FSTDT Forums

General Category => Suggestion Box => Topic started by: Hades on August 08, 2012, 01:47:16 pm

Title: Smites
Post by: Hades on August 08, 2012, 01:47:16 pm
Due to the recent smite-related issues, I think we should take a poll to see how we all really feel about this system.

I know we voted on this in the beginning, but we all pretty much agreed to have the system as long as it doesn't get abused. Lo and behold, it's being abused.

I left in the option to change your vote, because I'm not sure if it's possible to have only positive smites. So if it isn't, you can change your vote accordingly.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist on August 08, 2012, 01:52:45 pm
Exalts-only is a good idea.

If that isn't possible and smiting is just going to cause drama, we should get rid of it altogether.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: Sleepy on August 08, 2012, 03:20:47 pm
I think there'll still be drama over positive numbers, and it's intimidating for newbies. I say we get rid of it altogether.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: Søren on August 08, 2012, 04:49:45 pm
I say kill it. Makes me feel self conscious about my board status :p
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: Smurfette Principle on August 08, 2012, 05:16:41 pm
I think there'll still be drama over positive numbers

You can't actively be mean to someone, though. You can refuse to give them an exalt, but it doesn't have the same impact as being deliberately negative. I don't think it would cause nearly as much drama.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: Fpqxz on August 08, 2012, 05:49:25 pm
We could have a system in which good posts are "thanked", either by name or anonymously.

Someone has been downvoting me a lot lately, for no good reason.  I don't know for sure who it is, though I have my suspicions.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: Sleepy on August 08, 2012, 06:50:47 pm
I think there'll still be drama over positive numbers

You can't actively be mean to someone, though. You can refuse to give them an exalt, but it doesn't have the same impact as being deliberately negative. I don't think it would cause nearly as much drama.

There wouldn't be as much drama over positives as there is over negatives, yes, but I think there's still the potential for folks to get upset over others having ridiculously inflated numbers. That and it's fucking stupid to have arbitrary numbers on a forum.

I can't speak for all newbies, but if I were new to the board, it'd be something that would make me feel iffy about joining and becoming part of the community. I'd feel like an outsider, more than usual.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: VirtualStranger on August 08, 2012, 07:36:51 pm
Having the positive exalts may not cause too much immediate harm, but it doesn't add anything important or useful and does nothing to improve the quality of the forum.

Give me one positive effect that an exalt system will have on the forum as a whole. What does it add to the forum experience that justifies keeping it? And how does that outweigh the potential harm that could come from it?

I would compare it to your appendix. It has no useful function and has a significant chance of becoming infected, so you'd be better off not having it in the first place.


An exalt system would essentially be an "I am approximately this popular among other forum members" meter, and honestly, who gives a fuck?
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: Cataclysm on August 09, 2012, 02:25:09 am
I said this in the previous forum.

We should name them "WTF" and "Meh"
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: Vypernight on August 09, 2012, 05:45:13 am
Honestly, I don't care either way.  I don't smite people anyway.  If I disagree I disagree.  I still Exalt though, even though we no longer have a Sexy Images thread.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: Art Vandelay on August 09, 2012, 06:04:01 am
The way I see it, if there's drama centred around smites, the smites aren't the problem. They're merely a symptom of the fact that we've a number of passive-agressive dumbfucks in our midst. Getting rid of smites will do all of jack shit to address the real issue at hand.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: QueenofHearts on August 09, 2012, 09:18:54 am
The way I see it, if there's drama centred around smites, the smites aren't the problem. They're merely a symptom of the fact that we've a number of passive-agressive dumbfucks in our midst. Getting rid of smites will do all of jack shit to address the real issue at hand.

I have to agree. I enjoy the applauds/smites, but they're not the problem, they're a tool. The ideal purpose of such is to give newbies some indication of who the well thought out posters are (Sandman) and who the trouble makers are. Maybe that was not the intention here, but I was active at another site that had them before joining and that was their intent. I think that if they lead a long time poster to post less, and even leave, then the people who smote said person should be taken care of because IMHO, that amounts to bullying and I'd like to think that this board is better than that.

Though, I think something should change. Maybe it should be made that smites/applauds are no longer anonymous (such as at the site I mentioned earlier). This way, if a poster has -2000, the poster as well as the board can see the main culprits responsible. The site I mentioned earlier also had a reason for smite/applauds, which some people here have shown interest in knowing why they were applauded/smote. This also reduces smites given to solely those who deserve it (in the poster's opinion) or given as a joke (such as I gave to Maybenever in the F&B thread, a few others gave me, or 95+ percent of Mlle's Antichrist's). This would also give various members who have been smote a chance to correct an offensive action if the choose to. However, I can understand that people may prefer to stay anonymous or this may cause further drama. If its not made public, then I think its best to be gotten rid of since smites&applauds have been and may be abused in the future.

In case anyone is interested, the site is Susans. Its a transgender support website.

ETA (after Art's post but not towards it): Though I will say this, I think that if we end up losing such a system because of a few posters, it really doesn't speak well of the board. FSTDT is supposed to be a site that mocks irrationality and stupidity and we hardly have the moral high ground when there are members who are too immature so as to spoil us having such a +/- system. Just my two cents on the whole thing. Also, I'm indifferent as to whether or not we keep it.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: Art Vandelay on August 09, 2012, 09:35:56 am
Though, I think something should change. Maybe it should be made that smites/applauds are no longer anonymous (such as at the site I mentioned earlier). This way, if a poster has -2000, the poster as well as the board can see the main culprits responsible. The site I mentioned earlier also had a reason for smite/applauds, which some people here have shown interest in knowing why they were applauded/smote.
Though if that's not possible (I think Simple Machines simply doesn't allow for exalts/smites to be traced), then another system I quite like is what they have on the GOG.com forums. Basically, you don't smite/exalt a person, you exalt/smite a specific post. If that post gets enough of either (something like ten more of one than the other), then the post is marked as "high/low rated" and the person's exalt/smite counter goes up or down by one. It ensures that not only is it difficult for just one or two people to abuse, but also indicates what specifically was said that the general community [dis]approves of.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: RavynousHunter on August 09, 2012, 03:13:45 pm
The thing is, we got rid of it on ProBoards because it was abused.  It stayed that way and never came back until we moved here, where people got it in their heads that it would be a good idea to have it here.  That's something I don't get, on one board it was almost unceremoniously tossed out, and on another, it was clamored for by many of the folks who'd been around when the system had been killed off the first time.

We shouldn't have had it to begin with, because its just another arbitrary form of e-cock, and another source of potential bullshit.  We lived just fine without it once, I'm sure we can all do it again, its not that big of a deal.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: Smurfette Principle on August 09, 2012, 04:15:58 pm
The way I see it, if there's drama centred around smites, the smites aren't the problem. They're merely a symptom of the fact that we've a number of passive-agressive dumbfucks in our midst. Getting rid of smites will do all of jack shit to address the real issue at hand.

Imma marry this post and have its babies. The smites are like coughing, and getting rid of it is just like taking cough syrup. Except you still have bronchitis after you take the cough syrup, it's just not as obvious.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: Radiation on August 09, 2012, 04:31:29 pm
Quite honestly, I feel that the exalt/smite system is another form of a popularity contest with the most well loved and known posters having a higher counter than those that are "less popular" and like others have said it seems to be a bit egotistical and narcissistic in general.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist on August 09, 2012, 04:59:21 pm
The way I see it, if there's drama centred around smites, the smites aren't the problem. They're merely a symptom of the fact that we've a number of passive-agressive dumbfucks in our midst. Getting rid of smites will do all of jack shit to address the real issue at hand.

Imma marry this post and have its babies. The smites are like coughing, and getting rid of it is just like taking cough syrup. Except you still have bronchitis after you take the cough syrup, it's just not as obvious.

We're a public forum open to anyone who has a computer. Unless you guys can find a cure for human nature, I think we're going to have to go with the symptom-managing approach here.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: Hades on August 09, 2012, 05:19:32 pm
The way I see it, if there's drama centred around smites, the smites aren't the problem. They're merely a symptom of the fact that we've a number of passive-agressive dumbfucks in our midst. Getting rid of smites will do all of jack shit to address the real issue at hand.

Imma marry this post and have its babies. The smites are like coughing, and getting rid of it is just like taking cough syrup. Except you still have bronchitis after you take the cough syrup, it's just not as obvious.

We're a public forum open to anyone who has a computer. Unless you guys can find a cure for human nature, I think we're going to have to go with the symptom-managing approach here.

I agree with Antéchrist. I see smites as a stick. Taking the stick away from the jerk who is using it will leave them having to be more direct and open with their passive-aggressiveness, or sit on it. If they choose to be open about it, it can be dealt with.

You can't stop people from being assholes, but you can take away their option to do so anonymously.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: Distind on August 09, 2012, 09:54:37 pm
The thing is, we got rid of it on ProBoards because it was abused.  It stayed that way and never came back until we moved here, where people got it in their heads that it would be a good idea to have it here.  That's something I don't get, on one board it was almost unceremoniously tossed out, and on another, it was clamored for by many of the folks who'd been around when the system had been killed off the first time.

We shouldn't have had it to begin with, because its just another arbitrary form of e-cock, and another source of potential bullshit.  We lived just fine without it once, I'm sure we can all do it again, its not that big of a deal.
Which is all largely why it's fucks given rather than anything else, to give it a less serious tone than smites or what have you.

That said, I've stopped trying to anticipate what people around here want a while ago, I've found it makes things smoother.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: Yla on August 10, 2012, 05:27:41 am
That said, I've stopped trying to anticipate what people around here want a while ago, I've found it makes things smoother.
Sigged. SO Sigged. I dislike sigging quotes, but this statement is so full of win I need to sig this.

Re Fuck system: I won't miss it. And I agree with Sleepy that a exalt-only wouldn't improve things much. I think it even would worsen the situation.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: nickiknack on August 10, 2012, 12:06:09 pm
Quite honestly, I feel that the exalt/smite system is another form of a popularity contest with the most well loved and known posters having a higher counter than those that are "less popular" and like others have said it seems to be a bit egotistical and narcissistic in general.

*Looks at her exalt number*
Holy Shit, I'm Popular....I feel so loved.
That being said, it really doesn't bother me what we decide to do, I just go with the flow.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: Osama bin Bambi on August 11, 2012, 03:57:29 am
I don't care if the system goes or stays. Although I think removing Fuck Nos might be an option. I have seen forums where users can "thank" posts. For instance, if users X, Y, and Z were to thank my post, then there would be a little box at the bottom that says, "This post was thanked by X, Y, and Z." That way it cuts down on space-wasting "This!" comments while also preventing people from passive-aggressively lashing back through the disguise of anonymity.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: m52nickerson on August 11, 2012, 09:13:47 am
If some people have a problem with it and the other side really does not care about it all that much I say get ride of it.

Personally it really does not matter to me.  The more negatives I get the more it feels like I'm doing my job around here.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: Undecided on August 14, 2012, 12:38:06 am
Keep the positive ones, if at all. There are times when somebody posts a really inspired comment, but there isn't really any follow up to be had. I don't really regret those. On the other hand, there have been times when somebody had written some nonsense that seemed to merit a smite, but then I would find the sense in the post and become ashamed of having smit them. I'd prefer not to have the temptation.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: Mechtaur on August 14, 2012, 03:19:37 am
I'm gonna join the "Ditch the whole thing" side. The +/- system is just a giant dick swinging/slapping contest.

As someone else said, if people are abusing it to be passive-aggressive, taking it away will stop the drama caused by their behavior and force them to fuck off or come out and play with everyone.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: Fpqxz on August 14, 2012, 10:35:42 pm
I have seen forums where users can "thank" posts. For instance, if users X, Y, and Z were to thank my post, then there would be a little box at the bottom that says, "This post was thanked by X, Y, and Z." That way it cuts down on space-wasting "This!" comments while also preventing people from passive-aggressively lashing back through the disguise of anonymity.

(http://mahler.ca/files/b/second%20futurama.jpg)
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: Sleepy on August 15, 2012, 12:02:18 pm
If some people have a problem with it and the other side really does not care about it all that much I say get ride of it.

Considering how close the vote is, I have to agree with this.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: Undecided on August 16, 2012, 01:30:26 am
Changed my vote to getting rid of the whole system. Exalts and smites give undue weight to users who are not willing to express their most basal opinions using language or their own identity. When somebody has incurred either approval or wrath, they have a right to know why.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: Sleepy on August 26, 2012, 01:47:57 pm
With the current poll, shall we do away with the system?
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: Smurfette Principle on August 26, 2012, 05:07:49 pm
I don't know, the gap between keep it positive and trash the whole thing is pretty small. I like the idea of "thanking" posts for reasons mentioned above.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: Sleepy on August 27, 2012, 11:20:08 am
What's the solution, then? Wait for more votes?

Also, mods, is it actually possible to have only Exalts on here?
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: Distind on August 27, 2012, 12:31:06 pm
Also, mods, is it actually possible to have only Exalts on here?
For the current system, nope.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: ironbite on August 27, 2012, 12:33:43 pm
Bullshit.  On another forum that used Simple Machines, they made it so you could only give "street cred" or positive karma.

Ironbite-you can do it here as well.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: Distind on August 27, 2012, 01:41:07 pm
Bullshit.  On another forum that used Simple Machines, they made it so you could only give "street cred" or positive karma.

Ironbite-you can do it here as well.
I said the current system, we'd have to either dig up a module for this or write one to be able to do it.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: clockworkgirl21 on August 31, 2012, 01:50:04 am
I'm a big late to the party, but has smites really caused drama? I must have missed it. I don't really pay attention to them, since I've noticed some of our oldest and most respected members have more negative votes than positive, so it doesn't really mean anything.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: ironbite on August 31, 2012, 05:53:12 pm
Cait came back and her fuck nos skyrocketed into the 200s.

Ironbite-you tell me if they didn't cause drama.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: Dantes Virgil on September 01, 2012, 11:20:35 am
On several occasions I've watched my smites climb after just posting something sympathetic to someone having a bad time.  I can't imagine it was done for anything other than spite -- who really dislikes simple expressions of care or encouragement?

In some cases, smites seem to be well deserved.  In other cases, it appears to be a passive aggressive way for a few people to try to indicate to someone "I don't like you."  If the exalt/smite system isn't working like it was intended to, maybe it's time to remove it.  As others have pointed out here and elsewhere, this was an issue on a previous board and we got rid of it happily then and only a few people complained.  After we removed the system, some posters would literally write "exalt for you" or something when they posted to indicate they liked or didn't like the post, which worked out well if you felt you wanted to tell someone about it.  Would removing the smites get rid of the root of passive aggressive behavior?  Of course not.  But, it does mean that if someone has a problem with someone else and they want to express it, they now have to actually write about it instead of hiding behind a smite. 

In the long run, it only matters as much as you personally care about it.  Abuse of the smite system is certainly not going to keep me from expressing my opinion on this board just because a few people have issues.
Title: Re: Smites
Post by: RavynousHunter on September 01, 2012, 04:26:21 pm
On several occasions I've watched my smites climb after just posting something sympathetic to someone having a bad time.  I can't imagine it was done for anything other than spite -- who really dislikes simple expressions of care or encouragement?

In some cases, smites seem to be well deserved.  In other cases, it appears to be a passive aggressive way for a few people to try to indicate to someone "I don't like you."  If the exalt/smite system isn't working like it was intended to, maybe it's time to remove it.  As others have pointed out here and elsewhere, this was an issue on a previous board and we got rid of it happily then and only a few people complained.  After we removed the system, some posters would literally write "exalt for you" or something when they posted to indicate they liked or didn't like the post, which worked out well if you felt you wanted to tell someone about it.  Would removing the smites get rid of the root of passive aggressive behavior?  Of course not.  But, it does mean that if someone has a problem with someone else and they want to express it, they now have to actually write about it instead of hiding behind a smite. 

In the long run, it only matters as much as you personally care about it.  Abuse of the smite system is certainly not going to keep me from expressing my opinion on this board just because a few people have issues.

Exactly, same with me.  Honestly, yeah, there are people here I don't like, but would I hide behind smites?  Eeh, not my way.  I prefer to just ignore 'em.

I will say that it still baffles me as to fucking why so many people clamored to bring the system back when they were around for its demise on ProBoards.  Just...what the fuck?  How could you not see this coming?  It happened before, it happened again.  I seriously hope, should we (for whatever reason) move boards again, that we keep this fucking system off it, and that everyone learns the bloody lesson, and learns the damned pattern that this system can and will be abused, its only a matter of time.

The "karma" system on forums is nothing more than a popularity pissing contest.  I've seen it far too many times to be deluding myself otherwise, hell, on the NoX forum, they literally fucking call it "E-Cock."  That's all it ever is, that's all it ever has been, and that's all it ever will be.  We don't need it, it'll make oversensitive people whine, so just...get rid of it.  Again.  This time, let's make sure that sticks, mm'kay?