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Community => Politics and Government => Topic started by: Askold on June 11, 2017, 12:42:16 pm

Title: Finns choose a new leader
Post by: Askold on June 11, 2017, 12:42:16 pm
Ok, ok, ok...

So in the last few days the Finns (formerly True Finns) a populist right-wing party and one of the three parties in the Finnish government, have elected new leadership for their party.


A short recap for those not aware of minor details in Finnish politics:
(click to show/hide)

In a not so surprising move they elected Jussi Halla-Aho aka "The master" aka "Race doctor" aka "the guy who fantasises about shooting gay men in the head and has publicly spoken how he wishes that immigrants rape the wife of another politician that he disagreed with." ...And the next three highest ranks went to his discples as well. Two of who have publicly said that they do not believe in evolution. ...Though one of them has confused evolution with the big bang theory. ...At least I think because there is a quote about him saying how he doesn't really get evolution because it has something to do with "someone blowing up a match in space or something."

Also, the party meeting has been a farce in other ways as well. They were supposed to vote about changing the rules of the party (because currently they have no way of Kicking out Soini from his position as a minister of foreign affairs) but they were unable to do this. Mainly because the people present in the meeting had lost their voting tickets. And they couldn't vote by raising hands because some of the people present did not have the right to vote (presumably people like reporters and others who weren't members of the party) and after several different attempts at organizing the vote the people present agreed that a digital vote that would be held later is the best way to handle the matter.

...And then Halla-Aho said that instead they will have the party leadership decide changing the rules and everyone agreed to it. (Not sure if that's allowed in their rules.)

And one of the other parties in the government has already had several of their members come out and say that the government should be disbanded because they refuse to work with Finns now that Soini and his gang is in charge.


One of the major parties in Finland goes three more steps towards nationalism by changing the party leadership and there is an imminent political crisis in the government as a result.

Couple final notes:

a) Finns can now blackmail the other parties by asking more and more favours. Because there is no way in hell that the "we are trying to emulate GOP in USA" changes that the current government is trying to push trough would succeed with any other party and unless they do what May did and hope that a unscheduled early election gives them more votes the Finns are their only hope.

b) Remember that bit about a foundation having control of the party money? It still does. And the leaders of the foundation include Soini and few more of his cronies. The very people who lost their positions in the party and whom the new elite have already publicly insulted and mocked. Legally they can do a repeat of the end of SMP and decide that they foundation withdraws all the funding and uses it to form a new party. (Or gives the money to a different existing party. I am secretly hoping that Soini does the biggest "FUCK YOU" that he can think of and finances the Pirate party or the Greens or something.
Title: Re: Finns choose a new leader
Post by: SCarpelan on June 11, 2017, 02:09:45 pm
Halla-aho would get along fine with Steve Bannon if he could tolerate Bannon's alcohol use. To describe how humane a person he is I present a blog post he wrote (http://www.halla-aho.com/scripta/ihmisarvosta.html):

The only measurable and thus inarguably existing value of a human being is the instrumental value of an individual. Individuals can be put in a value hierarchy according to how much making their abilities or know-how unavailable to the community would harm the community. A farmer, a rancher and a construction engineer are thus more valuable than others because the community would starve and freeze without them. On the other hand, they would survive even if all the other know-how would be removed. A weapon using individual is the second most valuable because he protects the food storage from beasts and enemies and prevents the members of the community from following their most primitive instincts and destroying each other.

Although one must admit that behavioral sciences might make us less eager to kill each other. On the other hand, waging wars increases in-group cohesion and almost always leads into technological breakthroughs.

Until someone convinces me that everyone is equal this leads me to believe that difference is inequality and everyone is inequal. Unlike egalitarists imagine inequality will not lead into throwing the less valuable ones to the gas chamber unless there is other good reason for it. I think I am more valuable than a mouse carcass on a forest path but I will not still rip the carcass into pieces. I think the world is a nicer place if there is art (I am not so sure about religions and a parliament) and linguistics. But if the boat starts leaking I think it is obvious that the first to be thrown overboard is the least valuable cargo, i.e. artists and linguists.

I translated the term "ihmisarvo" literally as the value (or worth) of a human being since the corresponding legal term in English language is human dignity and it doesn't really match the point he is making.

Edit 3: Halla-aho was interviewed by YLE. (https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-9663454)
- I do not take back what I have said. I have written different things in different situations in life, I was not able to foresee my political future. When circumstances change, style must change accordingly, Halla-aho says.
So, how about... Oh.
Halla-aho thinks everyone has equal human value.
Fuck you.


Behold, the new first and second vice chairmen of the party:


"It just is so that humans are not animals and have never been animals. It is an utterly impossible theory that animals or an animal could become a human given enough time."

"No, I don't. [believe in evolution] How does it go, by the way? Is it something that comes... someone has made some match bomb in space?"

Edit 2:

Holy shit. It seems the government is going to a panic mode. (http://www.ts.fi/uutiset/kotimaa/3545531/Analyysi+Hallituksen+eronpyynto+alkaa+nayttaa+todennakoisimmalta+vaihtoehdolta++mita+seuraavaksi) The Prime Minister cancelled his participation in the meeting taking place in the President's official summer residence Kultaranta. The people present include the EU High Representative of Foreign Affairs and Security Policy Federica Mogherini and NATO Deputy Secretary General Rose Gottemoeller so this is kind of a big deal. He is instead meeting the party insiders about the options of forming a new government without the Finns. He has also discussed this with the representatives of other parties and according to the sources of the piece in TS the preliminary options are:

1. Swedish Folk Party and Christian Democrats replace The Finns and two or three Finns members defect their party to join one of the new coalition parties. These members have already discussed their potential defection with their colleagues. SFP is very liberal but also economically very right wing while the Christian Democrats are religious fundies but with more social compassion than The Finns crowd.

2. Social Democratic Party or maybe even the Green Party replaces the Finns. The only definitely excluded party is The Left Alliance since their chairwoman Li Anderson demanded a new parliamentary election when visiting Kultaranta. For now, SDP and Greens are refusing but they will be contacted again unless the Center and National Coalition parties come to an unexpected agreement with Halla-aho.

The government is in serious problems with their health care and social services reform since it seems to be badly stuck in the Parliament's Constitutional Committee. This has been a central issue for the government and its fate is already causing political pressure. The new direction of The Finns is probably enough to cause the card house to collapse.

President Niinistö is saying that the first thing would be for the government to present their resignation to him and then - probably on Tuesday - the official negotiations for a new coalition would start. If these negotiations fail then the only option left would be a new parliamentary election.

Unless the direction the political winds are blowing changes dramatically the new elections would be catastrophic for The Finns. The National Coalition is leading in the polls right now so there would probably not be a huge leap to the left overall but the result couldn't be worse than the complete right wing dominance we have right now in the government.

Title: Re: Finns choose a new leader
Post by: Askold on June 12, 2017, 07:52:39 am
The  Center party is hoing to suffer if new elections are held, too many failures too many policies that hurt their voters. Finns are going to be demolished.  ...The National Coalition on the other hand could get a net gain. The things that the government has done are all what their voters want and benefit from. And they get a moral victory for not working with the new leadership of the Finns.
Title: Re: Finns choose a new leader
Post by: SCarpelan on June 12, 2017, 09:06:32 am
Yeah, an election would probably mean that Petteri Orpo of the National Coalition would be the new Prime Minister. The way the Center Party support is falling means that the voters are blaming mainly them for the failures of the current government.

If there was a new election campaign a smart approach by the Social Democrats could give them a fighting chance against the National Coalition. I just don't have too much faith in their ability to take advantage of the situation but the Green Party might have a huge break through since their success in the municipal elections is still fresh and voters like to jump into a winning party's wagon. If SDP screws up their campaigning the Greens could even overtake them in popularity but I don't think they will be able to pose a challenge to National Coalition.

Whatever the case, with the way The Finns have made themselves a pariah and how the Center Party is falling from a cliff the negotiations for a new government after the elections would be very interesting. If the Center Party was able to stop the bleeding and keep enough seats that the National Coalition would be able to take them along into the new government coalition nothing much would change. On the other hand, if NCP had to form a new government with Social Democrats and/or Green Party things could get interesting - it's even possible that NCP would fail to form a coalition of any kind even as the largest party. This might mean that the Greens and Social Democrats would be able to form the basis for a new, center-left coalition government.

Btw, here is an English article of the situation for anyone interested: https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/finnish_govt_implodes_centre_ncp_say_deal_off_with_finns_party/9664904
Title: Re: Finns choose a new leader
Post by: Askold on June 12, 2017, 09:35:58 am
Halla-Aho is busy making himself look like a martyr because the mean, mean big kids refuse to play with him even though he just wants to be a good boy... Meanwhile in reality he is the number 1 person most glad that the party under his leadership does not have to be in the government. It's much easier to complain about things and vote "nay" on everything while being in the opposition instead of having to actually think of solutions to problems and have responsibilities.

Social Democrat Party has announced that they will not join the government until we have new elections.

Christian Democrats could end up in the government if Sipilä and Orpo attempt to make a new one without having elections. And that would lead to all kinds of fun stuff. CD were one of the most vocal opponents of marriage equality and they could use that to deal a heavy blow to the government. "We agree to join and will let you demolish our country as long as you outlaw gay marriage again. How about that?"

Just think about it... If Sipilä and Orpo (and whichever other parties they get to join in because only SDP or Finns would have been big enough party to make a government with just three parties) agree to it CD gets a massive victory and the other parties are the ones that suffer blowback from angry voters. And if they refuse, they will lose their final chance of getting a government.

I doubt things will actually go that way but it would be amusing.
Title: Re: Finns choose a new leader
Post by: SCarpelan on June 12, 2017, 10:07:26 am
The Finns had a similar attitude towards the gender neutral marriage; the then-chairman Soini had a huge hissy fit when a couple of their representatives voted against the party line and supported the law since as a fundie Catholic it was a core issue for him. I was first thinking that the Christian Democrats could do a similar compromise than The Finns did and have a useless vote that would fail to kill the law. Then I remembered that the whole point about why they insisted a last moment vote to repeal the law in March was that the constitution prevents trying to repeal the law after has been put into effect. In other words, CDP has no legal basis to use this issue as a leverage the way The Finns did.

On the other hand, the Christian Democrats oppose the government's health care and social services reform since they seem to actually care about the poor and the sick (as long as they aren't LGBT people who want their human rights respected). It will be interesting to see if they are willing to compromise on this issue.
Title: Re: Finns choose a new leader
Post by: Askold on June 12, 2017, 10:22:42 am
Some of the Finns are leaving the party angry at the take over and refusing to work with the new leadership (note, they didn't mind these people bringing in votes but now that the racists are in charge they are suddenly disgusted at their behaviour. ...Or maybe they are just leaving the sinking ship.)

Meanwhile, Terhi Kiemunki (a city level politician who was way too racist and dumb enough to be openly racist that Soini kicked her out of the party. Among other things she called the cops to investigate herself and was surprised when they did and found her guilty of crimes... She had tried to prove that racist threats on Facebook are perfectly ok and protected by the freedom of speech but instead proved that even if you are a politician you may violate hate speech laws with what you say on the ne.) is demanding to be allowed back in now that the new party leadership is more in line with her way of thinking.
Title: Re: Finns choose a new leader
Post by: SCarpelan on June 12, 2017, 01:15:59 pm
The Swedish Folk Party is prepared to negotiate about joining the government but only if the government is prepared to fix their health care reform. I expect the Christian Democrats will have similar conditions but they will discuss among themselves before taking a stand on this. This sounds simple but based on how the chairwoman of SFP has criticized the reform previously her party's conditions might be a bitter pill for the Center Party to swallow: among other things, she dislikes transferring power away from the municipalities to the new county level. Forming these counties is an important power play for Center Party since the reform is built so that they would dominate the county administrations. Since they would lose the Prime Minister's seat in a new elections they might have no other choice than to swallow this pill.

Oh, and the Green Party is also demanding new elections.

*Stuffs more popcorn to his mouth*

Edit: The comedian Jukka Lindström puts it nicely: (https://twitter.com/jukkalindstrom/status/874272940514267136) "Daddy Juha [Prime Minister Sipilä], can we get as much candy as we want from the store? - siblings CD and SFP"
Title: Re: Finns choose a new leader
Post by: Askold on June 12, 2017, 01:41:33 pm
Turns out that privatizing the healthcare system is unconstitutional so it is possible that Finns getting kicked out from the government happened because there was nothing to gain by keeping them in so might as well try to gain some PR points by opposing racism.

EDIT: And noe the NCP is trying to woo Christian Democrats by offering to do something about gay marriage... Specifically they are saying that although their stance on the matter is clear thry are willing to negotiate.

Aside from being a dick move and sign that they don't really care about LGBT people except as a way to get pr points it is also impossible to get rid of the law. Once given rights cannot be removed from a group of people  (unless you alter our constitution AND leave EU.)
Title: Re: Finns choose a new leader
Post by: Askold on June 13, 2017, 06:24:30 am
...And the Finns just lost 20 parliament members who refused to work with the new leadership.  I knew that they might break up but to do it in just three (3) days is a surprise.

Title: Re: Finns choose a new leader
Post by: SCarpelan on June 13, 2017, 06:44:29 am
Wow... The people leaving include all the Finns party ministers and they were more than half of the current Finns party representatives - only 17 representatives will stay in the party. The people leaving are going to form their own parliamentary group and they said they are willing to participate in a new government. They are a large enough group that they could form a new government with the Center Party and National Coalition without the need to negotiate with the smaller parties (they would have 106 parliamentary seats of the total 200 according to the numbers in the Parliament's website). Since the people leaving are the old establishment of the Finns the new government wouldn't need to make any further compromises.

Fuck. I'm pretty sure that the National Coalition and Center Party leaderships are celebrating right now.

Edit: I realized that 106 is probably not a safe enough majority so they might take Christian Democrats or the Swedish Folk Party as the fourth member in the new/old coalition. CDP's and SFP's negotiation leverage just disappeared almost completely, though, so there won't be any large changes in the government direction.

Edit 2: and now there are 22 defectors from the Finns. One of them didn't join the new group, though, so it has 21 members. The one who is going her own way is the only Finns representative who refused to follow her party in opposing the gender neutral marriage law when it was first accepted a couple of years ago. The members of the new group, called New Option, will probably start a new party before the next parliamentary elections.

Edit 3: The Prime Minister announced that he will not present the government's resignation after all. From the government's point of view everything goes on as if nothing happened, some ministers just have a different party affiliation but the names will be the same.

Fuck. FUCK.
Title: Re: Finns choose a new leader
Post by: Askold on June 13, 2017, 09:39:29 am
Basically the results boil down to this:

a) The government lost a few seats in the parliament and theoretically it is easier to vote them down if any of the member party representatives are unhappy with decisions.

b) The Finns got a massive fuck you in threefold. Their party is lead by racists, the people who want their party to be lead by racists aren't getting their votes represented because majority of the representatives rebelled and there is no way to know what happens to the party now.

c) The government is going to continue doing what they were going to do without anyone complaining because they don't dare to rock the boat anymore.

d) Even more than looking like incompetent Halla-Aho and his cronies seem like victims of a betrayal and therefore whatever mess they now make is not seen as the fault of the deserters, not the Finns.

EDIT: Further escalation as a military coup sees the parliament taken over by a bunch of unmotivated and lazy conscripts who are just following orders because it's easier than doing your own thinking.

...Well, actually they are just testing the voting system after routine maintenance, because bringing 200 conscpripts in for the test is cheaper than hiring 200 temp workers for a job that only takes an hour or two.
Title: Re: Finns choose a new leader
Post by: SCarpelan on June 13, 2017, 08:03:39 pm
... and the whole thing was an emergency plan the government had prepared in case Halla-aho wins the party election since National Coalition refused to even consider co-operation with him. Turun Sanomat had a piece almost two weeks ago (http://www.ts.fi/uutiset/kotimaa/3534944/Hallituksessa+suunnitelma+Hallaahon+voiton+varalle+soinilaiset+muodostaisivat+oman+eduskuntaryhman) discussing this including an accurate prediction of how many Finns would resign and form a new group. Apparently they have quite good sources.
Title: Re: Finns choose a new leader
Post by: Askold on June 14, 2017, 01:14:57 am
Note that:

a) The defectors from Finns include people like Simon Elo and Sampo Terho who are no less racist than Halla-Aho and the biggest difference seems to be that unlike the new boss they have not been convicted of hate speech. So this divide wasn't even done on the "People who only care about nationalism and closing the borders" and "the old gang that pretends to care about the common folk but does the opposite."

b) That last line was not a joke. Whatever votes the Finns got apart from racism (and opposing gay marriage) was from their years of campaigning about opposing the fat cats and basically being a "workers party, but no socialism" but during the time that they've been in the government they have done exactly nothing like that and have happily voted to demolish our welfare and health systems and punishing the unemployed.