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Rubbish => Preaching and Worship => Topic started by: Jacob Harrison on May 29, 2018, 09:11:58 am

Title: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on May 29, 2018, 09:11:58 am
I am making a post on this because of the evil fake Christians that say that God hates fags. No God loves homosexuals as he loves all decent human beings. He just hates homosexuality and sodomy(ass fucking) because it goes against the biological laws of nature that he designed through evolution. Our sexual hormones are our signals that are telling us to breed. Having attraction to the same sex goes against the laws of nature because it does not produce offspring. He also hates same sex marriage because it goes against what the purpose of marriage is which is procreation. I will now explain what the Bible says about homosexuality and what the Bible forbids.

First I will address the case of Sodom and Gomorrah. Many think that God had the city destroyed because they engaged in homosexual behavior. That is not true. They were punished for various sins, a major one being attempted rape of two angels.

Next I will address what Leviticus 20:13 says about what should be done to sodomites. It is very harsh but it is from the Old Testament and only applied to the context of the time. It calls for the death penalty for homosexuals but that is because the ancient Israelites lived in a harsh desert environment with a lack of good sanitation. AIDS could easily spread in that environment so putting them to death was done to save the Israelites from getting infected.

Now I will address what the New Testament says about homosexual sex. In Romans 1:26 it clearly condemns homosexual sex. And in 1 Corinthians 6:9 the Apostle Paul says that.

“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

The term “abusers of themselves with mankind” is the translation in the King James Bible of the Greek word arsenokoitai which means men having sex with men.

So the Bible does condemn homosexual sex, but as I said, that DOES NOT mean that God hates fags or condemns homosexuals to hell. God hates homosexuality but he does not condemn homosexuals as long as they do not engage in homosexual sex. However Homosexuals who engage in homosexual sex can be saved as long as they confess their sins to a priest after they do so. Therefore Milo can still go to heaven.


Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Art Vandelay on May 29, 2018, 10:00:31 am
(https://i.imgflip.com/whqb3.jpg)
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on May 29, 2018, 10:32:26 am
He just hates...(ass fucking)

What if the ass is in this?

(https://www.generalpants.com.au/products/images/10000439/1000043912_040_Zoom_2-Back.jpg)

It's ok, we can wait until you're done!
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on May 29, 2018, 10:55:11 am
He just hates...(ass fucking)

What if the ass is in this?

(https://www.generalpants.com.au/products/images/10000439/1000043912_040_Zoom_2-Back.jpg)

It's ok, we can wait until you're done!

Well I am attracted to her ass in jeans but I would find fucking her naked ass disgusting.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Skybison on May 29, 2018, 01:01:12 pm
Against the laws of Nature huh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYdcvRe7ox8

Oops guess not.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on May 29, 2018, 02:44:38 pm
Against the laws of Nature huh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYdcvRe7ox8

Oops guess not.

Yes that documentary proves that there are homosexual animals, but that does not change the fact that homosexuality is a biological defect in both humans and animals because any evolutionary biologist can tell you that the biological evolutionary purpose of sexual hormones in animals is for them to mate and produce offspring. There is no evidence of a gay gene that makes people born gay. It seems like circumstances can make someone gay such as influence by other homosexuals, or other factors.

Nevertheless humans are sentient so they have the capacity to choose how they behave sexually. There are many homosexuals who have been capable of having heterosexual sex with their wives producing children. A good example would be King James. Hardcore homosexuals who are incapable of heterosexual sex can still abstain from having sexual relations. Or as I said, they can confess their sins to a priest.

So in Christianity, homosexuals can confess their sins to priests and be forgiven. In Islam on the other hand, homosexuals get put to death in Muslim countries and in Orlando, over 50 gays were killed by a Muslim in a brutal terrorist attack. Which means that us Conservatives are far better friends of homosexuals than the left because the left supports Muslim immigration and we know how Muslims treat homosexuals.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: dpareja on May 29, 2018, 04:21:01 pm
You do realize that there are perfectly good evolutionary reasons for homosexuality, right?
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on May 29, 2018, 04:23:11 pm
You do realize that there are perfectly good evolutionary reasons for homosexuality, right?

Examples?
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Sigmaleph on May 29, 2018, 04:46:30 pm
Quote
Our sexual hormones are our signals that are telling us to breed. Having attraction to the same sex goes against the laws of nature because it does not produce offspring.

Setting aside that your understanding of biology is somewhere between ridiculously oversimplified and just patently wrong, and yet you try to derive ethics from it....

Didn't you say you wanted to chemically castrate yourself, Jacob? How do you fit that within your biologically deterministic/divinely mandated sexual ethics?
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: dpareja on May 29, 2018, 04:47:12 pm
You do realize that there are perfectly good evolutionary reasons for homosexuality, right?

Examples?

They add to the workforce without reproducing.

What happens (I'd have to find a citation on this, I admit) is that women have a tendency to release more of a certain hormone during pregnancy as they have more sons, and there is a correlation between homosexual tendencies and exposure to that hormone, and this would have been selected for because of the above reason: homosexuals add to the workforce but do not contribute to population growth.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on May 29, 2018, 04:52:36 pm
You do realize that there are perfectly good evolutionary reasons for homosexuality, right?

Examples?

They add to the workforce without reproducing.

What happens (I'd have to find a citation on this, I admit) is that women have a tendency to release more of a certain hormone during pregnancy as they have more sons, and there is a correlation between homosexual tendencies and exposure to that hormone, and this would have been selected for because of the above reason: homosexuals add to the workforce but do not contribute to population growth.

That is the problem. They do not contribute to population growth.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: dpareja on May 29, 2018, 04:56:42 pm
You do realize that there are perfectly good evolutionary reasons for homosexuality, right?

Examples?

They add to the workforce without reproducing.

What happens (I'd have to find a citation on this, I admit) is that women have a tendency to release more of a certain hormone during pregnancy as they have more sons, and there is a correlation between homosexual tendencies and exposure to that hormone, and this would have been selected for because of the above reason: homosexuals add to the workforce but do not contribute to population growth.

That is the problem. They do not contribute to population growth.

Which is a beneficial trait when a population threatens to become larger than its available resources can sustainably support.

Hence the populations in which the women have this tendency to bear homosexual children when they have borne many children were more likely to survive than the ones where the women did not.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on May 29, 2018, 05:02:08 pm
Quote
Our sexual hormones are our signals that are telling us to breed. Having attraction to the same sex goes against the laws of nature because it does not produce offspring.

Setting aside that your understanding of biology is somewhere between ridiculously oversimplified and just patently wrong, and yet you try to derive ethics from it....

Didn't you say you wanted to chemically castrate yourself, Jacob? How do you fit that within your biologically deterministic/divinely mandated sexual ethics?

How is it between oversimplified and patently wrong? The reason why animals have sexual hormones is for reproduction. Otherwise they would reproduce asexually creating clones of themselves.

As for chemical castration, while I would ideally like to reproduce sexually, my sexual hormones never matured enough to be able to do so, given my jean fetish. So since I most likely won’t be able to produce children, then my sexual hormones are unnecessary.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on May 29, 2018, 05:09:02 pm
You do realize that there are perfectly good evolutionary reasons for homosexuality, right?

Examples?

They add to the workforce without reproducing.

What happens (I'd have to find a citation on this, I admit) is that women have a tendency to release more of a certain hormone during pregnancy as they have more sons, and there is a correlation between homosexual tendencies and exposure to that hormone, and this would have been selected for because of the above reason: homosexuals add to the workforce but do not contribute to population growth.

That is the problem. They do not contribute to population growth.

Which is a beneficial trait when a population threatens to become larger than its available resources can sustainably support.

Hence the populations in which the women have this tendency to bear homosexual children when they have borne many children were more likely to survive than the ones where the women did not.

But in America the problem is not the population of Americans becoming larger, it is the population becoming smaller. There will not be enough Americans in the workforce and the Democrats and Rinos will use that as a justification for more open borders which would cause increase in crime, and American’s losing their jobs and adaquate wages as the immigrants will work for cheaper labor. With continued open borders, America will lose it’s culture as people from other cultures will displace the population of Americans and America would no longer be America.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Sigmaleph on May 29, 2018, 05:38:01 pm
How is it between oversimplified and patently wrong? The reason why animals have sexual hormones is for reproduction. Otherwise they would reproduce asexually creating clones of themselves.

You think biology has objective purposes and you are under the impression that sex hormones are just a thing telling you to have sex more. That's just from one sentence.

Quote
As for chemical castration, while I would ideally like to reproduce sexually, my sexual hormones never matured enough to be able to do so, given my jean fetish. So since I most likely won’t be able to produce children, then my sexual hormones are unnecessary.

"my sexual hormones never matured enough to be able to do so"

You have no idea how fetishes, hormones, evolution, and for all I know reproduction work. Probably should stop trying to derive ethics from it.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on May 29, 2018, 05:45:32 pm
Hey Jake, you do know that denim isn't animal and won't reproduce a denim homunculus no matter how many times you fap on it? Citation, the Laws of Nature.

Also, I always figure the ones who protest the loudest about homosexuality and the laws of nature doth protest too much.

Here, let Matt Smith help you out!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwxwUYYWQAQl3AL.jpg)
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on May 29, 2018, 06:00:30 pm
How is it between oversimplified and patently wrong? The reason why animals have sexual hormones is for reproduction. Otherwise they would reproduce asexually creating clones of themselves.

You think biology has objective purposes and you are under the impression that sex hormones are just a thing telling you to have sex more. That's just from one sentence.

Quote
As for chemical castration, while I would ideally like to reproduce sexually, my sexual hormones never matured enough to be able to do so, given my jean fetish. So since I most likely won’t be able to produce children, then my sexual hormones are unnecessary.

"my sexual hormones never matured enough to be able to do so"

You have no idea how fetishes, hormones, evolution, and for all I know reproduction work. Probably should stop trying to derive ethics from it.

I know that there are evolutionary reasons why animals have certain traits and instincts. Every trait and instinct has an evolutionary purpose. Animals get horny during mating season.

And if you have an idea on how fetishes work, I would like to know, so I could treat my jean fetish so that it does not get in the way of normal sex.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Sigmaleph on May 29, 2018, 07:13:59 pm
Every trait and instinct has an evolutionary purpose.

Ah, so does homosexuality have an evolutionary purpose?

Quote
And if you have an idea on how fetishes work, I would like to know, so I could treat my jean fetish so that it does not get in the way of normal sex.

Getting rid of fetishes is generally infeasible. Integrate them with your sex life or figure out something else that turns you on. Definitely don't go around telling people your sexual hormones didn't mature.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on May 29, 2018, 07:42:34 pm
Every trait and instinct has an evolutionary purpose.

Ah, so does homosexuality have an evolutionary purpose?

Quote
And if you have an idea on how fetishes work, I would like to know, so I could treat my jean fetish so that it does not get in the way of normal sex.

Getting rid of fetishes is generally infeasible. Integrate them with your sex life or figure out something else that turns you on. Definitely don't go around telling people your sexual hormones didn't mature.

Every natural trait and instinct has an evolutionary purpose. In evolution there are also disorders and mutations. Homosexuality is a disorder because it prevents an organism from reproducing.

I know that getting rid of fetishes is impossible, but I heard about people with fetishes who were still able to have children, indicating that they had both the fetish, and were able to have normal sex. It seems like while getting rid of fetishes is impossible, but treating them so that you can have normal sex is. It is a major problem that I am so sexually attracted to a woman in jeans that I fail to be attracted to her naked body.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: dpareja on May 29, 2018, 07:59:11 pm
Homosexuals can lay back and think of England, y'know, and these days could use a sperm bank... but more importantly, in the environment in which we evolved, homosexuality (or, rather, the tendency to produce homosexual children when a mother has many children) was a beneficial trait and thus selected for.

And anyway, evolution doesn't give a shit about your nationalism and ethnocentrism.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Eiki-mun on May 29, 2018, 08:19:57 pm
But in America the problem is not the population of Americans becoming larger, it is the population becoming smaller. There will not be enough Americans in the workforce and the Democrats and Rinos will use that as a justification for more open borders which would cause increase in crime, and American’s losing their jobs and adaquate wages as the immigrants will work for cheaper labor. With continued open borders, America will lose it’s culture as people from other cultures will displace the population of Americans and America would no longer be America.

America doesn't have a culture. At least not a unique culture that's distinctly "American", as you seem to imply. We're a nation of immigrants, and we've blended a lot of immigrant cultures together - French culture, German culture, English culture (a lot of those two), Italian culture, some Russian and Chinese culture, a dollop or two of Japanese and Thai and Vietnamese culture, a good measure of West African and even some Arabic culture. When more people join America and bring the beneficial elements of their own culture with them, this culture becomes part of American culture via assimilation. This is a good thing, even if it takes a while.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on May 29, 2018, 08:20:19 pm
Homosexuals can lay back and think of England, y'know, and these days could use a sperm bank... but more importantly, in the environment in which we evolved, homosexuality (or, rather, the tendency to produce homosexual children when a mother has many children) was a beneficial trait and thus selected for.

And anyway, evolution doesn't give a shit about your nationalism and ethnocentrism.

Please provide a source that backs up your claim that the tendency to produce homosexual children is an evolutionary trait.

It is true that homosexuals could use a sperm bank, but isn’t it better that the child is raised by both his mother and father?
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on May 29, 2018, 08:32:40 pm
Your fetish is the least annoying, and most normal, thing about you!

Also, gay people can and do have kids-all the time and plenty of straight people don't. It's an orientation, not a contraceptive!
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: dpareja on May 29, 2018, 08:34:24 pm
Scientists are looking into the "fraternal birth order" effect and it appears that it may have something to do with the immune system: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2156010-we-may-know-why-younger-brothers-are-more-likely-to-be-gay/

As for children being raised by a mother and father rather than a same-sex couple...

http://theconversation.com/factcheck-are-children-better-off-with-a-mother-and-father-than-with-same-sex-parents-82313
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on May 29, 2018, 08:46:15 pm
But in America the problem is not the population of Americans becoming larger, it is the population becoming smaller. There will not be enough Americans in the workforce and the Democrats and Rinos will use that as a justification for more open borders which would cause increase in crime, and American’s losing their jobs and adaquate wages as the immigrants will work for cheaper labor. With continued open borders, America will lose it’s culture as people from other cultures will displace the population of Americans and America would no longer be America.

America doesn't have a culture. At least not a unique culture that's distinctly "American", as you seem to imply. We're a nation of immigrants, and we've blended a lot of immigrant cultures together - French culture, German culture, English culture (a lot of those two), Italian culture, some Russian and Chinese culture, a dollop or two of Japanese and Thai and Vietnamese culture, a good measure of West African and even some Arabic culture. When more people join America and bring the beneficial elements of their own culture with them, this culture becomes part of American culture via assimilation. This is a good thing, even if it takes a while.

America has Anglo Saxon culture with it’s freedoms and practices based on the traditions of England. Back when immigration was more restricted with far less immigrants coming in, it was easier for immigrants from Europe, Japan etc to assimilate into American culture and learn the English language. However with open borders allowing immigrants from all countries to come to America, it causes so many immigrants from so many cultures including the barbaric culture of Islam, coming in that it is impossible to assimilate them. While I have my own criticisms of Trump, he has been doing a good job at protecting our country through his immigration restrictions.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on May 29, 2018, 08:53:30 pm
America does not have open borders, you have an entire federal agency dedicated to locking up and deporting migrants already in your country and another federal police force watching your airports which is internationally famous for its paranoia and zealotary to the point of black comedy. Which planet do you live on?
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on May 29, 2018, 09:07:21 pm
America does not have open borders, you have an entire federal agency dedicated to locking up and deporting migrants already in your country and another federal police force watching your airports which is internationally famous for its paranoia and zealotary to the point of black comedy. Which planet do you live on?

That is what I was saying. Trump has done a good job at securing the borders and deporting illegal immigrants.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Sigmaleph on May 29, 2018, 09:15:48 pm
Every natural trait and instinct has an evolutionary purpose. In evolution there are also disorders and mutations. Homosexuality is a disorder because it prevents an organism from reproducing.

I guess that's a no, then. Maybe you should notice how often you seem to be making statements you need to retract.

Also that's not what "disorder" means, but it's not like I'm surprised you don't know something.

(I could start listing sexually reproducing species where individual organisms explicitly take non-reproductive roles as part of the standard functioning of the species, but let's be honest, you're gonna say something uninformed and refuse to learn anything in response)

So instead here's a fun question, is the Christian norm of waiting until marriage to have sex a disorder? It also prevents organisms from reproducing.

Quote
I know that getting rid of fetishes is impossible, but I heard about people with fetishes who were still able to have children, indicating that they had both the fetish, and were able to have normal sex.

Well, that's a blatantly wrong assumption. Non-"normal" sex can also result in kids.

Quote
It seems like while getting rid of fetishes is impossible, but treating them so that you can have normal sex is. It is a major problem that I am so sexually attracted to a woman in jeans that I fail to be attracted to her naked body.

If you're not attracted to women, that's not because you're attracted to jeans. You can in fact be attracted to multiple different things simultaneously (I'm attracted to both men and women, for example).

Your problem is either you're not attracted to women at all (i.e. you're gay or ace), or you don't know how to identify sexual attraction outside your fetish. The first is perfectly ok and there's really not much you can do about it, so I'd suggest learning to accept it. If it's the second, well. You should probably look for more varied porn.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on May 29, 2018, 09:16:03 pm
Scientists are looking into the "fraternal birth order" effect and it appears that it may have something to do with the immune system: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2156010-we-may-know-why-younger-brothers-are-more-likely-to-be-gay/

As for children being raised by a mother and father rather than a same-sex couple...

http://theconversation.com/factcheck-are-children-better-off-with-a-mother-and-father-than-with-same-sex-parents-82313

Ok so the articles that the antibodies in the mother’s immune system may be what causes their son’s to be gay. However as I said, being gay in most cases does not prevent someone from being able to have a heterosexual marriage.

And using common sense, children are better off with a mother and father, because it gives them both a masculine and feminine influence on their upbringing. It is a biological fact that men are more muscular than women so a father would be needed to save a child in a dangerous situation such as when someone has to fight an upductor. And a mother is needed to breastfeed the babies, have maternal hormonal instincts when their children are young and are the best at comforting them when they get hurt.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on May 29, 2018, 09:28:46 pm
Every natural trait and instinct has an evolutionary purpose. In evolution there are also disorders and mutations. Homosexuality is a disorder because it prevents an organism from reproducing.

I guess that's a no, then. Maybe you should notice how often you seem to be making statements you need to retract.

Also that's not what "disorder" means, but it's not like I'm surprised you don't know something.

(I could start listing sexually reproducing species where individual organisms explicitly take non-reproductive roles as part of the standard functioning of the species, but let's be honest, you're gonna say something uninformed and refuse to learn anything in response)

So instead here's a fun question, is the Christian norm of waiting until marriage to have sex a disorder? It also prevents organisms from reproducing.

Quote
I know that getting rid of fetishes is impossible, but I heard about people with fetishes who were still able to have children, indicating that they had both the fetish, and were able to have normal sex.

Well, that's a blatantly wrong assumption. Non-"normal" sex can also result in kids.

Quote
It seems like while getting rid of fetishes is impossible, but treating them so that you can have normal sex is. It is a major problem that I am so sexually attracted to a woman in jeans that I fail to be attracted to her naked body.

If you're not attracted to women, that's not because you're attracted to jeans. You can in fact be attracted to multiple different things simultaneously (I'm attracted to both men and women, for example).

Your problem is either you're not attracted to women at all (i.e. you're gay or ace), or you don't know how to identify sexual attraction outside your fetish. The first is perfectly ok and there's really not much you can do about it, so I'd suggest learning to accept it. If it's the second, well. You should probably look for more varied porn.

Well ability to reproduce is an important trait that organisms naturally have. And please list the species that organisms have non reproductive roles?

And no, saving sex till marriage is not a disorder, because it forms the natural family unit with both a mother and father to raise the children.

And it is the second. I do not know how to sexually identify myself and masterbate outside of my fetish. And I do not watch porn videos as my Christian beliefs make me consider pornography immoral and exploitive of women. But in terms of looking up images, what would you consider to be varied?
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Sigmaleph on May 29, 2018, 09:49:55 pm

Well ability to reproduce is an important trait that organisms naturally have. And please list the species that organisms have non reproductive roles?

Ants, many bees and wasps, termites, some beetles, some snapping shrimp, some mole rats.

Quote
And no, saving sex till marriage is not a disorder, because it forms the natural family unit with both a mother and father to raise the children.

Fun facts: premarital celibacy is not necessary for marriage, marriage is not necessary for mother/father families, marriage does not guarantee families of any particular kinds. But nice of you to acknowledge you were wrong about non-reproductive behaviour being disordered.


Quote
And it is the second. I do not know how to sexually identify myself and masterbate outside of my fetish. And I do not watch porn videos as my Christian beliefs make me consider pornography immoral and exploitive of women. But in terms of looking up images, what would you consider to be varied?

Just go to any hentai site and look around, mate. No women were exploited for it and it's gonna cater to more tastes than you know exist.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on May 29, 2018, 10:00:34 pm

Well ability to reproduce is an important trait that organisms naturally have. And please list the species that organisms have non reproductive roles?

Ants, many bees and wasps, termites, some beetles, some snapping shrimp, some mole rats.

Quote
And no, saving sex till marriage is not a disorder, because it forms the natural family unit with both a mother and father to raise the children.

Fun facts: premarital celibacy is not necessary for marriage, marriage is not necessary for mother/father families, marriage does not guarantee families of any particular kinds. But nice of you to acknowledge you were wrong about non-reproductive behaviour being disordered.


Quote
And it is the second. I do not know how to sexually identify myself and masterbate outside of my fetish. And I do not watch porn videos as my Christian beliefs make me consider pornography immoral and exploitive of women. But in terms of looking up images, what would you consider to be varied?

Just go to any hentai site and look around, mate. No women were exploited for it and it's gonna cater to more tastes than you know exist.

1. Yes species that are not really closely related to humans on the evolutionary tree. Our closest relatives, Apes do not have non reproductive roles.

2. Um marriage is necessary for there to be a mother and father to raise their children together. Premarital celibacy, saves sex for it’s purpose which is procreation.

3. Ok I will try a hentai site.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on May 29, 2018, 10:34:21 pm
Well the Levis website isn't TECHNICALLY porn but we all know how YOU use it. Also "common sense" would be that a kid is with parents that love them. A kid with a mum and a dad where one is an abuser is not better off than a kid with two loving moms!
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Skybison on May 30, 2018, 02:07:58 am
Hypothetical question for you Jacob

Two gay men and two lesbians form a four way household, the lesbians are impregnated by the gay men via artificial insemination, but exclusively have sex with their same sex partner while raising the children together with two fathers and two mothers.

Is this immoral and if so why?
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Askold on May 30, 2018, 02:11:38 am
You do realize that there are perfectly good evolutionary reasons for homosexuality, right?

Examples?

They add to the workforce without reproducing.

What happens (I'd have to find a citation on this, I admit) is that women have a tendency to release more of a certain hormone during pregnancy as they have more sons, and there is a correlation between homosexual tendencies and exposure to that hormone, and this would have been selected for because of the above reason: homosexuals add to the workforce but do not contribute to population growth.

That is the problem. They do not contribute to population growth.

It's not a problem, it is a benefit. They will care for the other children in the pack and provide for the pack. Their genes get passed on as their siblings have kids (and since whatever causes homosexuality is already in our DNA they don't need to have kids of their own) but having a lower number of kids in the community means that it is more likely that some of the kids survive to reach maturity.

The idiotic thinking of "must have as many kids as possible" is counter-productive. It leads to starvation and death while having a sustainable amount of children will mean that not only will the group survive they'll also a have a chance to increase numbers. It might not be as quick increase but it will be more sustainable.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on May 30, 2018, 07:54:28 am
Well the Levis website isn't TECHNICALLY porn but we all know how YOU use it. Also "common sense" would be that a kid is with parents that love them. A kid with a mum and a dad where one is an abuser is not better off than a kid with two loving moms!

I agree with that, however my common sense provided reasons why a kid with a loving mom and dad is better off than a kid with two loving moms because it gives them both masculine and feminine influence. Without a dad, who will save them in times of danger? You need someone with muscular strength in those situations.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on May 30, 2018, 08:00:44 am
Hypothetical question for you Jacob

Two gay men and two lesbians form a four way household, the lesbians are impregnated by the gay men via artificial insemination, but exclusively have sex with their same sex partner while raising the children together with two fathers and two mothers.

Is this immoral and if so why?

It would be immoral because having sex with the same sex partner does not produce children, so they should not be having sex. You should have children only with a husband or wife so artificial insemination should only be done between a gay man married to a lesbian woman.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on May 30, 2018, 08:01:55 am
You do realize that there are perfectly good evolutionary reasons for homosexuality, right?

Examples?

They add to the workforce without reproducing.

What happens (I'd have to find a citation on this, I admit) is that women have a tendency to release more of a certain hormone during pregnancy as they have more sons, and there is a correlation between homosexual tendencies and exposure to that hormone, and this would have been selected for because of the above reason: homosexuals add to the workforce but do not contribute to population growth.

That is the problem. They do not contribute to population growth.

It's not a problem, it is a benefit. They will care for the other children in the pack and provide for the pack. Their genes get passed on as their siblings have kids (and since whatever causes homosexuality is already in our DNA they don't need to have kids of their own) but having a lower number of kids in the community means that it is more likely that some of the kids survive to reach maturity.

The idiotic thinking of "must have as many kids as possible" is counter-productive. It leads to starvation and death while having a sustainable amount of children will mean that not only will the group survive they'll also a have a chance to increase numbers. It might not be as quick increase but it will be more sustainable.

Good point, but since homosexuals do not produce children with sex, they should not be having homosexual sex.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on May 30, 2018, 09:22:56 am
Good point, but since homosexuals do not produce children with sex, they should not be having homosexual sex.
Why not? Not everyone wants to be a denim-fapping, self denying, "cut my bollocks off" ascetic!
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on May 30, 2018, 11:18:13 am
Good point, but since homosexuals do not produce children with sex, they should not be having homosexual sex.
Why not? Not everyone wants to be a denim-fapping, self denying, "cut my bollocks off" ascetic!

Because the biological evolutionary purpose of sex is reproduction so you either should have sex in marriage to reproduce, or you remain celibate.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Askold on May 30, 2018, 11:49:10 am
Good point, but since homosexuals do not produce children with sex, they should not be having homosexual sex.
Why not? Not everyone wants to be a denim-fapping, self denying, "cut my bollocks off" ascetic!

Because the biological evolutionary purpose of sex is reproduction so you either should have sex in marriage to reproduce, or you remain celibate.

You have several flaws in your theories but let me point out just few:

Sex has more evolutionary purposes than just reproduction. It is used for recreational purposes and for bonding with your partner(s) as well. It is well documented fact that humans are not solitary creatures and therefore sex with your partner(s) also serves and important function for most adults. ...Granted that asexuals exist and some people are antisocial so this does not apply to everyone or is less important for some but for the majority of humans sex is important for more than just acquiring children.

Demanding people to stop having sex for non-reproductive purposes makes about as much sense as demanding and end to all entertainment.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on May 30, 2018, 12:46:05 pm
Good point, but since homosexuals do not produce children with sex, they should not be having homosexual sex.
Why not? Not everyone wants to be a denim-fapping, self denying, "cut my bollocks off" ascetic!

Because the biological evolutionary purpose of sex is reproduction so you either should have sex in marriage to reproduce, or you remain celibate.

You have several flaws in your theories but let me point out just few:

Sex has more evolutionary purposes than just reproduction. It is used for recreational purposes and for bonding with your partner(s) as well. It is well documented fact that humans are not solitary creatures and therefore sex with your partner(s) also serves and important function for most adults. ...Granted that asexuals exist and some people are antisocial so this does not apply to everyone or is less important for some but for the majority of humans sex is important for more than just acquiring children.

Demanding people to stop having sex for non-reproductive purposes makes about as much sense as demanding and end to all entertainment.

You can bond with friends without having to have sex with them as well as family.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on May 30, 2018, 05:38:24 pm
Hey Jacob, what's the reproductive purpose in being attracted to denim?

When a man and a woman love each other very much do they go and knit one of these?

(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/ac/68/66/ac6866ea3c78a9db3458c771503f1e9d.jpg)

Please don't fap to that. If you do, don't tell us about it!
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Sigmaleph on May 30, 2018, 09:32:13 pm

Well ability to reproduce is an important trait that organisms naturally have. And please list the species that organisms have non reproductive roles?

Ants, many bees and wasps, termites, some beetles, some snapping shrimp, some mole rats.

Quote
And no, saving sex till marriage is not a disorder, because it forms the natural family unit with both a mother and father to raise the children.

Fun facts: premarital celibacy is not necessary for marriage, marriage is not necessary for mother/father families, marriage does not guarantee families of any particular kinds. But nice of you to acknowledge you were wrong about non-reproductive behaviour being disordered.


Quote
And it is the second. I do not know how to sexually identify myself and masterbate outside of my fetish. And I do not watch porn videos as my Christian beliefs make me consider pornography immoral and exploitive of women. But in terms of looking up images, what would you consider to be varied?

Just go to any hentai site and look around, mate. No women were exploited for it and it's gonna cater to more tastes than you know exist.

1. Yes species that are not really closely related to humans on the evolutionary tree. Our closest relatives, Apes do not have non reproductive roles.

2. Um marriage is necessary for there to be a mother and father to raise their children together. Premarital celibacy, saves sex for it’s purpose which is procreation.

3. Ok I will try a hentai site.

(I could start listing sexually reproducing species where individual organisms explicitly take non-reproductive roles as part of the standard functioning of the species, but let's be honest, you're gonna say something uninformed and refuse to learn anything in response)

Did I fucking call it or what
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Askold on May 31, 2018, 04:51:40 pm
I prefer the religious people who don't try to make up shit about biology or evolution and instead just admit that they think that most sex is "icky" or against their faith and those are the reasons why they oppose it. That is perfectly acceptable position to hold. It's not popular and enforcing it to people who disagree with the idea is not OK, but having that belief and only minding your own business is perfectly OK.

Your main problem is that you try to make up (or simply have grossly misunderstood) evolutionary biology and we are more than happy to point out that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on May 31, 2018, 05:02:01 pm
I prefer the religious people who don't try to make up shit about biology or evolution and instead just admit that they think that most sex is "icky" or against their faith and those are the reasons why they oppose it. That is perfectly acceptable position to hold. It's not popular and enforcing it to people who disagree with the idea is not OK, but having that belief and only minding your own business is perfectly OK.

Your main problem is that you try to make up (or simply have grossly misunderstood) evolutionary biology and we are more than happy to point out that you have no idea what you are talking about.

I did not make up shit, it is true that animals have sexual hormones primarily for breeding purposes. I debunked the claim that it is also for recreational or bonding purposes, because people can bond with their friends without having to have sex.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on May 31, 2018, 05:25:36 pm
Yeah, but you haven't given a reason why they shouldn't.

Aside from you finding naked butts icky!
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on May 31, 2018, 06:03:20 pm
Yeah, but you haven't given a reason why they shouldn't.

Aside from you finding naked butts icky!

Yes I did. I said that it is because they can’t produce children doing it which is what sexual hormones were evolved to do. Homosexuals in the past such as Michelangelo did better things in their lives.

Back in the good old days, there used to be conversion therapy, and there were documented cases of it being successful.

I think that to prevent homosexuals from falling into temptation to have homosexual sex, it should become law that conversion therapy is provided to those with homosexual tendencies that will be analyzed during doctor appointments, and if the conversion therapy won’t work, then castration surgery will be provided. It will be beneficial to homosexuals self esteem because they won’t have to suffer having sexual fantasies and crushes on heterosexuals of the same gender. They’ll feel better being asexual.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on May 31, 2018, 07:15:33 pm
And others already pointed out there are perfectly good non reproductive reasons for having sex. You just find it icky because you're weird.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on May 31, 2018, 07:44:08 pm
And others already pointed out there are perfectly good non reproductive reasobs for having sex. You just find it icky because you're weird.

And I debunked those reasons by saying that there are many other ways to bond than having sex.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Eiki-mun on May 31, 2018, 08:08:58 pm
And others already pointed out there are perfectly good non reproductive reasobs for having sex. You just find it icky because you're weird.

And I debunked those reasons by saying that there are many other ways to bond than having sex.

There are many other ways to travel other than driving an automobile. And automobiles have been known to kill tens of thousands of people - per year! Im sure you agree with me that we should ban automobiles outside of emergencies.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on May 31, 2018, 08:14:10 pm
And others already pointed out there are perfectly good non reproductive reasobs for having sex. You just find it icky because you're weird.

And I debunked those reasons by saying that there are many other ways to bond than having sex.

There are many other ways to travel other than driving an automobile. And automobiles have been known to kill tens of thousands of people - per year! Im sure you agree with me that we should ban automobiles outside of emergencies.

That is such an absurd analogy, because first of all, you need automobiles to travel locally the most efficiently. You can easily bond with someone without having sex.

Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on May 31, 2018, 08:31:13 pm
Why wouldn't you bond with someone sexually just for the fun of it? It's fun!
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on May 31, 2018, 08:36:45 pm
Why wouldn't you bond with someone sexually just for the fun of it? It's fun!

Because it defeats the purpose of sex.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on May 31, 2018, 08:41:13 pm
It's an evolved characteristic, not a product from Ikea. Feet were evolved for walking on but at a pinch they can be employed to use brake pedals.

It "there" for whatever people please!
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Askold on June 01, 2018, 12:53:24 am
I prefer the religious people who don't try to make up shit about biology or evolution and instead just admit that they think that most sex is "icky" or against their faith and those are the reasons why they oppose it. That is perfectly acceptable position to hold. It's not popular and enforcing it to people who disagree with the idea is not OK, but having that belief and only minding your own business is perfectly OK.

Your main problem is that you try to make up (or simply have grossly misunderstood) evolutionary biology and we are more than happy to point out that you have no idea what you are talking about.

I did not make up shit, it is true that animals have sexual hormones primarily for breeding purposes. I debunked the claim that it is also for recreational or bonding purposes, because people can bond with their friends without having to have sex.

a) Saying that pizza isn't food because you can eat food that isn't pizza is not a foolproof argument.

b) There are people who can live their entire life in celibacy but not everyone will enjoy it.

c) You still have no proof that recreational sex is somehow harmful rather than beneficial or at least harmless.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on June 01, 2018, 08:47:14 am
I prefer the religious people who don't try to make up shit about biology or evolution and instead just admit that they think that most sex is "icky" or against their faith and those are the reasons why they oppose it. That is perfectly acceptable position to hold. It's not popular and enforcing it to people who disagree with the idea is not OK, but having that belief and only minding your own business is perfectly OK.

Your main problem is that you try to make up (or simply have grossly misunderstood) evolutionary biology and we are more than happy to point out that you have no idea what you are talking about.

I did not make up shit, it is true that animals have sexual hormones primarily for breeding purposes. I debunked the claim that it is also for recreational or bonding purposes, because people can bond with their friends without having to have sex.

a) Saying that pizza isn't food because you can eat food that isn't pizza is not a foolproof argument.

b) There are people who can live their entire life in celibacy but not everyone will enjoy it.

c) You still have no proof that recreational sex is somehow harmful rather than beneficial or at least harmless.

You still have no proof that there are evolutionary purposes to sex other than reproduction. Sex is better when there is a meaning and purpose to it. And people can enjoy their lives in celibacy by masterbating.

But in an earlier comment, I gave a proposal on what should be done to relieve homosexuals from the temptation of having sex and explained why it will be psycologically beneficial to them.


I think that to prevent homosexuals from falling into temptation to have homosexual sex, it should become law that conversion therapy is provided to those with homosexual tendencies that will be analyzed during doctor appointments, and if the conversion therapy won’t work, then castration surgery will be provided. It will be beneficial to homosexuals self esteem because they won’t have to suffer having sexual fantasies and crushes on heterosexuals of the same gender. They’ll feel better being asexual.

Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on June 01, 2018, 09:42:30 am
You still have no proof that there are evolutionary purposes to sex other than reproduction.

Stop, right there. See this is where you're confused. Evolution doesn't have a purpose, it just is. Traits that happen to aid survival, or at least not kill you stay around including plenty that aren't really useful at all are just....there. There are lots of useless holdovers from evolution in our biology that are with us. Vestigiality is old news in biology and well established.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on June 01, 2018, 10:27:32 am
You still have no proof that there are evolutionary purposes to sex other than reproduction.

Stop, right there. See this is where you're confused. Evolution doesn't have a purpose, it just is. Traits that happen to aid survival, or at least not kill you stay around including plenty that aren't really useful at all are just....there. There are lots of useless holdovers from evolution in our biology that are with us. Vestigiality is old news in biology and well established.

Um yes evolution does have a purpose. It’s purpose is to give species traits that aid in survival AND reproduction. Yes there are useless holdovers such as the appendix, but our sex drive is not a useless holdover, because without it, our species would go extinct.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on June 01, 2018, 08:40:10 pm

Um yes evolution does have a purpose. It’s purpose is to give species traits that aid in survival AND reproduction. Yes there are useless holdovers such as the appendix, but our sex drive is not a useless holdover, because without it, our species would go extinct.

Nope, it doesn't. Evolution is a natural phenomenon. It's like a rock falling off a mountain from it's own weight because of gravity. My phone has a purpose, it was built to take calls and argue with idiot Christians in America. Evolution is not like that, evolution happened because of enough happy accidents there were conditions that allowed it to happen. You're getting evolution mixed up with "intelligent design" which is bunk. Seeing a purpose in evolution is like seeing faces in the clouds, you can if you squint hard enough but that's just a holdover from a pattern-forming instinct which in the instance of staring at clouds to see faces is utterly useless.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Jacob Harrison on June 01, 2018, 09:20:14 pm

Um yes evolution does have a purpose. It’s purpose is to give species traits that aid in survival AND reproduction. Yes there are useless holdovers such as the appendix, but our sex drive is not a useless holdover, because without it, our species would go extinct.

Nope, it doesn't. Evolution is a natural phenomenon. It's like a rock falling off a mountain from it's own weight because of gravity. My phone has a purpose, it was built to take calls and argue with idiot Christians in America. Evolution is not like that, evolution happened because of enough happy accidents there were conditions that allowed it to happen. You're getting evolution mixed up with "intelligent design" which is bunk. Seeing a purpose in evolution is like seeing faces in the clouds, you can if you squint hard enough but that's just a holdover from a pattern-forming instinct which in the instance of staring at clouds to see faces is utterly useless.

I guess we have different definitions of purpose. You don’t understand the difference between natural purpose and artificial purpose. Since the sex drive of animals were evolved for reproductive purposes, it is therefore the natural purpose of evolution.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on June 01, 2018, 09:24:46 pm
Yeah, a natural purpose is descriptive not prescriptive. Feet for walking, or dancing or driving cars. A "descriptive purpose" doesn't exclude other ones.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Sigmaleph on June 01, 2018, 11:19:26 pm
Back in the good old days, there used to be conversion therapy, and there were documented cases of it being successful.

I think that to prevent homosexuals from falling into temptation to have homosexual sex, it should become law that conversion therapy is provided to those with homosexual tendencies that will be analyzed during doctor appointments, and if the conversion therapy won’t work, then castration surgery will be provided. It will be beneficial to homosexuals self esteem because they won’t have to suffer having sexual fantasies and crushes on heterosexuals of the same gender. They’ll feel better being asexual.

Aaaand there's where you crossed the line and annoyed me more than you amused me. Bye. You can come back in a week.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on June 02, 2018, 12:28:25 am
Back in the good old days, there used to be conversion therapy, and there were documented cases of it being successful.

I think that to prevent homosexuals from falling into temptation to have homosexual sex, it should become law that conversion therapy is provided to those with homosexual tendencies that will be analyzed during doctor appointments, and if the conversion therapy won’t work, then castration surgery will be provided. It will be beneficial to homosexuals self esteem because they won’t have to suffer having sexual fantasies and crushes on heterosexuals of the same gender. They’ll feel better being asexual.

Aaaand there's where you crossed the line and annoyed me more than you amused me. Bye. You can come back in a week.
Muh chew toy!!!

Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: dpareja on June 02, 2018, 11:11:39 am
Back in the good old days, there used to be conversion therapy, and there were documented cases of it being successful.

I think that to prevent homosexuals from falling into temptation to have homosexual sex, it should become law that conversion therapy is provided to those with homosexual tendencies that will be analyzed during doctor appointments, and if the conversion therapy won’t work, then castration surgery will be provided. It will be beneficial to homosexuals self esteem because they won’t have to suffer having sexual fantasies and crushes on heterosexuals of the same gender. They’ll feel better being asexual.

Aaaand there's where you crossed the line and annoyed me more than you amused me. Bye. You can come back in a week.
Muh chew toy!!!

There's chew toys, and there's people who insist conversion therapy works. Fuck the latter.
Title: Re: What the Bible says about homosexuality
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on June 02, 2018, 07:34:11 pm
Fair call.