Author Topic: Mosque Burner says "I only know what I hear on Fox News"  (Read 8847 times)

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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Mosque Burner says "I only know what I hear on Fox News"
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2012, 02:00:12 am »
Their defense was, if I recall correctly, that they weren't a "news station", but rather an "entertainment station."
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Mosque Burner says "I only know what I hear on Fox News"
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2012, 02:07:11 am »
Their defense was, if I recall correctly, that they weren't a "news station", but rather an "entertainment station."

Yeah, I think they got an entertainment licence for precisely that reason.

(They tried expanding to Canada. One reason they were rejected was because the CRTC wanted more homegrown content, so we got Sun News instead. The other reason was because they'd actually have to abide by our regulatory structure, the like of which doesn't exist in the US any more.)
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Offline wrongfrog

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Re: Mosque Burner says "I only know what I hear on Fox News"
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2012, 11:58:20 am »
Their defense was, if I recall correctly, that they weren't a "news station", but rather an "entertainment station."

Yeah, I think they got an entertainment licence for precisely that reason.

(They tried expanding to Canada. One reason they were rejected was because the CRTC wanted more homegrown content, so we got Sun News instead. The other reason was because they'd actually have to abide by our regulatory structure, the like of which doesn't exist in the US any more.)
do they actually attempt to ensure journalistic integrity there?

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mosque Burner says "I only know what I hear on Fox News"
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2012, 12:14:16 pm »
Their defense was, if I recall correctly, that they weren't a "news station", but rather an "entertainment station."

Yeah, I think they got an entertainment licence for precisely that reason.

(They tried expanding to Canada. One reason they were rejected was because the CRTC wanted more homegrown content, so we got Sun News instead. The other reason was because they'd actually have to abide by our regulatory structure, the like of which doesn't exist in the US any more.)
do they actually attempt to ensure journalistic integrity there?

Yes. As far as I know journalists can be sued for libel and slander (though they are allowed the defence that they were diligent in their research and made a good-faith effort to determine the truth).

See here, for another example.

Basically, we have freedom of the press (Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, Section 2(b)), but that is guaranteed "subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society." (Ibid., Section 1.)
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Material Defender

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Re: Mosque Burner says "I only know what I hear on Fox News"
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2012, 02:03:16 pm »
Libel and slander are not protected by the 1st amendment, but if the 'libel and slander' is meant in a non-truthful manner, such in sarcastic or insulting entertainment, it can be allowed since it's not actually claiming these things.

Though I think someone should force fox news to be renamed "Fox Opinion."
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Mosque Burner says "I only know what I hear on Fox News"
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2012, 02:04:15 pm »
Libel and slander are not protected by the 1st amendment, but if the 'libel and slander' is meant in a non-truthful manner, such in sarcastic or insulting entertainment, it can be allowed since it's not actually claiming these things.

Yeah, I don't think that's allowed as a defence up here.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline wrongfrog

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Re: Mosque Burner says "I only know what I hear on Fox News"
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2012, 02:09:24 pm »
dpareja, you're rekindling my desire to move to Canada. That sounds like an awesome law, America desperately needs something like that, especially during presidential elections. Over here, we actually have people get angry when debate moderators fact check, and say that fact checking is something that should be done AFTER the debate...when most people stop giving a shit. Too bad I heard the job market for teachers in Canada is ass.

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mosque Burner says "I only know what I hear on Fox News"
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2012, 02:13:13 pm »
dpareja, you're rekindling my desire to move to Canada. That sounds like an awesome law, America desperately needs something like that, especially during presidential elections. Over here, we actually have people get angry when debate moderators fact check, and say that fact checking is something that should be done AFTER the debate...when most people stop giving a shit. Too bad I heard the job market for teachers in Canada is ass.

Well, I'm going from memory; I haven't checked the various court rulings and CRTC decisions.

And right now our government's not exactly that great. (Things that are too invasive: long-gun registry, long-form census. Things that are not too invasive: being able to know everything every Canadian does on the internet.)
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Material Defender

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Re: Mosque Burner says "I only know what I hear on Fox News"
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2012, 02:34:34 pm »
Libel and slander are not protected by the 1st amendment, but if the 'libel and slander' is meant in a non-truthful manner, such in sarcastic or insulting entertainment, it can be allowed since it's not actually claiming these things.

Yeah, I don't think that's allowed as a defence up here.

So... a comedian cannot slander or libel someone to make a sarcastic or cutting joke even if they made it clear it was fiction? That sounds really like some sort of anti-sedition law actually. Not to be rude, but yeah. There needs to be room for political and public dissent against figures without breaching into true libel and slander (Which means factual claims are made).

I mean, I know there's a fine line between spewing bullshit and hoping people assume its true and telling a joke about someone they think is a bad political leader to exaggerate claims of their incompetence/corruption.
The material needs a defender more than the spiritual. If there is a higher power, it can defend itself from the material. Thus denotes 'higher power'.

"Not to know is bad. Not to want to know is worse. Not to hope is unthinkable. Not to care is unforgivable." -Nigerian Saying

Offline wrongfrog

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Re: Mosque Burner says "I only know what I hear on Fox News"
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2012, 02:48:00 pm »
dpareja, you're rekindling my desire to move to Canada. That sounds like an awesome law, America desperately needs something like that, especially during presidential elections. Over here, we actually have people get angry when debate moderators fact check, and say that fact checking is something that should be done AFTER the debate...when most people stop giving a shit. Too bad I heard the job market for teachers in Canada is ass.

Well, I'm going from memory; I haven't checked the various court rulings and CRTC decisions.

And right now our government's not exactly that great. (Things that are too invasive: long-gun registry, long-form census. Things that are not too invasive: being able to know everything every Canadian does on the internet.)
I've also heard something about your prime minister being a colonialist dick? That's based on the recent First Nations drama (I hope I have it named right).

Offline Material Defender

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Re: Mosque Burner says "I only know what I hear on Fox News"
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2012, 03:09:24 pm »
dpareja, you're rekindling my desire to move to Canada. That sounds like an awesome law, America desperately needs something like that, especially during presidential elections. Over here, we actually have people get angry when debate moderators fact check, and say that fact checking is something that should be done AFTER the debate...when most people stop giving a shit. Too bad I heard the job market for teachers in Canada is ass.

Well, I'm going from memory; I haven't checked the various court rulings and CRTC decisions.

And right now our government's not exactly that great. (Things that are too invasive: long-gun registry, long-form census. Things that are not too invasive: being able to know everything every Canadian does on the internet.)
I've also heard something about your prime minister being a colonialist dick? That's based on the recent First Nations drama (I hope I have it named right).

I think its more Imperialism than colonialism in most areas.
The material needs a defender more than the spiritual. If there is a higher power, it can defend itself from the material. Thus denotes 'higher power'.

"Not to know is bad. Not to want to know is worse. Not to hope is unthinkable. Not to care is unforgivable." -Nigerian Saying

Offline Atheissimo

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Re: Mosque Burner says "I only know what I hear on Fox News"
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2012, 05:03:15 pm »
Their defense was, if I recall correctly, that they weren't a "news station", but rather an "entertainment station."

Yeah, I think they got an entertainment licence for precisely that reason.

(They tried expanding to Canada. One reason they were rejected was because the CRTC wanted more homegrown content, so we got Sun News instead. The other reason was because they'd actually have to abide by our regulatory structure, the like of which doesn't exist in the US any more.)

We have the same thing in the UK. In order to receive funding from the government, TV channels have to uphold the 'public service' remit. Ie. they have to show a certain amount of factual, childrens, religious, science etc. programming each week. They also have to remain politically neutral.

That's the only thing the kept Murdoch from ruining the TV as well as print, hence why British TV and Radio news is a (debatable) paragon of integrity in the world and British print media is seen as a heap of derp and fail.

It's because the BBC were scared of what happened in the American radio market when that was set up. There was basically no regulation at all, there were several different stations per frequency, the bigger stations were able to crush the little ones through advertising funding which left the airwaves full of bullshit and snake oil. To avoid the same sort of chaos in the UK they decided there should be strict regulation of broadcast media to keep it civil.

The exact opposite was true of the UK newspaper industry. The Americans saw what happened in Britain when the newspaper tax was lifted and anybody with a press could churn out salacious nonsense and call it news, supported by the financial might of the 'press barons'. Thus, when American newspapers got going they stuck to a moral code of practice that keeps them comparatively noble to this day.
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Offline Canadian Mojo

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Re: Mosque Burner says "I only know what I hear on Fox News"
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2012, 05:44:01 pm »
dpareja, you're rekindling my desire to move to Canada. That sounds like an awesome law, America desperately needs something like that, especially during presidential elections. Over here, we actually have people get angry when debate moderators fact check, and say that fact checking is something that should be done AFTER the debate...when most people stop giving a shit. Too bad I heard the job market for teachers in Canada is ass.

Well, I'm going from memory; I haven't checked the various court rulings and CRTC decisions.

And right now our government's not exactly that great. (Things that are too invasive: long-gun registry, long-form census. Things that are not too invasive: being able to know everything every Canadian does on the internet.)
I've also heard something about your prime minister being a colonialist dick? That's based on the recent First Nations drama (I hope I have it named right).
Really, he's just an all around dick as are most of his party.

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mosque Burner says "I only know what I hear on Fox News"
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2012, 09:29:44 pm »
Libel and slander are not protected by the 1st amendment, but if the 'libel and slander' is meant in a non-truthful manner, such in sarcastic or insulting entertainment, it can be allowed since it's not actually claiming these things.

Yeah, I don't think that's allowed as a defence up here.

So... a comedian cannot slander or libel someone to make a sarcastic or cutting joke even if they made it clear it was fiction? That sounds really like some sort of anti-sedition law actually. Not to be rude, but yeah. There needs to be room for political and public dissent against figures without breaching into true libel and slander (Which means factual claims are made).

I mean, I know there's a fine line between spewing bullshit and hoping people assume its true and telling a joke about someone they think is a bad political leader to exaggerate claims of their incompetence/corruption.

I'm not entirely clear on the law, admittedly. Might have something to do with claiming to report the news, which FOX does by dint of its name, and comedians do not.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Mosque Burner says "I only know what I hear on Fox News"
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2012, 02:33:03 am »
"I only know what I hear on Fox News".

Translation: Very little.

I would love to see if / how Fox would handle this...

They'll keep as far away from it as possible, I'm sure.  Maybe an offhand comment or two from Billo the Clown or Glenn "Nazi Tourette's" Beck, but nothing official.  Makes their side look bad, and it'd probably be easier to simply ignore the whole thing than to try and do anything with it.
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