Author Topic: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington  (Read 73297 times)

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Offline Skybison

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #360 on: January 13, 2017, 05:22:44 am »
Man all this cultural marxism gives me deja vu. Lana, are you Dynamic Paragon 3.0?

Yeah I'm thinking this too.  Lana's posting about the same topics, in the same style, with the same phrases and getting into the same fights as Dynamic Paragon.

Look, Lana if you aren't Paragon I apologize.  Dynamic Dragon was a full of himself asshole who got banned for making sockpuppets but came back with a sockpuppet called Ultimate Paragon, where got even worse become devote gamergater and even defending childporn on 8chan because free speech before getting banned again.  He had a very similar posting style on a lot of the same topic as you.  If I've misread you and you are a different person I am sorry for the mistake but I hope you understand the concern over not wanting a childporn defender back.

Offline The_Queen

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #361 on: January 13, 2017, 08:01:42 pm »
So, after thinking over the Donald Trump pee story, I have decided that I have no ethical dilemmas in talking about it as though it is true. Now, disregard the fact that the golden shower portion was the least worrisome part of the dossier (there are 33 pages detailing ties between Trump and Putin). My main dilemma was that the entire report was unverified and could be nothing more than a 4chan hoax (though, Chris Steele going into hiding casts strong doubt on that). The reason, after considerable thought, that I have no problem saying Trump enjoys golden showers is because if the shoe were on the other foot, Trump would have no problem saying it about a political opponent: for example when Trump accused Hillary of murdering people, accused Obama of being born in Kenya, or accused Ted Cruz' father of killing Lee Harvey Oswald.

I mean, I don't know if this dossier is true, and that troubles me the most: I really don't think there is anything Trump could do that would make me say "no, he'd never do that," and that speaks volumes to his lack of character. However, even if completely bullshit, Trump has more than earned being the victim of a fake news smear.
Does anyone take Donald Trump seriously, anymore?

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #362 on: January 14, 2017, 10:23:04 pm »
Alright Lana, having read your article I am going to have to call bullshit on the Cultural Marxism thing.

a) Your article claims that it can be used for more than the conspiracy theory and talks about several decades old thingy which has never been talked about again.

b) When someone talks about it now they are talking about the conspiracy theory, this includes the website that you were defending. That the phrase once had a different meaning is a red herring. Example: If someone calls me a "faggoty barbarian cuck" would fairness demand that I consider that he he may be using the original meaning of "barbarian" which referred to people living north of Rome who did not speak latin (as I sadly do not) and ignore that he also used the words "faggoty" and "cuck" and was clearly insulting me? Context matters.

a) It's been largely drowned out in all the misuse, but people still do talk about Cultural Marxism in the original sense. For example, this book was published just last year.

b) That's not necessarily the case. There are people who use it to describe a particular flavor of left-wing authoritarianism, as my article says:

Quote
Sometimes, when people complain about “cultural Marxism”, their emphasis seems to be on something more specific. They are thinking, perhaps, of a left-wing variety of cultural authoritarianism: a tendency to criticize movies, video games, and other cultural products in a very harsh way that implies a need for government censorship. Short of that, it may at least imply the need for aggressive social policing and an environment of public shaming.

I wasn't really defending the article, it was a load of conspiratorial nonsense. I was just pointing out that there really is such a thing as Cultural Marxism, albeit something entirely different from what the article says. As for whether the article is necessarily reflective of the website's politics, that's not necessarily true. Pat Buchanan was a talking head on MSNBC for almost ten years, but they're pretty far from being paleocons.

Man all this cultural marxism gives me deja vu. Lana, are you Dynamic Paragon 3.0?

Yeah I'm thinking this too.  Lana's posting about the same topics, in the same style, with the same phrases and getting into the same fights as Dynamic Paragon.

Look, Lana if you aren't Paragon I apologize.  Dynamic Dragon was a full of himself asshole who got banned for making sockpuppets but came back with a sockpuppet called Ultimate Paragon, where got even worse become devote gamergater and even defending childporn on 8chan because free speech before getting banned again.  He had a very similar posting style on a lot of the same topic as you.  If I've misread you and you are a different person I am sorry for the mistake but I hope you understand the concern over not wanting a childporn defender back.

If he's as bad as you say he was, then I'm glad I'm not him. Just for your information, my typing isn't normally so clipped. I've just been busy, so I try to be efficient.

Or are you talking about something else?
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #363 on: January 15, 2017, 01:49:16 am »
a) It's been largely drowned out in all the misuse, but people still do talk about Cultural Marxism in the original sense. For example, this book was published just last year.

The book refers to a movement that existed in the sixties and seventies.

b) That's not necessarily the case. There are people who use it to describe a particular flavor of left-wing authoritarianism, as my article says:

The article that says this

Quote
Current left-wing activism can, indeed, display hyperbolic, philistine, and authoritarian tendencies, but these have little to do with any influence from Marx, Soviet totalitarianism, or the work of the Frankfurt School. They have more, I suspect, to do with tendencies toward moral and political purity in almost any movement that seeks social change.

Meaning the author does not say that modern "authoritarian" tendencies in left wing activism like, I dunno-political correctness gone mad or power + prejudice "isms", have anything to do with Marx or Marxism.

So yeah, OK. I'll grant you. "Cultural Marxism" has been used, to describe the application of Marxism to the social sciences, as your book says-primarily in the sixties and seventies. The term is commonly used today to promulgate the batshit insane notion of various progressive ideas being a Trojan Horse to bring about the destruction of the west by a super secret cabal of Marxists/Jews/Cthulhu/Insert The Blank.

It's a bit like the term "libertarian", you could point to the fact that the original use of the term or it's use by left leaning libertarians bares little resemblance to the way it's used today, but because of the way it is used today, on the internet in particular, it's broadly understood to be a term describe someone who thinks Ayn Rand was the greatest thing ever.

Back to the start of this brouhaha, I suggested you might be culturally conservative because you were citing a publication that suggests the left is the sole source of kafkatrapping and which penned an editorial suggesting that Cultural Marxism is bad in the "it's all a Trojan horse to undermine civilisation sense", not the "obscure application of Marxism to the social sciences" sense.

Quote
This was the purpose of the ideology of Cultural Marxism — to root out the fundamentals of Judeo-Christian civilization and the splendid Camelot of Freedom it had created in America from 1776 to 1913. What is horrifying is that it has been triumphant. Marx has not buried us in an economic sense as Khrushchev boasted he would; but Marx has buried us in a cultural sense as Antonio Gramsci and Georg Lukacs planned over 80 years ago. James Jaeger's film demonstrates this in lucid fashion that is at once fascinating and abhorrent.

That's not an "application of Marx to the social sciences", that's this.

« Last Edit: January 15, 2017, 03:58:15 am by Tolpuddle Martyr »

Offline Askold

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #364 on: January 15, 2017, 02:27:07 am »
And you expect us to believe that the Alt-Right may be referring to the several decades old political thingy when they say that the Cultural Marxists are trying to destroy western countries and flood them with Muslims? Because if that's not what you are saying then I don't get how it is relevant to this discussion.

EDIT: HAHA!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/27/alt-right-donald-trump-white-supremacy-backlash

Quote

“In January Trump will start governing and will have to make compromises. Even small ones will trigger squabbles between the ‘alt-right’. ‘Trump betrayed us.’ ‘No, you’re betraying us for saying Trump betrayed us.’ And so on. The alt-right’s appearance of influence will diminish more and more as they start to fight amongst themselves.”

In an email interview Peter Brimelow, founder of the webzine Vdare.com, which alleges Mexican plots to remake the US, said Trump’s failure to deliver “important bones” could trigger a backlash. “I think the right of the right is absolutely prepared to revolt. It’s what they do.”

There is, however, a catch: Weber, Taylor and Brimelow – all classified as “extremists” by the Southern Poverty Law Center – said Trump’s victory energised the far-right and that the movement can grow with or without White House help.

Basically, the Alt-right are a mishmash of racists, nazis and libertards and they are going to tear each other apart no matter what but the question is will they also do other damage and can some of them rise up to be politically relevant in the next elections.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2017, 11:20:48 am by Askold »
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
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Online Id82

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #365 on: January 15, 2017, 12:07:51 pm »
I think one side fuels the other side. George w bush made way for the rise of Obama. Fears of Obama created the tea party and then the alt right. 4 to 8 years of Trump, deregulation, mass privatization, corporate abuse and a rising interest in Bernie sanders might fuel a socialist movement. Trump voters like Obama voters will most likely increasingly feel disenfranchised as they feel their candidate didn't really help them much and most likely won't turn out to vote next time. It happens time and time again.

Offline Askold

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #366 on: January 16, 2017, 12:32:38 am »
http://www.rawstory.com/2017/01/conn-republican-arrested-for-grabbing-womans-genitals-his-lawyer-says-it-was-a-playful-gesture/

a) Yet more evidence that people are starting to think that they can all act like Trump now with no repercussions.

b) It's not really "your word against mine" if you do it on camera and using the defense "he would never do such a thing" is likewise kinda futile against video evidence.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #367 on: January 16, 2017, 01:16:16 am »
And his lawyer says outright that the whole thing happened in front of witnesses, which is why it can't be sexual assault! Von Keyserling would never sexually assault someone in front of witnesses!
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It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

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Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #368 on: January 16, 2017, 06:31:05 am »
And his lawyer says outright that the whole thing happened in front of witnesses, which is why it can't be sexual assault! Von Keyserling would never sexually assault someone in front of witnesses!
Reminds me of something...

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #369 on: January 16, 2017, 01:26:34 pm »
And you expect us to believe that the Alt-Right may be referring to the several decades old political thingy when they say that the Cultural Marxists are trying to destroy western countries and flood them with Muslims? Because if that's not what you are saying then I don't get how it is relevant to this discussion.

Hell no! I was saying that people can (mis)use the term "Cultural Marxism" without being loony Jew-haters. Maybe they're academics talking about the history of sociology, or maybe they're geeks angry at the aggressive, heavy-handed "criticism" of their hobbies. Either way, that doesn't make them alt-right deplorables.

I think one side fuels the other side. George w bush made way for the rise of Obama. Fears of Obama created the tea party and then the alt right. 4 to 8 years of Trump, deregulation, mass privatization, corporate abuse and a rising interest in Bernie sanders might fuel a socialist movement. Trump voters like Obama voters will most likely increasingly feel disenfranchised as they feel their candidate didn't really help them much and most likely won't turn out to vote next time. It happens time and time again.

That's one reason I'm against political correctness, because I'm worried about the backlash. Political correctness helped get Trump into the Oval Office. Who knows what damage the PC crowd's doubling down might cause?

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/01/conn-republican-arrested-for-grabbing-womans-genitals-his-lawyer-says-it-was-a-playful-gesture/

a) Yet more evidence that people are starting to think that they can all act like Trump now with no repercussions.

b) It's not really "your word against mine" if you do it on camera and using the defense "he would never do such a thing" is likewise kinda futile against video evidence.

What a revolting excuse for a human being. And if he thinks anybody will buy this, he's delusional.
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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #370 on: January 16, 2017, 01:49:11 pm »
How do you define "the PC crowd" "doubling down" in this context? Do you, like others seem to, refer to people calling supporters of a racist racist for supporting a racist, or is it something else? For that matter, how do you define "political correctness" in the particular context of it aiding Trump's presidency?
« Last Edit: January 16, 2017, 01:51:52 pm by Even Then »

Offline The_Queen

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #371 on: January 16, 2017, 01:49:58 pm »
I'd really appreciate it if a certain someone could just say what they means instead of using abstract boogeymen like "political correctness"

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Does anyone take Donald Trump seriously, anymore?

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #372 on: January 16, 2017, 02:01:11 pm »
http://www.rawstory.com/2017/01/conn-republican-arrested-for-grabbing-womans-genitals-his-lawyer-says-it-was-a-playful-gesture/

a) Yet more evidence that people are starting to think that they can all act like Trump now with no repercussions.

b) It's not really "your word against mine" if you do it on camera and using the defense "he would never do such a thing" is likewise kinda futile against video evidence.

What a revolting excuse for a human being. And if he thinks anybody will buy this, he's delusional.

If anyone does, she should playfully grab his nuts and playfully twist them.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #373 on: January 16, 2017, 05:06:21 pm »
Merkal and Hollande aren't betting on Trump helping them or the EU.

Quote
We Europeans have our fate in our own hands,” the German chancellor said after the publication of the US president-elect’s interviews with the Times and German tabloid Bild. “He has presented his positions once more. They have been known for a while. My positions are also known.”


Translation, we have Russian puppets on both sides of our borders now. If Germany and France go for ultra nationalist governments I've no doubt Putin will start moving his sphere of influence aggressively westwards.

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #374 on: January 16, 2017, 05:28:08 pm »
How do you define "the PC crowd" "doubling down" in this context? Do you, like others seem to, refer to people calling supporters of a racist racist for supporting a racist, or is it something else? For that matter, how do you define "political correctness" in the particular context of it aiding Trump's presidency?

Before I say anything else, I'd like to point out that saying Trump's supporters are racist is unfair. Voters don't magically take on their candidate's character flaws. Even the Guardian admitted that saying Trump supporters are all racist is dangerously reductionist.

When I talk about doubling down, I talk about them engaging in the same rhetoric that turned so many people to Trump. Do you know how many articles and talking heads blame whites, or men, or white men for Trump's election? Way too many. Here are just a few examples:

http://www.vox.com/first-person/2016/11/14/13626404/trump-election-protest

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/us-politics/the-real-reason-donald-trump-got-elected-we-have-a-white-extremism-problem/article32817625/

http://www.salon.com/2016/11/17/dear-white-people-an-open-letter-to-donald-trumps-supporters-on-race/

http://fusion.net/story/368198/white-people-elected-trump/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/spare-me-the-euphemisms-white-people-made-trump-president/2016/11/11/264ce14e-a787-11e6-8042-f4d111c862d1_story.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dear-white-women-we-messed-this-up-election-2016_us_582341c9e4b0aac62488970e

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/11/09/white_women_sold_out_the_sisterhood_and_the_world_by_voting_for_trump.html

Now for your second question. I'm talking about people emphasizing "white privilege" and "male privilege" at a time when income inequality is at its worst in decades. I'm talking about student radicals trying to get "dead white men" removed from their classes. I'm talking about SJWs bullying people for the stupidest of reasons. I'm talking about pearl-clutching nitwits trying to play the role of the fiction police. To sum up, I'm talking about a disturbing undercurrent in the American Left in recent years, one that has resulted in the Democratic Party falling to its lowest point since Reconstruction. What I'm saying is that when you find yourself in a hole, it may be a good idea to stop digging.

Merkal and Hollande aren't betting on Trump helping them or the EU.

Quote
We Europeans have our fate in our own hands,” the German chancellor said after the publication of the US president-elect’s interviews with the Times and German tabloid Bild. “He has presented his positions once more. They have been known for a while. My positions are also known.”


Translation, we have Russian puppets on both sides of our borders now. If Germany and France go for ultra nationalist governments I've no doubt Putin will start moving his sphere of influence aggressively westwards.

Don't get me started on Putin. If he died tomorrow, you could probably guess what I'd be singing.
Beware those who hate the rich more than they love the poor.