Author Topic: The Warden's Guide to Firearm safety and views (WORK IN PROGRESS)  (Read 9966 times)

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Offline Damen

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Re: The Warden's Guide to Firearm safety and views (WORK IN PROGRESS)
« Reply #45 on: March 04, 2014, 04:06:05 pm »
I don't think this is deserving of its own thread, but merits a bit of discussion. Since it relates to guns (sort of), I'm putting it here.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ohio-student-who-pointed-finger-as-gun-suspended-for-3-days-1.2559249

Quote
A 10-year-old U.S. boy was suspended from school for three days for pretending his finger was a gun and pointing it at another student's head, the principal said.

Yes, zero-tolerance strikes again!

But that aside, should such behaviour be punished in some way? Doing that with a real gun is unsafe--as noted by others in this thread, never point a gun at someone you're not willing to kill.

This strikes me less as being about guns and more as being about the stupidity of Zero Tolerance. By all means, make a thread about that issue; it's one that ought to be discussed.
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Offline chitoryu12

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Re: The Warden's Guide to Firearm safety and views (WORK IN PROGRESS)
« Reply #46 on: March 04, 2014, 11:18:56 pm »
I don't think this is deserving of its own thread, but merits a bit of discussion. Since it relates to guns (sort of), I'm putting it here.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ohio-student-who-pointed-finger-as-gun-suspended-for-3-days-1.2559249

Quote
A 10-year-old U.S. boy was suspended from school for three days for pretending his finger was a gun and pointing it at another student's head, the principal said.

Yes, zero-tolerance strikes again!

But that aside, should such behaviour be punished in some way? Doing that with a real gun is unsafe--as noted by others in this thread, never point a gun at someone you're not willing to kill.

There's a difference between a gun and a finger. Practice firearm safety all you want, but practice it with something that actually shoots a projectile. A toy gun or a finger? If you're so concerned about proper gun safety that you won't even point a finger gun at someone, you should probably rethink your life.
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Offline Stormwarden

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Re: The Warden's Guide to Firearm safety and views (WORK IN PROGRESS)
« Reply #47 on: March 22, 2014, 03:25:49 am »
One thing that has been on my mind:

All freedoms have responsibilities attached to them. You're free to say what you want, so long as a) You accept that people can call bullshit on you, and b) It causes no harm to others (thus why libel and slander aren't covered, and neither is yelling "fire" at a crowded theater). Naturally, the greater the harm that can be inflicted, the greater the responsibility that is attached.

And it doesn't get much bigger than the responsibility attached to owning a firearm. THAT is what I espouse. When you draw that firearm, you must assume responsibility for what you do next. The moment that bullet leaves the barrel, it doesn't care what it hits. If you wish to own a gun, and are legally permitted to do so, by all means. But take good care in doing so. Because, by human nature, right or wrong, people will reflect your actions to other gun owners. Be wise in your actions.


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Offline rookie

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Re: The Warden's Guide to Firearm safety and views (WORK IN PROGRESS)
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2014, 12:38:08 pm »
There's something else that came to me recently I think might relevant here. But let me do a bit of background first. Mrs. Rookie hasn't always been a huge fan of me having guns. I'd like to think I'm pretty responsible. The guns are unloaded in a safe and the bullets and shells are in a box in the top shelf of my closet under some very boring looking papers. And they only come out every six months when I clean them (at night one all the kids are in bed asleep). Anyways, lately (I'm guessing due to the fact that where I now live is a house of estrogen) she gave me the go ahead to get a hunting dog. I mentioned a chessie in my dog rescue thread. At some point she saw a YouTube video of a retriever and his owner having the time of their lives duck hunting. And she thought that kinda looks like fun. So she started talking about maybe getting her hunting license and maybe getting her own shotgun. That got me thinking about getting her one.

Ok. Here comes the relevant part. It's a big mistake for a few reasons to buy a gun for someone else. First is the obvious. It might not be exactly legal in your state to buy a gun for someone who isn't you. In Maryland it is anyways. Second, it's been mentioned not all guns are the same. In my example of a shotgun (what I have the most experience with)the differences between guns are huge. Different lengths, gages, weights, actions (pump, semi auto, et. al.), even where the safety is, and whatnot can make for a different comfort level.

For example, I have two shotguns I use for hunting. Both are the same gage (16 for anyone who's curious). Both are made for upland hunting. My Mossberg I use primarily for grouse. The barrel is a good two inches shorter which is good in heavy grouse cover. It's a bolt action, very slow shooting. But the way grouse fly in heavy cover it's rare to get that second shot anyways. It's heavy add hell which I like. Again, heavy cover. I can swing it up and the weight helps not get tangled in branches. And the thumb safety I like. It's more natural for me. My Winchester is my go to duck gun. It's a fast shooting pump action that holds double what the Mossberg does. It's lighter by a good three pounds. And it had an adjustable choke for longer shots. (In Rookie's perfect world the only two acceptable outcomes when you pull the trigger is a clean kill or a clean miss. I'd rather miss ten birds than cripple one. ) Of course the lighter weight means more kick, but I can live with that. The sights are a little different, I don't like them add much add I like the Mossberg's, but duck hunting I have more time to line them up. And because it's not add natural for more, like the safety, it makes me take my time and make each pull off the trigger better because of it.

So looking at these two very similar but very different guns, it makes me think I should no more buy her any gun than u should buy her a pair of shoes without her at least trying them on. This spring (if it ever gets to be spring in the mid Atlantic) we are going to shoot some skeet her and I. That'll give us a starting point in something she may be comfortable for her. Then to a few gun stores where she can hold some and practice swinging them up. She can feel the weight, see whAt her hands can comfortably grip for the trigger, see whAt length is good for her to tuck into get short.

Tl:dr version. A gun that isn't comfortable is dangerous to shoot in any situation, be it hunting or target shooting or self defence.

ETA: Oh yeah. Forgot to say this. Make sure you match your load (bullets) to what you want to kill. I said earlier I hate crippling birds. It's why I don't hunt geese, I don't have a gun big enough to kill then with one shot. It's the sane reason there is buck shot and there is small game shot. Even though my goal is to put meat on the table, I still want to avoid causing more pain than is necessary. For self defense I guess it would be to make sure the SOB is really down and can't cause me any more problems right then and there.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 12:48:41 pm by rookie »
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Offline Svata

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Re: The Warden's Guide to Firearm safety and views (WORK IN PROGRESS)
« Reply #49 on: June 04, 2014, 04:19:37 pm »
A crude but true piece of wisdom, straight from my dad-
"A gun is like a cock. Don't pull it out in public unless you have a damned good reason, and never start waving it around at people if you do." (If this is too distasteful, let me know so I can edit it, please.)
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Offline Damen

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Re: The Warden's Guide to Firearm safety and views (WORK IN PROGRESS)
« Reply #50 on: June 04, 2014, 04:51:48 pm »
Perfect.
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Offline chitoryu12

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Re: The Warden's Guide to Firearm safety and views (WORK IN PROGRESS)
« Reply #51 on: June 04, 2014, 05:46:26 pm »
A crude but true piece of wisdom, straight from my dad-
"A gun is like a cock. Don't pull it out in public unless you have a damned good reason, and never start waving it around at people if you do." (If this is too distasteful, let me know so I can edit it, please.)

"And make sure that you only point it at someone you really love."
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Offline Stormwarden

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Re: The Warden's Guide to Firearm safety and views (WORK IN PROGRESS)
« Reply #52 on: June 05, 2014, 02:02:39 am »
Well-spoken Svata, well-said.


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Offline Svata

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Re: The Warden's Guide to Firearm safety and views (WORK IN PROGRESS)
« Reply #53 on: June 05, 2014, 02:24:16 pm »
Glad you all liked it.
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Offline Stormwarden

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Re: The Warden's Guide to Firearm safety and views (WORK IN PROGRESS)
« Reply #54 on: August 31, 2014, 08:58:04 pm »
New rule in light of an event that happened at an Arizona gun range, in which a gun instructor bought it when he tried to teach a nine-year-old kid how to fire an Uzi on full auto.

Respect whatever firearm you use, and know the limits of both your guns and yourself. And above all, the only fully auto gun a kid should use is a paintball gun, and even then only with supervision.


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Offline guizonde

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Re: The Warden's Guide to Firearm safety and views (WORK IN PROGRESS)
« Reply #55 on: September 01, 2014, 05:10:37 am »
Hey, Stormwarden or Damen, I had a weird gun experience the other day. I work in a military surplus with a friend who collects old rifles for shows. We found an old-bolt action (probably an Enfield from WW1) but we had no way of seeing if the gun was hot, although it was seemingly unloaded. The lighting was bad, so what we did was use a flashlight aimed at the barrel (the light was on a counter, directly behind was a concrete support wall) and used a pocket mirror to check the breech. When we did not see any light, we closed the breech, threw the safety, locked it up with a post-it on the gun to ask if it was jammed or hot (the gun belongs to the boss), and put a warning note on the safe. Was this a good safety protocol? We were safe the entire time around, but I'm asking for a more experienced point of view.

Although my friend knows how to operate bolt-actions, I don't (I'm more used to shotguns, be they semi-auto or breakers), so I followed my gut who said:"I don't want a fist-sized homemade piercing, let's play it safe." All this despite my friend falling for the trap of the experienced:"don't worry, I got this." He still thanked me for my paranoia, because apparently, on the range, you have to be paranoid to avoid mistakes.

Great thread to the both of you, and many thanks.
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Offline Askold

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Re: The Warden's Guide to Firearm safety and views (WORK IN PROGRESS)
« Reply #56 on: September 01, 2014, 08:10:42 am »
If you pulled back the bolt (twist then pull and it goes back exposing the chamber and the top of the internal magazine) and there was no cartridge in there then it was safe. It is more likely that something is stuck inside the barrel which IS a risk and means that you should not fire the gun. (It could blow up in your face if you load the gun and fire it.)

It is possible that the gun has been "deactivated" by plugging the barrel which is done to firearms that are used as wallhangers, shown off in a museum or as theatre props (because you don't want to use a real gun in case someone steals it) but in that case the bolt has also been broken so that the gun will not fire. Another possibility is that there is just something stuck inside for whatever reason and it must be checked and removed.
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Offline guizonde

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Re: The Warden's Guide to Firearm safety and views (WORK IN PROGRESS)
« Reply #57 on: September 01, 2014, 08:25:03 am »
If you pulled back the bolt (twist then pull and it goes back exposing the chamber and the top of the internal magazine) and there was no cartridge in there then it was safe. It is more likely that something is stuck inside the barrel which IS a risk and means that you should not fire the gun. (It could blow up in your face if you load the gun and fire it.)

It is possible that the gun has been "deactivated" by plugging the barrel which is done to firearms that are used as wallhangers, shown off in a museum or as theatre props (because you don't want to use a real gun in case someone steals it) but in that case the bolt has also been broken so that the gun will not fire. Another possibility is that there is just something stuck inside for whatever reason and it must be checked and removed.

We didn't even think about that possibility, if only because it might have given us a false sense of security, but we'll check in that direction, thanks  :)
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Offline Askold

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Re: The Warden's Guide to Firearm safety and views (WORK IN PROGRESS)
« Reply #58 on: September 01, 2014, 08:50:00 am »
If there is no cartridge inside it (and you should be able to see it because it would normally come out with the bolt or if the extractor is damaged it would be visible at the end of the barrel) then I can guarantee that a bolt action rifle will not explode on its own.

If the barrel really is plugged then certainly it should be checked and the obstruction removed if you are planning to use it. Basically, even a small obstruction that does not completely plug the barrel WILL raise the pressure in the barrel if the gun is fired which can make the barrel rupture or blow up the bolt.

If you remove the bolt then you can also look into the barrel from either end of the gun (through a mirror if you wish) but HOW to remove the bolt depends a bit on the particular type of rifle and I can give a few clues if you want but it is better if someone who knows rifles does it personally.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Damen

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Re: The Warden's Guide to Firearm safety and views (WORK IN PROGRESS)
« Reply #59 on: September 01, 2014, 08:28:25 pm »
Hey, Stormwarden or Damen, I had a weird gun experience the other day. I work in a military surplus with a friend who collects old rifles for shows. We found an old-bolt action (probably an Enfield from WW1) but we had no way of seeing if the gun was hot, although it was seemingly unloaded. The lighting was bad, so what we did was use a flashlight aimed at the barrel (the light was on a counter, directly behind was a concrete support wall) and used a pocket mirror to check the breech. When we did not see any light, we closed the breech, threw the safety, locked it up with a post-it on the gun to ask if it was jammed or hot (the gun belongs to the boss), and put a warning note on the safe. Was this a good safety protocol? We were safe the entire time around, but I'm asking for a more experienced point of view.

Although my friend knows how to operate bolt-actions, I don't (I'm more used to shotguns, be they semi-auto or breakers), so I followed my gut who said:"I don't want a fist-sized homemade piercing, let's play it safe." All this despite my friend falling for the trap of the experienced:"don't worry, I got this." He still thanked me for my paranoia, because apparently, on the range, you have to be paranoid to avoid mistakes.

Great thread to the both of you, and many thanks.

There's paranoid and properly paranoid. In this case you were being properly paranoid. My experience lies mostly in semi-auto rifles and pump-action shotguns. Mostly post-1960's firearms and so forth. I've shot bolt-actions before, but my knowledge is limited for them beyond squeezing the trigger and giggling at the boom. Askold seems to have covered your question pretty well already, though.

If there is a round in the chamber that isn't being extracted when you open the bolt then it's likely either a bad ejector or the round has swollen up. Either way, you ought to be able to see a shell in it. If you don't know how to remove the bolt, then you can shine a light down the muzzle and see if it lights up the breech. If it does, you're good to go, if not, you've got trouble. And, as askold said, there are a number of things to be careful about. The rifle might have been demilled and a plug stuck in the barrel. The last time it was fired it might have had a bad round that failed to exit and got stuck. There might just be some dirt down it which can be as bad as putting cement in the barrel considering the kinds of pressures a rifle can see on a regular basis.

See what happens when you don't remember to remove the bore sight laser from your rifle before you test fire it?



Now, if you want to, one way you can check to see if the barrel is clear is very simple: run a ramrod through it. They're cheap and can be picked up from about any gun store on the planet. Or, you can, as a last resort, straighten a coat hanger and run it down the barrel. Just wrap the end with electrical tape or something so you don't screw up the rifling. Just be careful when you're handling any firearm you're unsure of.

And somewhat off topic...

Also, please remember, firearms are designed to handle hellacious amounts of pressure, but they handle it in a certain way. A lot of people don't realize that gunpowder burns, it doesn't explode. Because it burns the pressure build-up and release is gradual. But, once in a great while, a round won't ignite. It'll detonate. And when that happens, well...





That's a .308 that detonated. There's really little advice that can be given with regards to this sort of thing beyond always make sure of your ammo. Make sure it has been stored properly and make sure there are no defects in the case, especially around the neck. And always wear eye and ear protection.
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"If the liberties of the American people are ever destroyed, they will fall by the hands of the clergy" ~ Marquis De Lafayette

'Till Next Time,
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