's exactly what happened. Even worse, some of these people knew what the anons were planning, and still took the bait.
If you're pretending to be a white supremacist to "troll," then you're a white supremacist. Some things aren't funny.
I know you're going through a difficult timeYeah-fuck off with that condescending horseshit!
"A Modest Proposal" was clearly ribbing the privileged, racist chan-wankers on the other hand...
And Lana a corporation, government or otherwise, presumably makes policy based on areas of percieved need - which might be one department or it might be the whole thing. That is entirely context dependent. Why is this so hard for you to get your head around it?
Except that this was a campaign by white supremacists so why is it wrong to freak out over it?
Or trolls pretending to be white supremacists. With 4Chan, it's never easy to tell.
But that's beside the point. What I'm saying is that they wanted people to flip out, and that's exactly what happened. Even worse, some of these people knew what the anons were planning, and still took the bait.
If you're pretending to be a white supremacist to "troll," then you're a white supremacist. Some things aren't funny.
Then I suppose Jonathan Swift was a cannibal.
That isn't how logic works. Cannibalism is fucking hilarious. Racism isn't.What about cannibals who refuse to eat them filthy niggers?
Now, go eat a dick.(click to show/hide)
That isn't how logic works. Cannibalism is fucking hilarious. Racism isn't.What about cannibals who refuse to eat them filthy niggers?
Now, go eat a dick.(click to show/hide)
The thing is that, unlike "cultural Marxism" which is a made up boogeyman "cryptofascism" is actually a real phenomenon.
There are Neo-Nazis and white supremacists who use internet memes and "just joking man" excuse to spread their message. Folks like Richard Spencer have openly said that they are trying to recruit young men by making a "totally not Neo-Nazies" movement out of the Alt-Right and using things like the "Pepe" meme to do so.
By using those same memes and "just joking when I say we should kill all degenerates lol why so serius?" defense the 4Chan trolls are helping Neo-Nazis. Because at sizeable amount of the people using those memes are real Neo-Nazis and some of the others are lured in because they find a group where they can openly be racist and not be punished for it. (Partially because some of the others think that they are just joking about it and partially because some of them really are racist.)
Meanwhile, Queens cannibalism jokes are not helping a pro-cannibalism agenda BECAUSE NO SUCH MOVEMENT REALLY EXISTS!
So... Though a 4Chan troll may have a different motive for harassing people and sending death and rape threats to minorities (mainly, he just thinks that it is fun) than the Neo-Nazis who do it as well, in the end it does not matter. They bolster the Neo-Nazis by making them seem more numerous and cause real harm by spreading hateful messages and threats.
Meanwhile, Queens cannibalism jokes are not helping a pro-cannibalism agenda BECAUSE NO SUCH MOVEMENT REALLY EXISTS!
Well that's sort of the point, if you have a job area where your diversity policy has identified a distinct lack of non crackers and/or barriers to non crackers getting work. It might not apply to every position description in your entire organisation hence targeting it at scriptwriters for instance. If it already resembles a tin of crackers you aren't going to make it more diverse by pouring more of them in!"A Modest Proposal" was clearly ribbing the privileged, racist chan-wankers on the other hand...
And Lana a corporation, government or otherwise, presumably makes policy based on areas of percieved need - which might be one department or it might be the whole thing. That is entirely context dependent. Why is this so hard for you to get your head around it?
What difference does that make?
And I understand that corporations make policies based on perceived need. What I don't understand is why that justifies outright racial discrimination. We're not even talking about AA, we're talking about "no crackers need apply."
Well that's sort of the point, if you have a job area where your diversity policy has identified a distinct lack of non crackers and/or barriers to non crackers getting work. It might not apply to every position description in your entire organisation hence targeting it at scriptwriters for instance. If it already resembles a tin of crackers you aren't going to make it more diverse by pouring more of them in!"A Modest Proposal" was clearly ribbing the privileged, racist chan-wankers on the other hand...
And Lana a corporation, government or otherwise, presumably makes policy based on areas of percieved need - which might be one department or it might be the whole thing. That is entirely context dependent. Why is this so hard for you to get your head around it?
What difference does that make?
And I understand that corporations make policies based on perceived need. What I don't understand is why that justifies outright racial discrimination. We're not even talking about AA, we're talking about "no crackers need apply."
The thing is that, unlike "cultural Marxism" which is a made up boogeyman "cryptofascism" is actually a real phenomenon.
There are Neo-Nazis and white supremacists who use internet memes and "just joking man" excuse to spread their message. Folks like Richard Spencer have openly said that they are trying to recruit young men by making a "totally not Neo-Nazies" movement out of the Alt-Right and using things like the "Pepe" meme to do so.
By using those same memes and "just joking when I say we should kill all degenerates lol why so serius?" defense the 4Chan trolls are helping Neo-Nazis. Because at sizeable amount of the people using those memes are real Neo-Nazis and some of the others are lured in because they find a group where they can openly be racist and not be punished for it. (Partially because some of the others think that they are just joking about it and partially because some of them really are racist.)
Meanwhile, Queens cannibalism jokes are not helping a pro-cannibalism agenda BECAUSE NO SUCH MOVEMENT REALLY EXISTS!
So... Though a 4Chan troll may have a different motive for harassing people and sending death and rape threats to minorities (mainly, he just thinks that it is fun) than the Neo-Nazis who do it as well, in the end it does not matter. They bolster the Neo-Nazis by making them seem more numerous and cause real harm by spreading hateful messages and threats.
First off, I would like to clarify my stance. I do not think harassment is ever acceptable, no matter the motivations behind it. It doesn't matter if somebody is a white supremacist or just an edgelord, they're still hurting other people. So "jk lol" is not an acceptable defense for harassment. I hope we can at least agree on that.
Now, with that out of the way, I think you're exaggerating the threat posed by these jokes. If they had as much recruiting power as you seem to be claiming, I think the alt-right would be much larger by now.