Author Topic: Worst of Social Justice  (Read 480659 times)

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Offline Osama bin Bambi

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2013, 09:24:10 pm »
It's so easy to view the world in black and white. But grey? I don't know what to do with grey.

Make 50 shades of it.
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Offline Igor

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2013, 11:12:55 pm »
It's so easy to view the world in black and white. But grey? I don't know what to do with grey.

Make 50 shades of it.
50,000 shades, more like.


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Offline Hofstadter's Tortoise

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2013, 11:35:18 pm »
It's so easy to view the world in black and white. But grey? I don't know what to do with grey.

Make 50 shades of it.

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Offline Thejebusfire

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2013, 01:39:12 am »
Social justice warrior movethefuckoverbro explains why they can't just simply ask "bro" to move over:

Quote
First of all, I shouldn’t have to. They are in public and should be acting appropriately, which includes not encroaching on other people’s space and not feeling entitled to as many seats as you can fit your legs onto.
Second, asking a man to move is incredibly intimidating for women, because of the very real threat of male violence. If you don’t understand this you probably also don’t understand why women don’t arbitrarily take any old route home at night and I recommend talking to a woman irl about her safety routines.
Third, initiating conversation with men, even if it’s just to ask them to move over, often leads to continued and extremely unwelcome attention from the man. Like, ‘excuse me’ somehow gets regarded as a come on


I'm sorry but violence isn't a normal response to "could you please move over." Ever. That's not normal.
How do these people even function?

Offline chitoryu12

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2013, 01:43:51 am »
I wonder if she's ever fled in terror at a man who casually glanced at her.
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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2013, 02:01:14 am »
This one does have some point but I'm infurated be the tone of the article:

http://kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest-blogger-starling-schrodinger%E2%80%99s-rapist-or-a-guy%E2%80%99s-guide-to-approaching-strange-women-without-being-maced/

Seriously, she has a point about not cornering a stranger in the corner to start a conversation with her but the whole article is just...

"Schroedinger's rapist?" Apparently there is nothing that a man can do to prove that he is not a potential rapist.

Which might be true from a certain point of view but the whole shaming the men aspect just annoys me.

But the thing that annoys me the most is that if the tone was different. If this wasn't so passive agressive rant I would have put it in the GOOD Social Justice thread.
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Offline Lithp

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2013, 02:30:04 am »
Quote
I recommend talking to a woman irl about her safety routines.

Uh, if conversing with a man is so intimidating, that means I would be making a threat. Fuck, that even sounds kind of like a threat to ME. "So, what kind of safety routes do you take, hm?"

Quote
This one does have some point but I'm infurated be the tone of the article:

I don't see why you would be. I am pretty damn biased when it comes to these "constantly second guess yourself as coming across as some kind of criminal weirdo" type posts, & even I find little to complain about in here. I'd even say that a fair amount of it is pretty funny, especially given the subject matter.

Offline chitoryu12

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2013, 02:38:56 am »
This one does have some point but I'm infurated be the tone of the article:

http://kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest-blogger-starling-schrodinger%E2%80%99s-rapist-or-a-guy%E2%80%99s-guide-to-approaching-strange-women-without-being-maced/

Seriously, she has a point about not cornering a stranger in the corner to start a conversation with her but the whole article is just...

"Schroedinger's rapist?" Apparently there is nothing that a man can do to prove that he is not a potential rapist.

Which might be true from a certain point of view but the whole shaming the men aspect just annoys me.

But the thing that annoys me the most is that if the tone was different. If this wasn't so passive agressive rant I would have put it in the GOOD Social Justice thread.

I think my main problem is the negative effect that approaching every man like a potential rapist will cause. It results in inherent lack of trust and intimidation by all men that she approaches, which will inevitably result in unconscious (or possibly even conscious) words and body language that treat the person as a potential threat. How would you feel if every stranger you met immediately responded to your approach as a possible threat and acted accordingly? You're not going to get along well with them, I bet.

Not to mention that, as is commonly stated, the vast majority of rapes are done by those that already knew the victim. Statistically, treating every strange man as a threat purely because he's a man is the OPPOSITE of what you should be doing.
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Offline Patches

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2013, 06:48:59 am »
Social justice warrior movethefuckoverbro explains why they can't just simply ask "bro" to move over:

Quote
First of all, I shouldn’t have to. They are in public and should be acting appropriately, which includes not encroaching on other people’s space and not feeling entitled to as many seats as you can fit your legs onto.
Second, asking a man to move is incredibly intimidating for women, because of the very real threat of male violence. If you don’t understand this you probably also don’t understand why women don’t arbitrarily take any old route home at night and I recommend talking to a woman irl about her safety routines.
Third, initiating conversation with men, even if it’s just to ask them to move over, often leads to continued and extremely unwelcome attention from the man. Like, ‘excuse me’ somehow gets regarded as a come on


I'm sorry but violence isn't a normal response to "could you please move over." Ever. That's not normal.
How do these people even function?
You'd... be surprised, actually.  I actually completely agree with this person's sentiments.  If you see a man who is already flagrantly displaying his disregard and contempt for other people, calling him on it, especially as a woman, is probably a very risky thing to do.  I can't imagine that the type of person who would willfully block other people's paths or take up more space than they need would be the type to just say, "Oh, I'm sorry" if asked to move.  The entire reason they're doing it is because they're looking for someone to challenge them, so they can use that as justification for a confrontation.

In short, what this person is saying is, "If you see a troll, don't feed it."

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2013, 07:56:54 am »
You'd... be surprised, actually.  I actually completely agree with this person's sentiments.  If you see a man who is already flagrantly displaying his disregard and contempt for other people, calling him on it, especially as a woman, is probably a very risky thing to do.  I can't imagine that the type of person who would willfully block other people's paths or take up more space than they need would be the type to just say, "Oh, I'm sorry" if asked to move.  The entire reason they're doing it is because they're looking for someone to challenge them, so they can use that as justification for a confrontation.

In short, what this person is saying is, "If you see a troll, don't feed it."
Except that's not qualified in that way, it's simply stating all men. Most anyone isn't going to open themselves up to dealing with an aggressive ass. That's not a woman thing, that's a human thing. I say this as someone who could easily accidentally block something by being carless while having a conversation, but would get out of the way if asked.

It's part of the internet "assume the worst about what that person didn't say" fitler. We see it a lot.


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It is shocking and horrifying to see so-called lefties and ‘progressives’ be so horrible to their non-human comrades.
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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2013, 08:16:41 am »
This one does have some point but I'm infurated be the tone of the article:

http://kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest-blogger-starling-schrodinger%E2%80%99s-rapist-or-a-guy%E2%80%99s-guide-to-approaching-strange-women-without-being-maced/

Seriously, she has a point about not cornering a stranger in the corner to start a conversation with her but the whole article is just...

"Schroedinger's rapist?" Apparently there is nothing that a man can do to prove that he is not a potential rapist.

Which might be true from a certain point of view but the whole shaming the men aspect just annoys me.

But the thing that annoys me the most is that if the tone was different. If this wasn't so passive agressive rant I would have put it in the GOOD Social Justice thread.

Honestly, I don't see what you mean about passive-aggressiveness. The author seems to be making an extraordinary effort to clarify that it's not that every man is a rapist. That it's not necessarily the man's fault if a woman feels uncomfortable or unsafe. It's a reaction to statistical realities and even an explanation of what to do to make sure you don't appear threatening to a stranger. Frankly, she could've just said "A shitload of rape is going on, I feel perfectly justified in being uncomfortable around people who might rape me" and leave it at that, but she went beyond that to make sure the message is clear.


Quote from: chitoryu12
Not to mention that, as is commonly stated, the vast majority of rapes are done by those that already knew the victim. Statistically, treating every strange man as a threat purely because he's a man is the OPPOSITE of what you should be doing.

1. Someone that asks you out on a date and then rapes you during it counts as rape by someone who knew the victim, I would guess.

2. What's what she should be doing, treating every stranger as a harmless kitten until they become acquaintances, at which point he becomes a rapist? I'd guess that the reason one is more likely to be raped by an acquaintance is a matter of opportunity. Being already in the same room in private, that sort of thing. Therefore, it makes perfect sense to be wary of giving strangers those opportunities until you know a bit more about them, and can make a slightly more informed judgement.

3. Even if the whole thing was fully unjustified (which I don't think it is), if someone feels uncomfortable around strange men then it still makes sense to make some allowances. If someone is afraid of flying because every time they get on a plane they vividly imagine a crash, then you can't just quote air crash statistics at them and then be surprised they still don't want to get on a plane. Even if the risk is not there, fear makes the experience unpleasant and they have every right to avoid it, or to try to act in such a way as to feel safer.
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Offline ThunderWulf

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2013, 10:46:51 am »
Social justice warrior movethefuckoverbro explains why they can't just simply ask "bro" to move over:

Quote
First of all, I shouldn’t have to. They are in public and should be acting appropriately, which includes not encroaching on other people’s space and not feeling entitled to as many seats as you can fit your legs onto.
Second, asking a man to move is incredibly intimidating for women, because of the very real threat of male violence. If you don’t understand this you probably also don’t understand why women don’t arbitrarily take any old route home at night and I recommend talking to a woman irl about her safety routines.
Third, initiating conversation with men, even if it’s just to ask them to move over, often leads to continued and extremely unwelcome attention from the man. Like, ‘excuse me’ somehow gets regarded as a come on


I'm sorry but violence isn't a normal response to "could you please move over." Ever. That's not normal.
How do these people even function?

I... what?  Yes, because I'm going to sexually assault you because you ask me to move over or say excuse me.  That is one of the DUMBEST things I've ever heard, and completely takes away from the very real problem of real violence against women.
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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2013, 11:05:12 am »
You'd... be surprised, actually.  I actually completely agree with this person's sentiments.  If you see a man who is already flagrantly displaying his disregard and contempt for other people, calling him on it, especially as a woman, is probably a very risky thing to do.  I can't imagine that the type of person who would willfully block other people's paths or take up more space than they need would be the type to just say, "Oh, I'm sorry" if asked to move.  The entire reason they're doing it is because they're looking for someone to challenge them, so they can use that as justification for a confrontation.

In short, what this person is saying is, "If you see a troll, don't feed it."
Not necessarily. Quite often I'll do that on public transport without even thinking about it. If there's no one sitting near me, I like to spread out a bit to get comfortable (as long as no one else is using that space, might as well, right?) I try to be aware of if the bus/train car is starting to fill up so I can pre-emptively make room if need be. However, I tend to zone out, especially if I'm listening to music, so sometimes a quick "excuse me" is necessary. I can't say the thought of attacking or raping someone over it has even crossed my mind.

That's not to say assholes on public transport isn't a thing. Far from it. Just that not everyone who takes up more space than they really should is a rapist laying in wait.

Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2013, 03:24:15 pm »
There's a problem with thinking that every time you are mildly inconvenienced by someone it is an intentionally malicious act on their part.
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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2013, 04:37:46 pm »
I'm always "fond" of people who use status to brush aside their actions. I was on a group that had a bully who happened to be trans. I was told they couldn't be a bully because trans folk are the ones who are bullied, not the bullies. Ye gods, the fact the person is trans does not keep them from being an asshat. Nor does it make them one. Their continued actions and refusal to acknowledge what they're doing wrong was what was making them an asshat.